SubMaximus -- A Large Front-Loaded Horn for UXL18 and Stereo Integrity HT 18" - Page 16 - AVS Forum
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post #451 of 485 Old 06-29-2014, 04:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mfusick View Post
Ideas for a tweak or anything you might change ? I am playing with the idea of a few horns for my build and I would like something monstrous. I am playing with the idea of using my second row riser- and my screen wall is also 3 feet. The room is going to be big (36 feet long by 25 feet wide) and I don't have WAF constraints and it's new construction starting soon so I can tweak the room and design around a great bass solution (if I can figure out a great bass solution). I am not afraid, but I am limited in budget. $1500 or so for drivers. I do not care about size, how much wood or how hard it would be to build it. Suggestions for me ?
http://hifiheroin.blogspot.com/searc...01:05:00-04:00

that just is a bunch of wood and time . He told me, when I was your shoe's, just build the biggest horn you can fit..... no regrets..
three little horns are much, much less bass than one big one.
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post #452 of 485 Old 06-30-2014, 08:34 AM
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That is the idea that intrigues me. I want to build a really big horn that digs down that extra octave. I know it takes 4x as much space but I think I could pull it off. If I could not get that extra octave then I will probably abandon horn idea. I am not interested in doing something average.

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post #453 of 485 Old 06-30-2014, 09:09 AM
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Talking

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mfusick View Post
That is the idea that intrigues me. I want to build a really big horn that digs down that extra octave. I know it takes 4x as much space but I think I could pull it off. If I could not get that extra octave then I will probably abandon horn idea. I am not interested in doing something average.
you are the kind of guy i like having as a neighbor! ( i love the lets over do it attitude )
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post #454 of 485 Old 06-30-2014, 09:11 AM
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Originally Posted by kevings View Post
you are the kind of guy i like having as a neighbor! ( i love the lets over do it attitude )
Just not the neighbor next door!

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post #455 of 485 Old 06-30-2014, 09:12 AM
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I'll overdo my soundproofing too

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post #456 of 485 Old 06-30-2014, 10:13 AM
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36 x 25 is 900 ft^2, what about the ceiling wrt to volume?
IDK but Max has a foot print of under 10 ft^2 , so unless you're going to seat 25 - 30 in that bodacious show piece of a HT,
as a percent of the overall budget,
build them.
from the cut sheets as posted, what's the price of 4 -5 sheets per sub? oak veneers or sander ply
for $1500 that's 3 UXL 18"s speakers, about 750- 800 plywood
AMPS?
and a mini DSP to rule them all


I'm intrigued

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post #457 of 485 Old 06-30-2014, 10:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mfusick View Post
That is the idea that intrigues me. I want to build a really big horn that digs down that extra octave. I know it takes 4x as much space but I think I could pull it off. If I could not get that extra octave then I will probably abandon horn idea. I am not interested in doing something average.
And in that same space, you could build something that produces greater output that isn't a horn...
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post #458 of 485 Old 06-30-2014, 11:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mfusick View Post
I'll overdo my soundproofing too
If you are talking BASS then I doubt that UNLESS you build a BUNKER! Period!
Nothing will stop bass...it has NO RESPECT for soundproofing!

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post #459 of 485 Old 06-30-2014, 11:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by notnyt View Post
And in that same space, you could build something that produces greater output that isn't a horn...
But could I afford it ?

Ported is my back up plan. I have plenty of space but lack of funds. $2000 is about my max for an initial bass solution but I'd Ike to be able to add and build on it over the years.

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post #460 of 485 Old 06-30-2014, 12:44 PM
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Quote:
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And in that same space, you could build something that produces greater output that isn't a horn...
Notnyt, can you elaborate on what you'd do here, within the budget specified? thx.
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post #461 of 485 Old 06-30-2014, 12:45 PM
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Quote:
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Notnyt, can you elaborate?
Model a horn that can dig to 15hz, now model a bunch of ported enclosures in the same volume of space.
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post #462 of 485 Old 06-30-2014, 04:05 PM
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http://www.data-bass.com/data?page=system&id=81

This looked pretty cool^

B&C 21" in a tapped horn

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post #463 of 485 Old 06-30-2014, 06:39 PM
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post #464 of 485 Old 06-30-2014, 06:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fatshaft View Post
If you are talking BASS then I doubt that UNLESS you build a BUNKER! Period!
Nothing will stop bass...it has NO RESPECT for soundproofing!
About which Dr. Geddes speaks at length:
http://gedlee.azurewebsites.net/Books/HomeTheater.aspx

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post #465 of 485 Old 06-30-2014, 06:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mfusick View Post
http://www.data-bass.com/data?page=system&id=81

This looked pretty cool^

B&C 21" in a tapped horn
But you want to get WAY lower than 27Hz!

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post #466 of 485 Old 06-30-2014, 07:03 PM
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Originally Posted by LastButNotLeast View Post
But you want to get WAY lower than 27Hz!
This is true. Ideally I'd like something that's huge so it can go low and loud. Pair it with a high value but high quality sub with lots of Xmax. Perhaps something like a submaximus but with a bigger cab.

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post #467 of 485 Old 07-01-2014, 01:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mfusick View Post
This is true. Ideally I'd like something that's huge so it can go low and loud. Pair it with a high value but high quality sub with lots of Xmax. Perhaps something like a submaximus but with a bigger cab.
The Dayton Ultimax 18's go in stock in a week according to PE.
Looks promising as the other Ultimax subs were pretty good for the money, and the 18" seems to have a much stronger motor.
4 of those puts them at $266 each, put them in 4 Marty-style cabs 12cuft tuned ~17hz.
Or go a-la Notnyt, tune to 15 hz, and since you have space, make the cabs HUGE.

Sub Upgrade Build Dayton Audio UM18-22 18" x 2 LLT

Sorry to derail.
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post #468 of 485 Old 07-01-2014, 06:30 AM
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I haven't been following this thread as closely as I was at the beginning, but can anyone tell me what the final driver choice was for this "Sub-Maximus"? What about the final design?
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post #469 of 485 Old 07-01-2014, 10:22 AM
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Talking Submaximus Driver

the name of this thread mentions a driver or two,


I went with the UXL 18, it weighs about twice as much as the SI model, maybe that makes it "better"


Max does seem to provide respectable FR, ULF and SPL, if you can believe REW


The uxl's are to be available middle of the month



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post #470 of 485 Old 07-01-2014, 04:51 PM
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I am trying to compare MAX to some of the builds here : http://www.data-bass.com/data?page=s...rt=desc&mfr=-1

Specifically the Ghorn. Did you ever take the same measurements so I could compare them ?

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post #471 of 485 Old 07-01-2014, 06:45 PM
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that's quite a read, and presents conditions and parameters and (expensive) equipment and jargon and, nevermind,
I've seen that before and wondered about how things might stack up
however
if the collective mind-meld here can concoct (a) protocol(s) that I can perform (HEY! Kids-try this at Home!) under controlled conditions to produce valid data,
then I'm all for it.
We have audiocheck for a good variety of input, sweeps, straight tones.
I'm sure that what I don't know enough about REW and what it can do for us holds creditable evidence of what just is or isn't really working wrt to design, expectations, ripple , response, spl, distortion, low end , etc and other performance parameters I hear people talk about but lack the background for a nuanced understanding of the real science.
WE are in the company of people who KNOW/LIVE/BREATH this stuff .
What MAX does now is PFG .
I'd like to revisit the HULK scene now that it is dialed in a touch better.
So, get me a test scenario that won't blow up the neighborhood or at least me,
if things prove to be that good, I'd be in for another . . .

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post #472 of 485 Old 07-01-2014, 06:53 PM
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addendum:
IF you can put a team together that would be able to perform all the testing in that link I'd be glad to drive 100 miles , any direction from OC, just to see it all.
or send them to garden grove (for some of it)
THAT would be awesome!

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post #473 of 485 Old 07-01-2014, 07:10 PM
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LTD02 (or anyone) can I ask a few questions about this design ?


First I plugged in some of the figures (I have slightly different driver specs I think loaded)



I have a lot of question but the first I have is how exactly and why exactly did you choose the values you did ?

Specifically why 320 for S2 or 1040 for S3 ? 2259 for S4 seems rather odd number to arrive at so it must have been intentional yes? What was the reason ? I would like to understand more about how this is designed.

Second, If I wanted to make the cabinet bigger and the length longer could I achieve a lower tune ? If I wanted to increase the bottom to a slightly lower tune what would I change ? I am still nooby and learning Hornresp so any advice, guidance and wisdom is appreciated.
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post #474 of 485 Old 07-20-2014, 04:46 AM
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How does this compare to a THT other than reading the specs.
250 Watts seems to be enough for the THT while 2200 watts is talked about with this sub.
Aren't they both horn loaded ?

Thank You
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post #475 of 485 Old 07-20-2014, 06:03 AM
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This horn will get a LOT louder than a THT.
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post #476 of 485 Old 07-20-2014, 02:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mfusick View Post
LTD02 (or anyone) can I ask a few questions about this design ?


First I plugged in some of the figures (I have slightly different driver specs I think loaded)



I have a lot of question but the first I have is how exactly and why exactly did you choose the values you did ?

Specifically why 320 for S2 or 1040 for S3 ? 2259 for S4 seems rather odd number to arrive at so it must have been intentional yes? What was the reason ? I would like to understand more about how this is designed.

Second, If I wanted to make the cabinet bigger and the length longer could I achieve a lower tune ? If I wanted to increase the bottom to a slightly lower tune what would I change ? I am still nooby and learning Hornresp so any advice, guidance and wisdom is appreciated.
Horns are great but my overall understanding is that one would be wasting space and time if the goal is high spl and a tune under 15-20hz. The goals can be reached by other means when trying to chase the ULF range. A room as big as yours will need lots of displacement in general for high spls and if you want that super low ULF content compromises will need to be made according to your goals.
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post #477 of 485 Old 07-23-2014, 06:07 PM
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This horn will get a LOT louder than a THT.
So withthe same size amp as a tht this will play as loud ?
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post #478 of 485 Old 07-23-2014, 06:32 PM - Thread Starter
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"I have a lot of question but the first I have is how exactly and why exactly did you choose the values you did ?

Specifically why 320 for S2 or 1040 for S3 ? 2259 for S4 seems rather odd number to arrive at so it must have been intentional yes? What was the reason ? I would like to understand more about how this is designed."


I created an exponential horn flare in excel. Then, I approximated that flare with straight sections within the confines of the actual enclosure.


So for example, I'd say, if the horn were exponential flare and there is some distance to the first corner inside the enclosure how much area should be at that corner. and so on. so even though each section is technically best modeled by PAR sections, overall it is an exponential horn.

Listen. It's All Good.
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post #479 of 485 Old 07-23-2014, 06:37 PM - Thread Starter
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"Second, If I wanted to make the cabinet bigger and the length longer could I achieve a lower tune ? If I wanted to increase the bottom to a slightly lower tune what would I change ? I am still nooby and learning Hornresp so any advice, guidance and wisdom is appreciated."


in theory, but even this one seems a little too long given the size of the mouth (which of course dictates the overall size of the horn).


if the mouth is too small relative to the length, then the bottom end of the horn won't get ideal loading. this is why I kept focusing on that aspect.


the more that I look at the numbers, the less enthusiastic I am about front loaded horns with low corners under about 25hz or so. there just isn't much benefit relative to a ported enclosure in the region where driver excursion limits output. I actually wrote up a short analysis of this point, just haven't posted it yet. :-(

Listen. It's All Good.
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post #480 of 485 Old 07-23-2014, 06:46 PM
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I'd like to read it when you get a chance. How does a Ghorn differ?

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