Amplifier for passive Klipsch KW120 THX Sub - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1 of 32 Old 09-24-2013, 08:09 AM - Thread Starter
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I did not get much answers on the Klipsch thread so I am trying my luck here with you folks:

I could get my hands on a 2nd hand Klipsch KW-120 subwoofer. I already got two in the front (running on Klipsch KA1000THX amp) and want to place one in the back.

What amplifier similar to the Klipsch KA1000THX (too expensive new) could I take? Would a Behringer EP4000 suffice? Other options?

FREQUENCY RESPONSE:20Hz-1kHz +0/-3dB
POWER HANDLING:FTC Rated Power: 500W into 8 ohms, 1000W into 4 ohms
AMPLIFIER:High-Efficiency Class D

http://www.klipsch.com/ka-1000-thx-a.../details#specs

Looking forward to hearing your thoughts.

TIA
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post #2 of 32 Old 09-24-2013, 12:06 PM
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The EP4000 seems like it would be a good match (450w @ 8ohms per channel) but you will need a highpass filter to protect the driver. There is the iNUKE 3000 with DSP that can do a 20hz highpass and from what I read, has similar performance to the EP4000.


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post #3 of 32 Old 09-25-2013, 12:27 AM - Thread Starter
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I am using an AntiMode 8033 DSP which has a subsonic setting of 10Hz, would that suffice?
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post #4 of 32 Old 09-25-2013, 01:16 AM
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Yes, that would work.


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post #5 of 32 Old 09-25-2013, 05:13 AM - Thread Starter
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What about the Speakon cable adapter? They are from Monster and NL2 type. That should not be a problem for the Behringer should it?
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post #6 of 32 Old 09-25-2013, 12:15 PM
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NL2 will work for stereo but if you ever plan to use the iNUKE bridged then you need a 4 pole connector (NL4). 


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post #7 of 32 Old 09-25-2013, 12:35 PM
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post #8 of 32 Old 09-26-2013, 11:36 PM - Thread Starter
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Thanks I have thought about the Dayton amp but it is limited with a high HPF of 20 Hz and its more expensive than a used EP4000.
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post #9 of 32 Old 09-26-2013, 11:46 PM
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just a heads up...the sub is ported and has a modest driver in it. if you put an ep4000 on it with no high pass filter, the chance of you destroying the driver is high.

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post #10 of 32 Old 09-26-2013, 11:53 PM
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"I am using an AntiMode 8033 DSP which has a subsonic setting of 10Hz, would that suffice?"

looks like the tuning on that box is somewhere around 24hz or so, so a high pass filter at 22hz or so is about where you'd want it. a filter at 10hz will offer next to no protection for the driver in that subwoofer.

http://www.audioholics.com/soundbar-and-satellite-speaker-reviews/klipsch-thx-ultra2/page-5

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post #11 of 32 Old 09-27-2013, 01:43 AM - Thread Starter
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I spoke with the German Klipsch sales agency and the technician told me that the Klipsch KA1000 amplifier did not have any HPF at all.
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post #12 of 32 Old 09-27-2013, 01:57 AM
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As an FYI, when wiring the KW120 sub, you only need to use the #1 (+/-) speakon connection terminals. The second pair on the connector goes no where in the sub as the driver is a simple +/- single pair.

This was confirmed by Klipsch and they had no explanation why there is an additional, unused pair. They supply 14/4 cable with the KA-1000 amp, KW-120 sub combination, you only need 14/2.

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post #13 of 32 Old 09-27-2013, 02:01 AM - Thread Starter
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I am not sure I fully understand. Could I use the original cable which comes with the sub?
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post #14 of 32 Old 09-27-2013, 02:10 AM
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he was mistaken and probably thought you were asking about a user configurable/settable/changeable high pass filter. not one that was built in. he probably looked at the manual. saw nothing and concluded it wasn't there.

but we can do better than that. the sub was measured here:

http://www.specsserver.com/cache/frwhscmswnbk.pdf

the subwoofer is tuned to around 25hz. the saddle in the impedance measurement confirms that.

ported roll off at 18-24db/octave or so below tuning depending on q.

from 20hz down to 10hz the rolloff is 50db. since that is one octave, the rolloff is 50db/octave. that means something other than the cabinet was rolling off the spl. that could only be a high pass filter. a second order high pass is about 12db/octave, so i would bet that there is *at least* a second order high pass filter built into that amp.

it would make sense from an engineering perspective and it is confirmed in the measurements.

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post #15 of 32 Old 09-27-2013, 02:19 AM - Thread Starter
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Ok that makes sense, thanks for the PDF.

One question, would it harm the sub to have a PEQ raise at the tunning frquency? I have currently the "Lift25" function enabled on the AntiMode 8033 to extend the lowest output. It lifts 25hz for about 5db (measured with REW).
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post #16 of 32 Old 09-27-2013, 03:02 AM
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no problem.

eq does not matter. what matters is how much total power you put on the driver and the enclosure that it is in and how it is protected with a high pass filter.

each 3db is double power.

5 db gain is a little over 3 times power. so if 3 times power doesn't overshoot excursion, your fine. if it does, no good.

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post #17 of 32 Old 09-27-2013, 05:37 AM - Thread Starter
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Thanks. I think for now I will stay with my 2 KW120 I already have as they give me good SPL and output below 20hz. Once we move into a bigger house I will look into building 1-2 DIY subs. biggrin.gif
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post #18 of 32 Old 01-22-2017, 08:47 AM
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I'm wiring my kw120 subs to some crown amps. Have questions about the original neutrik speakon connectors. The wire supply to me by Klipsch are model nl4fc which is a 4 wire connector. The wire itself is marked 2 x 12 gauge which clearly does not match either the connector or the amount of wires inside. The specifications for the speaker call for a nl2, two conductor speakon connection. So my question and concern is why would the manufacturer say one thing and then do something else? Would it be any possible benefit?

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post #19 of 32 Old 01-22-2017, 09:22 AM
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It looks like 4 connectors, maybe not labeled correctly on the wire?

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post #20 of 32 Old 02-04-2017, 03:38 PM
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The wire is labeled 12/2 but definately 12/4 wires inside and into a neutrik speakon nl4. Im thinking they got a deal on the wire and connectors because the speakers only have a nl2 connection.

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post #21 of 32 Old 02-04-2017, 08:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mmrogge View Post
The wire is labeled 12/2 but definately 12/4 wires inside and into a neutrik speakon nl4. Im thinking they got a deal on the wire and connectors because the speakers only have a nl2 connection.

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Not many people open up the wiring connector in the plug n' play world. Straight from engineering: we used 4 conductor wire, and 4 conductor plugs, the wires are in parallel inside the enclosure and amplifier, it reduces loss.

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post #22 of 32 Old 02-05-2017, 11:19 AM
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Not many people open up the wiring connector in the plug n' play world. Straight from engineering: we used 4 conductor wire, and 4 conductor plugs, the wires are in parallel inside the enclosure and amplifier, it reduces loss.
Thanks for the reply. Let's say that your information, although contrary to the written specs is correct... what benefit would there to use a 4wire nl4 connection if the mfr supplied amplifier has only a 2wire nl2 output??

I checked everything again. The subs actually have a nl4 port. I may have said otherwise previously. But the amp specs say nl2.

Also curious since I've sold the klipsch amp and replaced it with a more powerful paid of crown amps how I should wire. The amps are going to be bridged mono. Planning to use 12/2 wire with nl2 ends. Are you suggesting to switch back to 12/4 wire? And if so how would you get the amp to power nl4 when it's designed for nl2 2 wires.

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post #23 of 32 Old 02-05-2017, 11:44 AM
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Thanks for the reply. Let's say that your information, although contrary to the written specs is correct... what benefit would there to use a 4wire nl4 connection if the mfr supplied amplifier has only a 2wire nl2 output??

I checked everything again. The subs actually have a nl4 port. I may have said otherwise previously. But the amp specs say nl2.

Also curious since I've sold the klipsch amp and replaced it with a more powerful paid of crown amps how I should wire. The amps are going to be bridged mono. Planning to use 12/2 wire with nl2 ends. Are you suggesting to switch back to 12/4 wire? And if so how would you get the amp to power nl4 when it's designed for nl2 2 wires.

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I read the specs for the crown amplifier. Says you can use nl2 or nl4 for bridged. Then it says on a different page to connect the speakers to the 1+ and 2- wires. So it begs to ask..... Wouldn't that defeat using a 4 wire configuration? Not that my klipsch subwoofer has standard speaker inputs. I just hate to spend the money and the time to take out my 12/2 wire and replace with 12/4 unless it would actually be utilized and provide some actual benefit to me. Currently wired with 12/2 monster



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post #24 of 32 Old 02-05-2017, 12:13 PM
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On my Crown XLS1500s, for bridged operation, you use a 4 pole speakon, with positive going to 1+, negative goes +2. Just 2 wires used.

Can you disassemble the sub, remove the driver or whatever, to see how it is wired? If it is just one driver, nothing else, should be no biggy. Usually it's positive to terminal +1, negative to terminal -1. Special wiring connection for a bridged amp configuration has nothing to do with the sub connection on the other end.

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post #25 of 32 Old 02-05-2017, 01:17 PM
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On my Crown XLS1500s, for bridged operation, you use a 4 pole speakon, with positive going to 1+, negative goes +2. Just 2 wires used.

Can you disassemble the sub, remove the driver or whatever, to see how it is wired? If it is just one driver, nothing else, should be no biggy. Usually it's positive to terminal +1, negative to terminal -1. Special wiring connection for a bridged amp configuration has nothing to do with the sub connection on the other end.
I couldn't view the pdf. But forgetting the inside of the sub... if your only using 2 of 4 poles of the speakon what the purpose of using 12/4 wire and not just 12/2


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post #26 of 32 Old 02-05-2017, 02:03 PM
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I don't see any advantage unless they doubled up two conductors per terminal, either on the male or female sides. Can you twist apart the speakons connectors to see how they are wired? Two 12 gauge wires together equal 9 awg total.

Then again, according to the Neutrik chart, for a stereo setup, +/-1 goes to the left channel, +/-2 goes to the right channel. So if they wired a conductor to each of the four terminals, then it may just be a standard way to do it, per pro audio standards. Maybe the +1/+2 and -1/-2 are jumpered together in the sub? That's why I suggested doing some detective work inside the chassis. Just grab a continuity tester and go to town.

If that is the case, and you want to use all 4 wires (two per leg) then I can tell you from experience that you will have difficulties fitting two wires into each of the two terminals needed in the new speakon config for bridging on the amp side. Been there done that. I ended up modding my Crowns with these: http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/...AofL7h58HQ4El0 and then used HD spade connectors on the binding posts, instead of the speakons.

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post #27 of 32 Old 02-05-2017, 02:10 PM
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I couldn't view the pdf. But forgetting the inside of the sub... if your only using 2 of 4 poles of the speakon what the purpose of using 12/4 wire and not just 12/2


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Found the neutrik pdf. Appears to be referring to how to bridge an amplifier. But the crown can be bridged internally and powered on channel 1

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post #28 of 32 Old 02-05-2017, 02:15 PM
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I don't see any advantage unless they doubled up two conductors per terminal, either on the male or female sides. Can you twist apart the speakons connectors to see how they are wired? Two 12 gauge wires together equal 9 awg total.

Then again, according to the Neutrik chart, for a stereo setup, +/-1 goes to the left channel, +/-2 goes to the right channel. So if they wired a conductor to each of the four terminals, then it may just be a standard way to do it, per pro audio standards. Maybe the +1/+2 and -1/-2 are jumpered together in the sub? That's why I suggested doing some detective work inside the chassis. Just grab a continuity tester and go to town.

If that is the case, and you want to use all 4 wires (two per leg) then I can tell you from experience that you will have difficulties fitting two wires into each of the two terminals needed in the new speakon config for bridging on the amp side. Been there done that. I ended up modding my Crowns with these: http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/...AofL7h58HQ4El0 and then used HD spade connectors on the binding posts, instead of the speakons.


Definately nl4 wired to 4 lugs

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post #29 of 32 Old 02-05-2017, 02:18 PM
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Yeap, I see (duh on me)
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post #30 of 32 Old 02-05-2017, 02:23 PM
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Originally Posted by mmrogge View Post


Found the neutrik pdf. Appears to be referring to how to bridge an amplifier. But the crown can be bridged internally and powered on channel 1

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Yeah its kinda confusing, that's why I later deleted it. But basically it showing you what the Crown manual states, which is for the cable end on the amp side, you want to use +1 and +2.

Last edited by jkhome; 02-05-2017 at 02:45 PM.
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