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post #1 of 16 Old 10-06-2013, 08:26 PM - Thread Starter
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Anyone here knows anyone who might be able to make a good crossover for me if I am able to source some drivers locally?

I am thinking of creating a speaker like the 4Pi, but using either the 18Sounds 9600 or the 2242H from JBL coupled with the DE250 compression driver. Or, could I just use the 4pi crossover and replace the woofer in that design with the 18 inchers? I basically want a system with tons of clean midbass and still sounds great with the compression driver...
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post #2 of 16 Old 10-06-2013, 08:32 PM
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Have you seen these kits?

http://www.diysoundgroup.com/waveguide-speaker-kits.html

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post #3 of 16 Old 10-06-2013, 08:34 PM
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are you not happy with the noesis?

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post #4 of 16 Old 10-06-2013, 08:51 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mrkazador View Post

Have you seen these kits?
http://www.diysoundgroup.com/waveguide-speaker-kits.html

I tried to order some kits but Erich said it might be prohibitively expensive to ship the drivers to my country.

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are you not happy with the noesis?

The Noesis totally exceeded my expectations by a mile...

And that's WHY I wanted to start building my own speakers. I want to start a hobby basically... exploring different drivers... Since I am a mid bass head, I feel like I need to add more midbass to my system (if that makes any sense at all considering the Noesis have tons already compared to my old Wharfedales)...

The idea is to build a speaker with 18 inch woofers that sounds as good as the Noesis but with the extra mid bass slap...

I liked the 4pi idea.. but expand that to a phenomenal 18 inch woofer like the 2242H, and you might have the ultimate system.... the only problem? How to build the crossover?? Is it possible to use the one in the 4pi but switch out the 15 inch woofer for the 18?
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post #5 of 16 Old 10-06-2013, 09:13 PM
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the best solution would be to do essentially what nate did and run a passive crossover on the mid/top box...noesis, 4pi, whatever you want to use...but then actively cross that enclosure to a mid-bass monster, such as a pair of 18's if you want to get insanely stupid...and then cross those to whatever subs you've got.

this is what bass pig does. check out his site, if you haven't seen it!

http://www.basspig.com/

behind the screen is 6 x 18" electrovoice 180b's for the mid bass (old competition for the 2242 btw).

the four outermost subs are bassmaxx/tcsounds subwoofers.


Listen. It's All Good.
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post #6 of 16 Old 10-06-2013, 09:35 PM
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How to actively crossover? Is it using something like these?

http://www.parts-express.com/cat/active-crossovers/581
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post #7 of 16 Old 10-06-2013, 11:45 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LTD02 View Post

the best solution would be to do essentially what nate did and run a passive crossover on the mid/top box...noesis, 4pi, whatever you want to use...but then actively cross that enclosure to a mid-bass monster, such as a pair of 18's if you want to get insanely stupid...and then cross those to whatever subs you've got.

this is what bass pig does. check out his site, if you haven't seen it!

http://www.basspig.com/

behind the screen is 6 x 18" electrovoice 180b's for the mid bass (old competition for the 2242 btw).

the four outermost subs are bassmaxx/tcsounds subwoofers.


Yup, this is eventually what my HT would look like as I add more midbass/subs and using the Noesis as the 'Highs'...

But I also want to start playing with making speakers... thus, needing a crossover designer...

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Originally Posted by WereWolf84 View Post

How to actively crossover? Is it using something like these?

http://www.parts-express.com/cat/active-crossovers/581


I think so... also, the MiniDSP that everyone's talking about.
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post #8 of 16 Old 10-06-2013, 11:48 PM - Thread Starter
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What do you guys think of this: 18Sounds' newest 18 inch, the 18TLW3000... silky smooth curves from 60-130hz, perfect for my midbass design

http://www.eighteensound.com/index.aspx?mainMenu=view_product_simple&pid=324
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post #9 of 16 Old 10-07-2013, 01:49 AM
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To be able to design a proper cross over a person needs to measure the drivers first. So you would have to ship the drivers to the person.
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post #10 of 16 Old 10-07-2013, 02:16 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Manic1! View Post

To be able to design a proper cross over a person needs to measure the drivers first. So you would have to ship the drivers to the person.

But what if they are 'known' drivers like BMS compression drivers, of B&C, and woofers from 18Sounds? They are known and have curves/specs
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post #11 of 16 Old 10-07-2013, 05:55 AM
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"How to actively crossover? Is it using something like these?"

yes. active crossover adjusts the electronic signal before it gets amplified. it is typically done with the kinds of tools that you linked to or as was mentioned by cg, the minidsp. some amplifiers have dsp built in.

"But I also want to start playing with making speakers... thus, needing a crossover designer..."

gotcha. before jumping in, you may wish to read up a bit on crossover design. you mention crossing the 2242's to the compression driver on the 4pi. that would be tough for at least two reasons. the woofer would be "beaming" quite a bit up near the crossover point and it also has quite a bit of resonance at the crossover point. most folks would say those would be deal killers and would look to do something different, such as perhaps substituting the 18's in for the 12's in the noesis or crossing them in underneath them.

there are some helpful documents at the bottom of this page: http://www.pispeakers.com/contents.html

for an overview of the topics will crop up as you design your system, the jbl sound system technical manual is not too bad: http://www.jblpro.com/pub/manuals/pssdm_1.pdf

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post #12 of 16 Old 10-07-2013, 07:13 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LTD02 View Post

"How to actively crossover? Is it using something like these?"

yes. active crossover adjusts the electronic signal before it gets amplified. it is typically done with the kinds of tools that you linked to or as was mentioned by cg, the minidsp. some amplifiers have dsp built in.

"But I also want to start playing with making speakers... thus, needing a crossover designer..."

gotcha. before jumping in, you may wish to read up a bit on crossover design. you mention crossing the 2242's to the compression driver on the 4pi. that would be tough for at least two reasons. the woofer would be "beaming" quite a bit up near the crossover point and it also has quite a bit of resonance at the crossover point. most folks would say those would be deal killers and would look to do something different, such as perhaps substituting the 18's in for the 12's in the noesis or crossing them in underneath them.

there are some helpful documents at the bottom of this page: http://www.pispeakers.com/contents.html

for an overview of the topics will crop up as you design your system, the jbl sound system technical manual is not too bad: http://www.jblpro.com/pub/manuals/pssdm_1.pdf

LT, thanks... you seem to know a lot about speaker designs...

Ok, how about using the Noesis design, but like you said substituting with dual 18s, and a larger horn? (same compression driver).

BTW: I still don't understand a lot of the technical 'jargon's used in sound systems... but i'll get there eventually...
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post #13 of 16 Old 10-07-2013, 07:58 AM
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"Ok, how about using the Noesis design, but like you said substituting with dual 18s, and a larger horn? (same compression driver)."

the coaxial driver in the noesis can be crossed at 450hz and that is low enough for good 18's to integrate with.

it is actually one concept that had been mentioned in chop's big seosr thread. if you get a chance, that whole thread is worth reading. there are many design tips and nuggets that will benefit anybody looking to create absolute monster mains.

another option would be to do something like scott is shooting for and put a quad set of 2226 drivers on the bottom. destroyers his will be...

Listen. It's All Good.
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post #14 of 16 Old 10-07-2013, 07:59 AM
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:-)

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post #15 of 16 Old 10-07-2013, 08:09 AM
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If you want more midbass kick (seems to be a popular thing these days) then how about some eq?

If that's not enough, then I think some bass bins running say 60 to 150hz using a minidsp is a good idea. With some patience and hard work, you could do this on your own.
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post #16 of 16 Old 10-07-2013, 08:33 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LTD02 View Post



:-)

What in the world is that???? A Space Ship? A Lego Set?

I want one...

So, what is used for the two compression drivers up there?

Quote:
Originally Posted by LTD02 View Post

"Ok, how about using the Noesis design, but like you said substituting with dual 18s, and a larger horn? (same compression driver)."

the coaxial driver in the noesis can be crossed at 450hz and that is low enough for good 18's to integrate with.

it is actually one concept that had been mentioned in chop's big seosr thread. if you get a chance, that whole thread is worth reading. there are many design tips and nuggets that will benefit anybody looking to create absolute monster mains.

another option would be to do something like scott is shooting for and put a quad set of 2226 drivers on the bottom. destroyers his will be...

How about a MTM design with the Noesis' compression driver with a couple of 2242s? I think the noesis was crossed at 300hz (Jeff said it on the JTR forum), so i am sure it can be matched.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tuxedocivic View Post

If you want more midbass kick (seems to be a popular thing these days) then how about some eq?

If that's not enough, then I think some bass bins running say 60 to 150hz using a minidsp is a good idea. With some patience and hard work, you could do this on your own.

Yup, precisely the journey I am taking.. N8DOGG has done it with 2 2242s and he said they are great!
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