SI 18s- 6 in Sono Tubes - Build is done - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 268 Old 09-06-2013, 09:28 PM - Thread Starter
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Didn't want to clog up the official thread more than necessary so here is my build thread.

Two dual opposed and two single down firing. Sealed. All in Sono Tubes. Dual opposed volume will be 8.522^3 and the singles will be 4.065 ^3.

I just picked up four pieces of Sono Tube today, from a local supplier. Two 3' x 24" for dual opposed and two 1.5' x 24" for single down firing subs to smooth the FR. Hell they might just go in front of my screen if it becomes too much hassle and not enough reward.

I have a mini DSP 2x4 which should be enough - four enclosures total. **Edit** Had to upgrade to a balanced DSP model. No biggie, sold my unbalanced for 80 and picked up a new balanced for 145.00. This is needed to supply the correct amount of volts to the pro audio amp I will be using.

The Sono Tube cost me 110.00 and a trip to the east side of town. eek.gif I just couldn't say no to the price vs. reward ratio. eek.gifeek.gifeek.gifeek.giftongue.gif

I'm gonna need some amps. Due to the fact two of the enclosures will most likely be floating around I'm aiming for two amps, one for the dual opposed and one for the 'floaters'. Suggestions needed. I want to go at the minimum of the 600 watts RMS rated power. Crown 1500 and 2500 come to mind, but I wouldn't mind saving some coin.

Throw some amp choices at me and I'll research them, please..

I want to go buy a router and jig so I can cut my own circles and put some nice corners on the ones that will be visible, but if I'm going to tap out on amps I can find another option possibly.

I want to order the subs, but I need to know a bit more info, like amps, before I go ordering VC that could possibly end up not working.

I will finish them with either black carpet or more likely truck bed liner. Or maybe a mix of both.

This is going to be a blast! I haven't built an enclosure for over 10 years and let's just say that 10 years ago I was a little sloppy. smile.gif




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post #2 of 268 Old 09-06-2013, 09:29 PM - Thread Starter
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Equipment List and Cost


Amp suggestions- Thanks guys!

  • Hyrlyfrn - Peavey IPR2 7500 FTW - $799.00 nets about 1000 watts per driver
  • Wormraper - EP 4000
  • Local shop- Crest 3800
  • LTD - Cerwin Vega cv5000 - second choice, but 83lbs, less watts, and the same price as the Peavy 7500.
  • Crown - not so good due to built in HP filter

Drivers
  • Stereo Integrity 18 D4 - six of them. biggrin.gif
  • Dayton




Total Cost

  • Sono Tube- 110.00
  • Amp - 799.00 625.00 - I got a great deal!
  • Drivers- 1350.00
  • Wood- 70.00 140.00 (four sheets of MDF)
  • Router/Jig- 243.00
  • Bits 90.00 (ended up with high quality solid carbide Diablo bits) I'll use them for other projects too, but wanted to add as a cost because I wouldn't have bought them if it wasn't for this project.
  • 73.00 SpeakON connectors (Jmac)
  • Wheels - 59.88 (Harbor Freight)
  • Polyfill - 28.37 - 12 lbs .5 lb/cf for each enclosure (Joanns)
  • Misc. Home Depot - 200.00
  • Carpet - (Jmac)

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Pictures:

Step one- cutting 4x8' sheets into squares so I can router my circles.

Since I'm doing double plugs inside the sonotube (OK - some call them baffles) I found a creative way to utilize some scrap wood.

Using tight bond 2 I glued two 12.5" pieces together on top of a 24.5" square. My plunge router will go 2.5" deep so I can route out both inner plugs at the same time and save on wood at the same time.

However, I'm not brave enough to glue all my 24.5" boards together yet. I need to see how the router bit handles 1.5" and glue. ***Update** the gluing of the boards worked great, but what works even better is cutting everything out of one 4x8 sheet wink.gif







Started cutting circles today. Banged three or four out and thought to myself, why the hell am I not cutting the inner circle out with the jig hooked up, as that was taking the most time. Setting the jig for each plug (ok, I know they are baffles, from here on out I will refer them as such).

So, I got onto SI s website and looked up the cutout data. 16.7", converted into a fraction it's like between about 16 and 11/16ths...... Great. Divide that in two, 8.35 or about 8 and 3/8ths.

Set up the circle jig with the router bit 8 and 3.8ths out, make my cut. Some how I'm not understanding how to cut the inner diameter correctly because the hole I was left with was 17 and 1/4..... 1/2" too big. The circle that came out was the size I needed the hole to be.

No idea where I went wrong or how to calculate it. I know that 1/4" of that was not measuring the bit on the inside of the cut, vs. the outside as is done for the first circle. No idea where the other 1/4" went. I have to fiddle with it in a way as to not waste wood. Like draw my circle then line the router up and figure out where I'm going wrong that way.

I can still use the baffle as a bottom piece since it won't matter if the hole is bigger than the driver's mounting ring.

Anyways..... after that mistake things went down hill quickly. I forgot to center the jig anchor in the middle of the board. Instead I centered it at the circle half way mark. rolleyes.gif

Then, I was back to routing along banging out circles like a worker on the assembly line and the damn bit broke. I've decided Harbor Freight is off limits. That's down right unsafe. I was only making 1/4" deep cuts, three passes, and I wasn't romping on the thing. POS.... that was it for the night.

I am buying a high end bit tomorrow and will hopefully finish all the squares I have.

On the plus side.... with a 1/4" bit I was able to go 1/2" over on my square cutouts. So a 24.5" square leaves almost nothing at the high points.







Got A LOT done today. See post 115 for some great info on how to cut precise circles, mostly inner circles, which were kicking my ass for a bit. I cut circles almost non-stop from 2:30 until about 7:00 when my bit broke. Good day today. Almost ready for my outer baffles.

I want to do a few test cuts on the edge to see what profile I will go with. Then it's off to get more MDF.





My Tower Of Corner Scrap. WTH do you do with scrap MDF?


See that little tiny piece in the lower left corner of the white work bench? That's what ended my day today.


Started on the home stretch - the outer baffles. They will have an outer edge profile of a 1/4" round over, and an inner (against the woofer) edge profile of 1/8" round over. Just enough to rub the edge down.




In post 115 I talk about a youtube vid that helped me with getting more accuracy out of cutting circles, mainly the inner one. This little tool is the cats meow. Notice how I wrote in the numbers from 0 at center and up towards each end. They didn't have a real zero center ruler at Home Depot.



Cutting the outer baffles out of the sheet this time. I'm confident enough with the router to do this now. Looks like it will also allow me to get two extra circles vs. if I was cutting them into squares first then routing out the circles.


Mounting the drivers/planting the baffles -

Tonight I got it all done except for the final mount ..... any questions on the assembly let me know/. biggrin.gif
Here is sunk the first two inner baffles in and used a dead blow hammer from the bottom to pound them into place. AFTER I applied the glue.



Flip them over and apply glue to the underside. I'll also caulk these with a sealant after the glue dries.



I used my brad nailer to put some staples in all the way around. I think they were 3/4", maybe 1/2". I thought it was a worth while step


Again- after pounding the baffles from the underside apply some glue. I used a square piece of MDF on the ground to get the inner baffle level with the top of the sonotube. Worked well.


I screwed on the outer baffle, after routing the outer edge with a 1/4" round over bit, and the inner with a 1/8" round over bit. I sunk the screws and will cover them with spackle before priming the MDF







On each baffle I always dropped a woofer in the inner baffle before gluing and screwing the outer baffle on. This assures a perfect alignment



I used Tight Bond 2 for all my gluing. I read it sanded better and still did a good job holding



Here's a shot just after the outer baffle was glued and screwed. Nice and tight fit.


Here is a finished, ready for spackle, prime, and paint, single woofer enclosure.



Done for the night. Next up - filler - primer - paint. I'm going with a truck bed liner for the final coat. Black. Durable. wink.gif



9/29/13-- the last couple days have been torrential downpours here, so I've been limited to my garage, which is actually a fully finished gym that really isn't supposed to be used for carpentry work. I did however manage to get some spackling and sanding done. These guys are almost ready for primer and paint. Nothing really holding me back but the weather. I'm going to order my amp this week



Got most of the painting done, and I'll add those pics shortly. But these two pics show the sealant applied to the joints of the inner baffles. I would NOT trust the wood glue to seal your enclosure. In the taller tubes I managed to get the caulk gun to work, but in the 18" tubes forget it. For these I found it priceless to have a tube of caulk that was able to be squeezed by hand. About the size of a tube of toothpaste. Probably could have done them all with this, but wasn't really forced to look for a solution until I got to the shorter enclosures.




10/11/13- Spent the last week + painting the outer baffles. Primer, sand, primer, truck bed liner, fill the screw holes better, more coats of bed liner, final coats of flat black paint.

Tonight I put the carpet on (all my baffles are painted) and installed the speakON connecters into the sonotube. I didn't take pictures of the carpet install process, if you've made it this far you can certainly find a way that works best for you to install the carpet. wink.gif

I did however post some pics of the speakON install. You could use the same process with any terminal or speaker cup etc.. I chose the speakON connectors because the amp I am using has the same. There is two connectors for two of the enclosures and one connector on the other two. Why? Because I'm using two enclosures per channel so I'll simply link the enclosures in parallel via the speakONs. Didn't have to be this way but why not. Keeping it uniform. smile.gif

Anyways.... the pictures are pretty self explanatory. The only thing I will point out is the holes drilled in the sonotube make it a very tight fit for the speakONs, and the screws that hold them in. This is important to prevent air leaks. Sure you go a bit bigger and use a more silicone, but I myself feel better if I have a nice tight fit PLUS using silicone. I had to tap these in with a screwdriver head. Besides who doesn't like tight?? tongue.gif








Now... this is what happens when you put the carpet on first and focus more on not ripping the carpet than you do lining up your terminals, whatever they may be. You get crooked as crap. Next time I will line these guys up and cut first, then install my carpet and start with the seam at the holes.



This last picture is shows the enclosure with the wheels I put on it. Gives it a 4.25" lift off the floor, and the best part is I never have to lift these things. biggrin.gif


Next up is installing the drivers and then doing it three more times. My amp doesn't get here until the 18th so I have a bit of time. -- Dumb move for this segment? Ummmmm ya... it's 24" diameter but that doesn't equate to 24" of carpet to wrap each enclosure. How much? I don't know because I'm math incompetent, but as soon as I get that sewing tape measure out I'll have my answer. lol.... tongue.gif More soon....

So... I went to the speaker place, Jmac, today to get more carpet. I was laughing at myself with the workers there about how I kept questioning the length when I bought the first piece of carpet. I swore it looked short. Sure enough it was. As I mentioned above my math was off. The answer has something to with PI and circles. Yes that good ol' 3.12 number. tongue.gif

Anyways... got one unit completely finished. I am very pleased with the end build result. I measured Ohm loads to double check wiring and all is good..... 4 ohm loads at the terminals.

Here's some pictures. I'm not going to caption any of them because it's all pretty self explanatory, but if anyone has any input or questions by all means post them.













Today I finished up a 'floater'. Hopefully I won't need to do to much 'floating' but if I do I got wheels! biggrin.gif

These little guys would make great end tables, but I don't have the room. To start I'll place them about 4-5 ft. behind our theater seats in the opening to the L part of the room, which I believe is a the worst shape ever for a smooth response.

I got the speakON connectors dead straight this time. wink.gif






Got the other two completed last night. Ran into a couple little snags, but nothing too bad. Had a couple air leaks, which turned out to be a good thing, around the speaker. The air leaks led to me realizing the screws I was using were going all the way through the basket. So I had to take out all the screws and replace them with a screw head that was a bit wider.

I also replaced all the weather stripping I was using to seal these guys with a rope caulk. Rope caulk for the win!


This is the rope caulk, for those who aren't familiar with it. I was not familiar with just how good of a job it does at sealing the driver to the enclosure.


Don't use the screw on the right. I've always used that type screw, but these baskets used on a lot the 18" drivers have larger holes.

I know it probably doesn't matter, but I prefer this type of polyfill. There were several to chose from at the fabric store. I weighed it on a digital kitchen scale, .5 lbs per cubic foot. A little trick - stuff the bag and then compress it while at the same time cutting off air. It will stay compressed making it easy to weigh.


I can't wait to have my theater back.


You can see where the shorter, one driver enclosures, will go. That's about 4.5-5 ft behind the row of seats. Dogs are going to have to find a new home. smile.gif


The build is DONE! Next up is tuning. See below for that journey. smile.gif

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In this section I will post REW graphs and tuning info.

I have two dual opposed, one in each corner of the front of my theater.

Then about 5ft behind the row of theater chairs I have two single driver cabinets.

All are powered by a Peavy IPR2 7500 and in line is a mini-dsp, balanced version, set to 0.9 input volts.
___________________________________________________________
10/22/13

I set the gain structure today using this guide - I'll admit I didn't read a lot of it, but read a decent amount. Add in the mini dsp input sensitivity option and it can become a time consuming task for someone who doesn't do this all the time.

http://www.hometheatershack.com/forums/home-theater-receivers-processors-amps/35677-gain-structure-home-theater-getting-most-pro-audio-equipment-your-system.html

Also took a piece from Ricci from this post. --- The part about using 80% of max AVR volume if the only tool you are using is a volt meter. Basically you can assume that @ 80% max volume you are close to the point of clipping the AVR under the gain structure setting steps.

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1330718/how-to-set-gain-structure-properly/30#post_20495397

Here is the best info I found on the mini-dsp input setting-

http://www.minidsp.com/forum/minidsp-for-newbies/5163-re-how-to-setup-input-level

I tried both input settings, 2.0 volts and .9 volts. I went with the .9 volts as it was a much better match. The point of clipping is -6db on the input side.

Here's some REW graphs. NOTE: I trip my dedicated 20 amp breaker before I begin to show signs of any compression. The subs have more, they just need more juice. At least for sine waves. biggrin.gif I didn't have time to play with any movies and the music I played with yesterday tripped the breaker, but that was before the gain setup..... not sure if that's going to matter. frown.gif

Also, check out page seven for detailed data I acquired during the gain structure process.

My room gives no love, but the good part is I basically know where to put what.

I believe the problem is the wall directly behind the LP. Move the mic over to the more open L part of the room and things get better. It is what it is. At least with these subs I know the DBs are there, I just need to dial them in. wink.gif

This graph is after I did all the gain structuring and level calibrating with the .9 input setting on the mini. It was one of the last measurements for the night. I will pick up from here when I start back up. I ran out of electricity before the subs ran out of juice.



Here is an average of all my LPs. The mic was placed on each side of each chair at ear level. The test was done at a calibrated 80 db.




Here's one of the earlier graphs for the day. I ran it until the breaker tripped too. I'm not sure why the peak was more DB here vs. the first graph. The only thing I played around with was the time delay and volume settings in the mini dsp. I believe this was at a 3.5 ms setting on the two rear single cab subs and 0 on the front subs.

I know it looks like a couple of tests show compressing, but for some reason I only increased 4db at a time. I can't remember why, but there was a reason. I tripped the breaker on the next test, but didn't keep the measurement.



Ya...... still got that lovely null ~50 hz. biggrin.gif

You can see the line on the last graph above. I started the tests at 80 db and moved up from there. So that shows you the peaks and dips I'm dealing with.


I'm off to Hawaii for a week on Thursday so this is it for a while. smile.gif

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DONE

I settled on the Mini-DSP. That was really hard as I honestly feel they're product documentation is seriously lacking, at the least. But, in the end it had the tools I needed to get the job done.

I still need to monitor the inputs of the mini while watching a couple demo discs and some bass heavy music, but I'm pretty confident I've dialed things in so that clipping the minis inputs won't be an issue. For those reading this in future...... If you're going to play with the Mini-Dsp, be aware of it's technical needs. Do your research, especially on input levels and clipping, gain structure and the like.

Now.... onto the final graphs.

These were taken at 0 on the AVR which is calibrated for 75 db all channels. It hits reference with ease and clarity. If I run 10 db hot at reference (which I've found with good clean bass I will never do) I clip the crap out of the mini-dsp. Looking into getting their 2x8 board that handles more input.

I didn't save compression graphs, but I should have. I kind of lost interest because at the 115 db measure I pop the breaker. rolleyes.gif

The system should be good for 125 DB at the LP easy without power limitations.

My seat-



All four seats. Not too bad considering it's four seats that over 12 ft long and half of them sit in front of a wall 4 ft behind them and the other half sit in front of a large opening that goes back 8 ft.



Waterfall


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Ep4000 is great to power those. The crowns u mention have a 20 hz hpf so your sealeds won't dig as deep as they could. Any reason for not going with the recommended 6-7 cu ft enclosure per sub that winisd recommends?
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Headed down to watch a movie...... all this talk has me wanting something loud. And then I think of Poppalock......... rolleyes.gif

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That’s a incredible price on sono, I never herd of it so cheap! So tell me, are all these sono’s going to be sealed? I take it they are.

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Quote:
Originally Posted by wormraper View Post

Ep4000 is great to power those. The crowns u mention have a 20 hz hpf so your sealeds won't dig as deep as they could. Any reason for not going with the recommended 6-7 cu ft enclosure per sub that winisd recommends?

Thanks will look into the EP. I will need two though. One thing that concerns me is the guys at a speaker building shop I was at two days ago said run from anything behringer. They recommended Crest, Adcom, and Transnova. I've yet to look at anything but the adcom, which seem low powered and very high qual.

The recommended size on SI site is 4^3 per driver. The DIY flat packs are 4^3. That's the reason I went with the size I did.

These are sealed......... are you saying winisd calls for 6-7^3 sealed?

I read of so many putting these in sealed ~ 4^3 enclosures I just went with it.

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Quote:
Originally Posted by steve nn View Post

That’s a incredible price on sono, I never herd of it so cheap! So tell me, are all these sono’s going to be sealed? I take it they are.

Yes, sealed. Just corrected my first post. wink.gif

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Quote:
Originally Posted by steve nn View Post

That’s a incredible price on sono, I never herd of it so cheap! So tell me, are all these sono’s going to be sealed? I take it they are.
Sonotubes.pdf 62k .pdf file

I was blown away. I hope I didn't get the wrong crap......
Attached Files
File Type: pdf Sonotubes.pdf (62.1 KB, 56 views)

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The ep and the inuke series are good power houses and are the go to power amps around here. I've never used one myself but a lot of people around here swear by them.

Winisd plots the optimal size for the 18 at 6.4 cu feet. The QTS is raised and you lose a couple of DVS per sub at 4 cu ft
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Oh and that's the going price on so no around here. About $100 per 12 feet
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4 cu ft sealed is just fine if you are going for higher power. a little larger would be fine with 600-700 watts or so.

if you get the dual 4 ohm, and wire for 8 ohms per sub, three of those wired in parallel give 2.67 ohms. so...3 drivers in parallel per channel.

that would work well with something like the cv5000 amplifier. that would give somewhere around 2100 watts per side or about 700 watts per driver.

http://www.cerwinvega.com/pro-audio/high-performance-amplifiers/cv-5000.html

in 4 cubic feet per driver, 700 watts only pushes them to 17mm at 20hz, so no risk of damage, but a little excursion left on the table (xmax is around 22mm).

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post #15 of 268 Old 09-06-2013, 09:56 PM - Thread Starter
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Ya I've a lot of people going for 4^3 and the SI website says Recommended enclosures: 18"
Sealed = 4 ft^3.

I can't wire three to the same channel because two will be in front of the theater (the dual opposed) and the third would be in back of the theater.

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Quote:
Originally Posted by LTD02 View Post

4 cu ft sealed is just fine if you are going for higher power. a little larger would be fine with 600-700 watts or so.

if you get the dual 4 ohm, and wire for 8 ohms per sub, three of those wired in parallel give 2.67 ohms. so...3 drivers in parallel per channel.

that would work well with something like the cv5000 amplifier. that would give somewhere around 2100 watts per side or about 700 watts per driver.

http://www.cerwinvega.com/pro-audio/high-performance-amplifiers/cv-5000.html

in 4 cubic feet per driver, 700 watts only pushes them to 17mm at 20hz, so no risk of damage, but a little excursion left on the table (xmax is around 22mm).

very true. I was plotting it at 700 watts (single channel) .... at 1000 watts per driver you're only losing 0.8 DB at 20 hz with a 4 cubic foot box
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Sonotubes.pdf 62k .pdf file

I was blown away. I hope I didn't get the wrong crap......

Yeah that’s normal like suggested. For some reason I was thinking you had 5-6 units going at around 5-6’ per unit. I must have been looking at cu ft or something?smile.gif Anyway it’s right there in your pic. I was going by a quick glance regarding your post in the other thread.

Once you get everything fig out the first suggestion I would make is to be sure to go with a router that has plunge capability, my next suggestion would be to wrap the edges of your sono with blue painters tape. Although not necessary, it can be helpful in keeping the edges from fraying while test fitting.

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I can't remember who did the tests, but the Peavey IPR2 amps tested well for rolloff.

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Here is a sketch of the how the subs will be placed.

I will put amplifier suggestions in one of the reserved spots and research/eliminate them one by one.

I would also like input on whether or not it would be a wise to use one amp in stereo mode. Utilizing one channel for the near fields and the other for the dual opposed.


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Originally Posted by steve nn View Post


Once you get everything fig out the first suggestion I would make is to be sure to go with a router that has plunge capability, my next suggestion would be to wrap the edges of your sono with blue painters tape. Although not necessary, it can be helpful in keeping the edges from fraying while test fitting.

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Perfect thanks. How much HP should the router have to cut the MDF, and be sufficient for future projects?

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Perfect thanks. How much HP should the router have to cut the MDF, and be sufficient for future projects?

a 1 and 1/4hp should be enough, but I'd get at least a 1.5 hp motor.... more future proof for heavier duty projects
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Originally Posted by LTD02 View Post

4 cu ft sealed is just fine if you are going for higher power. a little larger would be fine with 600-700 watts or so.

if you get the dual 4 ohm, and wire for 8 ohms per sub, three of those wired in parallel give 2.67 ohms. so...3 drivers in parallel per channel.

that would work well with something like the cv5000 amplifier. that would give somewhere around 2100 watts per side or about 700 watts per driver.

http://www.cerwinvega.com/pro-audio/high-performance-amplifiers/cv-5000.html

in 4 cubic feet per driver, 700 watts only pushes them to 17mm at 20hz, so no risk of damage, but a little excursion left on the table (xmax is around 22mm).

I thought each time you wire in parallel you cut the ohm load in half. So wiring three 8ohm drivers in parallel would be 2 ohms. How do you come up with 2.67?

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hyrlyfrm View Post

I can't remember who did the tests, but the Peavey IPR2 amps tested well for rolloff.

Just read gorillas peavy 7500 thread. Got my attention. Those test you speak of are in that thread.

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1478788/new-amp-choice-for-sub-duty-cv5000-or-peavey-ipr7500/120

I would be looking at the IPR2 5000, from the posts in that thread it seems its just as good as the 7500..... Just less power.

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"I thought each time you wire in parallel you cut the ohm load in half. So wiring three 8ohm drivers in parallel would be 2 ohms. How do you come up with 2.67?"

you are right that it would be 2 ohms if there were 4 drivers, but in this case there are 3 per channel.

the equation is: 1 / sum (1/r)

example (using 8 ohm drivers):

for one driver:

1 / (1/8) = 1 / (1/8) = 8/1 = 8.00 ohms

for two drivers:

1 / (1/8 + 1/8) = 1 / (2/8) = 8/2 = 4.00 ohms

for three drivers:

1 / (1/8 + 1/8 + 1/8) = 1 / (3/8) = 8/3 = 2.67 ohms

for four drivers:

1 / (1/8 + 1/8 + 1/8 + 1/8) = 1 / (4/8) = 8/4 = 2.00 ohms

I never really thought it out like that, but just plop the resistance in the numerator and the number of drivers in the denominator and BANG! net resistance for parallel wiring.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LTD02 View Post

"I thought each time you wire in parallel you cut the ohm load in half. So wiring three 8ohm drivers in parallel would be 2 ohms. How do you come up with 2.67?"

you are right that it would be 2 ohms if there were 4 drivers, but in this case there are 3 per channel.

the equation is: 1 / sum (1/r)

example (using 8 ohm drivers):

for one driver:

1 / (1/8) = 1 / (1/8) = 8/1 = 8.00 ohms

for two drivers:

1 / (1/8 + 1/8) = 1 / (2/8) = 8/2 = 4.00 ohms

for three drivers:

1 / (1/8 + 1/8 + 1/8) = 1 / (3/8) = 8/3 = 2.67 ohms

for four drivers:

1 / (1/8 + 1/8 + 1/8 + 1/8) = 1 / (4/8) = 8/4 = 2.00 ohms

I never really thought it out like that, but just plop the resistance in the numerator and the number of drivers in the denominator and BANG! net resistance for parallel wiring.

Alrighty.... first thank you. I had no doubt you were right, but just needed an explanation. Second... I am mathematical dummy, but that formula is awesome. Reminds me of just about the time I quit math. smile.gif Numerator and denominator .... been a while.

I always thought each time you added a woofer in parallel it chopped the load in half.

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"I can't wire three to the same channel because two will be in front of the theater (the dual opposed) and the third would be in back of the theater."

that's no problem. the cv5000 is stable to 2 ohms per channel, so if you went with the dual 4 ohm drivers, it could look like this:

for the cv5000:
Channel A: FOUR drivers up front. each driver's coils wired in series for 8 ohms per driver. within each cabinet, drivers would be wired in parallel for a net of 4 ohm's per dual opposed cab. then 2 cabs would be wired in parallel for a net of 2 ohms. that would provide approximately 2500 watts total on the channel, or about 625 watts per driver to the front four.

Channel B: TWO drivers out back. each driver's coils wired in series for 8 ohms per driver. two drivers wired in parallel for a net of 4 ohms. that would provide approximately 1800 watts total on the channel, or about 900 watts per driver to the back two.

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Quote:
Originally Posted by LTD02 View Post

"I can't wire three to the same channel because two will be in front of the theater (the dual opposed) and the third would be in back of the theater."

that's no problem. the cv5000 is stable to 2 ohms per channel, so if you went with the dual 4 ohm drivers, it could look like this:

for the cv5000:
Channel A: FOUR drivers up front. each driver's coils wired in series for 8 ohms per driver. within each cabinet, drivers would be wired in parallel for a net of 4 ohm's per dual opposed cab. then 2 cabs would be wired in parallel for a net of 2 ohms. that would provide approximately 2500 watts total on the channel, or about 625 watts per driver to the front four.

Channel B: TWO drivers out back. each driver's coils wired in series for 8 ohms per driver. two drivers wired in parallel for a net of 4 ohms. that would provide approximately 1800 watts total on the channel, or about 900 watts per driver to the back two.

Sounds good. Here is a concern (or is it?).... what happens if the back two singles need to be separated to smooth the response (my room is a nightmare). Will not having the ability to level match the back two be a problem?

Having the back two side by side near field I can gain match them, or they will be gain matched since on the same channel. But if I have to move one back 7ft one will be quieter then the other at the MLP.

I'm really liking the Peavy IPR2 5000, although I'll get ~ 300 less watts at 4 ohm stereo I'll get just above 2500 watts at 2ohm stereo.

It's a 100.00 cheaper too.

For that matter I could grab the Peavy 7500 for the same price of the cv-500 and end up with about 1000 watts per driver. Which sounds like it might work better with the smaller enclosures I'm using.

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Look up the Adcom GFA 555 II. you can get them used for 350-400.00 and they are one of the most robust power amps ever made.

http://www.kenrockwell.com/audio/adcom/gfa-555-ii.htm
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Look up the Adcom GFA 555 II. you can get them used for 350-400.00 and they are one of the most robust power amps ever made.

Good call Bass....... though I'm not sure they're for me.

At a local speaker/pro audio shop I was at the other day that's all they talked about. Adcom this and Adcom that. They suggested the 555 2 and the 585 5800.

They also suggested Crest 3800.

I gotta tell you though...... there shop was also loaded with Peavy gear and they said Peavy is great stuff. I mentioned Behringer and they just cringed.

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For the same price as the 83 lb eek.gif CV-5000 I can get the 14 lb Peavy 7500. Here's the spec sheets for both.

I think I will go with the Peavy unless someone thinks going with a one amp setup in my situation would be a bad idea.

Using LTDs wiring would also allow me to get all 4 ohm DVC. I am little concerned about using 2ohms on one channel and 4 ohms on the other, but I trust the advise here is solid.



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