Dual LMS 5400 Ultras - AVS Forum
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DIY Speakers and Subs > Dual LMS 5400 Ultras
kcnitro07's Avatar kcnitro07 08:33 AM 10-02-2013
So I'm all but deceived into adding 2 lms ultra 5400s in 3-3.5 sealed enclosures to my 2 dayton Titanic MKIII 15s. I currently have an EPX 4000 powering the Daytons, but I'm cursion what amp would be best to power the ultra 5400s. I'm cheap so I've only really looked at the class d cheapo Peavy or Behringer amps. So far I've considered:

Peavey IPR 7500
Behringer Inuke 12000
2 x Behringer EP4000

What are your guys thoughs on what the best amp/combo would be for powering dual LMS 5400 and keeping the 15s.

LTD02's Avatar LTD02 08:55 AM 10-02-2013
check your impedance matching there. the lms is 4 ohms (or 1 ohm) and you want something like 4kw per driver. a bridged cv5000 per driver would be good, but that's not cheap (well, maybe it is). :-)

an inuke6000 or ipr7500 are probably the cheapest solutions, but underpowered for that driver.
jpmst3's Avatar jpmst3 08:55 AM 10-02-2013
It depends on what your needs are.

I would simply get the most power you can afford. The LMS can handle copious amounts of power.
Or you could go with the iNUKE NU4-6000 and bridge both sides.

You may not need 5Kw per driver. It all depends on your environment and listening habits.
Trepidati0n's Avatar Trepidati0n 09:21 AM 10-02-2013
I believe that sub is rated for 8kW short duration. At that point, you pretty much need a 14000 bridged to exceed its capacity. Maybe two clones? Simply put I've never heard of people overheating this sub...only bottoming it out. eek.gif
kcnitro07's Avatar kcnitro07 09:56 AM 10-02-2013
Agreed! I don't want to buy a clone, I am a warranty whore....as in...I want a warranty.... I am looking at the behringer nu12000, which supposedly will be 6k peak @ 4 ohms x 2....I think that would give me what i"m looking for, but when will it be available is the question.

My goal is really the same as most people around here....a good sounding home theater set up that is capable of reproducing LFE. My current system makes bad sounds on multiple movies that I enjoy, so I figure I'll suppliment the 15s with bigger badder 18s and why not go all out and then hope to be content for a long time (I strategically placed the word hope in that sentence)!
BassThatHz's Avatar BassThatHz 10:44 AM 10-02-2013
Most people who go for dual LMS 5400, go for quads afterward.

Definitely don't get dual EP4k's, not enough power.

I've been able to overheat a pair of LMS's with a Crown iTech 8000, which is a bit less power than a Real Deal Gruppen 14k (or clone), but it took 4-8hours of continuously loud bass to do it. biggrin.gif

If you leave the LMS off for 5 minutes it cools back down to normal, so it's not the end of the world.

I trust PowerSoft, Crown iTech, Real Gruppen or a (working) clone to do the job.

I'm unsure I would trust the IPR or NU... just because I don't know them at all.
desertdome's Avatar desertdome 10:52 AM 10-02-2013
Didn't you used to think that a BIC F12 was enough? biggrin.gif
jpmst3's Avatar jpmst3 10:52 AM 10-02-2013
I would avoid the clones as well. They are awesome when they work and chances are you will have no problems. But, if you do you may end up wishing that you never tried one, times 10.

I also would add more drivers before I pushed these to their limits. I may be in the minority, but I believe in designing a system where no component is at or near its limits.

I have dual LMS as well. I don't push them anywhere near the ~ 33mm xmax.

I would also consider the UXL 18 which would allow you to get 4 drivers for roughly the price of two LMSs and still get much more bang for the buck. I do love my LMSs, but they are nearing $1000 a piece!eek.gif
If i were to do it again, I might go the UXL route and put the money towards other components.

Check the data-bass site...
LTD02's Avatar LTD02 11:14 AM 10-02-2013
...and or build some LOWARHORNS!

(which for some reason must always be capitalized, bolded, and followed by a bang)
jpmst3's Avatar jpmst3 11:18 AM 10-02-2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by LTD02 View Post

...and or build some LOWARHORNS!

(which for some reason must always be capitalized, bolded, and followed by a bang)


biggrin.gif Exactly!
antisuck's Avatar antisuck 11:55 AM 10-02-2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by LTD02 View Post

...and or build some





















(ominous pause)


















[James Earl Jones voice]

[viking font]

[bold]
[italic]

LOWARHORNS!

[/italic]
[/bold]
[/viking font]

[/James Earl Jones]

(thunder and lightning)

(reverb)

(fade to black)

fixed that for you cool.gif
kcnitro07's Avatar kcnitro07 12:04 PM 10-02-2013
I was looking at the UXL, which had less (granted not much) in the lower frequencies and more in the upper. I'm not after more in the upper, I'm after more in the lower, plus I like the low low low distortion numbers of the LMS. Yes its more expensive by about $300, but might be worth it. PPPLLLUUUSSS I'm buying boxes designed for the LMS...thus...makes sense to get the LMS.



And DD....I'm still convinced the BIC would have WON that meet if you hadn't NEUTERED it! :P
desertdome's Avatar desertdome 12:07 PM 10-02-2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by antisuck View Post

fixed that for you cool.gif

I was just watching The Hunt For Red October during lunch and heard James Earl Jones about 1 minute before reading your post. eek.gif
kcnitro07's Avatar kcnitro07 12:20 PM 10-02-2013
I sent an email to behringer's support folks asking if they had an update on when the NU12000 would be released. I've only used an NU3000DSP in the past and it seemed fine. I think that would be the best bet UNLESS of course....it doesn't get realeased for yet another forever....
desertdome's Avatar desertdome 12:28 PM 10-02-2013
I just heard that Tom Clancy died last night. I've owned the movie for a long time, but have never seen it. It was still in its wrapper.
Quote:
And DD....I'm still convince the BIC would have WON that meet if you hadn't NEUTERED it! :P
Neutering usually makes animals grow bigger. I thought it might do the same to your sub system. Looks like it worked: biggrin.gif

1 BIC F12
1 BIC F12 & 2 BIC V1220's
2 Dayton Titanic MKIII sealed subs
2 Dayton Titanic MKIII sealed subs and 2 LMS Ultra 5400 sealed subs
kcnitro07's Avatar kcnitro07 12:39 PM 10-02-2013
TOUCHE!

Some one build me two invisible 12 ft/3 ported boxes.
kcnitro07's Avatar kcnitro07 02:22 PM 10-02-2013
Here is the response I got from Behringer. A little disappointing frown.gif

Dear Nelson Williams,

Thank you for your email regarding the NU12000.

At this time we do not yet have a specific release date, though this product is currently slated for release within the first quarter of 2014.

Kind regards,

WELCH Jeff
Junior Administrator, Care
MUSIC Group Services NV Inc.
Tel:+1 702 800 8290 ext 1105
Email: careamer@music-group.com
Web: www.music-group.com | www.midasconsoles.com | www.klarkteknik.com | www.turbosound.com | www.behringer.com | www.bugera-amps.com
-
jpmst3's Avatar jpmst3 03:01 PM 10-02-2013
I am not sure I totally agree with your lack of low end of the UXL when compared with the LMS. You are talking a single db or less from 10-80 Hz.
The UXL hangs right with the LMS. Yes, the LMS is arguably the best driver available regardless of the price and has incredibly low THD numbers.
But, also remember that typically 4 drivers working half as hard as two will yield less THD than two.
Again, design the system so that everything is well within the limits and it is a non-issue. I wouldn't drive my amps to clipping levels, nor would I approach xmax on my drivers.

Either way, the LMS is the mac daddy for sure...but they are $400 more.

But, yes, I would not count on Behringer to release a new product on any timetable. Go with something readily available. Also, once again, two lesser amps give you a backup if one fails. You won't be at full capacity but you will still have woofage.
LTD02's Avatar LTD02 03:10 PM 10-02-2013
"fixed that for you..."

good catch!
LTD02's Avatar LTD02 03:24 PM 10-02-2013
"Some one build me two invisible 12 ft/3 ported boxes."

with a little creativity, you may be able to disguise them.

take a look at this and tell me where the subs are. :-)

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1404092/wanted-big-bass-big-room-open-to-an-even-bigger-room-with-lots-of-windows/90#post_22547000
kcnitro07's Avatar kcnitro07 03:53 PM 10-02-2013
That is nice LTD, but my room is not big enough for that lol...I think I"m at like 12 x 16 or something like that...
LTD02's Avatar LTD02 04:00 PM 10-02-2013
well, what are you doing with the back two corners of your room? in say a 2' x 2' square footprint? hehehe...
desertdome's Avatar desertdome 04:06 PM 10-02-2013
Do you have an attic, basement, or crawlspace adjacent to your room? My dual infinite baffle manifolds took one sheet of plywood and was easier than your sealed subs build. The total driver cost for 8 drivers was $1000, but that has gone up. It only takes 100 watts per driver for me to reach maximum excursion at 20 Hz.
kcnitro07's Avatar kcnitro07 04:06 PM 10-02-2013
Maybe in the future after I get my basement finished, the never ending project....as of right now my living room has a door in one corner, that goes outside...kinda the main entrance to the house, the other corner is the door way to the hallway and the door way to the kitchen...I'm screwed!
Archaea's Avatar Archaea 04:16 PM 10-02-2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by desertdome View Post

I just heard that Tom Clancy died last night. I've owned the movie for a long time, but have never seen it. It was still in its wrapper.
Quote:
And DD....I'm still convince the BIC would have WON that meet if you hadn't NEUTERED it! :P
Neutering usually makes animals grow bigger. I thought it might do the same to your sub system. Looks like it worked: biggrin.gif

1 BIC F12
1 BIC F12 & 2 BIC V1220's
2 Dayton Titanic MKIII sealed subs
2 Dayton Titanic MKIII sealed subs and 2 LMS Ultra 5400 sealed subs

DD you make me laugh! Good memory - fun jab!

What will the future hold after the dual LMS-5400? This is soooooo typical isn't it! The more quality bass you have the more quality bass you want.
BassThatHz's Avatar BassThatHz 07:04 PM 10-02-2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by Archaea View Post

What will the future hold after the dual LMS-5400? This is soooooo typical isn't it! The more quality bass you have the more quality bass you want.

My current goal is to out-do TheEar, simply because I have no other lofty goal to aim for at this point. Other than maybe... a full-hair-trick in a house. LOL biggrin.gif
One day I will have more woofery-woofer things than he does, until then I will keep adding more. I will soon have 31 woofery-woofer things, so I hope he is secretly lurking and keeping up with the program. biggrin.gif







That said, I almost vomited the first time I played my system at full volume... I wonder why that might be? biggrin.gif
LTD02's Avatar LTD02 09:56 AM 10-03-2013
since you are all modular, the midbass bins could go into some corner horns in order to kick their efficiency up significantly.
FOH's Avatar FOH 10:55 AM 10-03-2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by kcnitro07 View Post

What are your guys thoughs on what the best amp/combo would be for powering dual LMS 5400 and keeping the 15s.

Since you're in an amplifier quandary, how about examining this from a different perspective? Approach this from the other side. What about lessening the amplifier needed and employ a single, dual-opposed, push-pull, manifold IB? You retain the state of the art low distortion profile of the LMS drives. However you lower it further by the push-pull implementation, and dramatically lower power requirements with the IB alignment. If one pursued an IB (or OB), the push-pull is optional and may affect the linear LMS less so than other .. lesser designs.

I realize there's commonly used and well vetted best practices with the LMS 5400 Ultras, wrt box size and wattage. But what is the free air power handling of the driver, as if it were employed in an OB or IB? An OB or H frame type set up would be interesting, but I've no experience in that regard, but something to be mindful of. I know the motor of the LMS is ideal for the small enclosure, but wth, just throwing things out there.


Good luck
BassThatHz's Avatar BassThatHz 03:14 PM 10-03-2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by FOH View Post

But what is the free air power handling of the driver, as if it were employed in an OB or IB?

Low enough that you'd be able able to cook two Ultra's with one nu3k before clipping it.
Which would save big $ on the amp.
kcnitro07's Avatar kcnitro07 03:50 PM 10-03-2013
so what you're saying is I could do what? Are you talking dual opposed boxes or like IB in my floor? or??
Tags: Tc Sounds Lms Ultra 5400
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