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post #61 of 89 Old 09-12-2013, 08:18 PM - Thread Starter
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Scott> The build is looking and shaping up great, Steve! Can't wait to see your master veneer work when it's all done.

Thanks Scott but no way, the things I learn each time. The veneer bit the dust in one spot, top left front, but oh well. I think that will be covered anyway. All I had was walnut filler so that’s the spot you see. I blame the edger (hand tool) not me. I’ll say it for you.. pompous arrs! The router works good for trim but that can bite you too. I was very Thankful I found a trim bit to do the driver circles or I would have been in deep doo-doo. The bit I had extended just a shade past a 1/2” (not good) so off I went digging. The one I found just made it.
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Good progress there Steve. I wish I could move that fast with a sub project. It took me 8 months to build the boxes for my 2 18s.

The HD in Astoria is pretty nice. I'm out in Astoria every weekend during the month of Auguast, every year. Gotta love that Bouy 10 fishery.

On another note, if you ever decide to let go of the SDX 15s give me a holler. I lost hopes of the SDX15 MKII coming to life. The awsome Bose system that came with installed and pre-wired in my new house is craptacular, I'll be looking to switch that system out sometime in the near future.

Thanks thucker, eight months huh! Well that’s ok, plod nice and slow and have fun when you feel like it.. nothing wrong with that. Those two 18”s are going to be nice though! Hey have you ever ate at Buoy 9 in Hammond? It’s a great place if you get a chance, close to HD.
Sell the 15” SDX? lol Thanks for the offer but that’s one of my keepers, especially now that the new 15” wont be happening. If I ever get dire I’ll keep you in mind though. Looking forward to your impressions of your new setup when it works out. mmm bose that WAF option? I don’t think your new 18”s are going to have much in common, be prepared. smile.gif

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post #62 of 89 Old 09-12-2013, 11:19 PM
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Thanks Scott but no way, the things I learn each time. The veneer bit the dust in one spot, top left front, but oh well. I think that will be covered anyway. All I had was walnut filler so that’s the spot you see. I blame the edger (hand tool) not me. I’ll say it for you.. pompous arrs! The router works good for trim but that can bite you too. I was very Thankful I found a trim bit to do the driver circles or I would have been in deep doo-doo. The bit I had extended just a shade past a 1/2” (not good) so off I went digging. The one I found just made it.
Thanks thucker, eight months huh! Well that’s ok, plod nice and slow and have fun when you feel like it.. nothing wrong with that. Those two 18”s are going to be nice though! Hey have you ever ate at Buoy 9 in Hammond? It’s a great place if you get a chance, close to HD.
Sell the 15” SDX? lol Thanks for the offer but that’s one of my keepers, especially now that the new 15” wont be happening. If I ever get dire I’ll keep you in mind though. Looking forward to your impressions of your new setup when it works out. mmm bose that WAF option? I don’t think your new 18”s are going to have much in common, be prepared. smile.gif

It's funny that you mentioned Bouy 9. We stayed at the South Jetty Inn every weekend in August. We'd wake up and walk over to Bouy 9 for breakfast, go fishing during the day, hit the bar across the street before going back to the hotel, then repeat.

I love building things, but I usually work until 6 everyday and get stuck with some kind of house duty when I get home. I sneak an hour or two of wood working here and there.my project is going to be a set of SEOS speakers...... We'll see how long that takes.tongue.gif

The Bose system came with the house, already wired into the walls of the living room. We had a system at the old house and moved it into a dedicated room of the new house. The lady chucked when she saw the Bose compared to the tower speakers we have. Somehow she grew fond of them and now think they are cute, and doesn't stand out rolleyes.gifrolleyes.gif
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post #63 of 89 Old 09-13-2013, 08:23 AM - Thread Starter
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It's funny that you mentioned Bouy 9. We stayed at the South Jetty Inn every weekend in August. We'd wake up and walk over to Bouy 9 for breakfast, go fishing during the day, hit the bar across the street before going back to the hotel, then repeat.

I love building things, but I usually work until 6 everyday and get stuck with some kind of house duty when I get home. I sneak an hour or two of wood working here and there.my project is going to be a set of SEOS speakers...... We'll see how long that takes.tongue.gif

The Bose system came with the house, already wired into the walls of the living room. We had a system at the old house and moved it into a dedicated room of the new house. The lady chucked when she saw the Bose compared to the tower speakers we have. Somehow she grew fond of them and now think they are cute, and doesn't stand out rolleyes.gifrolleyes.gif

Uh you must be talking salmon fishing, cool. We let one go the other day and then found out that it was alright to keep it. The guidelines change on a daily basis as you know and it’s hard to keep up with if you don’t check daily. rolleyes.gif If you find yourself at B 9 next year I suggest you try their primrib they offer on Fri and Sat night, or oysters if you like them?

That’s a funny Bose story, WAF, lol. Every now and then I find myself in front of one and find it a little trying keeping my yap shut! Especially when the gal or guy starts bragging! I just checked out the SEOS line more and they look great imo, got to love them horns. Hope they work out for you. If I ever were to take on a speaker build that would be a very worthy speaker build from what I hear. cool.gif Which ones did you decide to go with if you don’t mind me asking?

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post #64 of 89 Old 09-13-2013, 10:33 AM
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Uh you must be talking salmon fishing, cool. We let one go the other day and then found out that it was alright to keep it. The guidelines change on a daily basis as you know and it’s hard to keep up with if you don’t check daily. rolleyes.gif If you find yourself at B 9 next year I suggest you try their primrib they offer on Fri and Sat night, or oysters if you like them?

That’s a funny Bose story, WAF, lol. Every now and then I find myself in front of one and find it a little trying keeping my yap shut! Especially when the gal or guy starts bragging! I just checked out the SEOS line more and they look great imo, got to love them horns. Hope they work out for you. If I ever were to take on a speaker build that would be a very worthy speaker build from what I hear. cool.gif Which ones did you decide to go with if you don’t mind me asking?

Yes, salmon fishing. I'm an avid fisherman and usually go out there with my buddies in a big bright blue River Wild sled, I'm only Asian guy on the boat. Stop by and say Hi if you see us out there.

I'm leaning towards the Dayton Designer12 SEOS speaker build. I've considered all the other designers too, but from what I read and the feedback from the designer pushed me towards this design.
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post #65 of 89 Old 09-13-2013, 11:06 AM
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Yes i am in portland oregon. Since you mentioned aastoria i called my buddy up there. Heading out to crab this weekend.

Nice looking veneer

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post #66 of 89 Old 09-13-2013, 01:23 PM - Thread Starter
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Yes i am in portland oregon. Since you mentioned aastoria i called my buddy up there. Heading out to crab this weekend.

Nice looking veneer

Posted reply in your thread. wink.gif

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post #67 of 89 Old 09-13-2013, 10:42 PM - Thread Starter
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Yes, salmon fishing. I'm an avid fisherman and usually go out there with my buddies in a big bright blue River Wild sled, I'm only Asian guy on the boat. Stop by and say Hi if you see us out there.

I'm leaning towards the Dayton Designer12 SEOS speaker build. I've considered all the other designers too, but from what I read and the feedback from the designer pushed me towards this design.

Will do! I’ll look for the Asian guy on the river wild. Could you wear a red cap that says AVS on it just in case? biggrin.gif That’s great on the speakers, bet they will sound nice if that’s what you go with.

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post #68 of 89 Old 09-14-2013, 05:14 PM - Thread Starter
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I origanly was going to go with some black paint mixed with stain and then decided not to even though I knew the possibility of the veneer lifting. Me being me I went for it and guess what? yeah I got bubbles lol. Ok so what do I do to save this build? I’m going to take a piece of 1/8 and redo it. Anyway so I get down to loading the driver, oh dear. Since I went narrower than suggested and the magnet flares like it does, the diver backs up against the PR’s. I thought I had things measured out too, but admitedly did not take the time that I should have. If this would have been one of my earlier builds this never would have happened. With out trying to come across as cocky or anything, familiarity got the best of me. Reduced down that means poor planning. Ok so now what do I do? Move the PR’s out to flush or the driver beyond flush? I decided on the driver. This is going to be a funny looking sub before it’s over. lol I have part C and D to the baffle drying now. This (Little Rebel Rouser) keeps growing. biggrin.gif








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post #69 of 89 Old 09-15-2013, 08:38 AM - Thread Starter
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For now I decided to go with this. I decided against rounding over the seat and went with the blocked look. The light plays a few tricks but all in all it should be just fine in the bedroom. I had a little bleed, a few bubbles on top and the baffle issue. All in all a pretty fun build and more confirmation on a few things a guy should and shouldn’t do. Oh! and always factor in 12” SDX magnet flare. smile.gif My 15” doesn’t have it. I wanted to push the size a little bit with opting for not incorporating the amp since it’s simmed at a 1000w wink.gif and it made the sub come in on the lighter side as our DIY subs go. With a 40lb driver it still has some heft to it though, but much lighter considering no MDF and 22lb plate.

Now lets see how this guy sounds and what spl capabilities it has along with extension. The SPA and tune will limit it, but if it will do good down to 15-17hz I’ll be very pleased. I’ll post some graphs at a latter date..

I would like to Thank LTD for his help in double checking simming for me and on the side concerning other designs. If you come along Scott, I decided to give you a break this time around lol. cool.gif I never have taken the time to learn that part of building a sub which I know I should. You guys seem to enjoy it! I was like 30 or so before we received our first computer, so certain aspects don’t come as easy to me as they might to others, maybe not? Anyway I love this hobby and it’s nice to have this outlet to share and get advice when needed.. not to mention playing around with others that enjoy this hobby also.







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post #70 of 89 Old 09-15-2013, 09:16 AM
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Looks good! It would be kind of hard to put a grill over it tho...tongue.gif

Need a beta tester? wink.gif
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post #71 of 89 Old 09-15-2013, 10:21 AM - Thread Starter
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Looks good! It would be kind of hard to put a grill over it tho...tongue.gif

Need a beta tester? wink.gif

Hey bass-o-ramma, lol. Yeah I took a grill out there this morning and I don’t like the look, so no use building one to fit.I think a full grill would be ok though. Beta sounds good! Bass!.. have mic/meter will travel. biggrin.gif

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post #72 of 89 Old 09-16-2013, 07:20 AM
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Well how does it sound? smile.gif
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post #73 of 89 Old 09-16-2013, 09:01 AM - Thread Starter
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Well how does it sound? smile.gif

I don’t want to be premature, but when I get it up there and have a few days with it I’ll be sure to let you know. I wish I could tell you now though. cool.gif

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post #74 of 89 Old 09-18-2013, 05:02 AM
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Waiting for the FR and listening impressions......cool.gif

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post #75 of 89 Old 09-18-2013, 06:09 PM - Thread Starter
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Waiting for the FR and listening impressions......cool.gif

Hi Brave.. The sub sounds absolutely awesome, everything I was hoping it would. I watched OBLIVION today with around 110dB peaks and no strain what so ever. It Keeps it’s composure on all material so far and the SQ is as good as I have ever heard with vented, no exaggeration. I have the EP running it at this time with no dsp and I’m basically +-3.5 100dB from 14 to 80hz. I noticed after I took a break from the forum a few years that guys were building subs out of all kinds of material so I decided to try something different myself along with a PR design. No problem, the sub is lighter, smaller, good extension coupled with great output and SQ. I expect even more after it breaks in but not that I will notice?? The 12” SDX is a real delight as it should be. No it’s not your typical bang for your buck driver, but then maybe it is depending how you look at it.. SQ-dB for the $$. Anyway I’m very impressed! This is’nt my first DIY/B&M or ID sub, so I would like to think I know a little about good bass when I hear it. I hope to have a graph or two up pretty soon along with some more time with it. Flight of the Phoenix is next on the agenda, I know that movie good. I’m in a 25 X 12’ room with a 6 1/2’ ceiling that drifts down to 3’ and then straight down.. like a army tent. So the room comes in around 900 or so cu ft. Not large by any means. Because of the shape the size doesn’t work against me like a small square room would. Anyway this sub would do just fine in a much larger room as far as single subs go.. that’s not to say two or three wouldn’t be better to smooth things out if a guy is so inclined. Nice job CSS on another great driver the 12" SDX presents. cool.gif

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post #76 of 89 Old 09-18-2013, 07:35 PM
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Good job and it looks like a fun one to build. Not your typical setup being a passive r. design. Hell i barely know what PR is. biggrin.gif

Looks like you made the best of your boo boo. I don't think it looks bad at all. Different yes, but bad..... no way. Makes me feel better about my night. rolleyes.gif

Oh ya.... glad it sounds good too. smile.gif

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post #77 of 89 Old 09-18-2013, 11:37 PM - Thread Starter
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Hey Pd.. here is a explanation that covers the PR option fairly well. What it basically comes down to is a guy can tune a smaller enclosure lower with PR’s. Going with reg porting would not work because of the length required and air flow. Some feel the PR design if done correctly aids in SQ over the conventional route because of a couple different reasons. Here is a short but good discussion regarding the subject. http://techtalk.parts-express.com/showthread.php?206320-Subwoofer-preferences-Passive-Radiator-or-Ported From my listening experience so far I would sort of equate it as between conventional venting and sealed coupled with dsp. My dual sealed option with the BASSIS I find no fault. Take away dsp/BASSIS, to me sealed looses it’s attraction. Anyway Don’t get me wrong, I’m not saying this will compete with a big-block 18” in a large enclosure spl wise.. I could pull 3-6 slugs out of each PR for a little higher tune and get more out of it if I wanted to and still have a good tune of around 18-19hz I would think though.

Hope you didn’t make a boo-boo also? eek.gif If so, you will make it right I’m sure. Since this woofer will be one of my keepers, I’ll most likely ad another layer on the front and make things right. I think I’ll loose the black top also and make it the same as the front. wink.gif



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Passive radiator (speaker)


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Passive radiator enclosure with front mounted passive radiator; back or side mounting is also used
A speaker enclosure using a passive radiator usually contains an "active driver" (or main driver), and a passive radiator (also known as a "drone cone"). The active driver is a regular driver, and the passive is typically the same or similar, but without a voice coil and magnet assembly. It is only a suspended cone, not attached to a voice coil or electrical circuit. The passive radiator usually has some means to adjust its mass, thereby allowing the speaker designer to change the box tuning. Internal air pressure produced by movements of the active driver cone moves the passive radiator cone as well.

Passive radiators are used instead of a reflex port for much the same reasons—to tune the small volume and driver for better low frequency performance. Especially in situations in which a port would be inconveniently sized (usually too long for practical box configurations). They are also used to eliminate port turbulence and reduce motion compression caused by high velocity airflow in small ports (especially small diameter ones). Passive radiators are tuned by mass variations (Mmp), changing the way their compliance interacts with motion of the air in the box. The weight of the cone of the passive radiator should be approximately equivalent to the mass of the air that would have filled the port which might have been used for that design. Passive radiators do not behave exactly as do (more or less) equivalent bass-reflex designs in that they cause a notch in system frequency response at the PR's free air resonant frequency; this causes a steeper roll-off below the system's tuned frequency Fb, and poorer transient response. Due to the lack of vent turbulence and vent pipe resonances, many prefer the sound of PRs to reflex ports. PR speakers, however, are more complex to design and likely to be more expensive as compared to standard reflex enclosures.

The frequency response of a passive radiator will be similar to that of a ported cabinet, with two exceptions. The system low frequency roll-off in a passive radiator design will be slightly steeper, and will have a notch (dip) in frequency response due to the Vas (compliance, or stiffness of the speaker cone) of the passive radiator. The goal in designing a passive radiator is to adjust the tuning so that this notch is below audible levels.




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post #78 of 89 Old 09-19-2013, 04:23 AM
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I have the EP running it at this time with no dsp and I’m basically +-3.5 100dB from 14 to 80hz.

How do I know if you are within +/-3dB? But I think I know and you know that biggrin.gif

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post #79 of 89 Old 09-19-2013, 06:01 AM - Thread Starter
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^^ That you do! wink.gif Here is a graph that Braveheart put together for me since he had pity on my graph making skills. Graph extraordinaire I’m not! Although this sub measures very flat, this room has to play a big part in it. I never have had it so good freq response/plot period. I did do it at a little higher level than normal but either than that this is what she wrote. Thanks again Brave! On the graph the plot represents one Hz increments from 12-20hz, so that dip is vary narrow, I doubt even noticeable. A 3dB push with the SPA might fix it though?


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post #80 of 89 Old 09-19-2013, 07:06 AM
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wink.gif

I don't think you need any EQ with that response whatsoever; just let it rip raw and um sure it will sound as fantastic as the FR shows.

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post #81 of 89 Old 09-19-2013, 07:25 AM - Thread Starter
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^^^ Yeah if this was a bigger room I very well might tune it a little higher for more headroom? all it takes is removing a few slugs/washers. The PR’s look a little funky having the option on the outside but their functionality can’t be beat! Just about as easy as removing a port bung. smile.gif

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post #82 of 89 Old 09-19-2013, 07:43 AM - Thread Starter
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From the reading I have done Jeff B did his homework with having two PR’s with the same size and Xm that the 12”SDX has. Now I fudged a little with opting not to include the amp in the build, so I have the potential of damaging the PR’s if I push things to far. That being that, he simmed it with a 1000 watts. Being true world watts never match up, I elected to not build it any smaller or put a spacer in the enclosure. If I rip things apart? why I’ll blame it on Bob. rolleyes.gif

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post #83 of 89 Old 09-19-2013, 08:41 PM
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Hey Pd.. here is a explanation that covers the PR option fairly well. What it basically comes down to is a guy can tune a smaller enclosure lower with PR’s. Going with reg porting would not work because of the length required and air flow. Some feel the PR design if done correctly aids in SQ over the conventional route because of a couple different reasons. Here is a short but good discussion regarding the subject. http://techtalk.parts-express.com/showthread.php?206320-Subwoofer-preferences-Passive-Radiator-or-Ported From my listening experience so far I would sort of equate it as between conventional venting and sealed coupled with dsp. My dual sealed option with the BASSIS I find no fault. Take away dsp/BASSIS, to me sealed looses it’s attraction. Anyway Don’t get me wrong, I’m not saying this will compete with a big-block 18” in a large enclosure spl wise.. I could pull 3-6 slugs out of each PR for a little higher tune and get more out of it if I wanted to and still have a good tune of around 18-19hz I would think though.

Hope you didn’t make a boo-boo also? eek.gif If so, you will make it right I’m sure. Since this woofer will be one of my keepers, I’ll most likely ad another layer on the front and make things right. I think I’ll loose the black top also and make it the same as the front. wink.gif

Interesting. I never knew you could tune PR setups.

That graph looks very nice. I hope it sounds as good as it looks. smile.gif

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post #84 of 89 Old 09-19-2013, 08:48 PM
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Schweet! smile.gif
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post #85 of 89 Old 09-20-2013, 01:32 AM - Thread Starter
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Schweet! smile.gif
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Originally Posted by pdxrealtor View Post

Interesting. I never knew you could tune PR setups.

That graph looks very nice. I hope it sounds as good as it looks. smile.gif

Thanks guys. Can you imagine after I corrected the numbers what my thinking was? On one hand my thinking was this is the best I’ve ever had it! (We all know we can take a flat sub and come out all over the place due to the room, so that admittedly plays just as big a part in my response) but then on the other hand I said to myself I can’t post that! The forum would never believe me. So then my thinking was I did something wrong, maybe my bass disk has already been corrected or something? No, I’ve been using it for a little while now after I lost my last disk at a rental I sold. If I actually used the first reading I would basically be coming in at a +-2.5 no correction not counting 18 and 19hz.. So I finally came to terms and said it is what it is.. I’ll probably get some heat my way though? From my listening experience with the sub the graph matches my impression of my bass response though, so I guess it’s all good? I sure know my bass is! smile.gif If I were in a larger room I very well might tune it a little higher, but in this room it’s all good like mentioned.

I hope with the effort you’re putting into your build PDX, you come out just as good or close to it. You’ve been at it awhile now doing the different things you’ve been doing chasing after that allusive flat response (actually bass has too and caught it) so I’ll cross my fingers for yuh and hope. I’ll be just as happy for you as I would myself. Hey I see you’re also going with a couple dual driver sono’s to go with your single driver sono’s. Mmmm, I’m adding up the drivers and wonder what little birdie might have suggested that to you? not that your not capable of thinking for yourself. If so, would his name start with a b?.. ha ha lol This is better than my ruckus days for sure! biggrin.gif Bunch of dang bass addicts hangin round here. rolleyes.gif

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post #86 of 89 Old 09-20-2013, 03:10 PM
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Oh man, these turned out great! Another masterpiece. smile.gif

And holy crap did you luck out with that FR. Nice!

So is the 12" SDX a winner? Looks like it. I'm pretty bummed out about what was said about the new 15".

Oblivion has some really good bass. Did your chair giggle real good at the end? biggrin.gif

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post #87 of 89 Old 09-20-2013, 07:50 PM
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Originally Posted by steve nn View Post



I hope with the effort you’re putting into your build PDX, you come out just as good or close to it. You’ve been at it awhile now doing the different things you’ve been doing chasing after that allusive flat response (actually bass has too and caught it) so I’ll cross my fingers for yuh and hope. I’ll be just as happy for you as I would myself. Hey I see you’re also going with a couple dual driver sono’s to go with your single driver sono’s. Mmmm, I’m adding up the drivers and wonder what little birdie might have suggested that to you? not that your not capable of thinking for yourself. If so, would his name start with a b?.. ha ha lol This is better than my ruckus days for sure! biggrin.gif Bunch of dang bass addicts hangin round here. rolleyes.gif

Thanks for the kind wishes. It's been a haul that's for sure. If you mean Basshead ya, he's always said add more woofers. He always said get the mini dsp .... he wins. biggrin.gif

RE: the sono DIY build I started reading in the DIY section and ..... darn - it ..... need I say more? smile.gif

When I found what I could have for as a total package for less than even close to anything ID or the like I couldn't say no.

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post #88 of 89 Old 09-21-2013, 05:02 AM - Thread Starter
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Thanks for the kind wishes. It's been a haul that's for sure. If you mean Basshead ya, he's always said add more woofers. He always said get the mini dsp .... he wins. biggrin.gif

RE: the sono DIY build I started reading in the DIY section and ..... darn - it ..... need I say more? smile.gif

When I found what I could have for as a total package for less than even close to anything ID or the like I couldn't say no.

Yeah especially since you’re going with so many subs! Going the DIY route, although a very argues chore considering so many units, once it’s done you should be golden until you get the itch again if it should come uh knockin. From following your quest though, you definitely need the multiple route in your size room and considering your freq response. I am still going to make a note to myself regarding basshead though. biggrin.gifsmile.gif

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Oh man, these turned out great! Another masterpiece. smile.gif

And holy crap did you luck out with that FR. Nice!

So is the 12" SDX a winner? Looks like it. I'm pretty bummed out about what was said about the new 15".

Oblivion has some really good bass. Did your chair giggle real good at the end? biggrin.gif

Thank you Scott I appreciate that. Well mistakes were made, I’m getting rusty I suppose?.. darn magnet flare. eek.gif I was just looking at a mock LTD did for the Marty sub and I definitely would have went with the black front instead of the black top. Especially now since the baffle had to be moded. So I’ll redo the top like I need to anyway and go with the black front, it’ll also help blend the mod without doing another layer on the baffle if I decide to skip.

Yeah I really like the 12” SDX just as much as the 15” but I’m sorry to hear the new 15” appears to be off the table now. I wonder what Bob is going to do regarding bigger drivers? Well, glad I have the old style 15” too. That sub is a little to large to place up here, you ought to see it as it is. A 15” PR or sealed option would be all good, the 12” seems to be more than adiquit though. I know you’re shacking your head with going like 10 18” drivers in your new rig. biggrin.gif

I never did check out the end of OBLIVION with the new sub because I just watched it like a couple three weeks ago. Sounds like I should plug it back in and check out the end though. I forget what heavy bass scene is at the end?

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post #89 of 89 Old 10-03-2013, 07:35 AM - Thread Starter
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Since I missed a couple small pilot holes on one of my PR’s it developed a little hissing noise and I took it as the PR’s were reaching there limit at around 110dB, but after investigating I found the problem and fixed it. A oldie but a goldie I tried out the other day was the INCREDIBLES by PIXAR. I had forgot how much LFE was in that movie.

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