SubMaximus -- A Large Front-Loaded Horn for UXL18 and Stereo Integrity HT 18" - Page 14 - AVS Forum
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post #391 of 485 Old 06-12-2014, 02:32 PM
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Talking






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"Too much is almost enough. Anything in life worth doing is worth overdoing. Moderation is for cowards."

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post #392 of 485 Old 06-12-2014, 02:32 PM
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Thumbs up not as dead as i may look

i'm still struggling with the calibration failure loop I seem to be unable to break but there's hope
kevings is paying a visit tomorrow and he's the guy who got me straightened out when I first started testing outside so


if that problem gets solved, and it will,
the next issue will be the new and almost unusable limits on uploading data and from the list, it looks like REW data files aren't on the allowed list so I have to ask WT?


workarounds, critiques PM's welcomed

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post #393 of 485 Old 06-12-2014, 02:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mfusick View Post
Lol

Love the pic
mfusik,

Are you not entertained? Is this SUBMAXIMUS, not why you are here!!!?



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post #394 of 485 Old 06-12-2014, 02:45 PM
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Someone has watched Gladiator...a lot!


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post #395 of 485 Old 06-12-2014, 02:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kevings View Post
mfusik,

Are you not entertained? Is this SUBMAXIMUS, not why you are here!!!?

SUBMaximus: My name is SubMaximus Decimus Meridius, commander of the Armies of BASS, General of the 17-100hz Regions and loyal servant to the TRUE emperor, Horn loaded Aurelius. Father to a sealed son, husband to a full ported wife. And I will have my vengeance, in this life or the next.
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post #396 of 485 Old 06-12-2014, 02:57 PM
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Ok...MORE than one of you have watched this movie...a lot.


although, mfusick...that was pretty slick.
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post #397 of 485 Old 06-12-2014, 02:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mfusick View Post
SUBMaximus: My name is SubMaximus Decimus Meridius, commander of the Armies of BASS, General of the 17-100hz Regions and loyal servant to the TRUE emperor, Horn loaded Aurelius. Father to a sealed son, husband to a full ported wife. And I will have my vengeance, in this life or the next.
haha! well done!

ps- at this very moment in time, no doubt that the planets are aligning, and the very epicenter of movie, bass, and hometheater geekness, is converging with laser precision, upon this very thread.


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post #398 of 485 Old 06-12-2014, 08:13 PM
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Originally Posted by blah450 View Post
Ok...MORE than one of you have watched this movie...a lot.


although, mfusick...that was pretty slick.


How can you claim to be a home theater enthusiast if you've never seen that movie. It was a reference demo in the early 2000's.

" The general who became a slave. The slave who became a gladiator. The gladiator who defied an emperor. Striking story! But now, the people want to know how the story ends. Only a famous death will do. And what could be more glorious than to challenge the Emperor himself in the great arena?"

"At my signal, unleash hell."

Great movie.

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post #399 of 485 Old 06-12-2014, 09:50 PM
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Back on topic,

If I was looking to build a horn for outdoor parties and I didn't care about going super low (think 25hz is enough) and I didn't care about size - how loud could I get for $400 in drivers (multiple drivers is ok)
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post #400 of 485 Old 06-13-2014, 06:39 AM
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I had two lilmike f-20's for a while and they were pretty beastly for the cost. I literally had more $$ in plywood than electronics! Great horn and plays with authority down to 20hz outdoors.

One of these would obviously get the job done as well

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post #401 of 485 Old 06-13-2014, 09:29 AM
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Probably not even worth trying to design my own or look elsewhere you are suggesting ? Is cheap drivers work reasonably well in those? I have plenty of ply... I build a dance floor recently for a one time use because renting one was too much $$$- The wood is leftover It's stained and polyurethane on one side though.. I can make it work. PL premium should bond to that right ?

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post #402 of 485 Old 06-13-2014, 10:35 AM
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I would likely sand it down where you plan on gluing but should work just fine. The dayton 15" is what can be used in there and is quite inexpensive.

(European models do not accept banana plugs.)

 

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post #403 of 485 Old 06-13-2014, 10:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by beastaudio View Post
I would likely sand it down where you plan on gluing but should work just fine. The dayton 15" is what can be used in there and is quite inexpensive.
I would scuff it up yeah.. but the wood is already sanded and coated (it was an outdoor DIY dance floor for a wedding)

I don't think normal tightbond would work well, but PL premium should bond to polyurethane. It bonds to basically anything, and god himself can't break it's bond.

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post #404 of 485 Old 06-13-2014, 11:31 AM
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I have way too many articles of clothing with nice pl streaks on them....Great stuff but good lord it is not fun to remove from incidental contact areas.

(European models do not accept banana plugs.)

 

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post #405 of 485 Old 06-13-2014, 12:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by beastaudio View Post
I have way too many articles of clothing with nice pl streaks on them....Great stuff but good lord it is not fun to remove from incidental contact areas.
Or you hands.






Even after scrubbing hours in shower and wrinkled fingers... the skin will fail before the bond does




I fixed the pictures



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"Too much is almost enough. Anything in life worth doing is worth overdoing. Moderation is for cowards."

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post #406 of 485 Old 06-13-2014, 12:59 PM
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Nitrile gloves are a must what thickness is the ply you are planning on using? Oh and your pics didn't show up for some reason

(European models do not accept banana plugs.)

 

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post #407 of 485 Old 06-13-2014, 01:09 PM
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Nitrile gloves are a must what thickness is the ply you are planning on using? Oh and your pics didn't show up for some reason
3/4" standard plywood. I forgot exactly what it was. The home depot stuff.

I actually have no problem buying a couple sheets of MDF if I needed to do it. I'd spend a few hundred bucks as an experiment and hobby project, but I can't sink a ton of cash into it. I don't have the funds, and I don't have a specific need to justify it. This is more for fun and learning than it would be for a need for another sub.

I fixed the pictures


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post #408 of 485 Old 06-13-2014, 05:27 PM
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Nice! Haha. Yep with the f-20 you are looking at a less than $200 driver, 2-3 sheets of ply (iirc) and some incredible directions including the cutsheet and stout directives from lil mike in the first post of that thread. It looks daunting at first but it was my first build in the ht realm and it was really a cinch.

This submaximus you would be looking at a similar priced driver in the si 18ht and probably the same amount of wood, but not yet is there as good of a walk through of the build, but you are likely to get a substantial amount more of output. another option is bill fitz's tht.
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post #409 of 485 Old 06-13-2014, 06:14 PM
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MAX is modeled with an Si 18 , ask john about that, but the UXL 18 is much more of a beast
I used the better part of 5 sheets, also
the 1 x 3 oak pieces for the access panel attachment and a 1 x 10 x 6' poplar board to make access panel.

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post #410 of 485 Old 06-14-2014, 09:11 AM
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Does it matter what ply I use ?

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post #411 of 485 Old 06-14-2014, 10:20 AM
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Stopped by Will's ( asarose ) house for a bit yesterday....

We started by first calibrated his spl readings in rew and making sure that his mic ( the dayton behringer model ( that kind of looks like the umik-1 ) had the proper mic cal file being utilized.

We then started with a raw response graph of the sub, no eq / filters applied:


We then added a quick filter to try and bring the peak down a bit. it ended up helping 30-40hz range a bit to.


subs plus mains:


subs plus mains, some peq applied:


Unfortunately, I had something else to take care of on the same day i visited Will, so i couldn't stay there for much longer than an hour or so. I was pretty happy though with what we were able to improve in the hour though. the last graph shows a response of about +/-5db from 20-80. That null around 85hz is irritating though, but im not even 100% sure we could hear it.

Im hoping to stop over again soon and keep smoothing the response. In the meantime, Im sure will would appreciate it if anyone wants to look at the graphs and offer any advice / thoughts.

We did get a chance to pop in the hulk before I had to leave. We watched the school yard battle. The sub is absolutely devastating. I dont know if it was because i was seated on the section of the sofa, just to the left of the sub, or because of the subs shear output, but it produced the most tactile bass i have ever felt. I thought I was hearing the sub plus feeling bass shakers, but i wasn't ( after the scene I found out that the shakers weren't even plugged in, as they were sitting on shelf ).

It was just BEAUTIFULLY DEEP, CRAZY, EFFORTLESS, VIOLENT LFE. If your an AVS member and you are anywhere near Garden Grove CA, I would suggest you send Will a pm, and see if you can give it a listen...its simply awesome.
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post #412 of 485 Old 06-14-2014, 12:15 PM
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Thumbs up The bones of the Beast . .

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mfusick View Post
Does it matter what ply I use ?

As I walked out of home depot looking at the $250 or so receipt it occurred to me that this is what it must be like to have a glimpse at the edge into the abyss into insanity.
said F--- it
and jumped


the pictures show the type of plywood . . . no boats fills, no surface splits, hardly any visible edge voids (I checked EACH edge)


knowing I was not going to be able to maintain an oak or birch skinned product to get an even reasonable "cabinet" finish, it let me focus on the necessity of paying attention to the very specifically calculated demands of the design.. after all, this had become an abandoned orphan design and , me, being occasionally the contrarian thought, as there will be some who will always say WHY ! and No Way , there's lazy guys like me , who for ,perhaps, not really knowing any better, say WHY NOT, it'll be easy and fun. the lack of a "planned assembly" was never an obstacle: visualize and re-visualize then check and recheck dimensions and clamping and bracing, which screws go where to avoid "too close", and then just kick it. This was going to be a zero defects success.


attitude is everything

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post #413 of 485 Old 06-14-2014, 05:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kevings View Post
Stopped by Will's ( asarose ) house for a bit yesterday....

We started by first calibrated his spl readings in rew and making sure that his mic ( the dayton behringer model ( that kind of looks like the umik-1 ) had the proper mic cal file being utilized.

We then started with a raw response graph of the sub, no eq / filters applied:


We then added a quick filter to try and bring the peak down a bit. it ended up helping 30-40hz range a bit to.


subs plus mains:


subs plus mains, some peq applied:


Unfortunately, I had something else to take care of on the same day i visited Will, so i couldn't stay there for much longer than an hour or so. I was pretty happy though with what we were able to improve in the hour though. the last graph shows a response of about +/-5db from 20-80. That null around 85hz is irritating though, but im not even 100% sure we could hear it.

Im hoping to stop over again soon and keep smoothing the response. In the meantime, Im sure will would appreciate it if anyone wants to look at the graphs and offer any advice / thoughts.

We did get a chance to pop in the hulk before I had to leave. We watched the school yard battle. The sub is absolutely devastating. I dont know if it was because i was seated on the section of the sofa, just to the left of the sub, or because of the subs shear output, but it produced the most tactile bass i have ever felt. I thought I was hearing the sub plus feeling bass shakers, but i wasn't ( after the scene I found out that the shakers weren't even plugged in, as they were sitting on shelf ).

It was just BEAUTIFULLY DEEP, CRAZY, EFFORTLESS, VIOLENT LFE. If your an AVS member and you are anywhere near Garden Grove CA, I would suggest you send Will a pm, and see if you can give it a listen...its simply awesome.

Wow, that FR looks pretty good, just peaks to cut aside from the null at 85.....wonder if the null can be remedied by crossing the mains/subs a little lower? Will, what frequency are you crossing the speakers over from the subs? I'd love to hear that beast....I live in Ontario, Canada though so a bit of a drive
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post #414 of 485 Old 06-14-2014, 05:44 PM
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I'd love to know what the max SPL levels are on this thing...

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post #415 of 485 Old 06-14-2014, 05:54 PM
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from the notes we took, the xo is 80, the fronts being Klipsch F-3's, no EQ or PEQ with the 775, which when I'd run audessay (?) from my 818 would always want to the xo to 40.
and from other comments, that dip after the xo is probably too narrow to notice aurally


there's plenty more testing to enjoy, not excluding moving MAX around, running YPAO and re-checking with REW
The "calibration" excess from previous posts may be attributed to the laptop I used whereas we switched to the HTPC I have in the rack behind the Mitsy.
Given that, I may put MAX back in the corner for the sake of comparison

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Before you do any moving, if the response graphs are post audyssey you owe yourself the quick 10 minutes it takes to set the distances between your mains and the max right. Since you have the rew rig going, flip polarity on the max (switch the pos and neg wires) and keep adjusting the sub distance on your AVR until you see the absolute WORST Dip at the xo point. Once you find it, flip the polarity back and you should be perfectly in phase with your mains. Trust me. It works
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post #417 of 485 Old 06-14-2014, 09:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by beastaudio View Post
Before you do any moving, if the response graphs are post audyssey you owe yourself the quick 10 minutes it takes to set the distances between your mains and the max right. Since you have the rew rig going, flip polarity on the max (switch the pos and neg wires) and keep adjusting the sub distance on your AVR until you see the absolute WORST Dip at the xo point. Once you find it, flip the polarity back and you should be perfectly in phase with your mains. Trust me. It works
this is really smart, and something im gonna mess around with in my own system. thx for the info.
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post #418 of 485 Old 06-15-2014, 01:21 AM
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Thumbs up

Quote:
Originally Posted by beastaudio View Post
Before you do any moving, if the response graphs are post audyssey you owe yourself the quick 10 minutes it takes to set the distances between your mains and the max right. Since you have the rew rig going, flip polarity on the max (switch the pos and neg wires) and keep adjusting the sub distance on your AVR until you see the absolute WORST Dip at the xo point. Once you find it, flip the polarity back and you should be perfectly in phase with your mains. Trust me. It works

Really slick! I have never heard this method before and it makes perfect since!


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post #419 of 485 Old 06-15-2014, 08:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mfusick View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by beastaudio View Post
I have way too many articles of clothing with nice pl streaks on them....Great stuff but good lord it is not fun to remove from incidental contact areas.
Or you hands.






Even after scrubbing hours in shower and wrinkled fingers... the skin will fail before the bond does




I fixed the pictures


Back in college days I worked at a convention center and during the day of an event that I was going to be a server of plated meals I built a ported enclosure for one of my trucks and literally had my hands covered in PL. I was spreading it all around the corners and ports with my fingers and even though I had built many enclosures before I hadn't had to serve a black tie dinner afterwards. I didn't think twice about it until my GF showed up right after I had finished and was rubbing my hands off with any and everything I could find. She sent me into a panic that I'd lose my job or atleast not be able to serve that night. I ended up having to wear a pair of chef's gloves.

And even today I still use my finger to fill all the seems and make a mess of my hands. Disposable plastic gloves just end up ripping so I don't bother.

Alright, long boring story over!
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post #420 of 485 Old 06-15-2014, 09:03 PM
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If DIY doesn't kill you, 20130713_183558[1].jpg it'll make you stronger
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