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post #1 of 40 Old 09-07-2013, 08:39 AM - Thread Starter
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Well after much thinking I decided to build my HT subs. My first choice is between two TC Sounds LMS Ultra 5400 18" DVC Subwoofers or four TC Sounds LMS-R 15" DVC Subwoofers. Not sure if the TC Sounds Axis 15Q1 15" Quad VC Subwoofer has any advantages over the DVC.

After that choice the next choice is sealed, ported, horn or PR's

Next would be the actual cabinet design.....any help in guiding me down the right path would be greatly appreciated!!

FTR, I am totally new to this DIY so please help,,,,Thank you all!!!

Have a Happy and safe New Year!!!
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post #2 of 40 Old 09-07-2013, 08:59 AM
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Have you considered four of these instead?
In four of these?

measure twice, cut once...
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post #3 of 40 Old 09-07-2013, 02:25 PM
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If you want the best of the best then go with two LMS Ultra 18's but I would save myself some cash and pick up four Stereo Integrity 18's like aspd posted.

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post #4 of 40 Old 09-07-2013, 06:36 PM - Thread Starter
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Woah, what a difference in price! Is drop off in quality the same as price? How low do they go in that box?

Have a Happy and safe New Year!!!
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post #5 of 40 Old 09-07-2013, 06:47 PM
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The LMS Ultras are at the top of the heap, but so is the price. SIs are really hot right now with DIYers and SI just lowered the delivered price for the HT-18s to $219 delivered for the month of Sept. You can buy 4 of these for the price of 1 LMS Ultra.

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post #6 of 40 Old 09-07-2013, 06:59 PM
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post #7 of 40 Old 09-13-2013, 09:10 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RickD1225 View Post

The LMS Ultras are at the top of the heap, but so is the price. SIs are really hot right now with DIYers and SI just lowered the delivered price for the HT-18s to $219 delivered for the month of Sept. You can buy 4 of these for the price of 1 LMS Ultra.


I put these in my cart and they wanted 256 each....how do you get it at 219?
Thanks!

Have a Happy and safe New Year!!!
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post #8 of 40 Old 09-13-2013, 09:58 AM
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Just give them a call for the special pricing.
The other option is to go Dayton Audio 18". They are a hair under $250 delivered each and are, for the most part, the sonic equal of the SI you are now trying to get.
Of course, $219 delivered, if still valid, saves you $120 over four speakers!

In counterpoint, if the OP takes advantage of a Parts Express sale code (such as $50 off a minimum order, etc.) plus package discount for the Dayton Audio drivers and flat pack kits, he might do even a little better than the total kit cost using the SI and flat packs...?

The UXL is a great sub, but is priced at the next level...call it around $500 each? Chime in if I am off with the pricing on this fine offering.

There have been plenty of builds with all of the recommended drivers here plus those pre-cut "flat packs" (including my own)...just search around.smile.gif

Hope that helps!
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post #9 of 40 Old 09-13-2013, 01:38 PM - Thread Starter
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What do you have in a flat pack? Can you send me a pm...thanks!

Have a Happy and safe New Year!!!
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post #10 of 40 Old 09-19-2013, 08:09 PM - Thread Starter
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I ended up getting the Stereo Integrity HT 18" Subwoofers for 219.00 shipped.....now for the boxes....

Have a Happy and safe New Year!!!
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post #11 of 40 Old 09-19-2013, 09:59 PM
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I ordered 2 of the HT-18D2s. They deliver tomorrow. I had to call to get the $219 deal, but they sent me an email telling me it is now on the website. I am going to get two more, but i need to sell one of my current subs to get more cash. Quad sealed should kick a**!

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post #12 of 40 Old 09-19-2013, 10:13 PM
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"Quad sealed should kick a**!"

well, yeah...but and this is archaea's problem (why quad sealed don't seem to beat his dual captivators)...ported have 10-12db more spl around tuning frequency...so if you have the space...

4 x ported tuned to 17hz "marty subs" vs. sealed. 1100 watts each driver. both systems push driver right about to xmax 22mm.



http://www.avsforum.com/t/1489541/large-ported-dayton-ho18s#post_23711186
[i'd increase the height of the slot port to 3-3.5 inches given what we learned about slot ports while designing the marty, but otherwise, a relatively simple build]


it's the attack of the marty sub again!



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post #13 of 40 Old 09-20-2013, 04:19 AM
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Just out of curiosity, how would two Dayton HO18's in 2 sealed 3cuft enclosures compare to the "Marty Sub" in a vented enclosure, with either being powered by an iNuke3000?
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post #14 of 40 Old 09-20-2013, 07:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Martycool007 View Post

Just out of curiosity, how would two Dayton HO18's in 2 sealed 3cuft enclosures compare to the "Marty Sub" in a vented enclosure, with either being powered by an iNuke3000?

I would also like to know this. I'm trying to figure out whether to go dual 18" sealed, 1 or 2 18" Martysubs, or 1 or 2 Microwreckers. I'm fairly certain sealed is in my future but I'd like to be flat to 20Hz if possible, which I don't think the sealed will do readily.

Sorry for the partial threadjack.
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post #15 of 40 Old 09-20-2013, 07:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Martycool007 View Post

Just out of curiosity, how would two Dayton HO18's in 2 sealed 3cuft enclosures compare to the "Marty Sub" in a vented enclosure, with either being powered by an iNuke3000?

Based on LTD's graph above, 2 sealed would be +3db at 10Hz, -3dB at 20Hz, +2dB at 30Hz, +4dB at 40Hz, and the +6dB from 50Hz up. The advantage of ported is being more efficient around its tune and cheaper per dB, but at the cost of size. 2 sealed boxes would be smaller than 1 Marty sub. 2 sealed boxes would have the dB advantage at the majority of the frequency range, with the ported having advantage from 15-25Hz. I don't know if he has a HPF on the ported, so that could affect it more.

Living room: Definitive BP2000TL, CLR3000, BPVX, Quad SI 18" subs
Bedroom: Definitive BP30, CLR2000 Also have had: BP7000SC, BP8B, BP10B, BPX, Dayton 15" HF subs, Rythmik F15
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post #16 of 40 Old 09-20-2013, 07:39 AM
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LTD02, I was planning on dual captivator imitators, but ran into a financial money pit with my home. Two major repair bills, A/C and water main replacement. I now have to fund the project selling my current subs. I didn't want to wait much longer since I have caught the bug. Idon't know if the HT-18s are good enough to make the Cap imitators.

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post #17 of 40 Old 09-20-2013, 10:29 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by whoiswes View Post

I would also like to know this. I'm trying to figure out whether to go dual 18" sealed, 1 or 2 18" Martysubs, or 1 or 2 Microwreckers. I'm fairly certain sealed is in my future but I'd like to be flat to 20Hz if possible, which I don't think the sealed will do readily.

Sorry for the partial threadjack.

Good questions...keep em coming..I for one am learning

Have a Happy and safe New Year!!!
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post #18 of 40 Old 09-20-2013, 11:00 AM
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Good questions...keep em coming..I for one am learning

Any of those will be flat to 20Hz easily. The sealed will need a little EQ, but mine are flat to <10Hz in my room. Marty sub is bigger and will be louder and microwrecker is even bigger and louder. The shallow roll of of the sealed boxes allows some EQ to flatten it lower than a ported sub or horn that drop off a lot faster below their tune. Above that rolloff, they have more output than sealed though at the cost of size.

Living room: Definitive BP2000TL, CLR3000, BPVX, Quad SI 18" subs
Bedroom: Definitive BP30, CLR2000 Also have had: BP7000SC, BP8B, BP10B, BPX, Dayton 15" HF subs, Rythmik F15
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post #19 of 40 Old 09-20-2013, 11:44 AM
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"Just out of curiosity, how would two Dayton HO18's in 2 sealed 3cuft enclosures compare to the "Marty Sub" in a vented enclosure, with either being powered by an iNuke3000?"

that is a little tricky because of amp and the drivers.

the Dayton ho's are 4 ohm, so max power can be drawn in bridged mode when using a single driver.

when using two drivers, one driver would be placed on each channel, which actually gives less total output.

the max output in stereo mode is listed as 820 watts. so i'll use that, but in actuality, it won't be quite that high. so reduce the sealed response by a hair.

so in the upper bass, dual sealed have the advantage. but, down low, the marty sub still reigns supreme.


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post #20 of 40 Old 09-20-2013, 11:48 AM
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"I would also like to know this. I'm trying to figure out whether to go dual 18" sealed, 1 or 2 18" Martysubs, or 1 or 2 Microwreckers. I'm fairly certain sealed is in my future but I'd like to be flat to 20Hz if possible, which I don't think the sealed will do readily.

Sorry for the partial threadjack."

in most average home size rooms, there is some room gain that kicks in below about 30hz and is about 6db/octave or so (+6db by 20hz for example).

i'll have to take a look at the microwrecker again...one second...

as for how a martysub would compare to the lilwrecker, i think that they would be quite close, with perhaps the advantage going to the martysub. but, again, it would be close between one lilwrecker and one si ht 18 martysub. tapped horns tend to be a little rough on the top end though, so for that reason, i might lean to the martysub.

lilwrecker here: http://www.avsforum.com/t/1451519/lilmikes-lilwrecker


.

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post #21 of 40 Old 09-20-2013, 11:53 AM - Thread Starter
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Just to make sure im tracking properly, the HO 18 & SI 18 will hit 10hz in a sealed box if you run two drivers?

Also what does reference level mean exactly? Is that turning my pre amp gain to 0db? Sorry for naive question....

Have a Happy and safe New Year!!!
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post #22 of 40 Old 09-20-2013, 11:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 316 View Post

Just to make sure im tracking properly, the HO 18 & SI 18 will hit 10hz in a sealed box if you run two drivers?

Also what does reference level mean exactly? Is that turning my pre amp gain to 0db? Sorry for naive question....

They can hit 10Hz, but it depends on your room. A smaller room with more gain will have an easier time doing it. Less gain down low would require more EQ to get it flat, but I don't know how much room gain you'd need for it to be feasible.

Reference level is 115dB (85dB average plus 30dB peaks for bass). If your system is calibrated properly, that should be 0 on you receiver I believe.

Here are my 4 sealed SI's with no EQ and just Audyssey. My previous 2 15"s were also flat to 10Hz in my room.


Living room: Definitive BP2000TL, CLR3000, BPVX, Quad SI 18" subs
Bedroom: Definitive BP30, CLR2000 Also have had: BP7000SC, BP8B, BP10B, BPX, Dayton 15" HF subs, Rythmik F15
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post #23 of 40 Old 09-20-2013, 12:11 PM
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"LTD02, I was planning on dual captivator imitators, but ran into a financial money pit with my home. Two major repair bills, A/C and water main replacement. I now have to fund the project selling my current subs. I didn't want to wait much longer since I have caught the bug. Idon't know if the HT-18s are good enough to make the Cap imitators."

sorry to hear about that.

the driver in the captivator is very nice. it has a huge motor and very high excursion. in powered form, it also comes with one heck of an amp. i very much like the design and engineering choices made with respect to it but for the smallish port.

the cap and the martysub are tuned quite similarly, so extension will be about the same. the si ht 18" driver is 22mm xmax, which is less than the ~30mm xmax or so in the capitivator, so one martysub will equal about 75% of a capitivator, roughly. the martysub is much larger, so doesn't require as much power and that makes it less expensive. the si driver is on sale for $219 delivered which is a really great price. two martysubs with an inuke3000dsp, dual 4 ohm drivers wired in parallel for 2 ohms each, and some handy panels from home depot...and your off to the races with huge bass on the supercheap!

it is not the end all be all of everything, but for a guy in your situation, i would not hesitate to recommend it all day long.


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post #24 of 40 Old 09-20-2013, 12:14 PM
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"Also what does reference level mean exactly?"

reference level is for large rooms.

reference level means peak spl at the listening position of 105db from the main speakers and 115db from the subwoofer with NO redirected bass.

with redirected bass from all 7 channels, reference for the subwoofer level is up around 123db or so.

there is actually another reference level that is for home rooms, which is significantly lower, but who cares about that? :-)~

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post #25 of 40 Old 09-20-2013, 01:41 PM
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This will be my first sub project and as I have seen reading all of these build threads probably not my last. I can still see some Captivator imitators using the
UXL -18 somewhere down the road. Would a slot ported sub be able to be blended with a couple of these sealed SI HT-18s?

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post #26 of 40 Old 09-20-2013, 01:47 PM
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"Would a slot ported sub be able to be blended with a couple of these sealed SI HT-18s?"

sure. it can work great. but, slightly different eq would be required for the ported and the sealed. most folks don't tend to have that flexibility though, so it is better to choose one or the other.

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post #27 of 40 Old 09-20-2013, 02:54 PM
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I would be using a MiniDSP 2x4 with a 4 way advanced plugin so I think it could work for to different equalization schemes. I may try to build both and see which I like best. I am starting with the sealed since I got the SI Ht-18s delivered today. For the ported I had thought about the ULX18 which should be the next step up from the SI HT-18. I am excited to get started on this journey.

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post #28 of 40 Old 09-21-2013, 06:53 AM
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LTD02, I know you really like the ported cabinets and I was interested in doing that with the ULX, but money forced a change to the SI HT-18. I have been watching the "Marty" Sub thread so it looks like the HT-18 will work well in this orientation. It looks like a good plan, but way to deep for my area. I would need to go to the vertical being the largest dimension. How would I change the "Marty" build to accommodate? I do like the slot porting.

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post #29 of 40 Old 09-21-2013, 06:57 AM
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I have gotten my drivers, but I am not quite ready to build. I am waiting for my daughter to move into her home and get her sh** out of my garage so I will have room to build. It seems like it is taking forever. I am looking at possibly doing a cabinet with wood veneered MDF or high grade plywood like ash to match my speakers (Klipsch RF series).

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post #30 of 40 Old 09-21-2013, 07:07 AM
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"LTD02, I know you really like the ported cabinets and I was interested in doing that with the ULX, but money forced a change to the SI HT-18. I have been watching the "Marty" Sub thread so it looks like the HT-18 will work well in this orientation. It looks like a good plan, but way to deep for my area. I would need to go to the vertical being the largest dimension. How would I change the "Marty" build to accommodate? I do like the slot porting."

uh, sounds like another marty sub design! the upright marty sub! LOL and i thought that i just got done with the last one...

simplest solution...you could just stand it up. no reason it can't be aimed up.

let me noodle it a bit, but i really like the idea.



edit: it's not that i like any particular design more than another. they all have advantages and disadvantages. the large ported just gives a lot more bang for the buck if you can handle the size, but horns are good too. people aren't as familiar with horns though, so they aren't as popular.

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