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post #1 of 32 Old 09-16-2013, 05:26 PM - Thread Starter
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Hey guys, I have a CV-5000 amp. I got an electrician to install a 30 amp run for the CV. Only problem is he cannot find an actual plug or receptacle for the CV to plug into. The CV is a regular 3 prong plug but the only 30 amp receptacles are different shape. What do people use to plug their amps in?? Is there some sort of adapter?? Is there a specific one that is recommended over the other? Any help is appreciated as everything is wired up and good to go except for that.

Thanks
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post #2 of 32 Old 09-16-2013, 05:29 PM
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u usually can find them at RV stores
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post #3 of 32 Old 09-16-2013, 06:15 PM
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u can just chop the end off the wire for the ipr2 and put the matching plug on it and if u ever have to warranty it just forget to ship the wire :P
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post #4 of 32 Old 09-16-2013, 06:15 PM
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post #5 of 32 Old 09-16-2013, 06:37 PM - Thread Starter
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I saw some of those RV adapters. Now when it says 30 amp to 15 amp, does it limit it or reduce it down to 15 amps or is that just the name if the regular 3 prong plug? (15amp)
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post #6 of 32 Old 09-16-2013, 06:57 PM - Thread Starter
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post #7 of 32 Old 09-16-2013, 06:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 04rex View Post

I saw some of those RV adapters. Now when it says 30 amp to 15 amp, does it limit it or reduce it down to 15 amps or is that just the name if the regular 3 prong plug? (15amp)

they shouldn't. it's just converting the plug... the only reason the 30 amp plug is different is so that you can't plug a device that NEEDS 30 amps into a 15 or 20 amp circuit... the device will draw as much as it needs. the cord that the CV-5000 SHOULD be a 30 amp cord... just using a 15 amp plug because it's the most common and can be plugged into 15 and 20 amp circuits with ease. I see no reason why the CV-5000 power cord wouldn't' be rated for 30 amps..but I don't know the details
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post #8 of 32 Old 09-16-2013, 06:58 PM
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What plug does your amp come with?


For my FP14K clone (120v) I ended up going with high quality Nema 5-20 for both receptacle and plug on amp (swapped out the 15amp plug.)

5-15 is the regular 15 amp outlets.
5-20 is the 20 amp version that you see in industrial settings and hospitals etc.
should be plenty for your amp since it is very rare it will be drawing 30 amps of current on a continual basis.

What guage wire did your electrician run?
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post #9 of 32 Old 09-16-2013, 07:16 PM - Thread Starter
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I will check out the power cord it came with.

He ran 10 gauge wire.

So is a 20 amp plug the same as a 15 amp plug? The only different one is the 30 amp?
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post #10 of 32 Old 09-16-2013, 07:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 04rex View Post

I will check out the power cord it came with.

He ran 10 gauge wire.

So is a 20 amp plug the same as a 15 amp plug? The only different one is the 30 amp?

similar. the 20 amp outlet and plug is NEAR identical to a 15 amp but it has a slight "addition" to one of the plugs. a 15 amp plug will fit into a 20 amp outlet, but a 20 amp can't fit into a 15 amp.

and 10 gauge wiring is standard for a 30 amp circuit
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post #11 of 32 Old 09-16-2013, 07:22 PM
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I'd say throw a regular 20 amp receptacle in the wall and be don't worry about it. The IEC C20 connection on the amp itself is only rated to 16 amps anyway!

Just be sure to switch out the 30 amp breaker with a 20 amp before you sell your house. wink.gif
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post #12 of 32 Old 09-16-2013, 07:26 PM
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"I'd say throw a regular 20 amp receptacle in the wall and be don't worry about it."

man, sometimes the simplest solutions just don't leap out. that's a great idea.

Listen. It's All Good.
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post #13 of 32 Old 09-16-2013, 07:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mtg90 View Post

I'd say throw a regular 20 amp receptacle in the wall and be don't worry about it. The IEC 20 connection on the amp itself is only rated to 16 amps anyway!

Just be sure to switch out the 30 amp breaker with a 20 amp before you sell your house. wink.gif

what's the IEC 20 connection? the cord or the input for the power plug is only rated thta much? I'd be surprised if the amp couldn't handle 30 amps in terms of input power.. be kind of dangerous not to
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post #14 of 32 Old 09-16-2013, 07:29 PM
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where the power cord plugs into the amp. this kind of thing: http://www.powercords.co.uk/iec320.htm

Listen. It's All Good.
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post #15 of 32 Old 09-16-2013, 07:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LTD02 View Post

where the power cord plugs into the amp. this kind of thing: http://www.powercords.co.uk/iec320.htm

ok, that's what I thought it was...

ok, I'm not electrician, so I may be over thinking this... but why would an amp that can put out 5000 watts of power be limited to an input of 16 amps???? wouldn't it make sense that you would have an IEC connection that could handle the full spectrum of power? I mean don't DJ's plug these into 50 amp circuits or what not on the road? it seems like there's a lot of power this thing COULD put out that can't because of something like that (not complaining or whatnot, honestly curious)
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post #16 of 32 Old 09-16-2013, 07:49 PM
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A lot of amps seem to be able to draw far more then the receptacles they use are rated for. Anyway it is not like the receptacle will melt down if it exceeds the rated power for a few seconds and I am sure there is some amount of safety factor built into the ratings on the receptacles too. If there was a problem using them on these amps you would think there would be a bunch threads or posts talking about melted power connectors.
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post #17 of 32 Old 09-16-2013, 07:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mtg90 View Post

A lot of amps seem to be able to draw far more then the receptacles they use are rated for. Anyway it is not like the receptacle will melt down if it exceeds the rated power for a few seconds and I am sure there is some amount of safety factor built into the ratings on the receptacles too. If there was a problem using them on these amps you would think there would be a bunch threads or posts talking about melted power connectors.


very true. i just always thought you could never draw more than what the receptacle was rated for... good to know that I can get by on a 20 amp circuit with one of those
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post #18 of 32 Old 09-16-2013, 08:24 PM
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Originally Posted by wormraper View Post

I see no reason why the CV-5000 power cord wouldn't' be rated for 30 amps..but I don't know the details

Pretty unlikely the cord is rated for 30A.

The power cord set isn't rated for full sine wave power. Typically they're sized to accomodate pink noise at 1/8 power (usually at 4 ohms) which approximates the max clean "music power" output of the amp.

Per the C-V spec, that's 13.9A at 120V, generally within the capability of a 14ga cord set (15A) and certainly with the capability of a 12ga cord set (20A)..

Just because there is a knob doesn't mean you should turn it.
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post #19 of 32 Old 09-16-2013, 08:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 04rex View Post

Hey guys, I have a CV-5000 amp. I got an electrician to install a 30 amp run for the CV. Only problem is he cannot find an actual plug or receptacle for the CV to plug into. The CV is a regular 3 prong plug but the only 30 amp receptacles are different shape. What do people use to plug their amps in?? Is there some sort of adapter?? Is there a specific one that is recommended over the other? Any help is appreciated as everything is wired up and good to go except for that.

Thanks


Pull out the 30A breaker, install a 20A breaker and put in an industrial grade plain old 20A receptacle from the likes of Hubbell, P&S, or Leviton.

Just because there is a knob doesn't mean you should turn it.
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post #20 of 32 Old 09-16-2013, 08:32 PM
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eh, so I'm guessing the moral of the story is that a 20 amp circuit is all that's really needed for this thing... lol, if it' can't pull in the full use of the 30 amp circuit then no need
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post #21 of 32 Old 09-16-2013, 08:46 PM
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It can, but typically not in any normal musical/movie duty cycle use.

If you're going to run full power sine wave tests then even a 30A circuit is not enough.

For "normal" use, the concern is the peak power demand, not continuous power demand. A 15A or 20A breaker can pass several times their ratings for short periods of time wihout tripping so a surprising amount of output necessary to cover the peaks can be had from plain old 15 or 20A circuits.

Just because there is a knob doesn't mean you should turn it.
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post #22 of 32 Old 09-16-2013, 08:56 PM
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Yep go with standard 20 amp receptacles and plug.

looks like this:

(5-20R)
http://www.amazon.com/Leviton-TWR20-W-20-Amp-125-Volt-Receptacle/dp/B001DFOZ4S/ref=sr_1_5?s=lamps-light&ie=UTF8&qid=1379389889&sr=1-5&keywords=5-20r

With a 10 guage run to the box I would put in 2 duplex outlets.

You can get them less than 5 bucks at lowes or home depot.

the 20 amp plugs look like this:

(5-20P)
http://www.amazon.com/Leviton-5366-C-Industrial-Grounding-Black-White/dp/B00002NAU9/ref=sr_1_2?s=hi&ie=UTF8&qid=1379390022&sr=1-2&keywords=5-20p

The breaker is there to protect the wire so you should be ok leaving 30amp breaker, not sure what the code is though, might want to ask your electrician.
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post #23 of 32 Old 09-16-2013, 09:39 PM
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It is a Code violation to connect a 30A circuit to 20A receptacles. The 10ga wire is OK, just not the 30A breaker on 20A receptacles.

Just because there is a knob doesn't mean you should turn it.
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post #24 of 32 Old 09-16-2013, 11:18 PM
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good to know.
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post #25 of 32 Old 09-17-2013, 09:22 AM - Thread Starter
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Ok so i should deop it downto a 20 amp breaker and get a 20 amp plug? That would be good enough?

So IF i wanted to keep the 30 amp, i would need one of thise adapter things listed before?
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post #26 of 32 Old 09-17-2013, 09:31 AM
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post #27 of 32 Old 09-17-2013, 10:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 04rex View Post

Ok so i should deop it downto a 20 amp breaker and get a 20 amp plug? That would be good enough?

So IF i wanted to keep the 30 amp, i would need one of thise adapter things listed before?


No, don't replace the power cord plug with a 30A plug. The power cord on the amp isn't rated for 30A, it's probably just a 15A rated power cord (14ga), maybe 20A rated if it's a 12ga power cord.

And yes, a 20A breaker and receptacle is plenty unless you plan on bench testing continuous rated power using with test tones. And, as said before, if the plan includes testing with full rated power using test tones then even a 30A circuit isn't enough for that.

Here is the input power consumption from Cerwin's literature

Current Consumption 120Vac
@ 1/8 power @4 ohms 13.9A
@ 1/3 power @4 ohms 26.9A
@ Rated power @4 ohms 56.4A

The 1/8 power rating represents typical max clean "music power" current draw. This is likely the back panel input power rating of the amp.
The 1/3 pwer rating typically is representative of "music power" with heavy clipping
The Rated power demand is on the test bench using sine waves to produce full continuous rated power.

As you can see, a 20A circuit is fine for normal use.

Just because there is a knob doesn't mean you should turn it.
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post #28 of 32 Old 09-17-2013, 11:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by whoaru99 View Post

And yes, a 20A breaker and receptacle is plenty unless you plan on bench testing continuous rated power using with test tones.

+1

In hindsight, the upsized 30amp wiring, combined with a 20a breaker, and 20a receptacle, would've been fine.

If they're robust enough, amplifiers can pull extraordinarily high amounts of current from the wall, due to typical circuit breaker trip curve characteristics.
To allow for the very high currents inherent to motor start up, etc, circuit breakers will pass enormous amounts of current past their normal rated size. For example, a 20 amp circuit can pass 7-8 times the rated 20amp trip amount, .. for up to a second or more. It will allow up to 3x the rated amount for up to 10sec or so. And most importantly, the same 20amp circuit, can allow up to 1.5-2times the rated amount for a period extending as long as 30 seconds.

That's over 100amps for around 1-2 seconds, about 60amps for around 10 seconds, and the circuit will allow 30-40amps for as long as 30 seconds! From a 20a breaker.

This is why voltage drop, and ample current delivery for instantaneous peaks can be an issue. Up-size those amplifier/subwoofer circuits. Not the breaker size, upsize the wiring. As I illustrated above, the breaker isn't the limiting factor for our uses.

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post #29 of 32 Old 09-17-2013, 12:07 PM
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interesting. thanks for the info guys. I'm having a dedicated 20 amp circuit put in for my Peavey IPR 3000, but I'm gonna have him upgrade to 10 gauge wiring in case I ever wanna put a beast like CV5000 or IPR 7500 or just double up on the IPR 3000's in there. give me some future proofing


oh, and weird qeustion. what do you guys use for surge protection on a 20 amp outlet??? I was doing some research and realized that most surge protectors that I found could only do 15 amp protection... none of the stores had any 20 amp rated surge protectors. where can I find them to protect my 20 amp circuit?
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post #30 of 32 Old 09-17-2013, 03:11 PM
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I don't use any surge protection nor line condition for the majority of my gear. That where I do use it is only because I bought an APC H15 on blowout sale to see what they're all about. Since I have it I figure might as well use it in my bedroom system. Nothing of the sort connected to my main system.

What I'd recommend is a whole house protector that installs in the power meter base or at the main breaker panel.

Just because there is a knob doesn't mean you should turn it.
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