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post #241 of 268 Old 11-10-2013, 08:39 PM
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Originally Posted by pdxrealtor View Post

lol

Well you're up to somethin? wink.gif

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post #242 of 268 Old 11-11-2013, 05:14 AM
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Here is a link that you might find interesting regarding cancelations? It’s pretty packed and also gets into other aspects of multiple SW’s. http://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread.php?t=48286

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post #243 of 268 Old 11-20-2013, 08:59 PM
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Hi
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post #244 of 268 Old 11-20-2013, 09:25 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by basshead81 View Post

Hi


I know I know.....

I ended up buying another box of OC 703, for more base traps and a ceiling cloud.

Painted all the trim in the room black (ripped all the equipment out- the whole nine) and finally got bypass doors in the Alcove area. Might I add they had to be reenforced with 3/16" hardened steel bars, because no way were 1/4" panel doors going to hold up in that room.

The bypass doors were a project in themselves.

The bass build up in the Alcove area was ~ 7-8 DB higher than the rest of the room, as was the space behind the seats against the back wall. That's why I get a flatter graph when I open that door. The energy can escape.

I got the Rane PEQ hooked up and it's problem free. Nice newer model in mint condition.

The waterfall graphs from those first measures I did turned out pretty good so minus those couple nulls I'm pretty close. The extra traps and panels will help with both.

Then..... finally ..... I will dial in the entire system. Getting close. I've been working..... just not directly on subwoofer graphs. Indirectly sort of.....

I'm hoping tomorrow I can wrap the ceiling to wall corner traps, and get the third 6" panel trap on the back wall. That'll be 4 6" panels covering that entire wall and wall to ceiling corner traps from the back wall around the side wall over the door. One more trap on the alcove side of the room and some pink fluffy in the alcove.

Then Friday hopefully hand the ceiling/corner traps and reinstall the equipment rack etc....

Here's a pic of the much dreaded alcove area doors.... that was a horrible project, but it turned quite well.


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post #245 of 268 Old 11-20-2013, 09:31 PM - Thread Starter
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Here's the problem wall. The plans have been changed a bit only to not include any treatment of the HVAC soffit. Just the full wall to the door will be treated, as well as the top corners. 6" not 4", more above the door and slightly past......yadda yadds.....


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post #246 of 268 Old 11-21-2013, 12:59 AM
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busy-busy, hang in there pd.. cool.gif

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post #247 of 268 Old 11-22-2013, 11:54 PM
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lookin good thanks for the update!
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post #248 of 268 Old 11-26-2013, 09:18 PM - Thread Starter
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Tomorrow is clean up day- I'm done.

Ok .. rolleyes.gif I have the ceiling cloud to hang, but I'm going to hold off on that until after the holidays.

I've also been eye balling the Onkyo 1010. XT32 with sub eq. Been reading great things about that XT32. That's another thread though....... wink.gif

Pictures are crappy but you get the point. 13 ft of corner traps spread out.... 4" thick with pink fluffy stuffed behind them.... and.... three 6" 4'x2 panels on the back wall.

Going to leave the subs where they are at to see if there is any difference in the response. I know the waterfall graph will be greatly improved at the least.

Graphs coming up...........




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post #249 of 268 Old 12-02-2013, 09:53 PM - Thread Starter
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Well I am ready to admit I truly have a problem. I can't stop. rolleyes.gif

Got the cloud done despite the fact I said I was going to wait. In that process I realized I had one piece of 705 and all my other sheets is 703 so I had to wait until today to get the right sheet for the third panel of the cloud. Damn if I couldn't help but not buy more sheets to beef up the side reflections some more. I mean..... it is just a matter of dropping them into the already made panels...... rolleyes.gif

Played around with the Rane PE 17 last night. It's going back. While it eq'd wonderfully I found it a PITA to not have a way to recall settings.

I am going to need each subwoofer hooked up to its own channel to.... at the minimum have volume and distance controls.

Been looking at a receiver with xt32 sub eq, or an antimode. Neither of which I've determined will work with four subs in different locations and distances from the LP. So bummer..... I don't get to buy a neat new toy.

Nah... instead I get to buy another amp for my subs. tongue.gif

But the flip side is I'm stuck using the mini-dsp for now. I've emailed them to ask if there is possibly a way to tap into the board and install a clip light indicator. What a novel idea, huh?

Here's a couple graphs. I started to peter out at 120 db, because my front four 18" were muted about 1/2 and the two rear single cabs were maxed out.

This graph was a picture of the FR used to match the EQ using the RTA (the bottom black line)



This is a graph after the Rane EQing. The Rane rolls off just above 10Hz. With the Rane bypassed I'm a bit flatter to a bit lower. 5DB increases until compression. Again, the front four subs were attenuated to get the most workable graph.



Here's a shot of the mains and subs after distance tweaks in the AVR. It's about as smooth as the xover point would get going from 1' to 30' in 2' increments. I only have the one distance adjustment so I'm kind of crippled. I gotta get it better than this. Also got a couple problem spots just past 200 that I need to figure out.



Here is a waterfall graph of Rane EQd 100 or 105 db measure.


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post #250 of 268 Old 12-03-2013, 04:28 AM
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PD bit the buuulleeet, but he did not shoot his suuubwoooferrrs. rolleyes.gifbiggrin.gif

Dang! Here is hoping you get to where you want PD. This sure has been a long road for yuh man.

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post #251 of 268 Old 12-03-2013, 06:58 AM
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I thought the mini dsp has a distance setting for each channel? Have you looked at the OpenDRC? Graphs look pretty good, might want to boost the 20hz area a bit...I see you have a IPR 7500 for sale, why not keep it and run 2 of those amps?
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post #252 of 268 Old 12-03-2013, 07:43 AM
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You're letting the two individual subs run the system at this point if you are knocking the fronts down so much. Why take your two best enclosures and neuter them? Was it detrimental to the response? The way you have it now should be leaving quite a bit on the table. Just sayin

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post #253 of 268 Old 12-03-2013, 07:50 AM
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You're letting the two individual subs run the system at this point if you are knocking the fronts down so much. Why take your two best enclosures and neuter them?

That was a thought I had also.

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post #254 of 268 Old 12-03-2013, 08:08 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by beastaudio View Post

You're letting the two individual subs run the system at this point if you are knocking the fronts down so much. Why take your two best enclosures and neuter them? Was it detrimental to the response? The way you have it now should be leaving quite a bit on the table. Just sayin

Agreed. To answer your question..... It was definitely a graph smoother lowering the energy coming from the front subs. There's no way I will end up that attenuated on the front four as it does leave a lot on the table.

What it does, attenuating the fronts like that, is really smooth out a 50HZ trough. Since I added the larger panels and corner trapping to the back short wall it has turned that 50Hz problem area into more of a large trough vs. a sharp suck out. Whether I'm able to work that trough to my advantage via a hard knee type curve or not is yet to be explored.

I have one of the front dual cabs moved out of its location now, and it's on its way to the back of the L area. That will leave two singles near field, on double in the rear most part of the L area directly behind the near field guys, and one dual up front.

Who knows what that will do, but one thing is for sure....... The short half of my back wall is the problem.

I tired moving the two single cabinets up front of the seats and moving them around. The graph just goes bonkers. More energy banging into that back wall .........

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I thought the mini dsp has a distance setting for each channel? Have you looked at the OpenDRC? Graphs look pretty good, might want to boost the 20hz area a bit...I see you have a IPR 7500 for sale, why not keep it and run 2 of those amps?

Hi Bass- the mini does have distance settings for as many subs as a person has channels. I have four subs and two channels. Two of the four subs are co located, but two are not. They might end up equidistance to the LP, but not for sure yet. In any event the distance abilities the mini has is the only reason Im going to give it a shot. Ok ok..... Also because I can store different curves which is pretty handy.

Haven't looked into the mini dsp open drc, kind of frustrated with them.

The IPR 7500 that is for sale is an extra I have. I don't need 7500 watts for two 18s. I am gonna pick up a IPR2 2000 and run it in two ohm mode giving each single cab 1000 watts via two channels.

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post #255 of 268 Old 12-03-2013, 10:34 AM - Thread Starter
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Here's a graph without EQ, but after the extra rear wall treatments. See the 50Hz trough I have now.



When I lower the peaks at 35 and 65 it also lowers the 50 hz trough.

This was an 80 db measurement with front subs running 6-8 db higher than the rears. Basically both channels on the amp gain matched to the one sub signal I have.

I just scored an SVS EQ-1 biggrin.gif - I talked with SVS and my sub location as it is now will work since they are either co-located or equidistant from the LP. If the graph holds up or gets better I will lay the two dual cabs down in the center under the screen like the old PSA XV30fs were. This will make the task for the Sub EQ even easier as both pairs of subs will be co-located.

We'll see what good ol' Audyessy can do. What I really like about the svs-eq-1 (or antimode or xt32 sub eq) is that it EQs in the time domain as well as the FR, reducing ringing. This cannot be accomplished with PEQ alone.

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post #256 of 268 Old 12-10-2013, 09:42 PM - Thread Starter
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I bought an SVS EQ-1 and after several measurements I don't think I will keep it. It doesn't store more than one preset which is fine unless you're trying to set it up by running several measurements and choosing the best one. In the end I just was not happy with the end results. I listened to an awesome demo blu-ray from the forum and it sounded real good, but it has to sound better with a flatter graph, right?

I ended up going back to the mini-dsp today. I get a pretty good response by just adjusting the delay of the subs. Smooths things out real nice. I went a couple routes.

1) I used the least amount of filters possible. One cut and one boost.

2) I used the filters to shape the response a bit. That resulted in four filters three boost and one cut. Total boost is 9 db with 3db on three filters.

Checkout these graphs and let me know what you think. I'd like to know in particular if it's normal for the xover region to dip so much. The EQ1 did this also.

Here's some graphs.

EQ1 , Mini-dsp with 2 filters , Mini-dsp with 4 filters


Just Mini-dsp with 4 filters. 9 db of total boost, 3 db of cut



Mini-dsp 2 filters 3 db of boost 3 db of cut



Mini-dsp no eq - just delay adjustments



Waterfall overlay of both mini-dsp eq results. green is minimal filters blue is 4 filters


For kicks here is a waterfall of the EQ1 vs. the Mini-dsp w/ 4 filters 9 db of boost. EQ1 is in red


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post #257 of 268 Old 12-11-2013, 12:32 AM
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What's your cross.. 80?

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post #258 of 268 Old 12-11-2013, 07:22 AM
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You seem to be all over the place right near the crossover region. Bad integration with the mains if in fact you are crossing at 80-90hz. That will certainly create a "lack of impact" scenario in your setup.

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post #259 of 268 Old 12-11-2013, 09:30 AM - Thread Starter
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Yes- 80 hz

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post #260 of 268 Old 12-12-2013, 08:12 PM - Thread Starter
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Updated graphs on the first page. For the most part they are final. I can always tweak here and there later on but the foundation is set.

Really, I didn't have to add any filters at all. But I did to make it that much better.

Thanks all for the help throughout this entire process.

I hope the future readers find some of the build info helpful.

See you all around the forums!

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post #261 of 268 Old 12-12-2013, 09:02 PM
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So what do you think overall? How is it compared to your PSA subs?
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post #262 of 268 Old 12-12-2013, 09:10 PM - Thread Starter
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Not even in the same league.......

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That is what I thought! I think your subs look great and you did a great job. What was the total cost of the system? How do you like the JBL pro speakers? Those are the 3677's? As big as they are they are the babies!
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post #264 of 268 Old 12-12-2013, 10:21 PM
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Not even in the same league.......

Yes the PSA subs are much better with more output aren't they. wink.gif

WOW pd, would you look at that graph. eek.gif So glad this finally worked out.



EDIT> How did you square up the cross? was it a filter?

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post #265 of 268 Old 12-13-2013, 06:29 AM
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for sure, the crossover region looks worlds better. What was the special sauce? Delay settings?

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post #266 of 268 Old 12-13-2013, 03:41 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
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That is what I thought! I think your subs look great and you did a great job. What was the total cost of the system? How do you like the JBL pro speakers? Those are the 3677's? As big as they are they are the babies!

Thanks for the compliments.

The best way I can describe the difference between the 6 18's and the 4 15 PSA subs, as I'm sure most of you know, is bold letters vs. letters that aren't bold. They both say the same thing. One just does it with more emphasis and authority.

$2446.00 total. That doesn't account for any tools I didn't have. Router, bits.... etc...

I like the JBL 3677s. I think they are a great value and once properly dialed in I am able to listen at reference without any being fatigued throughout an entire movie. Before I dialed them though.... they were bright. All I did to dial them was change the capture time MCACC used when going through the pro EQ setup. Since I'm 90% movies these JBLs are perfect for me and my 2200 CF room.

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Yes the PSA subs are much better with more output aren't they. wink.gif

WOW pd, would you look at that graph. eek.gif So glad this finally worked out.



EDIT> How did you square up the cross? was it a filter?

Actually.... thanks for pointing that out. In all of my tweaking I completely forgot to raise the sub trim back up to 75 db. mad.gif When I did that this morning the xover point looked worse by the amount of DB I had to raise the sub trim to get 75.

So I started over, which turned out good because I was able to double the sound out of the front two cabinets which enabled me to ultimately turn back the sub trim for the same 75 db output. This is good thanks to the mini-dsp inputs being so sensitive.

Ended up with similar results in my seat, and a bit worse results in the two seats next to mine. A couple 10-13 db peaks from 50-60hz. I'll work on it.

The main thing is I know it's just a matter of finding the right volume and delay settings. I didn't have time but it's very likely I can take the one notch and one boost in this graph out and get better results at the other two seats. I know it's certainly doable at my seat.

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for sure, the crossover region looks worlds better. What was the special sauce? Delay settings?

Delay and level volumes is the key. As I said above to Steve I can get this level within +/- 3 using no filters. I can also shape the FR with level and delay into a house curve, using no filters. For now this is what I've got in the mini-dsp. I have the exact same program but with a 25Hz 5DB shelf filter. I left it out for now since it induces more ringing on the waterfall graph.

One is reference and one is subs 10db hot.



I actually dropped it down 2-3 DB from here while listening to some demo material. I don't know if it's because I'm not used to the rear near field subs or maybe the spl meter is reading a bit hot putting me a bit over 75 db when I think I'm at 75 db..... but it just sounded better.

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post #267 of 268 Old 01-23-2014, 11:47 AM
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Awesome build thread! I am considering using the same driver for my build and was thinking of using the one of the crown amps you mentioned in the second post. How does the built in HP filter affect the bass? I figure it must be worth me looking into since it seems that's why it didn't make the cut for your build.

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post #268 of 268 Old 01-23-2014, 12:32 PM - Thread Starter
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It starts to roll off @ ... I think.... 20Hz. There's a lot of info about the Crown roll off. I don't remember much because I ruled it out early! Have fun.... I'm about to start another build. wink.gif

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