Can i upgrade my SHO-10 speakers?? - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 73 Old 09-16-2013, 02:59 PM - Thread Starter
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my mind started to wonder again like always and was thinking can i upgrade my sho10 speakers some how? how? i want a bigger sounding speaker? can i just make a new cabinet for them and add a 15in woofer? or make a longer cabinet and add 2 more of the 10in woofers that it has? would i have to do work to the crossovers? or would just screwing on a different CD do the trick?
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post #2 of 73 Old 09-16-2013, 03:09 PM
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You'd have to completely change the xover which is no trivial task. If using them for theater, maybe use them as surrounds and build different mains. If you look at www.diysoundgroup.com you might get some ideas.
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post #3 of 73 Old 09-16-2013, 04:01 PM - Thread Starter
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cool website.. thanks i know nothing about crossovers!
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post #4 of 73 Old 09-16-2013, 07:14 PM
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I'm sure you could cut out and mount a SEOS-10 in that cabinet with the DNA-360 and leave the Delta-10A. I'm not sure what would need to be changed on the Fusion-10 Max crossover though with the only difference being SEOS-12 vs 10.

I think that route would be a better upgrade (SEOS + DNA360 over the D220ti and Eminence horn) than swapping in a 15" mid for the 10A and building a new cabinet.

At that point, you're building a new speaker so why bother keeping the Selenium/"baby butt cheek" combo?
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post #5 of 73 Old 09-16-2013, 10:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by frankie2075 View Post

my mind started to wonder again like always and was thinking can i upgrade my sho10 speakers some how? how? i want a bigger sounding speaker? can i just make a new cabinet for them and add a 15in woofer? or make a longer cabinet and add 2 more of the 10in woofers that it has? would i have to do work to the crossovers? or would just screwing on a different CD do the trick?

My first question would be what are you powering them with. Just jumped on avs again for a sec and saw your thread. If you amp the SHO's they may prove to be more than sufficient. Also verify and test different receiver settings. Maybe there is something active applying unnecessary eq.
I run my SHO's off behringer epx4000's. The output is a wall of sound much larger than the little footprint SHO's.

"I should really see what dB levels I'm pushing. Long as it can't foam my beer during a movie we are ok "
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post #6 of 73 Old 09-17-2013, 04:52 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by autox320 View Post

My first question would be what are you powering them with. Just jumped on avs again for a sec and saw your thread. If you amp the SHO's they may prove to be more than sufficient. Also verify and test different receiver settings. Maybe there is something active applying unnecessary eq.
I run my SHO's off behringer epx4000's. The output is a wall of sound much larger than the little footprint SHO's.
Im currently using emotiva amps xpa-2 for the l/r and xpa 3 for the center and surrounds. Before the sho10s i had eD cinema 12s only one tho cause i got beat out of the other 2! I was using it for center and i loved it these are okay but they just dont make me smile like the eD did! I found someone selling 3 of them
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post #7 of 73 Old 09-17-2013, 06:07 AM
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You could by a calibrated microphone and see if you have the polarity problem some people have found. That would make quite a difference. And the mic could help tune numerous other things in your system. Big upgrade IMO.
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post #8 of 73 Old 09-17-2013, 06:20 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tuxedocivic View Post

You could by a calibrated microphone and see if you have the polarity problem some people have found. That would make quite a difference. And the mic could help tune numerous other things in your system. Big upgrade IMO.
Well i have pro audessey kit with pro mic and boom and there software. Would that be as good or something better out there?
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post #9 of 73 Old 09-17-2013, 07:50 AM
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I'm not familiar with it. Can you measure frequency response?
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post #10 of 73 Old 09-17-2013, 08:42 AM - Thread Starter
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It just plug and play move the mic to diff spots and let it do its thing. Then it finishes and sets everything up.
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post #11 of 73 Old 09-17-2013, 10:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by frankie2075 View Post

Well i have pro audessey kit with pro mic and boom and there software. Would that be as good or something better out there?

The Pro kit is only useful connected to Audyssey, it is otherwise like tits on a bull. Tux is talking about REW or Omnimic, as examples.

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post #12 of 73 Old 09-17-2013, 10:18 AM - Thread Starter
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The Pro kit is only useful connected to Audyssey, it is otherwise like tits on a bull. Tux is talking about REW or Omnimic, as examples.

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Well yes it is connected to audyssey my denon 4311ci. What will i gain my using REW? How do i use it to help my system out? Example pls?
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post #13 of 73 Old 09-17-2013, 10:37 AM
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You're thinking about REW and Audyssey the wrong way. They're not equivalent.

Audyssey adjusts processing to try to overcome problems it your physical set up (the room). It can only work from the logical standpoint that the speaker's performance can't be changed. It also assumes that if it achieves the preprogrammed target response. It works as a system only - the mic is not linear, but the software knows how to compensate.

In contrast, REW allows you the freedom to tease apart the performance of the speaker (or even speaker components) from setup/room or treatments. The cost is that you need a legit mic.


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post #14 of 73 Old 09-17-2013, 10:46 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HopefulFred View Post

You're thinking about REW and Audyssey the wrong way. They're not equivalent.

Audyssey adjusts processing to try to overcome problems it your physical set up (the room). It can only work from the logical standpoint that the speaker's performance can't be changed. It also assumes that if it achieves the preprogrammed target response. It works as a system only - the mic is not linear, but the software knows how to compensate.

In contrast, REW allows you the freedom to tease apart the performance of the speaker (or even speaker components) from setup/room or treatments. The cost is that you need a legit mic.

Okay sorry but im not exactly understanding. What can REW tell me and how can i apply it to my set up to help the audio performance?
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post #15 of 73 Old 09-17-2013, 11:14 AM
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If you get a frequency response using REW or HolmImpulse, then you'll see how the speaker performs and can make adjustments to the speaker (source of sound). Audessay just adjusts your receiver to compensate. Sometime those compensations can consume huge quantities of amplifier power without you even knowing it.

I seem to recall a polarity problem with th sho10. Audessay could never fix this, although REW can, sorta.
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post #16 of 73 Old 09-17-2013, 11:40 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tuxedocivic View Post

If you get a frequency response using REW or HolmImpulse, then you'll see how the speaker performs and can make adjustments to the speaker (source of sound). Audessay just adjusts your receiver to compensate. Sometime those compensations can consume huge quantities of amplifier power without you even knowing it.

I seem to recall a polarity problem with th sho10. Audessay could never fix this, although REW can, sorta.
Okay so by physical changes u mean like to the crossover? Or simply moving the speaker a couple of inches. They sell it at parts express?
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post #17 of 73 Old 09-17-2013, 12:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by frankie2075 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by autox320 View Post

My first question would be what are you powering them with. Just jumped on avs again for a sec and saw your thread. If you amp the SHO's they may prove to be more than sufficient. Also verify and test different receiver settings. Maybe there is something active applying unnecessary eq.
I run my SHO's off behringer epx4000's. The output is a wall of sound much larger than the little footprint SHO's.
Im currently using emotiva amps xpa-2 for the l/r and xpa 3 for the center and surrounds. Before the sho10s i had eD cinema 12s only one tho cause i got beat out of the other 2! I was using it for center and i loved it these are okay but they just dont make me smile like the eD did! I found someone selling 3 of them

I'll likely trade you even up for my L/C/R eD Cinema 12's for your L/C/R CHT- Sho-10's.

My eD Cinema 12's, I bought from avsforum member carp who bought them new from eD. They are in perfect condition acoustically and functionally, but I'd just call them "good" condition cosmetically. they have some minor scratches underneath the base (where you can't see it when they are in use) from where they sit on subs.

Do you know the history on your Sho-10's?

If you are interested - PM me - we can trade pictures.

"Without subs it's just background music - with subs it's the main event!"

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post #18 of 73 Old 09-17-2013, 01:00 PM
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This may have gotten lost in the discussion, but here's a specific reason why you should consider buying a mic and testing the frequency response with REW:
Quote:
Originally Posted by tuxedocivic View Post

You could by a calibrated microphone and see if you have the polarity problem some people have found.

Maybe there is some other way to tell if you have a polarity issue. I know nothing about that issue with the SHO-10s, but if I owned them, I would search for more information and verify that my speakers do not have that problem.

I would not butcher the SHO-10s that you have, unless you just want to play and aren't worried about killing their value. They are nice speakers and have value now, but they will lose value if you mod them. If they aren't satisfying you, sell them and build or buy something else, such as the SEOS or Pi designs that are more similar to the eD Cinema speakers that you know and like.

-Max
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post #19 of 73 Old 09-17-2013, 01:15 PM
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Why not just flip the polarity and see if it sounds better or worse? It can only be one of those two options, no? biggrin.gif
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post #20 of 73 Old 09-17-2013, 01:37 PM
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Quote:
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Why not just flip the polarity and see if it sounds better or worse? It can only be one of those two options, no? :D

Listen there, MR. OBVIOUS, there is nothing so great about switching wires that a bunch of expensive measuring couldn't accomplish. biggrin.gif;)

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post #21 of 73 Old 09-17-2013, 03:36 PM
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Well, you know it can't sound good until you make a measurement confirming that- and if it doesn't confirm that it should sound good... then it doesn't sound good after all! biggrin.gif
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post #22 of 73 Old 09-17-2013, 05:05 PM
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Actually, despite a 10db hole in the frequency response, sometimes a flipped polarity can be hard to heard. It certainly sounds off, but not obvious what it is. Thats cause the power response is still flat. And at $99 for a mic, you'll use it for a lot more and be sure of the response you're getting.
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post #23 of 73 Old 09-17-2013, 11:24 PM
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There's not really an issue with the SHO's polarity. But like many speaker crossovers you can flip polarity of the tweeter leads ( just unplug and swap neg and pos) to gain a smoother transition of the crossover point. It's a few dB difference at the crossover point smoother response.

Other than that REW and a calibrated dayton EMC mic will show all.

Our SHO's are great on 400+ watts RMS per channel. As others mentioned the receiver eq may apply too much or even unnecessary amounts of -gain which saps away available power for dynamics.

"I should really see what dB levels I'm pushing. Long as it can't foam my beer during a movie we are ok "
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post #24 of 73 Old 09-18-2013, 04:13 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by autox320 View Post

There's not really an issue with the SHO's polarity. But like many speaker crossovers you can flip polarity of the tweeter leads ( just unplug and swap neg and pos) to gain a smoother transition of the crossover point. It's a few dB difference at the crossover point smoother response.

Other than that REW and a calibrated dayton EMC mic will show all.

Our SHO's are great on 400+ watts RMS per channel. As others mentioned the receiver eq may apply too much or even unnecessary amounts of -gain which saps away available power for dynamics.

Okay so my audyssey set the sho10s at -12db my surrounds are not sho10s but surrounds that i been using and had. I mean when i run auddyessy if theres a wire that not right it will come up polarity issue. But not the case with the sho10s and its not like theres a problem with them because there great lil speakers. But i just dont think im crazy about them. My own personal opinion. The center i feel i always have to turn it up cause it just not right. Im using emo amps maybe they just need more power?
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post #25 of 73 Old 09-18-2013, 05:36 AM
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Well then I would suggest that you sell your SHO-10's and build some Seos speakers to replace them. Something like the Sentental or Fusion models that use a Seos-12 and DNA-360. That would likely be a pretty good step up from the SHO10's.
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post #26 of 73 Old 09-18-2013, 06:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by autox320 View Post

There's not really an issue with the SHO's polarity. But like many speaker crossovers you can flip polarity of the tweeter leads ( just unplug and swap neg and pos) to gain a smoother transition of the crossover point. It's a few dB difference at the crossover point smoother response.

Other than that REW and a calibrated dayton EMC mic will show all.

Our SHO's are great on 400+ watts RMS per channel. As others mentioned the receiver eq may apply too much or even unnecessary amounts of -gain which saps away available power for dynamics.

I disagree that you can flip the polarity in many speakers for a smoother transition at the XO.

REW will help him see if that's the case for his speakers, and help him with much more.

It's not so much the gain that sucks up power as it is the EQ.
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post #27 of 73 Old 09-18-2013, 06:27 AM - Thread Starter
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Sounds like a kool project where do i go for this? Parts express or is there a diy kit or something?
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post #28 of 73 Old 09-18-2013, 06:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tuxedocivic View Post

I disagree that you can flip the polarity in many speakers for a smoother transition at the XO.

REW will help him see if that's the case for his speakers, and help him with much more.

It's not so much the gain that sucks up power as it is the EQ.

Maybe I can't type in a way to sound simple. EQ, gain, cut, boost. All I think is negative or positive gain at frequency is eq. He is at negative 12 db, whoah I'd start there biggrin.gif
Flip the tweeter leads IMO. You might not notice much difference, but when measuring it showed a smoother flat graph.
I just like how most are quick to just go bigger or go home. Maybe afterwards you might find out what you had wasn't far off.

Make some diy surrounds that can keep up.

"I should really see what dB levels I'm pushing. Long as it can't foam my beer during a movie we are ok "
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post #29 of 73 Old 09-18-2013, 06:58 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by autox320 View Post

Maybe I can't type in a way to sound simple. EQ, gain, cut, boost. All I think is negative or
positive gain at frequency is eq. He is at negative 12 db, whoah I'd start there biggrin.gif
Flip the tweeter leads IMO. You might not notice much difference, but when measuring it showed a smoother flat graph.
I just like how most are quick to just go bigger or go home. Maybe afterwards you might find out what you had wasn't far off.

Make some diy surrounds that can keep up.

Can i use my pro audyssey mic with rew? Send me a link where i can get this and what i need pls thanks?
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post #30 of 73 Old 09-18-2013, 07:27 AM
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You might be able to. What is the connection? Just try I guess. It won't be accurate but could show you some changes.

Or buy a mic from parts express or cross spectrum labs.
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