Large Ported Dayton HO18's - Page 13 - AVS Forum
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post #361 of 1010 Old 10-04-2013, 03:48 PM
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I started my Marty build .

Amazing it looks so small when seperated.

Framing square helps to get the tight fit.

Love my cordless dewalt drills. Having two makes it easier .

Installed the port . Its a good idea to leave the front baffle cutting until after the box is up to this stage. The front baffle.has to fit flush. I have them cut , which just leaves the bracing , and some minor caulking. Then I will make the tabletop and install some trim.

The inuke comes next Wednesday and will complete marty by next Friday. smile.gif
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post #362 of 1010 Old 10-04-2013, 03:52 PM
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AWESOME!

it is a total invasion of MARTY SUBS!

like the monoliths in 2010... :-)

what length port did you choose and which tuning are you shooting for, looks like 42" x 3" @ 16hz?

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post #363 of 1010 Old 10-04-2013, 03:59 PM
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AWESOME!

it is a total invasion of MARTY SUBS!

like the monoliths in 2010... :-)

what length port did you choose and which tuning are you shooting for, looks like 42" x 3" @ 16hz?

Its 36" long with height 2 and 7/8". Anywhere 14-17hz is fine. I'm going to woodburn your name on bottom Ltd !
This sub is going to look great and rumble !
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post #364 of 1010 Old 10-04-2013, 04:07 PM
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36" is great. little tricky guessing the length from the pic. should come in around 16-17hz (at least that's my best guess based on all of what we've learned and what has been built and measured so far).

"I'm going to woodburn your name on bottom Ltd !"

lol. marty sub signature series! that's priceless, thanks!

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post #365 of 1010 Old 10-04-2013, 04:54 PM - Thread Starter
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Finished my first Marty Sub late last night! Going to bring this huge bad boy inside tomorrow afternoon to hook it up for a listen, then I will work on staining it next week. Should have the other one finished by next weekend!
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post #366 of 1010 Old 10-04-2013, 05:36 PM
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pictures marty pictures! yours is the original!

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post #367 of 1010 Old 10-04-2013, 06:15 PM
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pictures marty pictures! yours is the original!

Yeah cmon marty !!! biggrin.gif
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post #368 of 1010 Old 10-04-2013, 11:58 PM
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Finished my first Marty Sub late last night! Going to bring this huge bad boy inside tomorrow afternoon to hook it up for a listen, then I will work on staining it next week. Should have the other one finished by next weekend!

Let's see the beast Marty!!
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post #369 of 1010 Old 10-05-2013, 12:21 AM
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Just curious what speakers you have Ltd ? Are they your own DIY design ? redface.gif
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post #370 of 1010 Old 10-05-2013, 03:06 AM
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Just curious what speakers you have Ltd ? Are they your own DIY design ? redface.gif

Haha, i wondered when someone would ask.
The first person to lend a hand when someone needs help, but we never hear about his gear wink.gif
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post #371 of 1010 Old 10-05-2013, 03:10 AM - Thread Starter
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I will post pictures tonight after I get home from work! I still have not finished the outside, it's made out of Birch, so I am planning on staining it a deep dark almost ebony color. I am 80% finished with the second Marty Sub too!
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post #372 of 1010 Old 10-05-2013, 11:39 PM
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Here is some more misinformation:


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post #373 of 1010 Old 10-06-2013, 12:37 AM
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I wanna build a Martysub just for the fun of it. I love giant speakers.

+2 on LTD, always one of the first ones to help others. Pictures LTD, pictures
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post #374 of 1010 Old 10-06-2013, 01:30 AM
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OK, I did a little more research on vented enclosure near field measurements and discovered this Klippel Application Note 38 which describes both the measurement method and the summation of the driver outputs to create the equivalent system response. Essentially you take the sum of the port output and the woofer output weighted by the square root of their relative area. I did this in REW by applying the weighting factor converted to dB and then added the two resultant waveforms using REW add function.

Total Radiation Area of Ports = 42 in^2
Sd of Dayton RSS460HO = 180 in^2
System Total Radiating Area = 222 in^2

Port Weight factor = SQUARE ROOT (42/222) = 0.435 = -3.6 dB
Woofer Wgt factor = SQUARE ROOT(180/222) = 0.900 = -0.5 dB




Edit 10-11-13 >> Not sure the exact value, but the curves above suggest I had a crossover set in the 80-120 Hz range, rather than the AVR max setting of 250 Hz. Some of my subsequent graphs show greater extension in the upper frequencies. I'm still learning all the places I need to adjust settings between listening and testing... tongue.gif
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post #375 of 1010 Old 10-06-2013, 11:10 AM
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that doesn't look quite right...

the port nearfield should have its peak at the same frequency that the driver has its dip.

the port nearfield should have a much higher spl than the driver if the port area is much smaller than the driver.

also, the klippel equation is for far field, aka 4 pi space.

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post #376 of 1010 Old 10-06-2013, 01:29 PM
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OK, as I said, misinformation...eek.gif

I'll remeasure the port with the mic an inch deep in the port and see what I come up with.

What formula, that I can implement within REW, should I use to sum the outputs?

I appreciate the guidance, as I know enough to misinform and little more...

Mike
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post #377 of 1010 Old 10-06-2013, 02:05 PM
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Back to basics: Near Field Woofer (mic ~ 1cm from dust cap) with and without port stuffed.............Near Field Port, mic 2in inside port

. . . .
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post #378 of 1010 Old 10-06-2013, 02:21 PM
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those look good.

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post #379 of 1010 Old 10-06-2013, 02:29 PM
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OK, making progress on the measuring front. Thanks!

But the peaks at the tuning frequency still align, rather than a peak and a null...
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post #380 of 1010 Old 10-06-2013, 02:34 PM
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that may just be the resolution is too low in the sweep

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post #381 of 1010 Old 10-06-2013, 03:25 PM
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once you have the two files in rew, click on "controls" in the upper right to launch the control box

adjust measurement offset to match the levels (this is kind of arbitrary, so just experiment).

the click "add offset to data" this will not only change how the data are displayed, but will actually change the datapoints.

then choose trace arithmetic A + B and click generate.

that should give you a decent summation of the two sources.


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post #382 of 1010 Old 10-06-2013, 07:05 PM
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OK, John, the boys are right we need to know what you are running! You are helping virtually everyone on this forum. If you haven't built your own yet I would volunteer to build some for you. I am about to start my build with the first two SI HT-18s. I would gladly build whatever you desire if you just buy the parts. I still can't decide on dual "Vertical Marty" or quad sealed. I need to decide soon I plan to start next week. I have two drivers in already in the house. I have been running a Hsu VTF-15 and a Klipsch RSW-12. I think I want to try sealed with EQ and tons of power, but the "Vertical Marty" is tempting.

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post #383 of 1010 Old 10-06-2013, 07:24 PM
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OK. Here is what I get, same weighting as before:




Here is a summation with port arbitrarily adjusted down 9 dB. WinISD model shows port gain peaks at -6.7 dB, so I guess -9 dB is a reasonable value for the port contribution...

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post #384 of 1010 Old 10-06-2013, 07:43 PM
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that is a kind offer rick, but where would the fun in that be!? :-) as for my equipment, i'm stuck in a 'temporary' living situation where i simply can't enjoy any audio-video gear, so i have given it all away. sorry if that disappoints...av is (was) one of my favorite things.

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post #385 of 1010 Old 10-06-2013, 07:45 PM
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that is a kind offer rick, but where would the fun in that be!? :-) as for my equipment, i'm stuck in a 'temporary' living situation where i simply can't enjoy any audio-video gear, so i have given it all away. sorry if that disappoints...av is (was) one of my favorite things.

Dude thats not fair ! Ltd what do you make of this post ,

Not myth. Fact. Put the driver in what we recommend and see how much power you can run on it before it reaches Xmax limits. Power handling is not only by Xmax limits. You can thermal a coil without it getting anywhere near Xmax limits with enough power. Again, for what our customers do to our subwoofers we have our recommended enclosures. And again, you can do whatever you want to. Our warranty extends to rated power and covers manufacturers defects, not abuse and/or large enclosures. I know many people (some are friends of mine) who run MUCH larger enclosures than what we recommend with very good results. They also know that if they cook the woofer it is their fault and not under warranty. 

Is Marty box a big risk ? rolleyes.gif
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post #386 of 1010 Old 10-06-2013, 07:50 PM
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"Here is a summation with port arbitrarily adjusted down 9 dB."

that look fantastic.

i'm a little off my game, but the spl from the port and the driver are proportional to their radiating areas. iirc, you have 2x21"=42 in^2 or so of port and about 168 in^2 of driver which is about 4:1 or 12db. since the mic is inside the port subtract a little for that and you are right in the ballpark.
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post #387 of 1010 Old 10-06-2013, 08:11 PM
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John, I can tell that you are obviously hooked on this hobby like the rest of us AVSers. Sorry about the situation and hopefully you can partake in the near future. I think I may speak for the rest that we thank you for all of the insight you offer so freely.

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post #388 of 1010 Old 10-06-2013, 08:21 PM
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"Not myth. Fact. Put the driver in what we recommend and see how much power you can run on it before it reaches Xmax limits. Power handling is not only by Xmax limits. You can thermal a coil without it getting anywhere near Xmax limits with enough power. Again, for what our customers do to our subwoofers we have our recommended enclosures. And again, you can do whatever you want to. Our warranty extends to rated power and covers manufacturers defects, not abuse and/or large enclosures. I know many people (some are friends of mine) who run MUCH larger enclosures than what we recommend with very good results. They also know that if they cook the woofer it is their fault and not under warranty."

"Is Marty box a big risk ?"

maybe he is just tired, but the post is completely backwards in reasoning.

a larger enclosure is *more efficient* than a small enclosure, so the driver requires *less* power for any given spl.

in a large enclosure the voice coil will travel more for a given power as well, which provides greater cooling.

there is *less* risk of cooking a driver in a large enclosure because you don't need to apply a big eq to bring up the bottom end as you would typically do with a small sealed enclosure.

as we take it to mean, the elusive hoffman's iron law states that efficiency, extension, and size of a subwoofer are interrelated such that if you want a sub that play deep, and does so efficiently, it must be large. that is why the marty is large. because there was no compromise made to extension or sensitivity.

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post #389 of 1010 Old 10-06-2013, 08:22 PM
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tks rick.

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post #390 of 1010 Old 10-06-2013, 08:36 PM
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Thanks, LTD!! I appreciate all your help, support and feedback. You have been a tremendous resource for me!

Thanks again,

Mike
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