Want to start DIYING!! BIG ROOM WHAT CAN I GO WITH! - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 99 Old 09-13-2013, 02:54 PM - Thread Starter
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hi guys! i been on this forum plenty of times and ask for help in some things but never got around to doing anything cause i think i just get intimidated! i moved from brooklyn to staten island and now have a house with a huge basment! 70L x 20W x 9H and i have a elemental designs subwoofer A7-650s its a sealed subwoofer with 2 13in drivers powerd by a ep2000. and it just doesnt cut it at all anymore. so i just got back to this fourm and been reading what people have been doing.
i see the new dayton 18"HO
i bought the plans to BFM THT
UXL drivers?
and the expensive TC 5400U

anyone know what i can do? sealed subs seem the easiest but require the most power i think!
ported are a lil harder
horns-- forgetaboutit lol but the coolest and least power required.
so would sealed subs work like 4 to 8 of them?
BFM 2 of them? maybe 4 if i can get someone to help me build it or i get really good at it
or 2 TC ULTRAs? ported or seald
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post #2 of 99 Old 09-13-2013, 02:59 PM
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stereo integrity has their 18" on sale for $219 delivered.

a big ported "marty sub" would work great for an enclosure

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1489541/large-ported-dayton-ho18s#post_23711174

two would be a good start. 4 would be killer.

behringer inuke 6000 dsp for the amp

just make sure to get drivers that will net you 4 ohms per PAIR (i.e. dual 4 ohm coils per sub) if you want to maximize the inuke 6000.

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post #3 of 99 Old 09-13-2013, 03:00 PM
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What are your goals? Budget, wife approval factor, music / HT ... etc.

LMS-U's are probably better suited sealed, there are better values for ported subs.

If you've got a big room, I'd look into 2-4 UXL's, 4-8 Dayton 18" HO's or 4-8 Stereoo integrity 18"s.
Put each in their own cabinet (or dual opposed) to smooth room modes.
This should give you plenty of authority down to the single digits (if you decide sealed), and should save you a good amount over the Ultra's.
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post #4 of 99 Old 09-13-2013, 03:05 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thatsnasty View Post

What are your goals? Budget, wife approval factor, music / HT ... etc.

LMS-U's are probably better suited sealed, there are better values for ported subs.



If you've got a big room, I'd look into 2-4 UXL's, 4-8 Dayton 18" HO's or 4-8 Stereoo integrity 18"s.
Put each in their own cabinet (or dual opposed) to smooth room modes.
This should give you plenty of authority down to the single digits, and should save you a good amount over the Ultra's.[/quote

no wife lol yes big room and i want BASS im a bass head i can never have to much.. i want midbass and deep bass.. i love dynamics. i have sho10 speakers but will eventually upgrade.
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post #5 of 99 Old 09-13-2013, 03:07 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by LTD02 View Post

stereo integrity has their 18" on sale for $219 delivered.

a big ported "marty sub" would work great for an enclosure

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1489541/large-ported-dayton-ho18s#post_23711174

two would be a good start. 4 would be killer.

behringer inuke 6000 dsp for the amp

just make sure to get drivers that will net you 4 ohms per PAIR (i.e. dual 4 ohm coils per sub) if you want to maximize the inuke 6000.

thanks will deff look into that! im looking the cheapest route right now. i heard there is a long wait for those SI subs? forgot to mention them.
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post #6 of 99 Old 09-13-2013, 03:09 PM
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Originally Posted by frankie2075 View Post

thanks will deff look into that! im looking the cheapest route right now. i heard there is a long wait for those SI subs? forgot to mention them.

cheapest... definitely a pair or a quad set of lilwreckers.... those would tear down the walls in that size room ...

and no, the SI 18's and 15's are back in stock and shipping readily.
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post #7 of 99 Old 09-13-2013, 03:10 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by wormraper View Post

cheapest... definitely a pair or a quad set of lilwreckers.... those would tear down the walls in that size room ...

and no, the SI 18's and 15's are back in stock and shipping readily.
lilwreckers? how come no one says much about the THT? just curious
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post #8 of 99 Old 09-13-2013, 03:13 PM
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Originally Posted by frankie2075 View Post

lilwreckers? how come no one says much about the THT? just curious

I think the THT is more closely compared to the F-20, not the lilwrecker.... I don't know the difference between them exactly though.
If I were using this for HT I would just get 4-8 sealed subs and be done with it.
You won't get single digit reproduction (<20hz) much easier any other way... except maybe some huge LLT's.
It comes down to your goals... if you don't need any output under 20hz, then the obvious choice is ported / horns.

Edit: worm said it best, tuned lower.

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1451519/lilmikes-lilwrecker

Here's the lilwrecker thread, tuned to ~17hz.
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post #9 of 99 Old 09-13-2013, 03:17 PM
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Originally Posted by frankie2075 View Post

lilwreckers? how come no one says much about the THT? just curious

the THT and the F-20 are very very similar and are the little brothers to the lilwrecker.. the lilwrecker is a front loaded horn like the THT and F-20 but it goes down easily to 15 hz... the THT and F-20 limit out about 22 hz
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post #10 of 99 Old 09-13-2013, 03:19 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Thatsnasty View Post

I think the THT is more closely compared to the F-20, not the lilwrecker.... I don't know the difference between them exactly though.
If I were using this for HT I would just get 4-8 sealed subs and be done with it.
You won't get single digit reproduction (<20hz) much easier any other way... except maybe some huge LLT's.
It comes down to your goals... if you don't need any output under 20hz, then the obvious choice is ported / horns.

HMMM so i wont get lower then 20hz with ported or horn? well other then what its tuned to cause then it drops considerably.. right?
im going to email SI and get a quote on 8 of them and see.. but now the power how much would i need will my electric handle it?
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post #11 of 99 Old 09-13-2013, 03:20 PM - Thread Starter
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if i do 6-8 sealed subs and do 2 of them in a box how big of a box would they have to be in?
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post #12 of 99 Old 09-13-2013, 03:22 PM
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Originally Posted by frankie2075 View Post

HMMM so i wont get lower then 20hz with ported or horn? well other then what its tuned to cause then it drops considerably.. right?
im going to email SI and get a quote on 8 of them and see.. but now the power how much would i need will my electric handle it?

you can EASILY get sub 20 hz output on ported or horns, the box sizes just increase ... the lilwreckers are 15 hz horns and with the 18's you can do a nice LLT tuned to 16-17 hz for only 12 cu feet each box


SI will be $1700 for 8 drivers ($219 each for the month of sept)

each driver you can put about 1000 watts each ... probably something like an EP4000 per pair... or do a Cerwin Vega CV 5000 or Peavey IPR5000 or Behrienger Inuke 6000 per set of 4... and each amp will need it's own 20 amp circuit MINIMUM for those 3... 30 amp circuit would be best.
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post #13 of 99 Old 09-13-2013, 03:23 PM
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Originally Posted by frankie2075 View Post

if i do 6-8 sealed subs and do 2 of them in a box how big of a box would they have to be in?

between 8 and 12 cubic feet is about right the SI or Dayton 18's in a dual opposed setup (2 drivers per box)
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post #14 of 99 Old 09-13-2013, 03:28 PM
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Worm summed it up nicely... you can get under 20hz output with the lilwrecker (17hz tuned horn)
Gjallarhorn ( 17hz tuned horn)
LTD's first post (LLT = large low tuned box) 12cubic foot ported tuned to 17hz

It just so happens to be they are all tuned to the same area.... you can tune lower if you wish to go ported.

Movies have content below 20hz, and even below 10hz, but you have to draw the line somewhere.
Some would argue it's "less" important as 99% of the bass is usually 20hz and above, but I digress.

It's all about trade-offs.

If you want REALLY low frequency reproduction, subsonic bass you can only feel, then an IB or sealed is the obvious choice.
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post #15 of 99 Old 09-13-2013, 03:31 PM
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also remeber that 6-8 sealed subs will go looooooooow, but they will only have the OUTPUT of 3-4 ported subs and 4 horns.... sheesh, not even in the same ballpack (output on horns are insane per watt)....it's all about tradeoffs
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post #16 of 99 Old 09-13-2013, 03:34 PM - Thread Starter
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i have 20amp breakers now. 1700 not bad how do you get these plans for these other horns?
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post #17 of 99 Old 09-13-2013, 03:39 PM
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Originally Posted by frankie2075 View Post

i have 20amp breakers now. 1700 not bad how do you get these plans for these other horns?

search for "lilwrecker" in the thread and it'll pop up..

and remember each amp should be on it's own DEDICATED circuit. although you'd only need one circuit with say an EP4000 for a pair of horns... much more efficient (might be able to do all 4 on them)
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post #18 of 99 Old 09-13-2013, 03:39 PM - Thread Starter
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Yea ik tradeoffs suck lol. Would 6 to 8 sealed subs only be good for LF and not the mids? 40-80hz the area when u feel it in your chest? if i start with 2 horn subwoofer i prob can uses my ep2000 on one 20amp breaker.
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post #19 of 99 Old 09-13-2013, 03:47 PM
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Originally Posted by frankie2075 View Post

Yea ik tradeoffs suck lol. Would 6 to 8 sealed subs only be good for LF and not the mids? 40-80hz the area when u feel it in your chest? if i start with 2 horn subwoofer i prob can uses my ep2000 on one 20amp breaker.

an ep 2000 would do two horns on bridged pretty easily


sealed, ported, horns, they'll all do quite fine up to about 120 hz or so...(standard). if you're crossing them over with a set of speakers you'd do between 70 and 100hz crossovers anyways.
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post #20 of 99 Old 09-13-2013, 03:53 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by wormraper View Post

an ep 2000 would do two horns on bridged pretty easily


sealed, ported, horns, they'll all do quite fine up to about 120 hz or so...(standard). if you're crossing them over with a set of speakers you'd do between 70 and 100hz crossovers anyways.

i see i wish i had woodworking skills it would be easy choice and do horns i would do 4 of them with out a doubt! i priced out BFM THT and they wanted to charge me 2000 per sub i just could se myself paying that knowing people build these them selfs for 300 or so bucks! might start with 4 sealed subs and see how it goes and then just add add add! but my mind changes so much! anyone close to where i live willing to demo there horn sub or couple of sealed subs so i can help make my mind up already!
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post #21 of 99 Old 09-13-2013, 03:59 PM
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Originally Posted by frankie2075 View Post

i see i wish i had woodworking skills it would be easy choice and do horns i would do 4 of them with out a doubt! i priced out BFM THT and they wanted to charge me 2000 per sub i just could se myself paying that knowing people build these them selfs for 300 or so bucks! might start with 4 sealed subs and see how it goes and then just add add add! but my mind changes so much! anyone close to where i live willing to demo there horn sub or couple of sealed subs so i can help make my mind up already!

in that size roome I'd do 6-8 sealed as you mentioned. that's a BIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIG room to pressurize and while sealeds go low their output per sub is nowhere what a good ported will do without doubling drivers and power.
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post #22 of 99 Old 09-13-2013, 04:07 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by wormraper View Post

in that size roome I'd do 6-8 sealed as you mentioned. that's a BIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIG room to pressurize and while sealeds go low their output per sub is nowhere what a good ported will do without doubling drivers and power.
Okay so if i do go the sealed route and do either the daytons or SI subs in a sealed box about 8 to 10 cu ft per 2 in a box will give me 4 boxes housing 2 subs each. And each box would take 2000 watts each?
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post #23 of 99 Old 09-13-2013, 04:14 PM
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Okay so if i do go the sealed route and do either the daytons or SI subs in a sealed box about 8 to 10 cu ft per 2 in a box will give me 4 boxes housing 2 subs each. And each box would take 2000 watts each?

sounds about right. honestly the SI's would be better fitting than the dayton since the daytons are only 4ohm subs and the SI's can be bought with either dual 2oh or dual 4 ohm coils. tthe dual 4ohm coils would be wired 2 subs per amp giving the bridged amp a 4ohm load rather than the 2 ohm or 8 ohm of the daytons.. gives you more flexibility
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post #24 of 99 Old 09-13-2013, 04:44 PM
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13000cubic feet + Basshead? Damn!
Yeah... you'll want 4 18's MINIMUM.

I'm a basshead too, I have 10 18's or about 60 liters of displacement per hertz, give or take. In a 3000cube room.
You can almost never have too much bass. biggrin.gif
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post #25 of 99 Old 09-13-2013, 04:50 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by BassThatHz View Post

13000cubic feet + Basshead? Damn!
Yeah... you'll want 4 18's MINIMUM.

I'm a basshead too, I have 10 18's or about 60 liters of displacement per hertz, give or take. In a 3000cube room.
You can almost never have too much bass. biggrin.gif
Haha i agree wow thats awesome what u powering them with?
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post #26 of 99 Old 09-13-2013, 04:56 PM
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the reason that I suggested the ported with 17hz tuning is that gives more than double the output of sealed subs in the very low notes (16-20hz), while also keeping maximum blasting authority up in the 30hz region which is the wheelhouse for movie bass.

the lower the tuning frequency for a ported sub, the less output higher up in terms of max spl, so it is a tradeoff.

the si 18", ~12 cubic feet, tuned to ~17hz, in a large room is a REALLY good balance between max output, max extension, and system value.

there is also the possibility of an infinite baffle subwoofer system, but that would be more cost and size.

sounds like a fun project!

---

as for the tht and f20, the f20 has a lower tuning, so you get more extension. i'm not exactly sure what the tradeoff is in terms of spl higher up and i'm too lazy to pop hornresp open at the moment. :-)

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post #27 of 99 Old 09-13-2013, 06:05 PM
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A 70 ft long room? Building a wall would be cheaper.
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post #28 of 99 Old 09-13-2013, 06:15 PM
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^^ and opens the possibility of "infinite baffle" subwoofer. :-)

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post #29 of 99 Old 09-13-2013, 06:29 PM - Thread Starter
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IB would be nice but ill probably need way to many driver for that.. im looking into the lilwrecker and PMing with mike about it..
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post #30 of 99 Old 09-13-2013, 09:18 PM
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Don't hesitate, the lil wreckers are badass! I love my pair!
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