Help with speaker subwoofer design - Page 4 - AVS Forum
Forum Jump: 
 2Likes
Reply
 
Thread Tools
post #91 of 507 Old 10-17-2013, 07:37 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
LTD02's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 16,841
Mentioned: 24 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 556 Post(s)
Liked: 1165
speakers face a different set of issues, having them close can be a good thing.

Listen. It's All Good.
LTD02 is online now  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #92 of 507 Old 10-17-2013, 08:39 PM - Thread Starter
316
AVS Special Member
 
316's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Modesto, CA
Posts: 1,436
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 24
The white wall is the false wall...have not decided where to place it yet......upper left is the equipment closet which also has a vent through the rough where a wood burning stove used to be. I should be able to use is to vent the heat our of the room.


Have a Happy and safe New Year!!!
316 is offline  
post #93 of 507 Old 10-18-2013, 10:05 PM - Thread Starter
316
AVS Special Member
 
316's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Modesto, CA
Posts: 1,436
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 24
I posted a WTB in the classifieds so if anyone knows who or wants to sell 3 JBL 2242's send me a PM........

Also curious if anyone has heard the 18sounds and can tell me how they compare to the 2242 I would appreciate it!!

LTD02, the 18sounds is a driver more in line with the 2242 than the SI18 correct? If so it will be a hard hitter in the mid bass?

Thanks!!!!!

Have a Happy and safe New Year!!!
316 is offline  
post #94 of 507 Old 10-18-2013, 10:34 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
LTD02's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 16,841
Mentioned: 24 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 556 Post(s)
Liked: 1165
:-)

i already tried to answer that one:

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1493686/4645-clone-or-semi-clone#post_23808245

the 18lw2400 and jbl 2242 are very different drivers than the si 18. different tools. different jobs.

Listen. It's All Good.
LTD02 is online now  
post #95 of 507 Old 10-18-2013, 11:03 PM - Thread Starter
316
AVS Special Member
 
316's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Modesto, CA
Posts: 1,436
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 24
Yes you did,,,,smile.gif on paper.... 18 sounds wins but I'm just really wondering if real life sound is similar....I'm guess I'm looking for reassurance lol.

I can buy new 18sounds for the price of used 2242's and if I buy new 2242's I might as well buy the 4645 and get a cabinet for free.

Have a Happy and safe New Year!!!
316 is offline  
post #96 of 507 Old 10-19-2013, 12:50 AM
AVS Addicted Member
 
LTD02's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 16,841
Mentioned: 24 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 556 Post(s)
Liked: 1165
another thing to consider:

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1489541/large-ported-dayton-ho18s/450#post_23827527

"the 2 [si 18's ported] I have in my room are simply destructive beyond belief in the midbass..." -worm

you will have 8.

your mains are 101db or so sensitive and you will have 6.

i'm just not sure, if, in your case, it makes sense to try to integrate another woofer in between them.

Listen. It's All Good.
LTD02 is online now  
post #97 of 507 Old 10-19-2013, 05:24 AM - Thread Starter
316
AVS Special Member
 
316's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Modesto, CA
Posts: 1,436
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 24
You talking about post 470? Yeah im following that thread and thought that was funny but i took it the wrong way...i thought it was a complaint....smile.gif

Maybe its wise if i hold off for now and see how all this sounds first. For one i can use the crossover features in the emotiva for the bass cannons .... And i have the midbass snap in the 3722 x6 that I was referring to about the Altec Flamingos.....

Okay LTD02, im following your logic...smile.gif Thanks!!!

Have a Happy and safe New Year!!!
316 is offline  
post #98 of 507 Old 10-19-2013, 05:39 AM - Thread Starter
316
AVS Special Member
 
316's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Modesto, CA
Posts: 1,436
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 24
Okay I have a question, lets say a song is playing and at the same time the drummer is hittin the snare drum and the guy on the key board is playing a syhisised note at 20hz or below.....a single woofer is trying to play both sounds at the same time.....does it not require a different type of cone movement to create the two different sounds? If so then won't one lack over the other? Not sure its a good analogy but do you get what im trying to say?

Have a Happy and safe New Year!!!
316 is offline  
post #99 of 507 Old 10-19-2013, 07:55 AM
AVS Addicted Member
 
LTD02's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 16,841
Mentioned: 24 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 556 Post(s)
Liked: 1165
yes. that's correct.

in your case it is a non-issue. if you cross your mains in around 80hz, for example, and play them to 120db playback which won't require more than about 60 watts, cone motion will be about 1.5 mm on the woofers.

so the subwoofers can go crazy and it won't really impact the rest of content.

...and i'm not saying that something like the 2242 type drivers might not have a place or might not perform better than your mains in some ways...

Listen. It's All Good.
LTD02 is online now  
post #100 of 507 Old 10-19-2013, 08:51 AM - Thread Starter
316
AVS Special Member
 
316's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Modesto, CA
Posts: 1,436
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 24
Okay so then I want to limit the low end of the mains so they will not get muddled down with the lower bass and let the SI's take care of bottom...so basically six 15" are taking care of the frequencies that give me that mid bass snappy quick hitting bass and the 2242's would fall into that same range if I am understanding this correctly.

So again, to clarify, the SI's are just taking care of those frequencies that require that massive cone extension to produce deep bottom end bass which is why the two drivers are built differently and each having their own strengths. I think I got that smile.gif

By adding 2242's or 18sounds all I am doing is adding the same bass that the six 15" LCR's are producing and they should be crossed over the same at 80hz or so. So if I did this we are talking six 15" and three 18" midbass woofers and eight 18" low bass woofers. Check.

now then if I really wanted to get crazy I could hang three of the 4509 LF enclosure (LF section of the 3722) from the ceiling and get twelve 15" mid bass drivers. Given that two 15's would produce more than one 18, if I decided that I was not happy then this would produce more than adding three 2242's...."IF" after installing I felt that the upper mid bass was lacking. This puts me back into that 1/4 top and bottom for room modes. (I am probably butchering terminology here but Im sure you have no problem understanding what I mean)

Is my reasoning correct?

(Sorry for beating a dead horse, just want to make sure I understand all this and there is no reason for a minidsp, I think, lol)

Have a Happy and safe New Year!!!
316 is offline  
post #101 of 507 Old 10-19-2013, 09:53 AM - Thread Starter
316
AVS Special Member
 
316's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Modesto, CA
Posts: 1,436
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 24
Years ago I had a pair of Beveridge and accoustat 2+2's....what I liked about the sound was it really filled the room from top to bottom with sound so I see why having everything stacked makes such a difference as its all coming to you from top to bottom. If I ever find a pair of 2+2's im going to snag em up in a heartbeat wink.gif

Have a Happy and safe New Year!!!
316 is offline  
post #102 of 507 Old 10-19-2013, 11:22 AM
AVS Addicted Member
 
LTD02's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 16,841
Mentioned: 24 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 556 Post(s)
Liked: 1165
your description is mostly right because like any system there are all kinds of caveats, if thens, buts, and so forth.

at a high level, that is basically it. 'chop is facing this same dilemma in his seosr mega build. he has dual 15's for this mains and is concerned that it might not be enough destruction. td15m's in his case. iirc the current plan will be to go with the dual 15's and see if that is enough and if for some reason it is not, double up. his system is full active though, so adding in a second set of drivers is easy. with passive mains, we run into one of those "buts".

once you have the subs, fire it all up and see what you think. if you don't know what an 800 horsepower car feels like to drive, no sense in wondering if it will be enough. :-)

Listen. It's All Good.
LTD02 is online now  
post #103 of 507 Old 10-19-2013, 02:02 PM - Thread Starter
316
AVS Special Member
 
316's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Modesto, CA
Posts: 1,436
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 24
Absolutely no idea what an 800 HP car feels like! biggrin.gif Using that analogy it should feel GREAT!!

As alway's...many thanks!!!!!!

Have a Happy and safe New Year!!!
316 is offline  
post #104 of 507 Old 10-19-2013, 05:52 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Martycool007's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 3,692
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 280 Post(s)
Liked: 172
So the question that I have is....how would the 2242's or 18Sound drivers sound in the mid-bass frequency range, compared to some of the 15" subwoofers that could possibly also cover that same range? I would imagine that the 2242's or 18Sound drivers would produce a lot more SPL than the 15" subwoofers, then the difference would be which can do this range and have the best SQ when doing so?
Martycool007 is offline  
post #105 of 507 Old 10-19-2013, 10:10 PM
Senior Member
 
urapnes1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 307
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 43 Post(s)
Liked: 36
Sorry was away on travel this past week and came home with a nasty cold. 316 I have great news regarding the towers. I can squeeze both of them out of 9 sheets of 3/4". This is going 30" wide (actually 31") and will have a 6" X 30" port at the top. The front is doubled up and every thing is a dado joint. No butt or rabbet joints. I designed it this way due to the fact that A) it will make assembly easier, B) also fully captures the wood on three sides at every joint. This means that it will be stronger than a rabbet. In order to to this I am effectively leaving a 1/2" wide strip all the way around the cabinet, but in my opinion, it will make it fool-proof for assembly as everything will simply lock together. In the picture below you will see numerous grooves running down the interior lengths of the cabinet. These are where the bracing will go in. For bracing we will cut 4" wide strips that will lock into the dados at specific points. The effect is that we are creating dowels as opposed to window bracing. Given the sizes of the left-over pieces of wood, this will be the most cost-effective method of bracing these bad boys. I looked at window bracing and it added almost 4 extra sheets of wood to the project and a lot of extra time.

See below and ask questions!!!

LTD02 likes this.
urapnes1 is offline  
post #106 of 507 Old 10-19-2013, 10:23 PM - Thread Starter
316
AVS Special Member
 
316's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Modesto, CA
Posts: 1,436
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 24
Looking real good!!!!wink.gif

Have a Happy and safe New Year!!!
316 is offline  
post #107 of 507 Old 10-19-2013, 10:40 PM
Senior Member
 
urapnes1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 307
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 43 Post(s)
Liked: 36
Here is a shot of the Side Panel with "BASS CANNON"
urapnes1 is offline  
post #108 of 507 Old 10-19-2013, 10:41 PM - Thread Starter
316
AVS Special Member
 
316's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Modesto, CA
Posts: 1,436
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 24
Too cool!!!wink.gifbiggrin.gif

Have a Happy and safe New Year!!!
316 is offline  
post #109 of 507 Old 10-19-2013, 11:39 PM
Advanced Member
 
auburnu008's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Auburn, AL
Posts: 852
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 11 Post(s)
Liked: 27
I can't wait to see these being built!

War Eagle!
auburnu008 is offline  
post #110 of 507 Old 10-19-2013, 11:39 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
LTD02's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 16,841
Mentioned: 24 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 556 Post(s)
Liked: 1165
nice translation joel.

it is looking good from over here. if i am seeing it properly, there are two dadoes for bracing the slot port. good.

it also looks like there are two dadoes running up each panel that will be used for bracing at various points up them. that looks good too.

that unit will be quite large when complete, so thought should also be given to where it will be put together and how it will be moved into position.

Listen. It's All Good.
LTD02 is online now  
post #111 of 507 Old 10-19-2013, 11:52 PM
Senior Member
 
urapnes1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 307
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 43 Post(s)
Liked: 36
Quote:
Originally Posted by LTD02 View Post

nice translation joel.

it is looking good from over here. if i am seeing it properly, there are two dadoes for bracing the slot port. good.

it also looks like there are two dadoes running up each panel that will be used for bracing at various points up them. that looks good too.

that unit will be quite large when complete, so thought should also be given to where it will be put together and how it will be moved into position.

Thanks LTD. In addition to big these will be very heavy, approx 400 pounds each. Also, you are interpreting the drawing correctly. The dados are full length and will allow numerous points for bracing along their lengths. The slot port is double braced from both sides in addition to being captured along its lengths as well..
urapnes1 is offline  
post #112 of 507 Old 10-20-2013, 11:20 AM - Thread Starter
316
AVS Special Member
 
316's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Modesto, CA
Posts: 1,436
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by LTD02 View Post

nice translation joel.

that unit will be quite large when complete, so thought should also be given to where it will be put together and how it will be moved into position.


Changes are being made to the room so I can get them in and out easily. I have to be sure I can get them in and out of house but that's an easy adjustment in layout of room...will post pics later. smile.gif

Have a Happy and safe New Year!!!
316 is offline  
post #113 of 507 Old 10-21-2013, 08:59 AM - Thread Starter
316
AVS Special Member
 
316's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Modesto, CA
Posts: 1,436
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 24
Not exact scale but close.....will probably move the equipment rack closer to door. just playing around with different layouts


Have a Happy and safe New Year!!!
316 is offline  
post #114 of 507 Old 10-21-2013, 05:41 PM
Senior Member
 
urapnes1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 307
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 43 Post(s)
Liked: 36
Hi there...Here is the design for the Clones. Port Dimension still needs to be determined as does driver cutout.

urapnes1 is offline  
post #115 of 507 Old 10-22-2013, 08:39 PM - Thread Starter
316
AVS Special Member
 
316's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Modesto, CA
Posts: 1,436
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 24
I was talking to Chris at Seymour screens and projector zone and I had confirmed that I should be fine with my drivers located where they are and the only vibrations I should get will be from the bass vibrating the wall that the screen is attached to, not the HZ from the driver,,,, although they say typically 80hz is the crossover point but subs will be okay so long as ports are not blasting air against screen like Joel had stated....good news

now the bad news....im probably gonna have to run a stack bcuz I should have at least 5k lumens for my screen size (14' wide 2.35 curved) and no way am I going to get a high powered projector with a low contrast ratio.

Have a Happy and safe New Year!!!
316 is offline  
post #116 of 507 Old 11-01-2013, 06:26 PM
AVS Special Member
 
gpmbc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: AZ
Posts: 2,431
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 81 Post(s)
Liked: 83
I'm just curios what would the distortion look like on 8) SIs in the Cannons vs say a pair of Gjallarhorns?
gpmbc is offline  
post #117 of 507 Old 11-02-2013, 06:44 PM
Senior Member
 
urapnes1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 307
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 43 Post(s)
Liked: 36
Progress on the Bass-cannons!



urapnes1 is offline  
post #118 of 507 Old 11-02-2013, 06:46 PM
Senior Member
 
urapnes1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 307
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 43 Post(s)
Liked: 36

urapnes1 is offline  
post #119 of 507 Old 11-02-2013, 06:49 PM
Senior Member
 
urapnes1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 307
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 43 Post(s)
Liked: 36







LTD02 and Reddig like this.
urapnes1 is offline  
post #120 of 507 Old 11-02-2013, 06:51 PM
Senior Member
 
urapnes1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 307
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 43 Post(s)
Liked: 36
All of this multiplied by 2 of course,

biggrin.gif:D
LTD02 likes this.
urapnes1 is offline  
Reply DIY Speakers and Subs

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off