Bought four sealed 18" cabinets on a wild hare - Direct me to a driver setup at least competitive or superior to JTR Captivators... - Page 10 - AVS Forum
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post #271 of 375 Old 12-02-2013, 07:23 PM
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Originally Posted by N8DOGG View Post

Do not build this horn with MDF!!!!!! it's will be close to 400lbs! My G-horn with driver is just under 280lbs with BB. It will be stupid heavy, spend the money and do it the way it's supposed to. I've got 2 G-horns, both with UXLs as does my friend but I'm only currently using 1 but had both going for about 3 months. Now it's pointed directly at the back of the sofa and shakes the living crap out of you!.... Well, that and the 8 x 21's biggrin.gif

I should also say that mine were pretty flat, a bit of EQ and I had them as good as I have my current setup. The 50hz "ringing" was not noticeable during movies at all and barley with music.

This made me laugh. Can't imagine 400lbs...My mdf boxes are tipping the scales at 210lbs and I hate moving them around.
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post #272 of 375 Old 12-03-2013, 02:48 AM
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I live in a flat (apartment for you US folks wink.gif) - I am slightly concerned for the downstairs neighbours ceiling as I have worked out exactly what some of my furniture weighs (35 stone for an empty wardrobe, 16 stone for a bedframe and mattress, 10 stone for the 14 gallon fish tank...) and I want to add to it with potentially 400lbs of sub boxes stacked in one corner... lol
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post #273 of 375 Old 12-24-2013, 01:02 PM - Thread Starter
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hmmm.... with the UXL-18's now on group buy offer at $410 each - I'm wondering if I should cancel my pre-order on the four Dayton Audio Ultimax 18". I got the Ultimax's for dirt cheap though on pre-order with a $100 off $1000 black friday coupon for the four of them.
Basically my price options are $971 shipped for four Ultimax 18" drivers (used BF coupon) or $1640 shipped for four UXL-18s.

These are 3.5 cubic foot sealed cabs.

suggestions?

FWIW - I like the cosmetics on the Ultimax driver better, because the UXL-18 has a hint of purplish tint and I think that may clash a bit with the black oak veneer on my sealed cabs and the browns and blacks of my theater room colors.

At the sale price - - I'm considering buying a couple of the UXL-18 drivers for a potential gjallarhorn project through too. tongue.gif

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post #274 of 375 Old 12-24-2013, 01:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Archaea View Post

hmmm.... with the UXL-18's now on group buy offer at $410 each - I'm wondering if I should cancel my pre-order on the four Dayton Audio Ultimax 18". I got the Ultimax's for dirt cheap though on pre-order with a $100 off $1000 black friday coupon for the four of them.
Basically my price options are $971 shipped for four Ultimax 18" drivers (used BF coupon) or $1640 shipped for four UXL-18s.

These are 3.5 cubic foot sealed cabs.

suggestions?

FWIW - I like the cosmetics on the Ultimax driver better, because the UXL-18 has a hint of purplish tint and I think that may clash a bit with the black oak veneer on my sealed cabs and the browns and blacks of my theater room colors.

At the sale price - - I'm considering buying a couple of the UXL-18 drivers for a potential gjallarhorn project through too. tongue.gif

DO IT Archaea! You're almost getting the performance of a TC Ultra 5400 but at less then half the price!
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post #275 of 375 Old 12-24-2013, 03:31 PM
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Compare the response of both models in your black boxes with the power you want to give them and go from there. My concern is the modeled response of the UM is the only thing to go on. The UXL is proven to be a B.A. I like your idea of 4 UM in those boxes AND the two UXL loaded G-horns. I like 4 UXL in 4 G-horns with your Caps near-field the best of all, but probably overkill. Just kidding, there is no such thing as overkill!
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post #276 of 375 Old 12-24-2013, 03:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Archaea View Post

hmmm.... with the UXL-18's now on group buy offer at $410 each - I'm wondering if I should cancel my pre-order on the four Dayton Audio Ultimax 18". I got the Ultimax's for dirt cheap though on pre-order with a $100 off $1000 black friday coupon for the four of them.
Basically my price options are $971 shipped for four Ultimax 18" drivers (used BF coupon) or $1640 shipped for four UXL-18s.

These are 3.5 cubic foot sealed cabs.

suggestions?

FWIW - I like the cosmetics on the Ultimax driver better, because the UXL-18 has a hint of purplish tint and I think that may clash a bit with the black oak veneer on my sealed cabs and the browns and blacks of my theater room colors.

At the sale price - - I'm considering buying a couple of the UXL-18 drivers for a potential gjallarhorn project through too. tongue.gif

Can you point me in the direction of this group buy? Is it here in AVS?
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post #277 of 375 Old 12-24-2013, 05:43 PM - Thread Starter
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post #278 of 375 Old 12-24-2013, 09:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Archaea View Post

hmmm.... with the UXL-18's now on group buy offer at $410 each - I'm wondering if I should cancel my pre-order on the four Dayton Audio Ultimax 18". I got the Ultimax's for dirt cheap though on pre-order with a $100 off $1000 black friday coupon for the four of them.
Basically my price options are $971 shipped for four Ultimax 18" drivers (used BF coupon) or $1640 shipped for four UXL-18s.

These are 3.5 cubic foot sealed cabs.

suggestions?

FWIW - I like the cosmetics on the Ultimax driver better, because the UXL-18 has a hint of purplish tint and I think that may clash a bit with the black oak veneer on my sealed cabs and the browns and blacks of my theater room colors.

At the sale price - - I'm considering buying a couple of the UXL-18 drivers for a potential gjallarhorn project through too. tongue.gif

Ahhh, good question. I had a feeling you would ask when I saw the deal.

*sigh* You know, these are both nice drivers but they are different. I'd say the UXL is the "better" driver overall but don't take that to mean the UM18 isn't. They're both just in their own class. Since you have the boxes already, that's a non-factor but the UXL18 is definitely the driver to go for for the guy that needs mega bass out of the smallest enclosure possible. That and maybe total power handling and max burst output is really all the UXL has over the UM.

So the question is.... not for us, but for you, Jonathan. With this group buy (which btw is only good if the full 40 batch is committed to) is it worth it to you to switch the UM for the UXL?

Heheh. I know you're just wondering. smile.gif But if there is a question in there then we can work on that. If it's just "which should I buy?" then... well, you're going to have to decide. Both are nice, one is "better" but also more expensive. That's not something we can decide for you.

Now... picking up a pair for some ghorn's. biggrin.gif Different story!!!

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post #279 of 375 Old 12-24-2013, 11:06 PM - Thread Starter
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I might have to be shallow and go with the ultimax simply because it's a looker, and I have those really sharp looking oak veneer cabinets to mate them with. cool.gif

I saw one of the 15" ultimax at Gorilla83's house over Thanksgiving and it was one of the best looking sub drivers I've ever seen. (looks are subjective I know - - but if there is a supermodel of subwoofer drivers - to my preference it might be one of these ultimax drivers if not the LMS-5400).

Scott, Which of these drivers would be most comfortable with a higher crossover for music listening. I've discovered that, like carp, I seem to prefer a higher crossover for music listening, yet I prefer a lower crossover for movie watching in my testing.
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post #280 of 375 Old 12-25-2013, 12:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Archaea View Post

I might have to be shallow and go with the ultimax simply because it's a looker, and I have those really sharp looking oak veneer cabinets to mate them with. cool.gif

I saw one of the 15" ultimax at Gorilla83's house over Thanksgiving and it was one of the best looking sub drivers I've ever seen. (looks are subjective I know - - but if there is a supermodel of subwoofer drivers - to my preference it might be one of these ultimax drivers if not the LMS-5400).

Scott, Which of these drivers would be most comfortable with a higher crossover for music listening. I've discovered that, like carp, I seem to prefer a higher crossover for music listening, yet I prefer a lower crossover for movie watching in my testing.

Same here. I love the way the Ultimax series looks.

I'd be willing to bet $20 that the high end response of both would be very similar to negligible difference. Both use similar inductance fighting methods. The UXL seem to test well according to what I've seen on DB. An Ultimax driver has not yet been tested there so it's tough to compare objectively.

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post #281 of 375 Old 12-25-2013, 12:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Archaea View Post

I might have to be shallow and go with the ultimax simply because it's a looker, and I have those really sharp looking oak veneer cabinets to mate them with. cool.gif

I saw one of the 15" ultimax at Gorilla83's house over Thanksgiving and it was one of the best looking sub drivers I've ever seen. (looks are subjective I know - - but if there is a supermodel of subwoofer drivers - to my preference it might be one of these ultimax drivers if not the LMS-5400).

Scott, Which of these drivers would be most comfortable with a higher crossover for music listening. I've discovered that, like carp, I seem to prefer a higher crossover for music listening, yet I prefer a lower crossover for movie watching in my testing.

I would have to believe the UXL-18 would be superior, compare the UXL-18 data-bass number to the LMS-5400 and above 31.5hz it even has more output then the mighty 5400!

Heck if you overlay the graphs from 20hz and on up the UXL-18 beats the LMS-5400! And at almost $600 less per driver!

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post #282 of 375 Old 12-25-2013, 08:57 AM
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Originally Posted by jbrown15 View Post

I would have to believe the UXL-18 would be superior, compare the UXL-18 data-bass number to the LMS-5400 and above 31.5hz it even has more output then the mighty 5400!

Heck if you overlay the graphs from 20hz and on up the UXL-18 beats the LMS-5400! And at almost $600 less per driver!

That's considering max burst output which is wayyyy over the UXL's rated power handling... How long would it actually last running it that hard?
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post #283 of 375 Old 12-25-2013, 10:29 AM
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That's considering max burst output which is wayyyy over the UXL's rated power handling... How long would it actually last running it that hard?

The same logic applies for the LMS-5400 too though as it's numbers from data-bass are max burst output too.

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post #284 of 375 Old 01-02-2014, 02:15 PM - Thread Starter
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except the LMS 5400 has a much bigger voice coil at 4" compared to the UXL-18's 3" meaning it won't heat up as fast/burn up as fast if played with high wattage for extended periods. IIRC the LMS 5400 is rated for 8,000 watt peak and a conservative 2,000 watts max.

The UXL-18 is rated for 1,200 watts max and I don't see a peak number.

Neither of these would really be a problem for home theater use, but in heavy duty use, the LMS 5400 should hold up better in a torture test.

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post #285 of 375 Old 01-02-2014, 03:10 PM
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Originally Posted by Archaea View Post

except the LMS 5400 has a much bigger voice coil at 4" compared to the UXL-18's 3" meaning it won't heat up as fast/burn up as fast if played with high wattage for extended periods. IIRC the LMS 5400 is rated for 8,000 watt peak and a conservative 2,000 watts max.

The UXL-18 is rated for 1,200 watts max and I don't see a peak number.

Neither of these would really be a problem for home theater use, but in heavy duty use, the LMS 5400 should hold up better in a torture test.

Eh eh eh. It's sort of larger. wink.gif

Yes the LMS Ultra does indeed have a 4" coil over the 3" in the UXL. However, the LMS technology is a variable density voice coil. That's part of how these have flat BL. The LMSU has a 2-4 layer voice coil, iirc. The UXL has a 4 layer coil that is smaller in diameter but the the whole coil is 4 layers where on the Ultra the middle section is only 2 layer and gets thicker toward the top and bottom of the coil.

I'm just pointing out that the volume of coil may be similar between the two drivers. But probably not. Well maybe. rolleyes.gifwink.giftongue.gifbiggrin.gifsmile.gif

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post #286 of 375 Old 01-02-2014, 03:29 PM
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Archaea, I thought for sure you would of jumped on the UXL-18 group buy for the price they went for.

I honestly don't think there's going to be any issues with the voice coils after talking with N8DOGG and Mark. N8DOGG assures me that it can easily handle at least 2000watts and Mark was telling me that it takes him 25mins to make one voice coil by hand and that's with using a CNC coil winder.

So I would have to assume it has great care and quality put into making them.

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post #287 of 375 Old 01-02-2014, 03:41 PM
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For HT use I would not bother with the power ratings that much, thermal handling is not an issue at home for movies unless your blasting music at the limits for 2 hours or more.

People should remember that the max burst ratings are not typically achievable in a normal scenario due to people not providing each driver with the same amount of power as posted on data bass. The LMS has a 130V long term sweep (around 20 seconds IIRC) which is a bit north of 4kw into the nominal 4 ohms. Doesn't Ricci bridge his K10 for the testing?

If one can feed each driver an honest 4kw then they should look at the long term sweep for realistic output levels. The long term sweep is about 97db at 10Hz (I think this is a 1 meter measurement ?) the burst is 100.7 at 1 meter, accounting for the higher impedance of about 5 ohms at 10Hz you are still almost at 7kw into each driver for the burst output which is a little over 3db higher than the long term output.
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post #288 of 375 Old 01-02-2014, 03:53 PM
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For HT use I would not bother with the power ratings that much, thermal handling is not an issue at home for movies unless your blasting music at the limits for 2 hours or more.

People should remember that the max burst ratings are not typically achievable in a normal scenario due to people not providing each driver with the same amount of power as posted on data bass. The LMS has a 130V long term sweep (around 20 seconds IIRC) which is a bit north of 4kw into the nominal 4 ohms. Doesn't Ricci bridge his K10 for the testing?

If one can feed each driver an honest 4kw then they should look at the long term sweep for realistic output levels. The long term sweep is about 97db at 10Hz (I think this is a 1 meter measurement ?) the burst is 100.7 at 1 meter, accounting for the higher impedance of about 5 ohms at 10Hz you are still almost at 7kw into each driver for the burst output which is a little over 3db higher than the long term output.

This post is SO good that I can't even give it a thumbs up!

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post #289 of 375 Old 01-02-2014, 03:58 PM
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This post is SO good that I can't even give it a thumbs up!

Well.................

If you wont, I will!!!! wink.gif
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post #290 of 375 Old 01-02-2014, 04:19 PM - Thread Starter
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Archaea, I thought for sure you would of jumped on the UXL-18 group buy for the price they went for.

I honestly don't think there's going to be any issues with the voice coils after talking with N8DOGG and Mark. N8DOGG assures me that it can easily handle at least 2000watts and Mark was telling me that it takes him 25mins to make one voice coil by hand and that's with using a CNC coil winder.

So I would have to assume it has great care and quality put into making them.


me either -- that's why I said it won't matter for typical home theater use. tongue.gif



As to why I didn't jump -

I didn't for two main reasons.

The UM-18 SHOULD be just a couple of dB's down for $700 less. The way my brain traditionally works is you either go with a deal or you go with the best. Arguably the UXL-18 was a bit of both, but I've either got my heart set on the LMS 5400 or a deal. If I get something in the middle then I'm typically just left with "what ifs", and the potential desire to upgrade later. Ask HuskerOmaha about that. wink.gif The UM-18 (to me) is a better looking driver with, what should be, perfectly usable performance for dirt cheap. (Looks are important to me because I have those fancy looking cabs to fill which are actually custom made for the LMS-5400 - pre drilled LMS 5400 mounting holes and everything).

I'm massively curious about the new SI HST-18 too. MASSIVELY. I'm eagerly awaiting info on that setup. I'm crossing my fingers for a group buy there as well, and that was a big factor in my hold off too.

I'm also talking with Part's Express right now through an e-mail dialogue about potentially organizing a group buy on the LMS-5400. Similar to what Blah450 did with the UXL-18. Not sure if that's going to happen, but it's another hope.

I also have a ball up in the air with JTR I'm toying with the idea of a couple of 215's, and selling some of my other gear to cover it.

Gosh....make up my mind already.

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post #291 of 375 Old 01-02-2014, 04:37 PM
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I also have a ball up in the air with JTR I'm toying with the idea of a couple of 215's, and selling some of my other gear to cover it.

Gosh....make up my mind already.

OMG.....sell your gear and get the 215T's!! eek.gifsmile.gif

I know I'm glad that another certain forum member is doing that! wink.gif

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post #292 of 375 Old 01-02-2014, 04:41 PM
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As to why I didn't jump -


Gosh....make up my mind already.

Seriously. rolleyes.gif

jk. biggrin.gif


*pssssttt*

You made the right choice and with those extra Benjamins in your pocket, you can make it rain on yourself while enjoying the UM18's.
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post #293 of 375 Old 01-02-2014, 05:46 PM
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"I'm massively curious about the new SI HST-18 too. MASSIVELY."

i just read ricci's review today and since some folks have asked, I figured I'd go ahead an share what I'm seeing...

The xmax is pretty solid and the coil (3" 8 layer, unknown gauge) can probably take some juice.

For applications where more drivers can be used, I think that is the way to go. the basic 18ht is 20mm xmax or so, 18", so two of them are equal to a single unit with 40 mm xmax (win). the basic unit has only a 2.5" coil, but two of them have effectively a 5" voice coil (win). then...there is the sensitivity. with two drivers, you have double the radiating area, which really increases the top end (win). bottom end is still more or less cab size limited (sensitivity wise, and spl limited excursion wise).

here is 1 watt in to dual basic 18's vs. 1 hst. both sealed in 6 cubic foot cabs. 4 db more sensitivity means less than half the power and all the associated impacts for a given spl.



price is $239 for the basic model x 2= $478 (win) vs. $625 (expected/anticipated?) for the big guy.

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post #294 of 375 Old 01-02-2014, 05:49 PM
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^^^ LTD, so the thick blue line graph is the dual SI 18's?

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post #295 of 375 Old 01-02-2014, 06:19 PM - Thread Starter
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LTD02 - did you see where Josh said in his written comments that he hit 50mm on the HST-18 prototype with no noise and up to 90mm before he started encountering mechanical limit/noise.

That's rivaled by very few, if any, 18" drivers I'm aware of. eek.gif

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post #296 of 375 Old 01-02-2014, 06:39 PM
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If all you're concerned with is looks, then this is the sexiest sub I have ever seen.



No picture I have seen really shows how great it looks. However, I doubt it has the same performace of what you are looking at. But Sub Porn is always fun, right? tongue.gif
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post #297 of 375 Old 01-02-2014, 06:47 PM - Thread Starter
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That is a sexy driver. What is it?

"Without subs it's just background music - with subs it's the main event!"
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post #298 of 375 Old 01-02-2014, 06:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Archaea View Post

LTD02 - did you see where Josh said in his written comments that he hit 50mm on the HST-18 prototype with no noise and up to 90mm before he started encountering mechanical limit/noise.

That's rivaled by very few, if any, 18" drivers I'm aware of. eek.gif

Yeah, in fact the only other 18" that I can think of that is super quiet is the other SI driver..... the 18HT. biggrin.gif

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post #299 of 375 Old 01-02-2014, 06:51 PM
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Hertz ML 3800
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post #300 of 375 Old 01-02-2014, 07:07 PM
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I'm also talking with Part's Express right now through an e-mail dialogue about potentially organizing a group buy on the LMS-5400. Similar to what Blah450 did with the UXL-18. Not sure if that's going to happen, but it's another hope.

Archea - my SpeakerPower amp has one channel that's a little lonely driving one sub so is it too early to put me in for 1? I'm not sure where I'll fit a 4th in my living room but I'm sure I can figure out something. smile.gif. Thanks for looking into it.
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