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post #1 of 36 Old 08-26-2013, 05:48 AM - Thread Starter
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I was wondering if I could get some guys using pro amps to answer a question for me about how loud they are before and/or after a fan mod. I read that they are almost silent, but silent for one might be loud for others.

Has anyone measured how loud they truly are? I wasn't able to find that info. The reason I ask is because I'd like to go with a pro amp due to cost but I want something that can't be heard from 1-2 feet away at any time.
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post #2 of 36 Old 08-26-2013, 06:09 AM
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I have an inuke, but have yet to plug it in (paint is drying on the subs as we type.)

One comment I will make in general, after replacing the built in fan with one of the popular replacement fans, I would also suggest that a person take off the wire protective screen (assuming one does not need the protective screen to keep little fingers and the like out of the fan blades.) They disrupt the airflow of those little muffin fans, reducing volume throughput as well as creating a source of added noise.

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post #3 of 36 Old 08-26-2013, 06:17 AM
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it would help if you narrowed it down a bit. Just saying 'they' in reference to all pro amps made is pretty broad. I run stock crown xls 1500's and they are silent...can't even tell when the fans cut in. My ep4000 on the other hand even with the fan mod is loud enough to hear across the room.

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post #4 of 36 Old 08-26-2013, 07:26 AM
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I couldn't pick up anything over ambient noise in my very quiet room with my db meter after my INuke fan mod. The fan I used doesn't move much air, but it is nearly silent.

My 100mm fan that I use to vent my 20ru a/v cabinet is barely audible if you stand next to the cabinet. It's louder than the amp. When the HVAC kicks in the air noise is slightly higher than the A/V cab fan. The projector's color wheel right over my head is the greatest source of noise in the room.


I measured 60db with the stock fan.

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post #5 of 36 Old 08-26-2013, 07:26 AM
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Stock EP4000s are very loud. Modded with a 19dB fan, they are still easily heard across the room. It's pretty quiet, but definitely noticeable. It's kind of irritating when nothing else is on. When actually playing even quiet content, they're not noticeable though.

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post #6 of 36 Old 08-26-2013, 08:53 AM
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The iNuke's will need to be fan modded. The Crown XLS and XTi are quiet as in an ear 6 inches away can't hear them under reasonable home listing levels. Any levels that would get the amp to kick the fan on and you wouldn't hear it anyways. The Peavey IPR is also low noise.

An audiophile likes to talk about how much they spent and how good it sounds.

A DIY'er likes to talk about how little they spent and how good it sounds.

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post #7 of 36 Old 08-26-2013, 12:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DotJun View Post

but silent for one might be loud for others.

.

^^This is the key phrase in your post.

I purchased a Behringer EP2500 a couple of years ago, did the fan mod and the very slight noise that still emanated from the new fan drove me nuts. I sit roughly 8-9 feet away and could not tolerate the sound. I even tried switching to a different manufactured low db fan and still no bueno. I sold the Behringer and picked up a Crown XLS Drivecore.

Only way to know for sure if the modded fan or original fan noise will be bothersome is to try it out first hand.
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post #8 of 36 Old 08-26-2013, 04:15 PM - Thread Starter
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I left the amp brand open so i could find out which ones were quieter than others.

It seems that the behringers operate at a higher fan curve. Have any of you attempted to use a non pwm fan on them?

I currently use noctua 120mm fans at 800rpm. That's about the level of silence I go for in all my devices. I don't use a projector for several reasons and noise would be one of them.
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post #9 of 36 Old 08-26-2013, 04:46 PM
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the clones are really loud. I have them in a separate room and I can still hear them lol

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post #10 of 36 Old 08-27-2013, 05:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DotJun View Post

Have any of you attempted to use a non pwm fan on them?

My gear is in a room separate from the theater. I don't envision swapping fans.

FWIW, be careful picking fans to swap. If a certain amp comes with a certain fan, don't swap it out with one that only moves 1/4 the airflow just because the new fan is well known for being quiet.

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post #11 of 36 Old 08-27-2013, 05:42 AM - Thread Starter
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Yea I don't have the option that most of you have. Being from SoCal, my available space is quite limited so it ends up being in the living room. Reason why I'm looking for a silent solution.

Someone said the crown amps are silent. Anyone know what makes them un-detectable when other amps seem loud enough to hear from anger room?
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post #12 of 36 Old 08-27-2013, 07:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Suntan View Post

FWIW, be careful picking fans to swap. If a certain amp comes with a certain fan, don't swap it out with one that only moves 1/4 the airflow just because the new fan is well known for being quiet.

-Suntan

The EP series, which is class A/B, may need more fan. I'm not making recommendations on that series, but...

Class D doesn't produce much heat. Behringer, I suspect, puts too much fan on their amps so that they don't have to build an active system that senses temp and adjusts the fan. It seems to be load based with only 2 settings on the INuke. The lowest, always on setting is way overkill and is what gives these amps the rep for being loud.

Indoors, and assuming the air in your cabinet can circulate, the fan swap is not an issue on an Inuke. I've been running mine with a wimpy fan for a year at dual 2 ohm, playing loud for hours at a time and the case doesn't even get warm.

Crown is a better brand though and probably controls their fans the right way.
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post #13 of 36 Old 08-27-2013, 09:18 AM
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Quote:
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...Indoors, and assuming the air in your cabinet can circulate...

Big assumptions you're making for other people.

In any case, all I'm saying is, use some common sense. Don't get led into making a bad choice for your specific application just because you read other people doing it on the internet. Do a google search for "Silent Case Fans" and you get over 20 million hits. Not all of those are going to apply.

Can a guy get a slow/low cfm case fan and then undervolt it to 6V to make it even more silent? Yes, and you can find umpteen thousand howtos about it on the net. Is it a good idea for that guy's particular needs? Possibly not.

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post #14 of 36 Old 08-27-2013, 09:25 AM
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Big assumptions you're making for other people.

Not really a big assumption for the DIY section of a home theater forum. My AVR puts out much more heat than the INuke, so if you are using this for an indoor home theater you already need an a/v cab than can circulate air, either with a fan or with convection. All I'm saying is that a low volume fan mod obviously wouldn't be a good idea for outdoor, summer heat, pro-audio.

In any case, I'm just throwing out some personal experience to keep the discussion going.
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post #15 of 36 Old 08-27-2013, 12:44 PM
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Originally Posted by DotJun View Post

Someone said the crown amps are silent. Anyone know what makes them un-detectable when other amps seem loud enough to hear from anger room?

Crown XLS Drivecore series amps are class D. They are much more efficient and consume less power than class A/B. They don't produce as much heat, therefore don't necessarily need the cooling that class A/B amps need.
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post #16 of 36 Old 08-28-2013, 01:48 AM - Thread Starter
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Crown XLS Drivecore series amps are class D. They are much more efficient and consume less power than class A/B. They don't produce as much heat, therefore don't necessarily need the cooling that class A/B amps need.
So would you say a well built class D pro amp is virtually silent?
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post #17 of 36 Old 08-28-2013, 04:49 AM
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So would you say a well built class D pro amp is virtually silent?
It is not the "class" but how it is used-the intended application and so forth.

Yes class D produces very little heat-but there are different "classes" of class D.

An amp consists of 2 parts- the amp itself and the power supply. How the power supply is designed can make a difference.

Also the intended usage. Typical pro usage requires much longer duty cycles-more heating-higher ambient temps (think outside on a hot sunny day) and so forth.

An amp designed for that type of usage will have a plan for better air flow management than one intended for home usage.


The amp itself my be identical-but the air management can be totally different.

A class D with a decent size heat sink (still very small compared class A/B of the same wattage), will be totally (or pretty close-depending on the switching design of the power supply) quiet (in terms of physical noise).

The big thing class D offers is high output. But what sort of a market (real market) is there in home usage? I think most manufacturers are going after the guys who buy lots of amps-the pro guys-who don't care so much about fan noise-as nobody is close to the amps-or if they are-they don't really care.

YES there are exceptions-for quieter shows-but those are the exception-rather than the "rule".

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post #18 of 36 Old 08-28-2013, 05:28 AM
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So would you say a well built class D pro amp is virtually silent?

No. The INuke series is class D pro amp and it's a virtual jet engine. It doesn't need to be this way for home theater or studio usage, however, as Ivan has elaborated in detail, it was designed and marketed to a different type of user. That's why we mod it.

If you don't want to mod, which is totally understandable, then the Crown's are a more quiet option.
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post #19 of 36 Old 08-28-2013, 11:00 AM - Thread Starter
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Thanks guys, this was a very informative discussion for me.
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post #20 of 36 Old 08-28-2013, 02:17 PM
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No. The INuke series is class D pro amp and it's a virtual jet engine. It doesn't need to be this way for home theater or studio usage, however, as Ivan has elaborated in detail, it was designed and marketed to a different type of user. That's why we mod it.

If you don't want to mod, which is totally understandable, then the Crown's are a more quiet option.

Behringer decided to cheap out. There is virtually no heatsinking in their iNuke(s). Pull the cover off and iNuke and XLS drivecore and you can see the better engineered product clearly.

An audiophile likes to talk about how much they spent and how good it sounds.

A DIY'er likes to talk about how little they spent and how good it sounds.

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post #21 of 36 Old 08-28-2013, 04:02 PM
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Behringer decided to cheap out. There is virtually no heatsinking in their iNuke(s). Pull the cover off and iNuke and XLS drivecore and you can see the better engineered product clearly.

I believe that the bottom of the AL case acts as the heatsink. You are correct that the crown > behringer though. I don't even need to open the case. wink.gif
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post #22 of 36 Old 08-28-2013, 06:27 PM
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No, the bottom on the Behringer isn't the heat sink. They use some extremely crude folded metal (U shaped) pieces that the output transistors are soldered to. They are barely heatsinks. Look at the four copper squares. That's it.


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post #23 of 36 Old 08-28-2013, 06:42 PM
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What the heck do you expect for $450? They are great amp for the money. I've not heard of anyone having problems with one. With all the ep2500/4000/inuke 3000/6000's out there, you vary rarely hear of them having issues.
I have a 6000 and hammer on it quite a bit, works great.

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post #24 of 36 Old 08-28-2013, 07:19 PM
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Quote:
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Quote:
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Behringer decided to cheap out. There is virtually no heatsinking in their iNuke(s). Pull the cover off and iNuke and XLS drivecore and you can see the better engineered product clearly.

It looks to me like Crown is using the same scheme with the XLS series as they do with the XTi series, which is to build a number of amps with vastly different power output capabilities that are mecanically identical. This carries with it the implication that the less powerful models are overbuilt.

The iNuke series seems to be coming out piecemeal so its hard to find what all of the models in the line look like. The pictures I see are iNuke 1000 which is the baby (actually about 150-200 watts into 8 ohms), and the iNuke 6000 which appears to be the current the top of the line. They mechanically are very different. It is possible that next amp up from the iNuke 2000 will be a unique design, as well.
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post #25 of 36 Old 08-28-2013, 08:09 PM
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No, the bottom on the Behringer isn't the heat sink. They use some extremely crude folded metal (U shaped) pieces that the output transistors are soldered to. They are barely heatsinks. Look at the four copper squares. That's it.


You are right. I forgot about the copper things.
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post #26 of 36 Old 08-28-2013, 08:37 PM
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I utilize 3 QSC amps in my system. GX-3 GX-5 and a RMX1850. Before the fan mod they sounded like a prop jet. Now two of the three are silent. One is barely audible from 2ft away. Used the same fan in all three. For a relative frame of reference my room is very quiet. Double drywall, 3 of the four walls are concrete, all insulated.
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post #27 of 36 Old 08-28-2013, 09:25 PM - Thread Starter
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I utilize 3 QSC amps in my system. GX-3 GX-5 and a RMX1850. Before the fan mod they sounded like a prop jet. Now two of the three are silent. One is barely audible from 2ft away. Used the same fan in all three. For a relative frame of reference my room is very quiet. Double drywall, 3 of the four walls are concrete, all insulated.
Thank you. For reference can you tell me which fans you went with?
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post #28 of 36 Old 08-29-2013, 06:36 AM
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What the heck do you expect for $450? They are great amp for the money. I've not heard of anyone having problems with one. With all the ep2500/4000/inuke 3000/6000's out there, you vary rarely hear of them having issues.
I have a 6000 and hammer on it quite a bit, works great.

I would gladly pay another $20 if Behringer would put $5 of heatsink and PWM fan in their units.

An audiophile likes to talk about how much they spent and how good it sounds.

A DIY'er likes to talk about how little they spent and how good it sounds.

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post #29 of 36 Old 08-29-2013, 06:56 AM
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Why does no one mention Yamaha pro amps? The fans only kick in under very extreme situations if ever at all. Buy one and be done with the silly jet engine noises.
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post #30 of 36 Old 08-29-2013, 07:35 AM
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Thank you. For reference can you tell me which fans you went with?

http://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/3110SB-05W-B20-E00/P14751-ND/2615564
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