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post #1 of 21 Old 10-06-2013, 06:37 AM - Thread Starter
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Would this box would work:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/231049543045?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649


looking at the box a little more and comparing it to the JBL 4645C we are talking a difference of appx 1cuft and a the JBL is tuned at 25hz where this generic box is tuned at 32hz. The JBL is made of 3/4" MDF and this box is made of 1" MDF so here is my question,

two 4645C's will cost me about 2200.00 and buying two used 2242H's will run me 600.00 plus 260 for the boxes. Will doing it the less expensive way be a huge dropoff in sound quality or might I be on to something here??

I am using 4 SI-18's for low end bass, and I want the JBL 2242 for 20HZ and above doing what they do best.

Could I modify the tuning port if I had to?

Another option of course is to duplicate the jbl cabinets and simply drop in the used 2242's but I'm trying to cut costs/labor if possible.


Advice anyone?

Have a Happy and safe New Year!!!
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post #2 of 21 Old 10-06-2013, 07:13 AM
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That box isn't build very good and will likely fall apart. There's no bracing inside. 3/4" braced is a lot better than 1" unbraced.

It's a shame you live far away because I have 3 of those 18's I'm going to be getting rid of from the big JBL group buy, and one of them is still installed in the original cabinet. I think I threw away about 15 of those big subwoofer cabinets a couple years ago after I removed the woofer!
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post #3 of 21 Old 10-06-2013, 08:32 AM - Thread Starter
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UGH, your killing me! Threw away...ugh!! Its hurts...lol. Wow, what was that group buy all about? PM me if you think about selling and shipping them.

Yeah I saw the bracing and figured I could put some more bracing inside with a 17" hole I'm sure I could beef the inside up some and may glue some triangle stock in the corners..either way I know I could beef the inside up with more bracing but my concern has more to do with the volume/tuning port being a match for the 2242 driver. I would remove all that ugly carpet and possibly add a doubler baffle to the front. I just don't see any flat packs that are big enough plus the shipping on them is almost as much as the wood. A built cabinet to me justifies the shipping but this one is shipped free which is even more attractive...if it would work with the driver of course.

I just ordered a router jig and searching local craigslist for a router to start building my boxes for my SI-18 subs but if I could save big bucks getting the 2242 into my system all the better cuz I just spent a ton on my amps and speakers and I feel so guilty throwing more cash at JBL 4645 subs but I have to have that snappy JBL bass in my system, lol....ugh the things we want...if only life were more simpler biggrin.gif

Thanks for the reply Erich

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post #4 of 21 Old 10-06-2013, 08:49 AM
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The JBL's are not that great down to 20hz , That plan would be a complete waste of the SI's. Even in their own boxes they are -10dB dwon from 70hz.... thats a ton!
I'd personally cross over the SI's at 40 hz and let the JBL's take it from there if thats your plan. I had 2 x 4645's to try out in my system, they were awesome but they sucked near 20hz unless you EQ the crap out of them. I've since built small 2cf boxes for my 2242's and cross them over at 60hz before the drop off. You gotta remember the 2242's are not meant for lower octaves, your SI's are.

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post #5 of 21 Old 10-06-2013, 10:35 AM
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might also take a look at the 18sounds 18lw2400. I've never seen a direct compare between them and the jbl, but it would be close and i'm not sure which would actually come out ahead.

a dual driver 7 cubic footer (3.5 cf each driver) tuned to 45hz and crossed to the si's at 50hz would be just about perfect. 4000-5000 watts power and let 'em rip!

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post #6 of 21 Old 10-06-2013, 10:52 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by N8DOGG View Post

The JBL's are not that great down to 20hz , That plan would be a complete waste of the SI's. Even in their own boxes they are -10dB dwon from 70hz.... thats a ton!
I'd personally cross over the SI's at 40 hz and let the JBL's take it from there if thats your plan. I had 2 x 4645's to try out in my system, they were awesome but they sucked near 20hz unless you EQ the crap out of them. I've since built small 2cf boxes for my 2242's and cross them over at 60hz before the drop off. You gotta remember the 2242's are not meant for lower octaves, your SI's are.


I guess I should not throw out generic comments but your correct...I was planning on 80hz but it will all be figured out exactly once I get everything together and start the setup. I like your idea of 40hz and no way do I want to eq the JBL's to try and strengthen a weakness where I would rather allow them to do what they do best "naturally". You also made me realize and correct me if I'm wrong but if I crossed the JBL's over at 40hz, then the tuning is not a factor on those generic cabinets right?

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post #7 of 21 Old 10-06-2013, 11:02 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LTD02 View Post

might also take a look at the 18sounds 18lw2400. I've never seen a direct compare between them and the jbl, but it would be close and i'm not sure which would actually come out ahead.

a dual driver 7 cubic footer (3.5 cf each driver) tuned to 45hz and crossed to the si's at 50hz would be just about perfect. 4000-5000 watts power and let 'em rip!

Great another speaker option..lol. I never knew that one existed but it looks like the JBL. It seems like you guys have the perfect picture of what I'm trying to accomplish! smile.gif

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post #8 of 21 Old 10-06-2013, 11:04 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by N8DOGG View Post

The JBL's are not that great down to 20hz , That plan would be a complete waste of the SI's. Even in their own boxes they are -10dB dwon from 70hz.... thats a ton!
I'd personally cross over the SI's at 40 hz and let the JBL's take it from there if thats your plan. I had 2 x 4645's to try out in my system, they were awesome but they sucked near 20hz unless you EQ the crap out of them. I've since built small 2cf boxes for my 2242's and cross them over at 60hz before the drop off. You gotta remember the 2242's are not meant for lower octaves, your SI's are.

2cuft? wow, and they still have the snap? Are they in sealed or ported?

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post #9 of 21 Old 10-06-2013, 11:17 AM
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what mains are you running btw?

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post #10 of 21 Old 10-06-2013, 11:43 AM
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just to summarize...here are the 2242H and the 18LW2400

normalized inductance (le/re) is 0.27 for both drivers.

2242 has copper ring *in* the gap

2400 has 3 rings, not sure of specific positions

top plot is 2242. impedance is tough to see. log scale. 3.1, 10, 31, 100 ohm markers. impedance swings up over 100 ohms by 20khz.

bottom plot is 2400. impedance swings up to only 75 ohms by 20khz and the curve appears more linear, suggesting better inductance control.

sensitivity on the jbl is about a db higher in exchange for slightly beefier coil and higher power handling on the 2400.

both have similar upper end resonance and rolloff.

tough to ding the 2242, as I've never heard a single person mention that they were unhappy with its performance in its target range.

that said, new, the 2242 is about 2.5x the cost of the 2400 and 18sounds is a solid company.

they are soooo close it would be tough to say which would come out on top, if either, in a very controlled listening test...so i suppose that is what it would have to come down to. on paper, the 2400 appears to me to be the slightly better driver. eek.gifeek.gifeek.gifeek.gifeek.gif and i can't believe that i just wrote that. eek.gifeek.gifeek.gifeek.gifeek.gif


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post #11 of 21 Old 10-06-2013, 03:34 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LTD02 View Post

what mains are you running btw?


JBL 3722N...just got em in last week, have not hooked them up yet.

Thank you for the time you took to chart the difference between the two speakers, I appreciate that!!

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post #12 of 21 Old 10-06-2013, 03:49 PM
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SOUNDS....
.
. .....OF........
.
. ..... CHEERING!

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post #13 of 21 Old 10-06-2013, 03:53 PM
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Originally Posted by 316 View Post

2cuft? wow, and they still have the snap? Are they in sealed or ported?

Oh hell ya, they don't give up a ton vs the ported boxes until around 60hz, which is why I crossed them over there. I also only wanted them as mid bass modules and not true subs, they were designed for exactly what they are doing and doing a mighty fine job I might add. I also wanted them sealed since my Noesis are sitting right on top. You can see them in my sig pic.

Blasting brown notes for 10 years and counting!

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post #14 of 21 Old 10-06-2013, 03:54 PM
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you might experiment with a 60hz crossover point and see if that is "good enough" before trying to stick some 18" in the middle of it all...just say'n.

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post #15 of 21 Old 10-06-2013, 05:08 PM
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How do you plan on implementing these JBL-2242's or 18LW2400's? Actively crossed over to your mains? MiniDsp? What will you be powering these with? What is your AVR?
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post #16 of 21 Old 10-06-2013, 07:27 PM - Thread Starter
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Umc-200 no amp yet for the 2242 and I have not yet decided how to tie it all together yet.....basically I'm still gathering components and want to have everything figured out before I start the HT.

Was thinking something with dsp built in like I nuke or crown.

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post #17 of 21 Old 10-06-2013, 08:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by N8DOGG View Post

Oh hell ya, they don't give up a ton vs the ported boxes until around 60hz, which is why I crossed them over there. I also only wanted them as mid bass modules and not true subs, they were designed for exactly what they are doing and doing a mighty fine job I might add. I also wanted them sealed since my Noesis are sitting right on top. You can see them in my sig pic.

I might do exactly this... smile.gif
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post #18 of 21 Old 10-06-2013, 08:30 PM
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iirc, the crown "dsp" isn't so great in the xls. just be sure it does what you need before taking the plunge. the inuke dsp is really good. mini dsp is also something lots of folks use as an external dsp.

one of the more interesting solutions is jriver. you can do all the processing on the computer. output the signal over usb to an external dac and then straight to the amps.

behringer just released an external dac that appears to be quite nice. firepower or something it is called.

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post #19 of 21 Old 10-06-2013, 10:30 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by LTD02 View Post

iirc, the crown "dsp" isn't so great in the xls. just be sure it does what you need before taking the plunge. the inuke dsp is really good. mini dsp is also something lots of folks use as an external dsp.

one of the more interesting solutions is jriver. you can do all the processing on the computer. output the signal over usb to an external dac and then straight to the amps.

behringer just released an external dac that appears to be quite nice. firepower or something it is called.

Inuke with dsp so then I would have to use the mini for the SI's and I nuke for 2242 so I can cross over each set differently or use the mini as a 4 way and split the input? Minin seems so complicated compared to the Inuke and XTI (what about DSP in XTI?)...I'll look up the jriver... thanks!! BTW, these amps with no iron just seem fishy to me smile.gif

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post #20 of 21 Old 10-07-2013, 09:27 AM - Thread Starter
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So if I go with the Inukes running the 2242 or 18sound, and the EP4000 running my SI-18's then I can go with the mini and run 1 channel to the EP4000 and split the input to the EP4000 and the other channel from the mini to the Inukes running the 18sounds or 2242 again using a splitter to each amp and then use the mini to cross over each channel to whatever I decide? Is that the way I do it?

Or...

LFE from Emotiva to splitter, one channel splitting off again to feed the two Inukes with DSP, the other half of splitter feeding the EP4000 feeding the SI-18's but then I would not have control over crossover point on EP4000

Or...

LFE from Emotiva with a splitter to a splitter to make a total of four inputs to the 4 Inukes with DSP then use the DSP as needed? (return my new in box EP4000 exchange for Inuke with DSP)

Or...

A better way, simpler way?


I Will choose between 18sounds and 2242, I like the idea of 18sounds handling more power. I also like the Inuke because its easier to use the DSP over the mini.

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post #21 of 21 Old 10-07-2013, 11:12 AM
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the power handling is a moot point. the amps you are talking about can only do so much. BTW Im running a inuke 6000 with my 2242s and they will take what it can dish out. the dsp is great on them as well.

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