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post #451 of 1115 Old 11-10-2013, 08:45 PM
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Do a loopback from the AVR's LFE out and you'll know the rolloff of that device.

Right now you've got MobilePre analog out to analog in on the AVR, LFE out of AVR to FP14K?

Typical playback will be BD player HDMI to AVR, LFE out of AVR to FP14K?

If so you'll also have added rolloff from the analog AVR input as a possible consideration.

Loopback of the MobilePre provides you with calibration file to offset the analog-out rolloff you won't normally have. Though if there is analog-in rolloff there, it would be over-corrected for in that loopback calibration (unless equally present in the mic pre-amp input... I have no idea).
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post #452 of 1115 Old 11-10-2013, 09:08 PM - Thread Starter
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So I run the XLR out on the LFE of AVR to what? Mobile pre? Yes, I have PS3 HDMI to AVR. AVR to clone and mobile pre. Well the mobile pre to clone. Could I run the XLR from AVR to the XLR mic input on mobile pre?
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post #453 of 1115 Old 11-10-2013, 09:20 PM - Thread Starter
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Or do I run the LFE out which is XLR into the RCA input analog of the AVR?
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post #454 of 1115 Old 11-10-2013, 09:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MKtheater View Post

So I run the XLR out on the LFE of AVR to what? Mobile pre? Yes, I have PS3 HDMI to AVR. AVR to clone and mobile pre. Well the mobile pre to clone. Could I run the XLR from AVR to the XLR mic input on mobile pre?
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Originally Posted by MKtheater View Post

Or do I run the LFE out which is XLR into the RCA input analog of the AVR?

Right, back to the MobilePre if you can, to find out what the AVR is doing.

Actually, you could just go straight from MobilePre to FP14K and do a sweep, and since you know you won't be replacing that piece of the chain, you'd know what your "best case scenario" would be I think.
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post #455 of 1115 Old 11-11-2013, 06:25 AM
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Mine is the hulk pulse cannon scene and Battle of L.A.... pretty much the whole movie hahah

With enough sub, that scene is pretty cool. Love feeling the waves hit you. smile.gif

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post #456 of 1115 Old 11-11-2013, 07:26 AM - Thread Starter
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I only use Transformers ROTF because the Danley's produced bass during a scene the previous system did not.
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post #457 of 1115 Old 11-11-2013, 08:05 AM
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With enough sub, that scene is pretty cool. Love feeling the waves hit you. smile.gif

unless your on a 2nd level floor where the waves look like the floor buckling.....was really just too much beer and the vision but holy $hit smile.gif

later realized was still running the danley's hot for music eq lol

beer + HT = fun

"I should really see what dB levels I'm pushing. Long as it can't foam my beer during a movie we are ok "
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post #458 of 1115 Old 11-11-2013, 08:33 AM - Thread Starter
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My mobile pre rolloff is very steep. The cal files are supposed to help but in comparison my computer sound card was -3 dBs at 3 Hz and the mobile pre was off the graph by 10hz! Like how mine drops off after 7hz. It seems my mic is good but my sound card is not, I need a new one. The feeling of this IB is just much more powerful than the others on the famous scenes so the graphs don't even make any sense.
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post #459 of 1115 Old 11-11-2013, 09:31 AM
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Yeah, that's not right. Start over with just the MobilePre and reset everything, input/output gain and get a good loopback calibration. My MobilePre is not much below -3dB at 3Hz.

Edit: About -4dB by 3Hz, this is what you should be seeing:

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post #460 of 1115 Old 11-11-2013, 09:38 AM
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Be cautious of over-excursion.

MK, can you reiterate ... what's the config, total load, total power and power per driver? We touched upon this long ago, but my IB3-18 drivers seem to be susceptible to hard bottoming. I've communicated with others that didn't share my opinion, or experience the same issue.

Did you free air them, in the total connected load, and signal path? So much easier than enduring the big SPLs if loaded in the IB. I performed these experiments, using various load/power configurations, and slowly brought the level up until a very slight tapping/ticking begins. On one occasion, maybe a second, I hard bottomed the full set in the manifold, with program material, .. scared the hell out of me.

Anyway, did you experiment like this?

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post #461 of 1115 Old 11-11-2013, 09:40 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nfraso View Post

Yeah, that's not right. Start over with just the MobilePre and reset everything, input/output gain and get a good loopback calibration. My MobilePre is not much below -3dB at 3Hz.

Edit: About -4dB by 3Hz, this is what you should be seeing:


Yeah, mine is nothing like that, I will have to post the graph of the mobile pre. I know what my system is doing is not what the gear is measuring. I will buy new cables for it as well. That could be the problem too. I will buy a 1/4 to 1/4 mic cable and just use that. I did not have that prior. I will do this in about an hour and see.
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post #462 of 1115 Old 11-11-2013, 09:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MKtheater View Post

Yeah, mine is nothing like that, I will have to post the graph of the mobile pre. I know what my system is doing is not what the gear is measuring. I will buy new cables for it as well. That could be the problem too. I will buy a 1/4 to 1/4 mic cable and just use that. I did not have that prior. I will do this in about an hour and see.

Yeah, I know what you're saying. I've had bad loopback calibrations with the MobilPre that sound like what you're seeing. Just have to reset everything and start from scratch.
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post #463 of 1115 Old 11-11-2013, 09:49 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FOH View Post

Be cautious of over-excursion.

MK, can you reiterate ... what's the config, total load, total power and power per driver? We touched upon this long ago, but my IB3-18 drivers seem to be susceptible to hard bottoming. I've communicated with others that didn't share my opinion, or experience the same issue.

Did you free air them, in the total connected load, and signal path? So much easier than enduring the big SPLs if loaded in the IB. I performed these experiments, using various load/power configurations, and slowly brought the level up until a very slight tapping/ticking begins. On one occasion, maybe a second, I hard bottomed the full set in the manifold, with program material, .. scared the hell out of me.

Anyway, did you experiment like this?

My first test ever with them was running test tones thru all of them wired as one 8 ohm load to the bridged clone or about 3000-4000 watts RMS capable. I just made sure all were firing and in the same direction. My next step was playing the song at the end of cloverfield on about -20 dBs. That is called roar and has good low end and recorded in HD audio. I did not put the screen on yet so I can see all the drivers vibrating. I then turned the dial up and ended up at reference and the cones were hardly moving and you can feel the bass. So like any bass head I wanted to see some movement and put in the beginning scene when the monster walks past the shop when he says it's alive at reference. My cones don't move that much even then and it was shaking the chairs pretty good. So I have about 500 watts per drive RMS available but they won't use all that power for my needs. For a comparison, this system is about 3 dBs more sensitive than the eD's but I have no idea the pink noise bandwidth it used. My favorite comments are I thought you could not feel bass on concrete floors. Well, the concrete is not moving.
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post #464 of 1115 Old 11-11-2013, 09:52 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by nfraso View Post

Yeah, I know what you're saying. I've had bad loopback calibrations with the MobilPre that sound like what you're seeing. Just have to reset everything and start from scratch.

Will do and this means my eD system was probably off as well. I have never seen a good loopback yet but I Have always used connectors and such for the cables so I will buy that single cable and get a loopback. I have plenty XLR's but there are no XLR outputs on the mobile pre to use. I thought I had a XLR to 1/4 adapter but my box of cables are a mess.
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post #465 of 1115 Old 11-11-2013, 10:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MKtheater View Post


RAW with no EQ.





Much better...

Quote:
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and narrow band cal files.


What do you mean by this?

I used to have a Mobile Pre and Nfraso's measurement looks close to what I remember. You may see an impedance mismatch using a 1/4" TRS to XLR cable loopback which will exaggerate the low end roll off. Use a regular 1/4" cable and use the 1/4" input of the mic inputs for the loopback. If you try both you should see what I mean. If you are interested try the headphone output as well.

What mic are you using? The only cal files that should be applied for measurements are the mic cal if one is even needed and the soundcard. Once you get a good loopback you can measure the processor LFE output and see what the roll off is there. If you do a straight measurement from the SC into the amp then drivers and follow with one including the processor in the loop you should be able to subtract out the amplifier roll off too. For system measurements the only cal files needed are the SC and mic since the amp and processor roll offs are inherent to the system so should be included.
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post #466 of 1115 Old 11-11-2013, 10:38 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ricci View Post

Much better...
What do you mean by this?

I used to have a Mobile Pre and Nfraso's measurement looks close to what I remember. You may see an impedance mismatch using a 1/4" TRS to XLR cable loopback which will exaggerate the low end roll off. Use a regular 1/4" cable and use the 1/4" input of the mic inputs for the loopback.

What mic are you using? The only cal files that should be applied for measurements are the mic cal if one is even needed and the soundcard. Once you get a good loopback you can measure the processor LFE output and see what the roll off is there. If you do a straight measurement from the SC into the amp then drivers and follow with one including the processor in the loop you should be able to subtract out the amplifier roll off too. For system measurements the only cal files needed are the SC and mic since the amp and processor roll offs are inherent to the system so should be included.

Yes I suspect the culprit is the cabling. I use the Cross spectrum behringer premium mic and use their cal files that came with the mic. They have a narrow band for subs and 1/3 octave band for full response. I use the narrow band which goes from 4hz to 200 hz or something like that. Going to get the cable now. I knew I did not have a dip at 12hz wink.gif
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post #467 of 1115 Old 11-11-2013, 11:24 AM - Thread Starter
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Right loopback
souncard_zps6c6e62ba.jpg

Left channel

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post #468 of 1115 Old 11-12-2013, 06:51 AM - Thread Starter
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So is my sound card messed up or am I doing something wrong? I am about to order another mic that plugs into usb if I can't get this thing working.
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post #469 of 1115 Old 11-12-2013, 08:15 AM
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Humor me and run one loopback from the 1/4" out on the back to the 1/4" in on the mic channel. Also run one from the headphone output to the mic channel again only use 1/4" and not xlr. Put all three on the same graph.
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post #470 of 1115 Old 11-12-2013, 08:21 AM - Thread Starter
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That was with 1/4 to 1/4. The mobile pre left input 1/4 is on the front and the two outputs(1/4) are on the back. So the left channel loop back was front to back 1/4 to 1/4. The right channel were both located on the back and 1/4 to 1/4. The only xlr is an input for both right or left and on the back, I did not use it for this. No XLR outputs. There are some mini 1/4 plugs which I have already tried with the original results. These were the newest tries using a 1/4 to 1/4 cable I bought yesterday.
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post #471 of 1115 Old 11-12-2013, 08:33 AM
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It's definitely not right- besides the rolloff the overall response should be smoother:

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post #472 of 1115 Old 11-12-2013, 08:47 AM
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MK, what MobilePre do you have? Is it not like this?



Edit: Maybe this is the one you have?



You should have input gain control and a line output knob- do you know where you have those set?
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post #473 of 1115 Old 11-12-2013, 08:55 AM
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Loopback using the 2/R Output and into the Ch2 Inst/Line Input; set Channel 2 volume level about 1/4 of the way up, make sure Mic volume is muted and Phantom Power is OFF.

There are some windows device/mixer settings you can double check to make sure everything is set up right: http://www.hometheatershack.com/forums/spl-meters-mics-calibration-sound-cards/53169-mobilepre-usb-setup-troubleshooting-thread.html

But now that I'm looking at that thread, his final loopback response looks more like yours, so I think the older models might roll off like that after all! It still should be smoother though:

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post #474 of 1115 Old 11-12-2013, 09:02 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nfraso View Post

Loopback using the 2/R Output and into the Ch2 Inst/Line Input; set Channel 2 volume level about 1/4 of the way up, make sure Mic volume is muted and Phantom Power is OFF.

There are some windows device/mixer settings you can double check to make sure everything is set up right: http://www.hometheatershack.com/forums/spl-meters-mics-calibration-sound-cards/53169-mobilepre-usb-setup-troubleshooting-thread.html

But now that I'm looking at that thread, his final loopback response looks more like yours, so I think the older models might roll off like that after all! It still should be smoother though:


Yes we are on to something now! I have the older one or the second picture. I did turn off phantom power and muted the mic. I actually unplugged the mic as well. My channel two gain control was set to match the output on REW. If you don't do this correctly REW tells you the settings are off and you won't get an accurate graph so it gives none. So the question is, do I buy a new sound card or that USB mic?
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post #475 of 1115 Old 11-12-2013, 09:06 AM
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Well, if you actually did get a good soundcard calibration, and used that as the correction file... I don't see why your measurements wouldn't be accurate? Did you save and use that correction for your measurements?

You could pick up a calibrated USB mic and use optical or HDMI audio output to your receiver and then not have to use a soundcard calibration at all. If your PC doesn't have digital audio, you can pick up video cards with HDMI pretty cheap these days.
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post #476 of 1115 Old 11-12-2013, 09:19 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
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Well, if you actually did get a good soundcard calibration, and used that as the correction file... I don't see why your measurements wouldn't be accurate? Did you save and use that correction for your measurements?

You could pick up a calibrated USB mic and use optical or HDMI audio output to your receiver and then not have to use a soundcard calibration at all. If your PC doesn't have digital audio, you can pick up video cards with HDMI pretty cheap these days.

I am looking into options now. Any suggestions for HDMI video cards? Easy to install? I have never done this before. I would love to just run HDMI out of my PC anyways, or optical.
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post #477 of 1115 Old 11-12-2013, 09:25 AM
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Yeah, piece of cake. What PC do you have? Do you know the motherboard model?
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post #478 of 1115 Old 11-12-2013, 09:35 AM - Thread Starter
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It is an old Dell put together buy my friend. All USB with no cd or dvd drives. It has a line input, output, and mic mini plug. That is it! My office computer is an all in one touch screen gateway with bluray and hdmi. Maybe I can just bring that home when I want to measure? I am not sure if the HDMI is an input or output.
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post #479 of 1115 Old 11-12-2013, 11:44 AM
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Download CPU-Z and get me a screenshot of the Mainboard tab: http://www.cpuid.com/downloads/cpu-z/1.67-setup-en.exe

Something like this:

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post #480 of 1115 Old 11-12-2013, 11:58 AM - Thread Starter
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I will bring home my office computer tonight and see how that works. I don't have a USB mic though, this is why I tried my RS meter and c-weighting as it worked and measured well before.
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