Si d2 or d4 with nu46000? Ready to pull trigger before si sale ends. - AVS Forum
Forum Jump: 
 
Thread Tools
post #1 of 23 Old 09-25-2013, 09:22 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
MALIX's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Sonoma County CA
Posts: 121
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 25
Ready to pull trigger on the 98% sub system. Decided on 4 si 18 and the 4 channel inuke6000plus a mini dsp. Hate to ask but I am too noobish to know for myself and have researched to no avail.. Seems to be some info. here and there...but its either incomplete or fills in partially but not enough for me to be sure...

So. With my 5500 cube room I am sure that 4 18's will be a great start ( and hopefully the finish:rolleyes:). Based on what vie found the inuke 4 channel 6000 should fill the bill pretty well. But it leaves me with the Same old question of d2 or d4 si18's? Then once I know that how to wire it all up to get the best use out of the amp/ speaker combo. I am planning to have this all on a 20 amp dedicated circuit.
3 things I have questions about ..

1. D2's or D4's?


2. How to wire up this combo? This amp appears to not advertise 2 ohm use.. But in the nu4 thread it is stated as ok for 2 ohm.. Bu that thread is the only place I have seen 2 ohms suggested. In my case I think I would tend to run the amp less hard and give up the last few decibels. But I say that assuming that the amp can still give the speakers what they need. while running less hard.

And finally I believe the SI sale ends shortly so if you guys could help me make that deadline, That would be sweet!



Thanks in advance!!

Sony HW50ES | Denon X4000 | Rocket RS850s | Rocket RS200 | Rocket RS750s | Rocket RS250s | Quad Stereo integrity 18" d4 sealed subs | Inuke nu46000 | MiniDSP | Oppo 103D

My Build http://www.avsforum.com/t/1510721/the-bass-for-the-98-diy-build
MALIX is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 23 Old 09-26-2013, 12:58 AM
Senior Member
 
Swolephile's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 493
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 48
The inuke 6000 and nu4-6000 are not 2ohm stable. If your going to go with this amp get the d4 drivers.
Swolephile is offline  
post #3 of 23 Old 09-26-2013, 09:15 AM - Thread Starter
Member
 
MALIX's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Sonoma County CA
Posts: 121
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 25
Can someone please confirm this? This wiring diagram from crutchfield shows a 4 channel amp with 4- 4ohm dvc subs. Would this be the correct way to wire this all up? It is confusing because it seems to indicate the outcome to be 4 x 2 ohm load.

Sony HW50ES | Denon X4000 | Rocket RS850s | Rocket RS200 | Rocket RS750s | Rocket RS250s | Quad Stereo integrity 18" d4 sealed subs | Inuke nu46000 | MiniDSP | Oppo 103D

My Build http://www.avsforum.com/t/1510721/the-bass-for-the-98-diy-build
MALIX is offline  
post #4 of 23 Old 09-26-2013, 11:49 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Trepidati0n's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 1,084
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Liked: 91
The picture is correct. Each voice coil is 4 ohms for a "D4". There are TWO coils. You wire the coils either parallel (4/2=2) or series (4+4=8)

In this case, it is parallel therefore two ohms. What we don't know is if the iNUKE NU4-6000 is really stable on 2 ohm loads (most people think it is not). If you are willing to give up a bit of headroom, get the D2's and wire them in series (2+2 = 4 ohm). Any amp out there does 4 ohms. The amp should do well even if all four channel are hitting the same note.

I must be guilty because people say I am guilty because they chose to call me guilty because they refuse to see the truth. Much easier to be part of the mob..
Trepidati0n is offline  
post #5 of 23 Old 09-26-2013, 12:03 PM
Bass Enabler
 
Scott Simonian's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Clovis, CA
Posts: 13,223
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 159 Post(s)
Liked: 640
Quote:
Originally Posted by Swolephile View Post

The inuke 6000 and nu4-6000 are not 2ohm stable. If your going to go with this amp get the d4 drivers.

The nu4-6000 IS 2ohm stable.

I'd say go with dual 4ohm for this reason....

With dual4's and this 4ch amp you can do two things:

1) Build dual two driver cabs either front firing or dual opposed. This nets a 4ohm total load with both drivers and you can then bridge a set of channels on the nu4-6k and power them well.

2) Wire each driver for a 2ohm load and build four separate enclosures. Use each channel for each sub in each corner of the room.

Bam! Easy.

smile.gif

My Dual 18" LLT subs 120dB down to 10hz

 

Plan9Reloaded Co-host

Listen to the Plan9Reloaded Gaming and Technology Podcast (may contain NSFW language)

https://soundcloud.com/plan9reloaded/sets/podcast - direct pod link

http://plan9reloaded.com/site/ - main website

Scott Simonian is online now  
post #6 of 23 Old 09-26-2013, 12:26 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
MALIX's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Sonoma County CA
Posts: 121
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 25
Scott .. This is what has furthered my confusion. I have looked at the literature for the inuke and dont see behringer state anywhere that its 2 ohm stable. If o may ask what makes you sure on this.

Also how much is gained/lost in the 4 d4's for 2 ohms vs 4 d2's for 4 ohms.. How much do i give up? Do i really need to squeeze every last drop from this amp to make these drivers give up the goods?

Sony HW50ES | Denon X4000 | Rocket RS850s | Rocket RS200 | Rocket RS750s | Rocket RS250s | Quad Stereo integrity 18" d4 sealed subs | Inuke nu46000 | MiniDSP | Oppo 103D

My Build http://www.avsforum.com/t/1510721/the-bass-for-the-98-diy-build
MALIX is offline  
post #7 of 23 Old 09-26-2013, 12:41 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Trepidati0n's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 1,084
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Liked: 91
Huh?

http://www.behringer.com/EN/Products/NU4-6000.aspx
Quote:
Delivers 4 x 1500 Watts into 2 Ohms, 2 x 3000 Watts into 4 Ohms and weighs less than 12 lbs / 5.5 kg

I must be guilty because people say I am guilty because they chose to call me guilty because they refuse to see the truth. Much easier to be part of the mob..
Trepidati0n is offline  
post #8 of 23 Old 09-26-2013, 01:38 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
MALIX's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Sonoma County CA
Posts: 121
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 25
Dammit. I checked 2 or 3 times but missed the obvious. Maybe confused it with the 2 channel dsp? Sorry

Sony HW50ES | Denon X4000 | Rocket RS850s | Rocket RS200 | Rocket RS750s | Rocket RS250s | Quad Stereo integrity 18" d4 sealed subs | Inuke nu46000 | MiniDSP | Oppo 103D

My Build http://www.avsforum.com/t/1510721/the-bass-for-the-98-diy-build
MALIX is offline  
post #9 of 23 Old 09-26-2013, 10:42 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
LTD02's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 15,976
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 136 Post(s)
Liked: 854
"Maybe confused it with the 2 channel dsp?"

yes. it is very confusing.

the nu-6000dsp is a two channel amp and each channel is good for 4 ohms. if going that route, dual 4 ohm drivers is what you want. wire the coils in series for 8 ohms per driver, then parallel two drivers per channel for a net of 4 ohms. this will give you 1100 watts per driver which is pretty much perfect.

the nu4-6000 is a different amp. it has no dsp. it has four channels and each channel can handle a 2 ohms load. if going that route, dual 4 ohm drivers is again what you want, but each driver would have the coils wired in parallel for net of 2 ohms per driver. one driver would be connected to each channel. the power would be the same 1100 watts per driver.

behringer says 1500 watts, but that is a fantasy number. actual measured results are 1100 watts.

Listen. It's All Good.
LTD02 is online now  
post #10 of 23 Old 09-26-2013, 10:46 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
LTD02's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 15,976
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 136 Post(s)
Liked: 854
so among your choices, just so that it is clear, i would suggest the nu6000dsp amp and four si drivers with dual 4 ohm coils.

then this: http://www.avsforum.com/t/1489541/large-ported-dayton-ho18s#post_23711347

!!

Listen. It's All Good.
LTD02 is online now  
post #11 of 23 Old 09-27-2013, 05:35 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Gorilla83's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Delaware County, PA
Posts: 3,280
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 75 Post(s)
Liked: 267
Quote:
Originally Posted by LTD02 View Post

so among your choices, just so that it is clear, i would suggest the nu6000dsp amp and four si drivers with dual 4 ohm coils.

then this: http://www.avsforum.com/t/1489541/large-ported-dayton-ho18s#post_23711347

!!

Allllll day long. biggrin.gif
Gorilla83 is online now  
post #12 of 23 Old 09-27-2013, 06:51 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Trepidati0n's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 1,084
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Liked: 91
Quote:
Originally Posted by LTD02 View Post

"Maybe confused it with the 2 channel dsp?"

yes. it is very confusing.

the nu-6000dsp is a two channel amp and each channel is good for 4 ohms. if going that route, dual 4 ohm drivers is what you want. wire the coils in series for 8 ohms per driver, then parallel two drivers per channel for a net of 4 ohms. this will give you 1100 watts per driver which is pretty much perfect.

the nu4-6000 is a different amp. it has no dsp. it has four channels and each channel can handle a 2 ohms load. if going that route, dual 4 ohm drivers is again what you want, but each driver would have the coils wired in parallel for net of 2 ohms per driver. one driver would be connected to each channel. the power would be the same 1100 watts per driver.

behringer says 1500 watts, but that is a fantasy number. actual measured results are 1100 watts.

Side topic. Wouldn't it be better to wire the drivers coils in parallel (e.g. 4/2 = 2) and then series the drivers (2+2 = 4)? This should ensure the best current sharing between the drivers (we do this is resistor networks for large power converters). I know the math is the same..but in terms of dynamic current sharing, it seems it would work out better this way.

Also for the amp, you can get the NON-DSP version and get the MiniDSP for ~$125 with a nice case. So, you pay a bit more for the external DSP, but it might provide you more flexbility (options) down the road if you plan on digging below 20Hz

I must be guilty because people say I am guilty because they chose to call me guilty because they refuse to see the truth. Much easier to be part of the mob..
Trepidati0n is offline  
post #13 of 23 Old 09-27-2013, 07:17 AM
AVS Addicted Member
 
LTD02's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 15,976
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 136 Post(s)
Liked: 854
not sure. it was suggested to me long ago that because non-linear effects in each driver that is best to parallel *drivers* when something like this is done, but i don't have any data to back that one up.

Listen. It's All Good.
LTD02 is online now  
post #14 of 23 Old 09-27-2013, 07:33 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Trepidati0n's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 1,084
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Liked: 91
^^^^^^

Fair point. By wiring the drivers in parallel with a good amp, you effectively decouple them. Very interesting stuff. Love it.

I must be guilty because people say I am guilty because they chose to call me guilty because they refuse to see the truth. Much easier to be part of the mob..
Trepidati0n is offline  
post #15 of 23 Old 09-27-2013, 09:49 AM - Thread Starter
Member
 
MALIX's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Sonoma County CA
Posts: 121
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by LTD02 View Post

so among your choices, just so that it is clear, i would suggest the nu6000dsp amp and four si drivers with dual 4 ohm coils.

then this: http://www.avsforum.com/t/1489541/large-ported-dayton-ho18s#post_23711347

!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gorilla83 View Post

Allllll day long. biggrin.gif

Ok the 4 ohm drivers got ordered at the sale price so thank a ton guys ( whoohoooo!!) ... now to the amp. I imagine you recommend the above simply for the added dsp?

as suggested above I was already thinking the mini-dsp for more flexibility down the line.. so if that is the case NU46000 seems to be the ticket. Am I missing something?

Sony HW50ES | Denon X4000 | Rocket RS850s | Rocket RS200 | Rocket RS750s | Rocket RS250s | Quad Stereo integrity 18" d4 sealed subs | Inuke nu46000 | MiniDSP | Oppo 103D

My Build http://www.avsforum.com/t/1510721/the-bass-for-the-98-diy-build
MALIX is offline  
post #16 of 23 Old 09-27-2013, 09:53 AM
Bass Enabler
 
Scott Simonian's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Clovis, CA
Posts: 13,223
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 159 Post(s)
Liked: 640
Quote:
Originally Posted by MALIX View Post


Ok the 4 ohm drivers got ordered at the sale price so thank a ton guys ( whoohoooo!!) ... now to the amp. I imagine you recommend the above simply for the added dsp?

as suggested above I was already thinking the mini-dsp for more flexibility down the line.. so if that is the case NU46000 seems to be the ticket. Am I missing something?

Or you could get the non-DSP version of the nu6k. It just depends on how many positions you want to control. Two locations is fine with the 2ch amp. If you want four independent bass "zones" then you should get the nu4-6k.


Oh and awesome! biggrin.gif

My Dual 18" LLT subs 120dB down to 10hz

 

Plan9Reloaded Co-host

Listen to the Plan9Reloaded Gaming and Technology Podcast (may contain NSFW language)

https://soundcloud.com/plan9reloaded/sets/podcast - direct pod link

http://plan9reloaded.com/site/ - main website

Scott Simonian is online now  
post #17 of 23 Old 09-27-2013, 10:56 AM
AVS Addicted Member
 
LTD02's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 15,976
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 136 Post(s)
Liked: 854
bravo!

...and +1 to what scott just said.

Listen. It's All Good.
LTD02 is online now  
post #18 of 23 Old 09-27-2013, 11:07 AM - Thread Starter
Member
 
MALIX's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Sonoma County CA
Posts: 121
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 25
Oh and awesome! biggrin.gif[/quote]

No man you guys are awesome! all you crazy basterds with foundation busting systems... are kind enough to help us noobs out. If it wasnt for you guys i would have never have been able to do the following.

1. Step up to a whole new level of quality in bass.Which equates to pure additional enjoyment everytime I will step in that room..
2. Expand my knowledge of how these systems go together, and learn the associated skills to make it happen..
3. All while saving money (and as mentioned.. gaining quality and spl...)

Thanks dudes...

Sony HW50ES | Denon X4000 | Rocket RS850s | Rocket RS200 | Rocket RS750s | Rocket RS250s | Quad Stereo integrity 18" d4 sealed subs | Inuke nu46000 | MiniDSP | Oppo 103D

My Build http://www.avsforum.com/t/1510721/the-bass-for-the-98-diy-build
MALIX is offline  
post #19 of 23 Old 09-27-2013, 01:43 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Trepidati0n's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 1,084
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Liked: 91
You guys are jerks you know that. I mean...seriously. I just ordered two HT 18 D2 and just switched it to four HT 18 D4's. What do you have to say for yourselves? tongue.gif

I must be guilty because people say I am guilty because they chose to call me guilty because they refuse to see the truth. Much easier to be part of the mob..
Trepidati0n is offline  
post #20 of 23 Old 09-27-2013, 02:23 PM
Bass Enabler
 
Scott Simonian's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Clovis, CA
Posts: 13,223
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 159 Post(s)
Liked: 640
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trepidati0n View Post

You guys are jerks you know that. I mean...seriously. I just ordered two HT 18 D2 and just switched it to four HT 18 D4's. What do you have to say for yourselves? tongue.gif

"Uhhuhhuh uhhuhuh uhhuhuh. Damn we're smooth. Uhuhuhuhuh!"



cool.gif

My Dual 18" LLT subs 120dB down to 10hz

 

Plan9Reloaded Co-host

Listen to the Plan9Reloaded Gaming and Technology Podcast (may contain NSFW language)

https://soundcloud.com/plan9reloaded/sets/podcast - direct pod link

http://plan9reloaded.com/site/ - main website

Scott Simonian is online now  
post #21 of 23 Old 09-27-2013, 05:40 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
MALIX's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Sonoma County CA
Posts: 121
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trepidati0n View Post

You guys are jerks you know that. I mean...seriously. I just ordered two HT 18 D2 and just switched it to four HT 18 D4's. What do you have to say for yourselves? tongue.gif

DANG TREP!!.. They got you too?? Fargin Bastages!

Whatchu gonna power yours with.??

Sony HW50ES | Denon X4000 | Rocket RS850s | Rocket RS200 | Rocket RS750s | Rocket RS250s | Quad Stereo integrity 18" d4 sealed subs | Inuke nu46000 | MiniDSP | Oppo 103D

My Build http://www.avsforum.com/t/1510721/the-bass-for-the-98-diy-build
MALIX is offline  
post #22 of 23 Old 09-28-2013, 02:23 AM
AVS Addicted Member
 
LTD02's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 15,976
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 136 Post(s)
Liked: 854
"You guys are jerks you know that. I mean...seriously. I just ordered two HT 18 D2 and just switched it to four HT 18 D4's."

bravo!

"What do you have to say for yourselves?"

bravo! :-)~

Listen. It's All Good.
LTD02 is online now  
post #23 of 23 Old 09-28-2013, 04:33 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Trepidati0n's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 1,084
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Liked: 91
Quote:
Originally Posted by MALIX View Post

DANG TREP!!.. They got you too?? Fargin Bastages!

Whatchu gonna power yours with.??

Probably just an iNuke 6000. I look at my basement and I just don't see any "growth" (e.g. more subs) in the next two years. I figure the 4 subs + iNuke6000 will keep me in smiles just long enough to where financial resources will be available again.. Still considering if the 6000DSP or the 6000+ MiniDSP as the "right choice". However, playing with the iNuke DSP software, I'll get mostly what I want...just not sure how much "boost" i'll get tout of it below 20Hz even if I do a balanced gain around 20 Hz.

Secondarily...I need these subs for low frequency sweeps. I don't quite trust the drywall job our contractor did and need to check for integrity. wink.gif

I must be guilty because people say I am guilty because they chose to call me guilty because they refuse to see the truth. Much easier to be part of the mob..
Trepidati0n is offline  
Reply DIY Speakers and Subs

User Tag List

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off