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post #271 of 1010 Old 09-23-2013, 10:37 PM
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Originally Posted by LTD02 View Post

that's insane man! looks like a freak'n museum in there. the marty was supposed to be a simple build that anybody could do and you go and pull that!?! :-)~for you finish gurus: http://www.htguide.com/forum/showthread.php?23810-Dayton-RS-sub-project-Assault-on-SQi'd never put water on mdf, but that is just me.
You.wipe it on with a cloth. By the time.you.sand.it off it was like.it was.never.there ..been doing it for.20 years.
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post #272 of 1010 Old 09-23-2013, 10:49 PM
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i'm not doubting that it works. just saying that there is a risk factor if not done properly.

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post #273 of 1010 Old 09-23-2013, 10:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LTD02 View Post

that's insane man! looks like a freak'n museum in there. the marty was supposed to be a simple build that anybody could do and you go and pull that!?! :-)~

for you finish gurus: http://www.htguide.com/forum/showthread.php?23810-Dayton-RS-sub-project-Assault-on-SQ

i'd never put water on mdf, but that is just me.

LOL, no kidding. that's CRAZY on the bracing (though overkill is under rated biggrin.gif )


and I have ONE more question before I fall asleep... I have like a TEENSY bit of titebond II left for gluing in a couple braces... but I have a GALLON of Titebond original carpenters glue that we have lying around. is the original formula strong enough for gluing in cross braces? I've only used the titebond II blue bottle before so I didn't wanna compromise the mission for just a $5 bottle of glue, but if titebond original works well for that application I'd rather NOT have to make another tripe 30 minutes away for another bottle of glue.

(we always used screws or bran nails in our THT's and tapped horn builds but that WAS with birch)
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post #274 of 1010 Old 09-24-2013, 02:03 AM
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I have one dumb question again. I'm just a little nervous since I got lambasted on another forum for using spax screws to aid with the clamping... basically just countersunk all screws and added screws in between the clamps to add a little more pressure while the glue dried. on another forum (that shall not be named) I got lambasted for it saying that I should never use screws in mdf because they won't ever hold and will actually compromise my glue line... did I just mess-up an entire sub project due to using screws to aid the clamps?
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post #275 of 1010 Old 09-24-2013, 02:46 AM
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don't have a heart attack. it is fine.

sounds like somebody may have just misunderstood what you said. that would be my first guess.

the only potential problem that i can even think of is if you didn't pre drill or used the wrong screw type as that can actually push the panels APART.

maybe that is what the other person was thinking.




.

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post #276 of 1010 Old 09-24-2013, 02:49 AM
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Originally Posted by LTD02 View Post

don't have a heart attack. it is fine.

kewl, I just got a little nervous since besides my tiny cheap thrills build I've never used mdf before. only birch or arauco... I was just taken aback when several guys started going off on screws in mdf and how it would weaken the glue bond by creating holes in the mdf that would act as leaks over time. didn't make sense to me but I thought I'd better ask the speaker gods wink.gif
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post #277 of 1010 Old 09-24-2013, 03:03 AM
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maybe this is what they were talking about?

http://woodworkingtips.com/etips/etip090800sn.html

which would of course be the wrong way to do it anyway and is kind of the whole reason these exist:

http://www.spax.us/en/mdf-hardwood-screws.html

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post #278 of 1010 Old 09-24-2013, 03:09 AM
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Originally Posted by LTD02 View Post

maybe this is what they were talking about?

http://woodworkingtips.com/etips/etip090800sn.html

which would of course be the wrong way to do it anyway and is kind of the whole reason these exist:

http://www.spax.us/en/mdf-hardwood-screws.html

dunno, but yeah, I'm using a very simlar screw to the mdf screws that you linked to. I'm def not using a tapered screw (the shank is no wider than the threads and I think the threads are actually a bit wider)

these are the exact ones

http://www.homedepot.com/p/SPAX-8-x-1-1-4-in-Coarse-Yellow-Zinc-T-Star-Plus-Flat-Head-Torx-Wood-Screws-240-Pack-4191020400326/202040967#.UkFki4bOmE1

all holes are countersunk and pre-drilled
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post #279 of 1010 Old 09-24-2013, 03:39 AM
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well, your method was overkill because you used the proper straight shank, self tapping, screws and pre-drilled (and glued). the other guys may not even realize the different types of screws exist and just read about some bad experiences and were trying to be helpful.

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post #280 of 1010 Old 09-24-2013, 07:21 AM
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The problem with mdf and screws is the edge grain will split. Once it splits and you tighten it together it is difficult to suck the two pieces together. Not all mdf is the same, there is actually several different types with rangerboard being one of them. If pre-drilled properly the chance of splitting is minimized but may still happen. I went with plywood because I wanted a finish and its easier to use with nails and screws. I am sure you will be just fine worm.wink.gif
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post #281 of 1010 Old 09-24-2013, 09:46 AM
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Originally Posted by chalugadp View Post

The problem with mdf and screws is the edge grain will split. Once it splits and you tighten it together it is difficult to suck the two pieces together. Not all mdf is the same, there is actually several different types with rangerboard being one of them. If pre-drilled properly the chance of splitting is minimized but may still happen. I went with plywood because I wanted a finish and its easier to use with nails and screws. I am sure you will be just fine worm.wink.gif

lol, yeah we made that mistake with one panel near and edge, had to poo wood glue in that tiny split and clamp the crap out of it for good measure. I was just confused by their statements wondering if I was missing something important,
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post #282 of 1010 Old 09-24-2013, 09:47 AM
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Originally Posted by wormraper View Post

I have one dumb question again. I'm just a little nervous since I got lambasted on another forum for using spax screws to aid with the clamping... basically just countersunk all screws and added screws in between the clamps to add a little more pressure while the glue dried. on another forum (that shall not be named) I got lambasted for it saying that I should never use screws in mdf because they won't ever hold and will actually compromise my glue line... did I just mess-up an entire sub project due to using screws to aid the clamps?

Without going into detail about your question since it has been answered.. I have seen people saying all kinds of things in the DIY forum or other forums saying you can’t do this or you can’t do that. Or you have to do this or have to do that. Some say your sub will sound better if you do.. Over the course of time I have learned some of them are true (sometimes the hard way) and some are not. I generally don’t say anything because I don’t want the hassle or don’t have to be right in pushing my opinion or thought learned by experience or backed by physics. Much of the time it has only to do with preference anyway. The last sub I built was out of material I never would have considered a few years ago and with the use of no clamps due to I still need to pick them up. Don’t get me wrong, clamps are a good thing, the sub I built was on the smaller side and I wasn’t in my reg shop. Anyway just sayin..
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post #283 of 1010 Old 09-25-2013, 05:18 AM - Thread Starter
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I got my router back now, and my Jasper Jig should be here tomorrow so that I can finish the baffles! I am going to start on the slot port today, and make it 3" by 22.5" by 28"....does that sound right?

I also got my speakon connecters in yesterday as well. With regards to the speakon connections, are you supposed to take those small screws completely out, then insert the wire and put the screw back in after you have the wire in the hole? Or are you supposed to just loosen the screws-install the wire-then tighten the screws back down w/o taking them all the way out? I don't think my speakon connecters are Nuetric or what ever that brand was as I just ordered what Parts Express recommended w/o thinking about the brand. They don't have a +1 -1 listed on the plug, only +2 & -2. Strange, I know.

With regardes to cutting the baffle, it is my understanding that I drill a hole in the baffle directly in the middle, attached a screw to that hole in order to hold the end of the Jasper Jig in place, adjust the settings on the Jasper Jig to come out to a 16.7" hole. My questions are how do you go about getting the router bit in the wood for the begining of the cut? Do you drill a hole with a drill, then place the straight cut bit into the hole? Also, how do I get the router to cut the actual hole, and what inch setting should I adjust the Jig to in order to cut the actual hole, versus the drivers recessed lip that it mounts onto? That is what I am having trouble with.
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post #284 of 1010 Old 09-25-2013, 05:55 AM
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Martycool007, regarding baffle cuttingng you willl cut the basket sized hole in each of the 2 front baffles. Do drill the hole for the center pin. It is best to have a plunge router do this kind of routing, but it can be done with a standard fixed based. For fixed based slowly lower the blade onto the work. Be sure you only take a 1/4" of material with each pass, obviously you will make several passes adding 1/4" per pass to the cutting depth. For flush mounting cut the outer baffle at the width of the driver to a depth of the flush mount first, then cut the basket sized cut out. This gives you the exact same center for each cut.

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post #285 of 1010 Old 09-25-2013, 06:15 AM
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For fixed based slowly lower the blade onto the work.

As Rick said. If no plunge, you especially want your first pass to be very shallow due to when you seat your router the bit wont go beyond the cutting perimeters due to there is going to be a slight angle when dropping your bit into the material.

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post #286 of 1010 Old 09-25-2013, 06:41 AM
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btw, a router isn't the only way to cut the driver cutout. a jigsaw works just fine, particularly here where the driver is not flush mounted or anything. maybe that would be easier and save the router for finish work.

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post #287 of 1010 Old 09-25-2013, 06:54 AM
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Originally Posted by LTD02 View Post

btw, a router isn't the only way to cut the driver cutout. a jigsaw works just fine, particularly here where the driver is not flush mounted or anything. maybe that would be easier and save the router for finish work.

Yeah that works fine on the inside cutout except I would suggest a guy practice on a mock cutout to get familiar with the process of a jig. They can be a little tricky like a router can be at times when doing round cutting.

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post #288 of 1010 Old 09-25-2013, 07:35 AM
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"Yeah that works fine on the inside cutout"

???

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post #289 of 1010 Old 09-25-2013, 07:57 AM
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I can cut with a jigsaw and you would think its a router but you need a steady hand biggrin.gif
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post #290 of 1010 Old 09-25-2013, 08:02 AM
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Originally Posted by chalugadp View Post

I can cut with a jigsaw and you would think its a router but you need a steady hand biggrin.gif

biggrin.gif Lol.. There you go! I could post some pics of projects I have come across useing a jig but uhhh that wouldn't be nice. biggrin.gif The driver does cover it up though in the end.

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post #291 of 1010 Old 09-25-2013, 08:10 AM
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"The driver does cover it up though in the end."

that's all I was getting at for this kind of build. :-)

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post #292 of 1010 Old 09-25-2013, 08:33 AM
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"Yeah that works fine on the inside cutout"

???

I think he's means it would only work on the inside cut, but not on a wider cut like a flush mount cut.
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post #293 of 1010 Old 09-25-2013, 08:49 AM
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"The driver does cover it up though in the end."

that's all I was getting at for this kind of build. :-)

That's the way I took it anyway. Not sure where I went wrong? smile.gif
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I think he's means it would only work on the inside cut, but not on a wider cut like a flush mount cut.

Thanks worm

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post #294 of 1010 Old 09-25-2013, 08:51 AM - Thread Starter
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Ok, so I plan to build a new enclosure #1 as this mornings unexpected rain shower has messed up the MDF of my enclosure #1 frown.gif

Thankfully I have enough of the 2' by 4' MDF handy panels to build a new enclosure, no problem. But first, let me make sure that I have the assembly process down correctly.

The sides rest on top the bottom, then the top rest on top the sides. The rear panel rest on top the bottom panel with the top panel rest on top the rear panel, and the rear panel fits in between the sides, right?

Then the front baffle rest inbetween the sides, with the top panel resting on top of the front baffle and the front baffle rest on top the bottom panel. Is that right?
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post #295 of 1010 Old 09-25-2013, 08:54 AM
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Ok, so I plan to build a new enclosure #1 as this mornings unexpected rain shower has messed up the MDF of my enclosure #1 frown.gif

What eek.gif All the work you have put in down the tubes! You seam to be taking it good. Did it get rained on? I guess it did, so sorry about that. mad.gif

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post #296 of 1010 Old 09-25-2013, 09:00 AM
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The sides rest on top the bottom, then the top rest on top the sides. The rear panel rest on top the bottom panel with the top panel rest on top the rear panel, and the rear panel fits in between the sides, right?

Then the front baffle rest inbetween the sides, with the top panel resting on top of the front baffle and the front baffle rest on top the bottom panel. Is that right?

Now there is a brain twister. I totally get it but it would be best for worm or LTD to tackle that. I’m not as familiar with your build as they are.

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post #297 of 1010 Old 09-25-2013, 09:02 AM
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Originally Posted by Martycool007 View Post

Ok, so I plan to build a new enclosure #1 as this mornings unexpected rain shower has messed up the MDF of my enclosure #1 frown.gif

Thankfully I have enough of the 2' by 4' MDF handy panels to build a new enclosure, no problem. But first, let me make sure that I have the assembly process down correctly.

The sides rest on top the bottom, then the top rest on top the sides. The rear panel rest on top the bottom panel with the top panel rest on top the rear panel, and the rear panel fits in between the sides, right?

Then the front baffle rest inbetween the sides, with the top panel resting on top of the front baffle and the front baffle rest on top the bottom panel. Is that right?

correct.
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post #298 of 1010 Old 09-25-2013, 09:03 AM
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"I think he's means it would only work on the inside cut, but not on a wider cut like a flush mount cut."

we are all on the same page. my point was simply that there is no flush mount cut out on the marty sub! :-)

.........................

sorry to hear about that marty. just a temporary set back i'm sure.

since you have the panels, you can just dry fit it to see how it goes together.

for the marty sub we were talking about in post #18 http://www.avsforum.com/t/1489541/large-ported-dayton-ho18s#post_23711347

"The sides rest on top the bottom, then the top rest on top the sides."

check!

"The rear panel rest on top the bottom panel with the top panel rest on top the rear panel, and the rear panel fits in between the sides, right?"

check!

"Then the front baffle rest inbetween the sides, with the top panel resting on top of the front baffle"

check!

"and the front baffle rest on top the bottom panel."

almost. the front baffle rests on top of the slot panel. the slot panel sits on top of the slot braces. the slot braces sit on top of the bottom panel, but i'm sure that is what you meant.

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post #299 of 1010 Old 09-25-2013, 09:08 AM
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we are all on the same page. my point was simply that there is no flush mount cut out on the marty sub! :-)

Oh didn’t you see that we changed that? worm wanted to try something different, a new technic if you will. biggrin.gif

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post #300 of 1010 Old 09-25-2013, 09:29 AM
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by the way marty, back in post 18 about half way down the page, there is a marty sub "one cut" version that while being just slightly different in shape doesn't require hardly any cutting at all. also, a cut sheet is provided. just in case that would be easier.

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