Possibe to DIY something similar to a SVS SB12-NSD or SB-1000 - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 27 Old 10-04-2013, 10:44 AM - Thread Starter
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I am toying with the idea of trying my hand at a DIY sub (or maybe two for a dual setup)

If I were purchasing I would be looking the SVS SB12-NSD or SB-1000 SVS offerings. I am specifically drawn to the small 13" or 14" cubes as I have limited space. I like the idea of sealed as that is supposed to be better for music.

I am currently using an old Kenwood 10" with a 150w amp, and I am underwhelmed most of the time.

I don't care about shaking the house to death or how low I can get it to go. I just want a good quality sub experience for my home theater and music.

So If I wanted to try and do a DIY build is there a decent 12" driver I can get from parts express that would work well crammed into a cube this size?

I'm a total noob at this side of things.

Thanks

Steve
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post #2 of 27 Old 10-04-2013, 11:05 AM
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Too easy, creativesoundsolution has a few kits that are really good.
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post #3 of 27 Old 10-04-2013, 12:36 PM
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http://www.creativesound.ca/ much better driver. The driver alone weighs as much, more, or close to the two options you're asking about.

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post #4 of 27 Old 10-04-2013, 12:43 PM
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"I like the idea of sealed as that is supposed to be better for music."

myth!
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post #5 of 27 Old 10-04-2013, 12:47 PM
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you have in your avatar a man sitting in front of a speaker blowing out 135db of bass. :-)

you are asking about a 12" driver in a 13" cube. :-(

In probability theory, events E1, E2, ..., En are said to be mutually exclusive if the occurrence of any one of them automatically implies the non-occurrence of the remaining n − 1 events. Therefore, two mutually exclusive events cannot both occur. Formally said, the intersection of each two of them is empty (the null event): A and B = ∅. In consequence, mutually exclusive events have the property: P(A and B) = 0.

:-)~

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post #6 of 27 Old 10-04-2013, 12:57 PM
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you are asking about a 12" driver in a 13" cube. :-(

LOL.. That's why I thought we better bring the SDX in rolleyes.gifbiggrin.gif

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post #7 of 27 Old 10-04-2013, 12:58 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LTD02 View Post

you have in your avatar a man sitting in front of a speaker blowing out 135db of bass. :-)

you are asking about a 12" driver in a 13" cube. :-(

:-)~

Well, what I'd like to have happen and what the wife will approve are always two different things.

I was looking at CSS but kept stumbling across comments regarding the sdx drivers not being a great choice for a small sealed enclosure. Another myth?

Thanks for the replies.
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post #8 of 27 Old 10-04-2013, 01:06 PM
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"Well, what I'd like to have happen and what the wife will approve are always two different things."

mutually exclusive set on multiple dimensions!

the sdx driver, while expensive, employs xbl^2 technology which makes it a very linear driver.

i'd have to double check the current version as i'm not sure if specs have changed, but the one in my record shows very nice performance in a small cabinet with passive radiators as was suggested above.

the main benefit of passive radiators is that you get a lot more low end spl, but without having to build a giant port and to tune a small box to a low frequency would require a giant port.

the tradeoff is cost. passive radiators add to the cost, but everything has a tradeoff.

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post #9 of 27 Old 10-04-2013, 01:15 PM
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with passive radiators, a subwoofer that will play to 20hz is possible.

css happens to show just this. their box is slightly larger, so yours would have a little higher tuning point, but you can get a good idea of the performance here:

http://creativesound.ca/pdf/Q12XA.pdf

the black line is the sum of the red (pr's) and the blue (driver) outputs.

a sealed sub would rolloff much like the blue line but without that dip, so you can see the pr's add quite a bit of low end spl.
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post #10 of 27 Old 10-04-2013, 01:20 PM
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I was looking at CSS but kept stumbling across comments regarding the sdx drivers not being a great choice for a small sealed enclosure.

From my understanding it's the vented enclosure the SDX has a hard time with due to the ports/vent have to be so long hence sealed or PR.

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post #11 of 27 Old 10-04-2013, 06:41 PM - Thread Starter
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For the sake of argument, what if I didn't use the PR's?

Thanks again for the replies.
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post #12 of 27 Old 10-04-2013, 07:06 PM
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^^ the smaller the cabinet, the longer the port has to be to tune it low. there comes a point where it is no longer practical.

for example,

to tune a **4** cubic foot cabinet to 20hz with a 4" diameter port, it would have to be 18 inches long.

to tune a **2** cubic foot cabinet to 20hz with a 4" diameter port, it would have to be 39 inches long.

to tune a **1** cubic foot cabinet to 20hz with a 4" diameter port, it would have to be 81 inches long.

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post #13 of 27 Old 10-04-2013, 07:06 PM
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and if you just went sealed, you'd lose about 8-10db of spl around the tuning frequency, which is quite a bit.

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post #14 of 27 Old 10-04-2013, 07:12 PM
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"So If I wanted to try and do a DIY build is there a decent 12" driver I can get from parts express that would work well crammed into a cube this size?"

http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?partnumber=293-650

http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?partnumber=300-752

http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?partnumber=300-7077&utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=pla

(double check the driver cutout to make sure it fits)

so, that's $500 and you'd have to finish it. makes the svs look like a bargain, huh?

edit: doesn't look like the epic fits the knockdown cutout.
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post #15 of 27 Old 10-04-2013, 07:22 PM
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Build a Marty sub and buy the wife a diamond necklace ! biggrin.gif
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post #16 of 27 Old 10-04-2013, 07:50 PM - Thread Starter
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Thanks for the links LTD. Well, I can save a few bucks. I'll build the box myself.



What's a Marty sub?
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post #17 of 27 Old 10-04-2013, 08:28 PM
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"What's a Marty sub?"

MARTY SUB!

a little larger than what you have in mind. :-)




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post #18 of 27 Old 10-05-2013, 01:06 AM
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Agree with the above posters above. For the grand the svs would cost you just build a Marty and get her a some jewelry. The difference is unbelievable. A Mary can tear apart the sb12 like its nothing hell it can beat a PAIR of them (I had two of them)

Even better build a pair of Marty's ...skip the jewlrey and the vibrations will keep her happy wink.gif
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post #19 of 27 Old 10-05-2013, 05:09 AM
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this is what some folks are referring to. the top line is the marty sub with the stereo integrity driver. the next line down is the 12" svs ported sub. the bottom line is the sealed version of the 12" svs sub.

this is about what each can do at full tilt. each can be eq'd for any response, but when they hit these numbers, that's about it, roughly. each time that you double the number of subs, you get +6db, so the marty with its ~18db advantage over sealed would require about 3 doublings or EIGHT sealed 12" subs for the same spl down around 20hz.

everybody has different constraints. finding the system that is best for you isn't always about the biggest and the loudest, but just be aware that folks don't build big subs for no reason. :-)~


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post #20 of 27 Old 10-05-2013, 07:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LTD02 View Post

this is what some folks are referring to. the top line is the marty sub with the stereo integrity driver. the next line down is the 12" svs ported sub. the bottom line is the sealed version of the 12" svs sub.

this is about what each can do at full tilt. each can be eq'd for any response, but when they hit these numbers, that's about it, roughly. each time that you double the number of subs, you get +6db, so the marty with its ~18db advantage over sealed would require about 3 doublings or EIGHT sealed 12" subs for the same spl down around 20hz.

everybody has different constraints. finding the system that is best for you isn't always about the biggest and the loudest, but just be aware that folks don't build big subs for no reason. :-)~


He LTD is the middle line the PB12-NSD then?..

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post #21 of 27 Old 10-05-2013, 09:02 AM
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yes. more or less. driver is similar if not the actual same driver and power is my guess, but it could be a little off on the top end if the svs has a little bigger amp. I think I used 500 watts for that guesstiplotimation.

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post #22 of 27 Old 10-05-2013, 10:13 AM
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Originally Posted by LTD02 View Post

yes. more or less. driver is similar if not the actual same driver and power is my guess, but it could be a little off on the top end if the svs has a little bigger amp. I think I used 500 watts for that guesstiplotimation.

Thanks! Knowing the PB12-PLUS has 4-5dB/75% more output than the PB12-NSD are we looking at the Plus coming in at within a couple dB of the 18" SI then? I’m just trying to wrap my head around this is all. Over at Data the PB12-NSD is showing much lower, am I missing something here? http://www.data-bass.com/data?page=system&id=66&mset=71 I guess my next question would be how do you think the SPA1000 12” SDX dual PR would compare to the SVS PB12-NSD? http://creativesound.ca/pdf/Q12XD.pdf Are different formulas being used possibly? I definitely see there is some line of thought I’m missing in my comparing. I really appreciate your time.

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post #23 of 27 Old 10-05-2013, 12:04 PM
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+6db to data-bass measurements for compare to winisd.

and max burst may have some extra db in it. so not always exact. just kind of close.

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post #24 of 27 Old 10-05-2013, 04:57 PM - Thread Starter
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How do you come up with these charts and measurements? I'd love to see what my current sub measures so I can compare to potential new subs.
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post #25 of 27 Old 10-05-2013, 06:34 PM
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these are simply models using thiele small parameters for the drivers, plopping them into cabinets of various designs, running them at various power levels and keeping a rough sense for how it all translates into real performance. any box modeling software can be used. i happen to use winisd. it is easy to use and free.

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post #26 of 27 Old 10-07-2013, 12:59 AM
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Not to nit-pick, but the NSD is 400 watts. That’s another .75dB discrepancy favoring the LLT. eek.gifbiggrin.gif

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post #27 of 27 Old 10-07-2013, 06:46 AM
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good point. :-)

btw, 10* log(400/500) = -0.97 db.

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