1k tower to seos tempest/zephyr - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 13 Old 08-26-2013, 08:36 PM - Thread Starter
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Wondering if someone has gone from a good(relative term) pair of towers say
Emptek , focal, b &w , arx , or something else to a seos build and if so what were the differences ?
Could.also be a nice bookshelf as well.
Thinking of making the alpha zephyr . I am happy with my tekton lores but curious about diy. Would.be for 80% movies in a medium/large room.
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post #2 of 13 Old 08-27-2013, 12:50 PM
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I went from the EMPtek EF-30Ts to my SEOS 12/Delta 12LFAs..... My EMPteks are for sale in the classifieds......rolleyes.gif

The EMPs were very good, and very smooth. The SPL capability of the SEOS speakers, their controlled directivity, and off axis performance are where they shine over the EMPS.

Just my 0.02.
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post #3 of 13 Old 08-27-2013, 01:20 PM
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I went from B&W N803's to SEOS 12's and it was an improvement in every possible way... however, I had to implement an active crossover upstream and apply some EQ to make it sound that way.

Out of the box without all that, it was still damn-good, most people probably wouldn't even notice the difference between how I run it and the default; mostly because I'm 90% music. The exact opposite of you.

It also goes WAY louder, in both treble and bass, while consuming less power.
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post #4 of 13 Old 08-27-2013, 01:40 PM
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I have Revel F12's that I run in the living room and my SEOS Sentinels stomped those out pretty good. I only kept the Revels and sold the Sent's because the living room has some waf needed and I am building the SEOSR for the HT. The Fusions were really good right off of a Denon 4520, but roared somethin' fierce when I put 500w to each of them biggrin.gif


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post #5 of 13 Old 08-27-2013, 02:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BassThatHz View Post

I went from B&W N803's to SEOS 12's and it was an improvement in every possible way... however, I had to implement an active crossover upstream and apply some EQ to make it sound that way.

Outerwear of the box without all that, it was still damn-good, most people probably wouldn't even notice the difference between how I run it and the default; mostly because I'm 90% music. The exact opposite of you.

It also goes WAY louder, in both treble and bass, while consuming less power.

How is the treble better ? Smoother less fatigued ? Bass tighter or deeper ?
Can you give any examples of songs that really stood out ?
Thanks
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post #6 of 13 Old 08-29-2013, 01:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chalugadp View Post

How is the treble better ? Smoother less fatigued ? Bass tighter or deeper ?
Can you give any examples of songs that really stood out ?
Thanks

Here is how I see it.
There are pros and cons to the design.

Pros:
#1 Their primary advantage is greater SPL without blowing and/or distorting at those levels.
Great for loud hard rock music and movie surprise scenes (the old cat-in-the-closet trick has never sounded more scary biggrin.gif).
If you level matched them or didn't need beyond 100db, the differences would be even smaller. (Which is amazing given the price difference.)

#2 They can be placed wider apart without losing the stereo imagining, in my room they are spaced 18ft apart and could probably do more, where as the B&W's didn't like being more than 9ft apart.

#3 Narrower dispersion window with minimal room interactions (this could be good or bad, depending on how you see it.)

#4 They seems to handle harmonic instruments better: cellos, pianos, xylophones, tubular bells etc.

Cons:
#1 They need treble equalization to sound as good.
Performance in non-active systems will suffer.

I find that the horns are rather insensitive to the higher frequencies, especially above 3khz; (either that or it's struggling to couple with my room well.)
To my ears this causes the SEOS to lose the small details that are typically associated with "Hi-Fi" systems.

This tends to make the SEOS sound thin at lower db's (<90db), but not unpleasant to the average-joe (which is the kicker), and at higher db's it makes the <3khz range excessively out of balance, which the average-joe may see this out-of-balanced-sound as "ramps up to 'loud' quickly", when in fact it's not, it's just out of balance.

In short, "clouded" would be the word I would describe it as.

Once EQ'ed this is not a problem (but it is if you don't).

#2 Even with EQ, not all of the details are fully recovered about ~0.5% loss IMO.

#3 Listeners outside the dispersion window will suffer to a greater extent if a wide positioning cannot be implemented.


Overall:

Once eq'ed, the sound is less fatiguing, more dynamic & louder, and has greater overall transparency than the B&W's (in 99.5% of the cases).

Without eq, I would say that it looses, and is not an enjoyable speaker for music to listen to.
I never thought I'd say that because I despise EQ, and would like to avoid it at all costs. There is probably a way to tweak the XO for pure-analog to achieve the same, beyond me.
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post #7 of 13 Old 08-29-2013, 02:18 PM
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Exactly what I was looking for !
Thanks bass !!!!!
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post #8 of 13 Old 08-29-2013, 02:48 PM
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Also worth mentioning is that a SEOS speaker is not really a SEOS at all.... The SEOS waveguide is just a part of the speaker, the other parts: woofer, CD, and crossover also play into the "sound" of the speaker.

Furthermore, the voicing of the speaker will also have a huge impact on how the speaker sounds. Some designers like to have a downward slope of the upper octaves, some shoot for a ruler flat response. There are numerous other traits of speaker design which also play into the "sound" which are beyond flat Frequency Reaponse.

I will say this, my speakers were designed with a ~3db roll off up to their upper range ~18-19kHz. When stuff blows up, crackles or explodes im glad for that roll off. Honestly I find them bright due to the fact that the measly dome tweeters never produced 100db at the LP. Its a different sound, not what your use to.

Look at the different designs and designers. For Example the Bagby designs mostly are ruler flat, as well as most the others. The Bwaslo designs for the most part have a slight roll-off of the tweeter.

It depends a lot on taste. Eapecially for music I like the highs to be laid back. However my brother likes his highs hotter than me, he likes a strong sizzle on the high hats and symbols which would send me running for the remote.
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post #9 of 13 Old 08-29-2013, 03:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NicksHitachi View Post

Also worth mentioning is that a SEOS speaker is not really a SEOS at all.... The SEOS waveguide is just a part of the speaker, the other parts: woofer, CD, and crossover also play into the "sound" of the speaker.

Furthermore, the voicing of the speaker will also have a huge impact on how the speaker sounds. Some designers like to have a downward slope of the upper octaves, some shoot for a ruler flat response. There are numerous other traits of speaker design which also play into the "sound" which are beyond flat Frequency Reaponse.

I will say this, my speakers were designed with a ~3db roll off up to their upper range ~18-19kHz. When stuff blows up, crackles or explodes im glad for that roll off. Honestly I find them bright due to the fact that the measly dome tweeters never produced 100db at the LP. Its a different sound, not what your use to.

Look at the different designs and designers. For Example the Bagby designs mostly are ruler flat, as well as most the others. The Bwaslo designs for the most part have a slight roll-off of the tweeter.

It depends a lot on taste. Eapecially for music I like the highs to be laid back. However my brother likes his highs hotter than me, he likes a strong sizzle on the high hats and symbols which would send me running for the remote.

Thanks for intelligent reply biggrin.gif

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post #10 of 13 Old 08-29-2013, 05:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NicksHitachi View Post

Also worth mentioning is that a SEOS speaker is not really a SEOS at all.... The SEOS waveguide is just a part of the speaker, the other parts: woofer, CD, and crossover also play into the "sound" of the speaker.

Furthermore, the voicing of the speaker will also have a huge impact on how the speaker sounds. Some designers like to have a downward slope of the upper octaves, some shoot for a ruler flat response. There are numerous other traits of speaker design which also play into the "sound" which are beyond flat Frequency Reaponse.

I will say this, my speakers were designed with a ~3db roll off up to their upper range ~18-19kHz. When stuff blows up, crackles or explodes im glad for that roll off. Honestly I find them bright due to the fact that the measly dome tweeters never produced 100db at the LP. Its a different sound, not what your use to.

Look at the different designs and designers. For Example the Bagby designs mostly are ruler flat, as well as most the others. The Bwaslo designs for the most part have a slight roll-off of the tweeter.

It depends a lot on taste. Eapecially for music I like the highs to be laid back. However my brother likes his highs hotter than me, he likes a strong sizzle on the high hats and symbols which would send me running for the remote.

Great post. Hopefully most people realize that.

I had some speakers from Unisound that Zaph later did a crossover tweak on. The Vifa tweeter was bright....completely due to the original speaker designer. But my dad thought they were great. I thought they were a bit bright. I have an old vintage Pioneer that has a switch to pull down the highs and it worked quite well.....to me. My dad still preferred them with the extra 'sizzle'.


I have Jeff Bagby's Fusion-8 on my computer desk and listen to it quite often. The compression driver is only about 4' away and it sounds smoother than that Vifa dome tweeter did in my Unisounds.

Most people will like a speaker with a little EQ added in somewhere to fit what they like the best. That's why they make treble, mid, and bass adjustments in receivers, radios, iPods, computers, etc.


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Twelve 10" NHT subwoofer build.
Cloning of a NHT VR-3.
2 ACI 15" subwoofers.

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post #11 of 13 Old 08-29-2013, 07:08 PM
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Here's some abby master cello stuff playing on my SEOS's with 10600watts, with an additional 16200watts of subwoofer bass.



I just love this cello. I could listen to those same strings on repeat for days.

Too bad my camera mic can't handle the SPL LOL LOL. biggrin.gif

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post #12 of 13 Old 08-29-2013, 09:41 PM
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If you were to build a set of of SEOS style speakers using a higher end CD and mid do you think that you would regain the detail you are missing; or possibly improve over your original pair of speakers? I know that the DNA-360 us supposed to be similar to a DE250 but after running a pair of ID mini bodies + DE500 in my car I doubt that they are quite as detailed. The reason I ask is that I have a pair of Parker audio 98s that I built about 10 years ago and I have yet to find a DIY speaker in the $1000 price range that can come close in imaging, sound stage and detail. I have been eyeballing waveguide speakers as being a possible contender to replace them.
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post #13 of 13 Old 08-30-2013, 06:59 AM
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Of course there are better compression drivers out there that might be more apt at creating more detail. I would guess that a Radian 950PB with a Be diaphragm would most likely sound terrific, and would also be a huge step up from the DNA-360, only problem is that it cost $400 for the driver and double that for the diaphragm!
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