Fi IB3-18 x 8 and SEOS pure 10 kits! - Page 25 - AVS Forum
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post #721 of 1115 Old 11-24-2013, 06:03 PM
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Originally Posted by tuxedocivic View Post

If I can interject here. I'm starting to see there's a lot of history about Craig on this forum I'm totally unaware of. But I'd like to try and put any bias in perspective. As the Fusion 10 designer, I've got a great interest in the results of any listening test like this. I truly do appreciate candid reviews of how I make speakers. I don't design speakers to make money. I don't accept the donation Erich offers me. I do it because its fun, and I want to make awesome speakers. So if someone like MK says, "dude I built a pair of your speaks and the theater 10 crushes them", I honestly just want to know why. Yah, it damages the pride a bit. But it can only help me improve. So obviously its me who has a lot to learn from this comparison.

So! Lets let the dust settle a little and see what other people have to say about them. Once the results are in and the dust clears, then speculation can begin.

I will say, I had a peek at Chase's forum and was surprised to see Craig's comments about SEOS speakers directly. He even singled out the Fusion 10. I know I've made comments in the past comparing it to the sho-10 that were negative. I will stand my ground that those comments were entirely from a technical perspective and they haven't changed. Craig maybe picked up on this and put a target on me. I don't know. But between his comments about DIY, initial comments about SPL differences, and the obvious partiality of the comparison, I will be taking the reviews with a grain of salt.

MK, thanks for taking Craig's challenge and letting us in on it. Looking forward to reading more.

Spot on. If anyone is feeling a hint of "hostility" here and placing it solely on me you've quickly forgotten that this GTG focus of the Theater-10 vs Fusion-10 was born out of quite a bit of hostility possibly beggining with stuff tux refers to here, but most certainly what I referenced earlier from Chase:
Quote:
Take a Theater 10 at the group buy of $300. Why would anyone want to bother building a kit that costs $300 without any paint when he can add to cart on our Theater 10?

The answer is simple - The guy LOVES to build stuff.

Here is the MAIN ISSUE with certain guys in the DIY section: They love to trash commercially built products. They use poor science at best to prove their point.

Allow an example: Most of the same guys who trash commercially built products also trash the concept that amplifiers sound different.

They point to blind studies/tests as proof.

These same guys (and again, it is a minority of the DIY guys - but also the most vocal) will build a speaker, turn it on, post 2 sweeps with Omni mic and declare TOTAL superiority. Suddenly, blind tests and real listening science is not important

So yeah, when it comes to shots fired at guys in this subforum and all of the incredible work they've done solely to improve, contribute and help out this community I might get a bit edgy sharing the "results" of a shootout as I read them and the consensus starts to form in favor of this seemingly pre-determined agenda. My bad.

To get back on track, here is some explanation from Craig on his reasoning for the 5dB volume difference being desired by the listening group:
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Guys - After the main body of the first tests on November 23, which included the first round of blind tests plus the second round of "sighted tests" with no Audyssey engaged, we discussed the "it's louder" comment with the second test.

The movie scenes we listened to were loud. The first 45 minutes were loud, and I thought very good sounding. The Fusion-10 Pure is a very nice sounding loudspeaker.

As the speakers were level matched, and both played quite loudly, I offered up my thoughts regarding why the guys thought it was louder for "speaker B":

This is something we have all experienced. There is music being played loudly - let's say it is from a live band. The band takes a break, and when they come back for the next set, it initially sounds a lot louder than we thought it did when the band stopped playing for their break.

There was about a 25 minute break for the panel between sessions, and when firing up the Iron Man scene for "round 2", the panel was coming from "quiet" back to quite loud.

Based on their thoughts, we dropped the SPL by 4 dB after the first track for the second and third tracks on speaker "B".

I also offered to replay the Iron Man scene at the lower volume level, but the panel declined the offer. Keep in mind, they had no idea which speaker "B" was at this time.

Part of the conversation was also in understanding that while they "might" have a preference in this test, with a 25 minute gap between sessions, the preference should be considered in the context of this type of listening.

This was also why MK wanted to do another 15 minutes on each speaker set with the only gap being the time it took us to unplug the Fusion 10 and plug in the Theater 10 trios.

Now we were down to about 3 minutes between sessions.
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post #722 of 1115 Old 11-24-2013, 06:23 PM
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Originally Posted by nfraso View Post

Spot on. If anyone is feeling a hint of "hostility" here and placing it solely on me you've quickly forgotten that this GTG focus of the Theater-10 vs Fusion-10 was born out of quite a bit of hostility possibly beggining with stuff tux refers to here, but most certainly what I referenced earlier from Chase:
So yeah, when it comes to shots fired at guys in this subforum and all of the incredible work they've done solely to improve, contribute and help out this community I might get a bit edgy sharing the "results" of a shootout as I read them and the consensus starts to form in favor of this seemingly pre-determined agenda. My bad.

To get back on track, here is some explanation from Craig on his reasoning for the 5dB volume difference being desired by the listening group:

So were they running subs for these test or just the speakers themselves?
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post #723 of 1115 Old 11-24-2013, 06:32 PM
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Originally Posted by Shan87 View Post

So were they running subs for these test or just the speakers themselves?

There were two subwoofers that the speakers were crossed over to. I believe they were new VS-18.1s but I don't think it's been specifically mentioned, so don't quote me on that.

The crossover point and overall level at the seats (of the subs) I don't believe has been revealed. Only the AVR's output levels: "Subwoofer A was -3 dB and B was - 5 dB."
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post #724 of 1115 Old 11-24-2013, 07:10 PM
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Originally Posted by chalugadp View Post

What are you powering your speakers with atabea ?

I am using an Anthem MRX500 which is rated at 75 WPC. The Tempests are very efficient and real easy to drive and it gets plenty loud. That being said, I plan on getting a 3-channel amp for the front stage (prolly the emotiva).
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post #725 of 1115 Old 11-24-2013, 07:32 PM
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Originally Posted by bill1908 View Post

Erich, I can't see where Craig actually said  that the cd was hand picked. Can you provide the link for me?
I do see where sbdman made this reference in his post .

I was going by the quote that someone posted and thought it was a reference from Craig. I hope it wasn't because comments like that just aren't right. However, he did poke at the speaker and DIY kits a couple times already before even hearing them, so who knows. The whole things sounds strange, but nothing surprises me anymore in the land of audio.

I don't understand the desire of some small audio companies going out of their way to bash other's for no reason at all, even prior to hearing anything. I don't do it out of respect for a small business owner and have never put down anyone's product. Hopefully the same holds true, but that could be wishful thinking.

There's absolutely nothing wrong with people liking one speaker over another. People like Polk over JBL, over Infinity, over Klipsch, etc.......pretty normal stuff. But you never see the owner of Polk come out and say "why would you buy that JBL model when you can buy our speaker for this price." That's totally different than a few people listening to some speakers and saying what they like or dislike.
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post #726 of 1115 Old 11-24-2013, 07:40 PM
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Originally Posted by nube View Post

Sounds to me like Craig ran the "Speaker B" set at +6 volume level. Louder always = better in audio memory.

So, what I wrote was almost undoubtedly true, since CC agreed to lower the volume by 4dB on the Speaker B test? He would never agree to that unless the thing was rigged from the get-go. That's just not his MO.

I'll refrain from posting anything else about it until someone starts a discussion of it in a separate, dedicated thread. For now, I wanna know how James' IB measures!
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post #727 of 1115 Old 11-24-2013, 07:41 PM - Thread Starter
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This is the festering I am talking about. Craig likes Erich and thinks what he is doing is great.
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post #728 of 1115 Old 11-24-2013, 07:53 PM
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Originally Posted by Erich H View Post

I was going by the quote that someone posted and thought it was a reference from Craig. I hope it wasn't because comments like that just aren't right. He did poke at the speaker and DIY kits a couple times already, so who knows. The whole things sounds strange, but nothing surprises me anymore in the land of audio.


I see nothing wrong with people liking one speaker over another. People like Polk over JBL, over Infinity, over Klipsch, etc.......pretty normal stuff. But you never see the owner of Polk come out and say "why would you buy that JBL model when you can buy our speaker for this price." That's totally different than a few people listening to some speakers and saying what they like or dislike.

I don't understand the desire of some small audio companies going out of their way to bash other's for no reason at all. I don't do it out of respect for a small business owner and have never put down anyone's product. Hopefully the same holds true, but that could be wishful thinking. It's not like 2 can't play at that game.

As a small business owner, I would never bash my competition, that's just not right. As Erich said, people like different speakers, and I respect that. I just hope Craig took the time to properly set up the Fusions. I own them and know it takes some tweaking to get them to sound right in the room. They need to be toed in more than I realized. Having said that, I think the Fusions are great sounding speakers. Although, to be fair, I've never heard anything that Chase Home Theater has to offer. If these speakers get put up against each other again, maybe a third party can do the setup? Anyway, I'm waiting to hear from MK before I draw any conclusions.
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post #729 of 1115 Old 11-24-2013, 08:21 PM
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Holy hell can we get a courtesy flush in this thread biggrin.gif

Let MK post in his own thread. Mucking it up is just rude guys. If I sold speakers of course mine would be the best. . . really what did you guys expect. I still say without even hearing the TH10 is not as good as the SHO10. No magic word play is going to change my mind.

Back to MK and his comments please.
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"I should really see what dB levels I'm pushing. Long as it can't foam my beer during a movie we are ok "
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post #730 of 1115 Old 11-24-2013, 08:22 PM
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Originally Posted by MKtheater View Post

This is the festering I am talking about. Craig likes Erich and thinks what he is doing is great.

MK, maybe we read into it wrong, but what Craig said about DIY design and the SEOS all in the same breath, doesn't jive with what you're saying. At the same time, I know Craig did try and help out Erich in the early days. So I can't say one way or the other. Just that you gotta see from the vantage point of an observer how it might look. I do think the festering should just stop and wait for you and others to post their thoughts smile.gif

EDIT - I was basing that comment on the Hey guys thread from way back in the beginning. I guess Craig was trying to help the DIY community get the QSC waveguide back, not necessarily help Erich directly. Just to clarify as I just went and had a look at the thread.
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post #731 of 1115 Old 11-24-2013, 08:35 PM
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Originally Posted by MKtheater View Post

This is the festering I am talking about. Craig likes Erich and thinks what he is doing is great.

This is the kind of knee-jerk defense I'm talking about that you're too eager to contribute when it comes to Chase. Why? You feel like you have to sweep stuff he says under the rug so that everyone will just get along because Craig is just "misunderstood". Some might have believed that once upon a time, but as he's been "misunderstood" for years now, there's little to wonder at this point. rolleyes.gif

Why build this when you can just buy my stuff is no misunderstanding, it's undeniably his business model. Which would be fine I guess if it was presented as just another option with merits suggested to stand on it's own.

But to step on someone else's head and go as far as to say "why would anyone want to bother" with Erich's kits... though unsurprising at this point, pretty disappointing to find anyone supporting it.

I'll gladly work on putting together a new thread to cover this GTG's comparison and results and move the discussion if that's what you'd prefer. Just say the word.

Though I do agree with nube and look forward to new measurements of the IB when the mic arrives.
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post #732 of 1115 Old 11-25-2013, 06:09 AM
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This is like a Ford or Chevy debate. Jeebus...move on.
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post #733 of 1115 Old 11-25-2013, 07:25 AM
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This is like a Ford or Chevy debate. Jeebus...move on.
+1 This WAS a good thread up until a couple of pages ago. smh
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post #734 of 1115 Old 11-25-2013, 08:05 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by nfraso View Post

This is the kind of knee-jerk defense I'm talking about that you're too eager to contribute when it comes to Chase. Why? You feel like you have to sweep stuff he says under the rug so that everyone will just get along because Craig is just "misunderstood". Some might have believed that once upon a time, but as he's been "misunderstood" for years now, there's little to wonder at this point. rolleyes.gif

Why build this when you can just buy my stuff is no misunderstanding, it's undeniably his business model. Which would be fine I guess if it was presented as just another option with merits suggested to stand on it's own.

But to step on someone else's head and go as far as to say "why would anyone want to bother" with Erich's kits... though unsurprising at this point, pretty disappointing to find anyone supporting it.

I'll gladly work on putting together a new thread to cover this GTG's comparison and results and move the discussion if that's what you'd prefer. Just say the word.

Though I do agree with nube and look forward to new measurements of the IB when the mic arrives.

No, it is because you take a quote and discuss it in a negative way because you are biased in your opinion. I have met Craig twice and he did not talk bad about anyone so you want me to lie?

The challenge of the SEOS was for anyone to do, I just took the opportunity to do so because now I have 3 SEOS speakers. If you want to make that a conspiracy theory go right ahead. The problem is you want to bring Chase over here and discuss your issues with them. You monitor a forum which you supposedly hate and copy and paste over here and get people involved. You actually bring Chase threads to the forefront all by yourself whether good or bad. People usually just move on. So let's move on and discuss the IB and SEOS for crying out loud. Why would you even care if someone liked the theater 10 more than the SEOS. Now on to my experiences.

Nube,
The IB trounces everything in it's wake. No comparison. The biggest thing I have noticed is the very short decay times because the bass hits hard and gone! Concrete floors help with that as well but my other systems were on the same floor.

I won't get into the setup as that was already copy and pasted by nfraso, thanks.

Anyways I suggested to the guys to have a list of things they liked in a speaker and then I used my speaker shootout criteria because that is what I look for. I shared this with the guys and it became the standard. I listened for dynamics, detail, soundstage, midbass, feeling, and overall which was a better cinematic experience. We listened to 3 clips consisting of Iron Man 2, Avatar, and Open range. First it was speaker A and to me it was very smooth with laid back highs but all the detail. I thought the bass was a little overwhelming compared to the speaker so I figured this was the bass being run hot. As soon as speaker B was listened to I immediately thought the levels were higher or the speaker was not level with the bass. I waited for someone else to bring this up and they did so it was turned down 4 dBs but that was guessing as I thought it was still a little louder. How many times I tell myself to bring and spl meter just in case and I never do! Anyways I thought speaker B had more detail(easier to hear because louder), more dynamics, and a better overall presentation. I still thought during Avatar when the queen spoke you could feel speaker A better and when the musical score hit you had a little better midbass punch. I chalked this up to a loudness thing and or an Audyssey thing. The SEOS was laid back compared to my DR's but it was better balanced without any EQ. So I recommended to try again but this time no audyssey. We used a different movie altogether but I just wanted to hear some quick differences without Audyssey. We listened to the intro of despicable me with both sets and now the levels were close. Again, not sure if exact but now I could tell the SEOS was more alive than before. Frankly, I could not tell much difference between the speakers this time but it was a short clip. I thought maybe the theater 10 was a little bit more dynamic but again I needed more time with known sources to really decide. To me the theater 10 is a worthy replacement for the Sho's because of two things, they had better midbass punch(when hitting a drum) and the one thing I liked about them was the more live sound they had. I never got that sound from the SHO-10's before but I will retry the SHO-10's in my theater and have a 3 way battle. My DR's just have a much bigger more dynamic sound than both so I know why I have them. Anyways, I liked the feel and some midbass(score) on the SEOS better but like the dynamics and live sound of the theater 10's better. It would be up to the individual to decide what they like better. The SEOS could be played loud and the highs are very nice and smooth. My DR's can bite your head off if you are not careful. The SEOS would be about $310 shipped with paint. The theater 10's will be $395 shipped. I would need more time with both in my room to determine. The theater 10's cabinets are cool looking with the triangle shape. I like the speakon jacks but I think Craig is changing them to binding posts. I would love to have more time and listen to them again. They are closer than not which I could tell without EQ. BTW, I threw in a 888 LP as a center just to compare quickly and I don't think anyone noticed a difference in that small clip. I did, I could feel it a bit more. Also, I was dead center in front!

The surprise of the day were the Salk Song towers! I like these for 2 channel very much, awesome speakers. Too bad they would blow up in my theater.
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post #735 of 1115 Old 11-25-2013, 08:20 AM
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MK, always loved your style bro !! I subscribed to watch and follow your build, not sure
why there is so much not to do with this build other than petty squabbling, not hard to start ones own thread eh smile.gif . I have enjoyed following all of your builds the last couple of years, can't wait to see the final touches done and your impressions once your finished. Getter done, honestly can't wait to read your thoughts after dialed in with some Hulk and WOTW...if you have it, when done, chuck in Hitman, Mr.Price Chapter at ref and let me know what you think...

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post #736 of 1115 Old 11-25-2013, 08:31 AM - Thread Starter
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I own the hitman. My IB is brutal, It has gobs of bass and I run it at lower levels than I ever have. I used to watch at 10 dBs hot and now 5 dBs is pushing it with this thing. I have to lock my theater door now because it keeps blowing open. More bass, more deep bass, and shorter decay times equals eek.gifeek.gifeek.gifeek.gif

I love it.
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post #737 of 1115 Old 11-25-2013, 09:01 AM
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Score!
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post #738 of 1115 Old 11-25-2013, 09:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nfraso View Post

No highs? No lows? Must be... Bose SEOS!



Quote:
Blind test of Theater 10s vs Fusion 10s: MKTheater brought three Fusion 10s over the night before. They had been assembled from a flat pack kit so they had a raw MDF surface appearance. Regardless, they looked impressive physically and the waveguide for the compression driver looks plenty serious. Craig had set up both sets of speakers under large swaths of black grille cloth so that we couldn't tell which set was playing. All we knew was that we were going to watch/listen to 3 sets of movie clips with "Speakers A". We would then all leave the room while Craig set up "Speakers B" and then we would come back in to watch/listen to the same three clips and then jot down our impressions. Once we did that and discussed our thoughts Craig did the reveal of which speakers were "A" and "B". Both sets of speakers were calibrated with Audessy XT32 between listening sessions. All the attendees should feel free to chime in and add their thoughts but my personal opinion was that I felt "Speakers B" sounded superior. I thought they were more dynamic sounding, they had more sparkle in high frequencies versus "speakers A" which sounded a little flat to my ears. When we heard "speakers B" it was like someone had pushed the "loudness" button and there was more happening way up high and way down low while the mids sounded the same while not being overpowered by the rest of the spectrum. After our session it was revealed that "Speakers B" we're the Theater 10s. I got the impression that most other folks felt the same way in their comments as well. After the blind portion we listened to each set again with Audessy turned off to see how they were "as is" and unequalized. Personally I still felt the Theater 10s were the better sounding speaker still. Again, other attendees should please chime in and post their thoughts.

There we have it, guys.
Quote:
Take a Theater 10 at the group buy of $300. Why would anyone want to bother building a kit that costs $300 without any paint when he can add to cart on our Theater 10?


Looks like I was wrong, the story will be the rebadged Chinese PA "Theater-10" handily defeating the Fusion 10's with more dynamics, high end sparkle and more happening down low.
There we have it, guys.

Dude, those were my observations that you quoted from. That was just my opinion stated as clearly and honestly as I could. You want to ask me some more details of what I thought. Feel free. Although you should probably start a dedicated thread or PM me so as not to dump any more in this one.

Best....Carlo.
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post #739 of 1115 Old 11-25-2013, 09:22 AM
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Like they say from the cult, hear the bass not the box biggrin.gif

On the TH10 notes vs the Fusion10. My thoughts are the Fusion has a wider bandwidth of freq response, where the TH10 is designed as a true PA speaker top for approx 80-100Hz bottom end roll off. That to me is an advantage to sound great in the top end, but fall flat and thin when ran full range. The Fusion was probably more mid bass punch with the cab ported and made for lower wider bandwidth. Personally if I wanted a PA speaker I'd go with the JBL SRX712M's and a few guys here on AVS had before. Well before SEOS some had PA JBL SRX and other models as front LCR arrays. The TH10 is probably a bargain PA at the $300 (inexpensive for a PA speaker) price point a great speaker for the buck.

Look for more review if you get a chance to put up the Fusion10 and SHO10 with the DR's. Least one things for certain, your set in the sub department finally haha

"I should really see what dB levels I'm pushing. Long as it can't foam my beer during a movie we are ok "
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post #740 of 1115 Old 11-25-2013, 09:40 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by autox320 View Post

Like they say from the cult, hear the bass not the box biggrin.gif

On the TH10 notes vs the Fusion10. My thoughts are the Fusion has a wider bandwidth of freq response, where the TH10 is designed as a true PA speaker top for approx 80-100Hz bottom end roll off. That to me is an advantage to sound great in the top end, but fall flat and thin when ran full range. The Fusion was probably more mid bass punch with the cab ported and made for lower wider bandwidth. Personally if I wanted a PA speaker I'd go with the JBL SRX712M's and a few guys here on AVS had before. Well before SEOS some had PA JBL SRX and other models as front LCR arrays. The TH10 is probably a bargain PA at the $300 (inexpensive for a PA speaker) price point a great speaker for the buck.

Look for more review if you get a chance to put up the Fusion10 and SHO10 with the DR's. Least one things for certain, your set in the sub department finally haha

Yeah, we could discuss why one is better than the other all day long, to me it is preference. I prefer everything but that does not happen. I already know I like my DR's better overall and the SEOS are smoother and makes more movies sound pleasant. I can get used to that. My DR's are brutal on some materials because they are so sensitive but I have not dialed them in yet, they need more tweaking than the IB but the mic should be here soon. The theater 10 sounded very nice and at reference in a big room they did a great job. NO reason to hate the speaker unless you hate the company. There is not one person that can say a bad thing about the SEOS, they did not lack detail, they had it all, just not forward in the presentation. Triads sound like this and they are expensive. Now having said all this I have not even seen a response yet so maybe I need to tweak them, we shall see. I will never sell them until I know for sure that my DR's are better with both flat with HF rolloff in room.
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post #741 of 1115 Old 11-25-2013, 09:45 AM - Thread Starter
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Did I mention that the song towers are awesome. If one can play reference with these in their room look out, they sound incredibly accurate and live!
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post #742 of 1115 Old 11-25-2013, 11:08 AM
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No, it is because you take a quote and discuss it in a negative way because you are biased in your opinion. I have met Craig twice and he did not talk bad about anyone so you want me to lie?

If you can honestly take a statement saying "why would you even bother" with Erich's kits and spin that into Craig being nice, I don't know how you can claim neutrality while pointing fingers here. tongue.gif

If anyone mistakes that as a 'misunderstanding', they do so willfully.

I've started a new thread for this discussion so we can leave this for your IB- as I also look forward to seeing new measurements and we'll keep that uncluttered. smile.gif
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post #743 of 1115 Old 11-25-2013, 11:28 AM
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Great thoughts MK, thanks for your efforts. Glad to hear what you think of the SEOS and the T10, nice for folks to have options. My first seos build was the Sentinel and I haven't looked back since!

Everytime you comment on your IB, my wallet and my wife thank you...I know this sounds opposite from what is typically said, but the cost savings of the IB18 vs the SI24 and all the power to run them is great! In all seriousness, the kind of reaction you have shown to your IB is truly encouraging to folks thinking of tryin it.
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post #744 of 1115 Old 11-25-2013, 12:19 PM
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+1

I did a LOT of reading on IB's and chose that route. I spent less than the JL Fathom 110 I used upstairs and of course, its no comparison. I'm thinking of actually doing an IB in my garage, using a manifold design to pipe into that room and selling the JL.
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post #745 of 1115 Old 11-25-2013, 12:36 PM - Thread Starter
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If you can honestly take a statement saying "why would you even bother" with Erich's kits and spin that into Craig being nice, I don't know how you can claim neutrality while pointing fingers here. tongue.gif

If anyone mistakes that as a 'misunderstanding', they do so willfully.

I've started a new thread for this discussion so we can leave this for your IB- as I also look forward to seeing new measurements and we'll keep that uncluttered. smile.gif

Well of course Craig will be biased towards his speakers, anyone would. I was biased towards the seos I built. At least we listened to both to get a gauge on things. OK, new thread, great, I think my new mic came in today, if it did I am taking my computer home.
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post #746 of 1115 Old 11-25-2013, 12:40 PM - Thread Starter
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Great thoughts MK, thanks for your efforts. Glad to hear what you think of the SEOS and the T10, nice for folks to have options. My first seos build was the Sentinel and I haven't looked back since!

Everytime you comment on your IB, my wallet and my wife thank you...I know this sounds opposite from what is typically said, but the cost savings of the IB18 vs the SI24 and all the power to run them is great! In all seriousness, the kind of reaction you have shown to your IB is truly encouraging to folks thinking of tryin it.

They are stupid good! Is that a correct statement? I can see the sentinel being an upgrade! What are you doing with those? Maybe we could swap! If you need smaller surrounds I have these and gets me a chance to test the 15 inch version!

Seriously, the IB is so damn good. I have a feeling though it is part baffle wall helping as well. I think the mic is in so I will measure tonight!
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post #747 of 1115 Old 11-25-2013, 12:50 PM
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They are stupid good! Is that a correct statement? I can see the sentinel being an upgrade! What are you doing with those? Maybe we could swap! If you need smaller surrounds I have these and gets me a chance to test the 15 inch version!

Seriously, the IB is so damn good. I have a feeling though it is part baffle wall helping as well. I think the mic is in so I will measure tonight!

That's the perfect statement!

I acutally sold the Sentinels earlier this year. I ordered up everything for the SEOSR and matching surrounds, so I sold them to a guy who wanted some seos, but had no diy ability or I would have happily sent them your way. You acutally aren't too far from me if I remeber correctly....I will have a couple of the TD15M/seos12 dna 360 towers done very soon, you're welcome to some time with them. I could even send a pair of them to you just to play for testing and send em' back once my room is finished up.
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post #748 of 1115 Old 11-25-2013, 12:53 PM
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the baffle makes a big difference. I see mine flexing not from pressure but the mechanical clamping forces of the drivers. it's a long, straight wall with 2x4's...trying to figure out the best way to brace it (24" OC and offset laminate joists above so not as easy as putting a 2x4 at a 45 degree angle to triangulate it).
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post #749 of 1115 Old 11-25-2013, 02:00 PM - Thread Starter
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That's the perfect statement!

I acutally sold the Sentinels earlier this year. I ordered up everything for the SEOSR and matching surrounds, so I sold them to a guy who wanted some seos, but had no diy ability or I would have happily sent them your way. You acutally aren't too far from me if I remeber correctly....I will have a couple of the TD15M/seos12 dna 360 towers done very soon, you're welcome to some time with them. I could even send a pair of them to you just to play for testing and send em' back once my room is finished up.

I am in, I would love to test them!
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post #750 of 1115 Old 11-25-2013, 02:02 PM
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Great stuff MK. Always love hearing impressions.

If you guys with IB can see flexing than your prolly losing something with that. Wether it's noticeable or HOW detrimental to the sound is the real question. Having that much headroom prolly doesn't make it an issue tho.

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