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post #181 of 268 Old 10-15-2013, 01:49 PM - Thread Starter
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Enclosures are done. Amp gets here on the 18th, Peavy 7500. My dedicated 20 amp line is drooling............

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post #182 of 268 Old 10-15-2013, 03:14 PM
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Hey pd.. So you have nothing laying around that you could fire one up with then? bummer

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post #183 of 268 Old 10-15-2013, 03:16 PM - Thread Starter
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Nothing............ notta.......nilch............. total bummer.

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post #184 of 268 Old 10-15-2013, 03:21 PM
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If I were still up there I would loan you something. So your actually bassless in the NW then. not good, bet you’re going to get ornery!

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post #185 of 268 Old 10-18-2013, 10:30 PM
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well its the 19th whats the word?
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post #186 of 268 Old 10-18-2013, 11:00 PM - Thread Starter
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Word is amps were due at 5 pm actoss town and friday traffic is a b?tch. Plus my xlr s didnt show today.

Gonna make a trip first thing in the morning. But I also have to hit the dump. And while its nice out I think im gonna build my side reflection pannels.

Then again the amp might get the best of me. Ill at least hook it up to get some cone action going. Just not planning on anything loud with a mic until monday.

Steve thx for the offer.

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post #187 of 268 Old 10-19-2013, 08:25 AM
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Not a prob.. Or city dump?

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post #188 of 268 Old 10-19-2013, 09:27 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by steve nn View Post

Not a prob.. Or city dump?

No, nw pdx. Im in cedar hills so its a qucik 26-405-30 route.

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post #189 of 268 Old 10-19-2013, 01:23 PM - Thread Starter
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The eagle has landed.


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post #190 of 268 Old 10-19-2013, 03:57 PM
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SWEET!

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post #191 of 268 Old 10-19-2013, 07:28 PM
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Does the Eagle have power yet? smile.gif
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post #192 of 268 Old 10-19-2013, 08:15 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by basshead81 View Post

Does the Eagle have power yet? smile.gif

The eagle just got a 43.00 custom extension cord, and a 20.00 smoke alarm.

Headed down to wire it all up in a few.

Got a shelf built, glued, and routed, for it and the mini dsp,so it will go under the false wall I framed in to hide the PSA subs...i got a nice big void there. rolleyes.gif

Also got the bypass doors that will wall off the popcorn machine and mini fridge housed in the alcove area (or keg to be depending on who you ask) textured and primed.

Got all the materials set to build side reflections tomorrow too. A busy day of getting prep work done and a lo of materials to finish this outside stuff for the winter. We got 70s until I leave for hawaii!!


Ill throw up a pic when I power it on. Not sure Ill get the xlr inputs soldered tonight, but i might.

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post #193 of 268 Old 10-19-2013, 09:00 PM - Thread Starter
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She lights up!



So many connections to wire. Ugg

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post #194 of 268 Old 10-21-2013, 08:07 AM
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Ok pd it's time to fill us in a little?? start talkin or start walkin smile.gif

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post #195 of 268 Old 10-21-2013, 10:08 AM - Thread Starter
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Been a VERY busy two days with great results. Sound panels, bypass doors, subs are in place and wired, clean up, amp table built, shop area cleaned up etc:rolleyes:....... Sorry if I cant tend to your curiosity steve. rolleyes.gif












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post #196 of 268 Old 10-21-2013, 10:12 AM - Thread Starter
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wink.gifbiggrin.gif:D

Just giving you ****.

Seriously, can you tell me how to implement a high pass filter and anything else I need to set on the mini.... so I can use REW safely?

Im ready , except for the safety setting on the mini.

I should be OK, because I barely tickle the clip lights with +3/4 gain and sub trim at +8 while playing some JZ. But I want to be sure.

One thing I am sure of is these SI drivers, in sealed 4 cube boxes, can handle way more than 600 watts.

Unless the Peavy 7500 is under ated, but I don't think so.......

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post #197 of 268 Old 10-21-2013, 10:48 AM
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No I never have employed a mini, always the BASSIS with sealed. In all honesty I never had the need for a hp with my sealed and see no reason for you to be concerned (some would tell you different as they always do) considering your situation. Things are really coming together then. I look forward to what you come up with. You got me good in your first post though. I owe you a bass zinger smile.gif

EDIT> Don’t hesitate to run your gain at max on your Peavey and back off your trim.

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post #198 of 268 Old 10-21-2013, 11:04 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by steve nn View Post

No I never have employed a mini, always the BASSIS with sealed. In all honesty I never had the need for a hp with my sealed and see no reason for you to be concerned (some would tell you different as they always do) considering your situation. Things are really coming together then. I look forward to what you come up with. You got me good in your first post though. I owe you a bass zinger smile.gif

EDIT> Don’t hesitate to run your gain at max on your Peavey and back off your trim.

Ok, thx. I think I can start with a lower volume and listen for bottoming out.

Gonna work out and then Ill run a few raw graphs before any low end boost etc.

Just for you lover boy....... biggrin.gif
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post #199 of 268 Old 10-21-2013, 11:13 AM
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SHHH [/url

EDIT> I took the time rolleyes.gifbiggrin.gif to dig a little something up for you on where I’m coming from regarding hp with your sealed subs. Check it out, it’s a very small read. http://www.avsforum.com/t/1217542/subwoofer-high-pass-filter-whats-it-for

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post #200 of 268 Old 10-21-2013, 06:04 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by steve nn View Post

SHHH [/url

EDIT> I took the time rolleyes.gifbiggrin.gif to dig a little something up for you on where I’m coming from regarding hp with your sealed subs. Check it out, it’s a very small read. http://www.avsforum.com/t/1217542/subwoofer-high-pass-filter-whats-it-for

Crap Steve I didn't even realize you added this edit. I will check it out now!

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post #201 of 268 Old 10-21-2013, 06:10 PM - Thread Starter
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Alright, I changed the title in hopes to get some more people in here.

I need some help getting the mini dsp setup to start. Some basic 'starting points'.

In the mean time I'll be reading about how to setup boost on the low end and a couple other things...... house curves etc.

I don't think I need a crossover since the AVR is doing that for me so I will bypass that part in the mini-dsp setup process.

Looking forward to suggestions! I will update post number three throughout the process. Complete with REW graphs for all to see.

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post #202 of 268 Old 10-21-2013, 08:17 PM
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First calibrate the system so all speakers are at 75 dBs after proper placement and run REW. If you can run sweeps to see where your best placement would be if you can move them. If you have nearfield subs a lower crossover is required so you won't localize them.
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post #203 of 268 Old 10-21-2013, 08:43 PM - Thread Starter
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Roger that......... Hoping for REW graphs tomorrow morning.

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post #204 of 268 Old 10-21-2013, 08:49 PM
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Cool!
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post #205 of 268 Old 10-21-2013, 09:25 PM
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Subs turned out cool pdx!
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post #206 of 268 Old 10-21-2013, 09:41 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
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Subs turned out cool pdx!

Thanks!

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post #207 of 268 Old 10-22-2013, 08:54 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pdxrealtor View Post

In this section I will post REW graphs and tuning info.

I have two dual opposed, one in each corner of the front of my theater.

Then about 5ft behind the row of theater chairs I have two single driver cabinets.

All are powered by a Peavy IPR2 7500 and in line is a mini-dsp, balanced version, set to 0.9 input volts.
___________________________________________________________
10/22/13

I set the gain structure today using this guide - I'll admit I didn't read a lot of it, but read a decent amount. Add in the mini dsp input sensitivity option and it can become a time consuming task for someone who doesn't do this all the time.

http://www.hometheatershack.com/forums/home-theater-receivers-processors-amps/35677-gain-structure-home-theater-getting-most-pro-audio-equipment-your-system.html

Also took a piece from Ricci from this post. --- The part about using 80% of max AVR volume if the only tool you are using is a volt meter. Basically you can assume that @ 80% max volume you are close to the point of clipping the AVR under the gain structure setting steps.

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1330718/how-to-set-gain-structure-properly/30#post_20495397

Here is the best info I found on the mini-dsp input setting-

http://www.minidsp.com/forum/minidsp-for-newbies/5163-re-how-to-setup-input-level

I tried both input settings, 2.0 volts and .9 volts. I went with the .9 volts as it was a much better match. The point of clipping is -6db on the input side.

Here's some REW graphs. NOTE: I trip my dedicated 20 amp breaker before I begin to show signs of any compression. The subs have more, they just need more juice. At least for sine waves. biggrin.gif I didn't have time to play with any movies and the music I played with yesterday tripped the breaker, but that was before the gain setup..... not sure if that's going to matter. frown.gif

Also, check out page seven for detailed data I acquired during the gain structure process.

My room gives no love, but the good part is I basically know where to put what.

I believe the problem is the wall directly behind the LP. Move the mic over to the more open L part of the room and things get better. It is what it is. At least with these subs I know the DBs are there, I just need to dial them in. wink.gif

This graph is after I did all the gain structuring and level calibrating with the .9 input setting on the mini. It was one of the last measurements for the night. I will pick up from here when I start back up. I ran out of electricity before the subs ran out of juice.



Here is an average of all my LPs. The mic was placed on each side of each chair at ear level. The test was done at a calibrated 80 db.




Here's one of the earlier graphs for the day. I ran it until the breaker tripped too. I'm not sure why the peak was more DB here vs. the first graph. The only thing I played around with was the time delay and volume settings in the mini dsp. I believe this was at a 3.5 ms setting on the two rear single cab subs and 0 on the front subs.

I know it looks like a couple of tests show compressing, but for some reason I only increased 4db at a time. I can't remember why, but there was a reason. I tripped the breaker on the next test, but didn't keep the measurement.



Ya...... still got that lovely null ~50 hz. biggrin.gif

You can see the line on the last graph above. I started the tests at 80 db and moved up from there. So that shows you the peaks and dips I'm dealing with.


I'm off to Hawaii for a week on Thursday so this is it for a while. smile.gif

New graphs are up. If they don't show up here they are on page one.

I did some reading on gain structure and did the process, twice. Here's some numbers I got in case someone down the road stumbles on this thread and finds it useful. smile.gif

Pioneer AVR SC 1522, same as the SC 68 (I think) show the following volts at LFE RCA out using a 60 hz sine wave @ -3dbs in REW:
- 30 = 0.2 volts at LFE output
-20= 0.8
-10= 3.0
0 = 8.7
+10 = 10.8
+12 (max) = 11

To gain match I turned the AVR sub trim to max and AVR volume to 80%, which is -6 on my AVR. Since I didn't have a way to tell when I was actually clipping the AVR signal I used Ricci's suggestion of 80% max volume.

I used a 60 HZ pink wave tone at -3dbs (with subs unplugged from amp) and turned up the amp gains until the clip light came on. With the mini dsp at the 2.0 input volt setting the amp gain knob was at -3 + 1 dot. With the mini dsp input setting at .9 volts that dropped the amp gain knobs down to an even -3.

However, with the mini dsp input voltage at .9 I get max voltage before I get to max output on my AVR. With the mini dsp set to an input voltage of 2.0 I could not get max input with max AVR settings. Make sense? If not read the links I posted on page one post 3. smile.gif

After setting the gain structure the front woofers are ~ 8 DB louder than the rears. With both on the DB was above 75. With the mini dsp input voltage at 2.0 volts I had enough room to dial back the output using the AVR sub trim, to a combined 75 DB....even though the front was still ~ 8DB louder than the rears.

With the mini dsp input voltage at .9 the spread between the front sub channel and the rear sub channel stayed the same at ~ 8db. But when combined I did not have enough room to dial back the DB to 75 using the AVR sub trim so I used the mini-dsp output on the front channel and took a couple DBs out that way.

As it stands I'm at -12 (max reduction) on my AVR sub trim and a tick of reduction on the mini output to get the 75 DB level calibration needed.

With this setup I hit -6.2 (just before clipping) on the mini dsp input at a sub trim of -3 and an AVR volume of 0 (reference). That is 9 DB hot on the sub level, and reference on the mains/surrounds. Bump the sub trim up to a stupid +3 (that's 14 db hot!) and AVR still at reference (0) I get a -1.2 input reading on the mini dsp. Clipping happens at -6.

With the 2.0 volt input setting on the mini I got exactly 0.1 on a 60 hz sine wave with max sub trim @ 80% AVR volume (-6). That's max settings. Not getting even close to full input/output and it gets worse as you decrease sub trim and AVR volume.

.9 volts is the obvious winner.

As always I'm open to feedback. smile.gif

The next thing I will read up on is how to boost the low end on a DIY sealed sub setup. If anyone has some pointers I'm all ears! I think that's the next step before Eqing some of these peaks down. But if I'm wrong let me know.

Been a looonnnngg day. Too bad I won't remember any of this in 3 months. tongue.gif

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post #208 of 268 Old 10-23-2013, 01:34 AM
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Maybe when you get back you can repost your graphs that you copied to here so we can click on them and get a better look? Over on page one we can click though. Quick question if you make it back before your trip, where do you have things crossed?

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post #209 of 268 Old 10-23-2013, 08:06 AM
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I would move the subs around(I know you are limited) the best you can. Can you stack them? I bet the higher you have a couple the smoother the response. I would also just measure at the sweet spot for your manual tweaking and then let Audyssey do the whole room and see what it does with the response. Rule of thumb is best possible placement with room treatments first to get the main listening position correct and then Audyssey does not have to do as much to fix things.
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post #210 of 268 Old 10-23-2013, 01:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by basshead81 View Post

Does the Eagle have power yet? smile.gif

Quote:
Originally Posted by pdxrealtor View Post

She lights up!



So many connections to wire. Ugg

Yes she does, and its a pretty blue, for about 10 minutes then it is an annoying blue. I shrouded the front with some leftover black velvet from my old screen build and it does an excellent job. I just taped it across the top and left the bottom so it can flap and release the air being pulled through by the fans.

Quote:
Originally Posted by pdxrealtor View Post

wink.gifbiggrin.gif:D

Just giving you ****.

Seriously, can you tell me how to implement a high pass filter and anything else I need to set on the mini.... so I can use REW safely?

Im ready , except for the safety setting on the mini.

I should be OK, because I barely tickle the clip lights with +3/4 gain and sub trim at +8 while playing some JZ. But I want to be sure.

One thing I am sure of is these SI drivers, in sealed 4 cube boxes, can handle way more than 600 watts.

Unless the Peavy 7500 is under ated, but I don't think so.......

actually, with your sub trim, you might be clipping the input of the peavey. I just said "maybe" though. I would suggest cranking the gain on the peavey all the way up and seeing where that gets your trim level on the AVR to. Hopefully a little closer to 0 or even negative preferably.

in 4 cubes you can get away with a little more power, but then you could run into the thermal limits of the driver. Which is also a big no-no. the peavey should be giving you 600 per driver wit h4 on a channel at 4 ohm.

(European models do not accept banana plugs.)

 

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