My low profile Cheap Thrills (DNA350, seos12, Celestion BO) - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 24 Old 08-19-2013, 04:23 PM - Thread Starter
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I though I would do a quick thread with a few pics of the Cheap Thrill, along with my impressions.
I built mine with GFAF in mind. The typical box with a duratex finish would'nt cut it. Final internal dimensions are 42" tall, 7 inches deep, and 16 wide. The shallow depth makes them very manageable. and not intrusive into the livingroom.



All the parts, including some extras for my upcoming Big Mal. Pictures do no justice as to the quality of the components.


Built a couple Boxes out of some crappy pine I had left over from an ongoing horn project.


Slapped on some leftover stain from when I refinished my floors... I left some of the wood exposed to help the glue bond the baffles to the cab..


Clamp, and wait.


Crossovers. My least ugly crossovers ever.



Cats. Im not sure if it was the fluffy one or the nice one. Shopvac made quick work of it.


When you build giant speakers you can build giant crossovers and not worry about them fitting..


I use stainless allen bolts along with t-nuts. I remove and reinstall my woofers often, these tend to stand up to the abuse better than any other mounting method.


As far as listening impressions, the first time I fired them up, I was underwhelmed. After a couple minutes of playing, they quickly opened up and began to come alive. I'm not much of a believer in break-in, however after what I heard, I think there may be some truth with professional drivers. They sounded pretty damn good!

I then added 8 feet of r13 insulation to each cabinet, and reversed the polarity on the compression drivers. This pushed them from good speakers to amazing speakers.

As far as power handling, they get painfully loud on just my receivers internal power (pioneer vsx-82txs, 130WPC), however I was able to push my IPR1600 to clipping with a 80hz filter, the speakers didn't flinch. its makes me wonder how far you can actually push these...

I can't begin to describe the imaging, the dynamics, and the surplus of overhead these produce. It seems like there is no limit to the output available, and these do it effortlessly. These are my first waveguides, and I can't believe how big the sound is.

These have replaced my beloved ADS L710s (circa 1973). The 710s are amazing, but besides deep bass output (which I dont need in my living room) the CTs do everything better.

People spend thousands of dollars to accomplish what I did with $400 and 15 hours of (fun) work, and they will never feel the pride I do.
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post #2 of 24 Old 08-19-2013, 05:43 PM
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I'm building the same cheap thrills... so switching the polarity on the CD's made them sound better?? I may have to test that out when I finish mine.
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post #3 of 24 Old 08-19-2013, 05:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wormraper View Post

I'm building the same cheap thrills... so switching the polarity on the CD's made them sound better?? I may have to test that out when I finish mine.

With all this talk (in this thread and others) about having to switching polarity on the CDs (360), does that hold true for all SEOS Kit designs using these drivers? I will be building Tempests and I was wondering if this is something I need to be aware of.

thanks
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post #4 of 24 Old 08-19-2013, 09:00 PM - Thread Starter
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It may be in my head... And I stuffed my box the same time I switched the CD.... I say give it a try and listen to what you like.
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post #5 of 24 Old 08-20-2013, 12:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wormraper View Post

I'm building the same cheap thrills... so switching the polarity on the CD's made them sound better?? I may have to test that out when I finish mine.

There was another mod somewhere that actually corrected what was wrong rather than covering it up

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"Too much is almost enough. Anything in life worth doing is worth overdoing. Moderation is for cowards."
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post #6 of 24 Old 08-20-2013, 03:02 PM
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Originally Posted by Mfusick View Post

There was another mod somewhere that actually corrected what was wrong rather than covering it up

corrected what was wrong? in the crossover? the CD? what do you meant "covering it up"?
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post #7 of 24 Old 08-20-2013, 03:14 PM
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I don't think the polarity needs switched on these. Bill made a mistake by not listing the polarity switch in the schematic with the first Delta models and I will be contacting everyone once he double checks everything. The only kit I offer with that polarity switch from Bill is the Karma-12, and very few people ordered that speaker.

As he mentioned in the other thread, he was in the hospital and didn't have time to check his data on those first speakers. He will check them very soon though.

I have the original Cheap Thrills speaker and original crossover network and I'll check it out. For now, I would wire them up as the schematic shows.
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post #8 of 24 Old 08-20-2013, 04:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stumbo View Post

As far as power handling, they get painfully loud on just my receivers internal power (pioneer vsx-82txs, 130WPC), however I was able to push my IPR1600 to clipping with a 80hz filter, the speakers didn't flinch. its makes me wonder how far you can actually push these...

My Cheap Thrills blew up at 800watts RMS @ 8ohms in free-air after 19 seconds, as documented here.

That's a LOT of power.

As you can see... it was receiving physical damage at just 240w RMS@8. The IPR1600 probably isn't powerful enough, I guess.

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1476761/destruction-of-cheap-thrills-300w-15inch-mid-woofer-with-8000w-into-8-ohm

I think we should epoxy on some CF dust caps onto these mids to keep them from bending, from cats or high wattage. ROFL biggrin.gif
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post #9 of 24 Old 08-20-2013, 04:13 PM
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Originally Posted by BassThatHz View Post

My Cheap Thrills blew up at 800watts RMS @ 8ohms in free-air after 19 seconds, as documented here.

That's a LOT of power.

As you can see... it was receiving physical damage at just 240w RMS@8. The IPR1600 probably isn't powerful enough, I guess.

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1476761/destruction-of-cheap-thrills-300w-15inch-mid-woofer-with-8000w-into-8-ohm

I think we should epoxy on some CF dust caps onto these mids to keep them from bending, from cats or high wattage. ROFL biggrin.gif

Why would you run 8000 watts into them "free air" ? That makes no sense. It's funny to watch, and also funny to wonder why you did it.

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post #10 of 24 Old 08-20-2013, 05:41 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BassThatHz View Post

As you can see... it was receiving physical damage at just 240w RMS@8. The IPR1600 probably isn't powerful enough, I guess.

Stick em in a box, give them a HPF, and share some of the power with a compression driver... Should handle 240watts no problem wink.gif
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post #11 of 24 Old 08-21-2013, 05:21 PM
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Originally Posted by Erich H View Post

I don't think the polarity needs switched on these. Bill made a mistake by not listing the polarity switch in the schematic with the first Delta models and I will be contacting everyone once he double checks everything. The only kit I offer with that polarity switch from Bill is the Karma-12, and very few people ordered that speaker.

As he mentioned in the other thread, he was in the hospital and didn't have time to check his data on those first speakers. He will check them very soon though.

I have the original Cheap Thrills speaker and original crossover network and I'll check it out. For now, I would wire them up as the schematic shows.

Erich: To clarify, the original crossover for the Delta 12A's and 2512's located here: http://www.diysoundgroup.com/forum/index.php?topic=9.0 could potentially need the tweeter polarity reversed? I built mine with 12A's in July 2012, and they are absolutely phenomenal. However, I don't own measuring equipment so anything is possible. How did this error come to light?

Thanks.....


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post #12 of 24 Old 08-21-2013, 07:10 PM
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Originally Posted by zhillsguy View Post

Erich: To clarify, the original crossover for the Delta 12A's and 2512's located here: http://www.diysoundgroup.com/forum/index.php?topic=9.0 could potentially need the tweeter polarity reversed? I built mine with 12A's in July 2012, and they are absolutely phenomenal. However, I don't own measuring equipment so anything is possible. How did this error come to light?

Bill has been in the hospital, so once he's out we're going to go over his data. There was a forum member or 2 that switched polarity in the first Delta model that Bill made up and it tested better. This was the very first SEOS design made up. So there's a chance Bill didn't note to reverse the polarity on a design he openly posted to the public. Once it's figured out, I will be contacting everyone that ordered a compression driver, but not an actual kit just to see if they happened to built that model, or anyone that ordered the Deltalite model.
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post #13 of 24 Old 10-12-2013, 02:09 PM
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Originally Posted by Erich H View Post

I don't think the polarity needs switched on these. Bill made a mistake by not listing the polarity switch in the schematic with the first Delta models and I will be contacting everyone once he double checks everything. The only kit I offer with that polarity switch from Bill is the Karma-12, and very few people ordered that speaker.

Erich,

Was this every verified?
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post #14 of 24 Old 10-15-2013, 11:28 AM
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Originally Posted by Erich H View Post

Bill has been in the hospital, so once he's out we're going to go over his data. There was a forum member or 2 that switched polarity in the first Delta model that Bill made up and it tested better. This was the very first SEOS design made up. So there's a chance Bill didn't note to reverse the polarity on a design he openly posted to the public. Once it's figured out, I will be contacting everyone that ordered a compression driver, but not an actual kit just to see if they happened to built that model, or anyone that ordered the Deltalite model.

I have the Deltalites and would like an update on this as well.

Thanks.
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post #15 of 24 Old 10-15-2013, 04:32 PM
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MTG90 will be coming to Cincinnati in a week or two and we plan on building many of the speakers and testing them all on the same gear. We'll have a definite answer, and then I'll contact the people that ordered those kits.
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post #16 of 24 Old 12-25-2013, 05:52 PM - Thread Starter
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It's 4 months in, and I still love these speakers! I occasionally have a fleeting thought about building something bigger and better, then I watch a movie or listen to an album, and they never disappoint!
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post #17 of 24 Old 12-26-2013, 09:05 PM
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Mr. Stumbo, would you care to elaborate? I was curious how your were running them, 2.1, 5.1, stereo, etc. Your pics look like 2.0, but I thought maybe you added some other speakers. Do you listen loud, med, soft? Also, what do you like about the sound, highs, lows, mid-bass, punchy, accurate, voice, etc?

I have the drivers and XOs' to the CT set up in open air in a 2.0 setup, awaiting a box to put them in where they will be fronts in a 5.1 setup. Mine are starting to sound pretty good through the computer with a 15 watt amp, even though this is a less than ideal setup.

Symmetry pleases the eye, but it usually offends the ears where low frequencies are concerned. -Yoda Fitzmaurice
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post #18 of 24 Old 12-27-2013, 01:00 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by wvu80 View Post

Mr. Stumbo, would you care to elaborate? I was curious how your were running them, 2.1, 5.1, stereo, etc. Your pics look like 2.0, but I thought maybe you added some other speakers. Do you listen loud, med, soft? Also, what do you like about the sound, highs, lows, mid-bass, punchy, accurate, voice, etc?

I have the drivers and XOs' to the CT set up in open air in a 2.0 setup, awaiting a box to put them in where they will be fronts in a 5.1 setup. Mine are starting to sound pretty good through the computer with a 15 watt amp, even though this is a less than ideal setup.

I run mine 2.1, crossed at 80hz. 300 watts from a IPR1600. I listen loud, with a lot of bass from my subs.

I enjoy the effortless output they produce at what seems like any volume, I have yet to throw anything at them that they cannot belch out effortlessly. They don't have a lot of "character" like a lot of speakers, anything you give them is accurately produced. They do seem to sound better the harder I drive them, especially the mid bass.

The controlled directionality is critical because I listen in a non-treated room so any minimization of reflections makes them sound even better.
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post #19 of 24 Old 01-01-2014, 02:47 PM
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It's 4 months in, and I still love these speakers! I occasionally have a fleeting thought about building something bigger and better, then I watch a movie or listen to an album, and they never disappoint!

+1

After building the Cheap Thrills I considered building the AE TD15M/Seos12/Denovo 360 based on the reputation of the TD15M . I have added Fusion 8s as surrounds.

Been watching/listening to Crossroads 2013 Blu-ray with Cheap Thrills build today; sound is awesome. I am not left wanting. Almost feel like I stole these; they shouldn't sound this good for how little they cost. biggrin.gif
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post #20 of 24 Old 01-02-2014, 10:12 PM
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I watched Elysium last night on my Thrills, the part where they blow the doors of the Bugatti. BOOOOMMMM!!!!!!!! wink.gif
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post #21 of 24 Old 01-03-2014, 12:19 AM - Thread Starter
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I watched it last night, then again tonight with a stronger room curve. Did you find you needed to turn it up by about 10db?
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post #22 of 24 Old 01-03-2014, 01:17 AM
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I watched it last night, then again tonight with a stronger room curve. Did you find you needed to turn it up by about 10db?

I have 70db of gain above Reference Level (not including the amplifier knobs which might be a few more db's eek.gif).
Even on the absolute quietest movie ever recorded the whole history of MAN, I've NEVER used more than 38db ABOVE Reference.

Most are Reference Level + or - 10db.

I was playing it on VOD, not BR so it was just "regular" DD.5.1 not HD 7.1
I can't remember if I had to turn it up or not.

Every movie seems recorded at a different level these days (or for all time for that matter).
There should be a standard for movie volume encodings (like THX or something wink.gif )

It should be illegal to have vocals recorded at an average level of anything other than -20dFS, as it SHOULD be.
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post #23 of 24 Old 03-31-2014, 05:15 PM - Thread Starter
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Here they are today, I'm still crazy about them!



Cheap thrill + F20 + PN64F8500 makes for one hell of a living room theater!
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post #24 of 24 Old 03-31-2014, 05:18 PM - Thread Starter
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Coming soon! Matching low profile surrounds!
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