Help with speaker subwoofer design - Page 7 - AVS Forum
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post #181 of 507 Old 12-03-2013, 04:35 AM - Thread Starter
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Why settle for plain and ordinary right? Lol... Joel did a fantastic job and this is the big brother to LTD02's "Marty sub" smile.gif

Its actually quite interesting how this project developed, LTD02 & Joel really made it come alive. I can't wait to demo the canon shots from the HMS Victory video biggrin.gif

Have a Happy and safe New Year!!!
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post #182 of 507 Old 12-03-2013, 03:15 PM
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Wow...now that makes the old VMPS subs I drooled over when I was in college look small. Go big once, cheaper than constant upgrades. Awesome custom panels. Cant wait to see how yiu like them once they are up and running.

Current Gear: PJ – BenQ PE7700; Receiver - Onkyo TX-SR805; Blu Ray - OppoBDP 103; Turntable - Dual CS-515 w/ Ortofon Super OM10; Amplifiers - OdysseyKhartago, Adcom GFA555, QSC RMX 1850HD; PEQ - Behringer FBD2496 [Near FieldSub], miniDSP 2×4 [Flanking Subs], REW; Speakers - 4 Pi (w/B&C DE250/JBL2226H) × 3 [LCR], Yamaha Crap × 2 [surrounds], Exodus Audio Maelstrom-X18" sealed sub [near field sub], LAB-12 based ported sub tuned to 22 Hz x2 [flanking subs, XO set at 40 Hz]
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post #183 of 507 Old 12-03-2013, 05:00 PM - Thread Starter
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NWCgrad,

The VMPS has always been my dream speaker but I could never find a pair used at the right price, but yeah, why not get it done and out of the way now!

There still remains a very slight chance I go with the JBL 2242 ( I have two EP4000's begging me for use) and if that's the case Joel will be busy with another pair of cabinets. I will have to see how my mid-bass is but I think the bottom end is done for life, for me anyway's smile.gif


As an update, I plan on picking them up this weekend. urapnes1 will be posting some pics tonight.

Have a Happy and safe New Year!!!
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post #184 of 507 Old 12-03-2013, 05:26 PM - Thread Starter
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Does anybody know where to get that paint that looks like bedliner paint for the cabinets? With the nice texture to it.

Have a Happy and safe New Year!!!
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post #185 of 507 Old 12-03-2013, 05:42 PM
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Just google search duratex
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post #186 of 507 Old 12-03-2013, 06:19 PM - Thread Starter
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Got it, thanks!!

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post #187 of 507 Old 12-03-2013, 08:21 PM - Thread Starter
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IMG_8869.jpg 319k .jpg file
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File Type: jpg IMG_8869.jpg (319.4 KB, 12 views)

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post #188 of 507 Old 12-04-2013, 10:12 PM
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Progress! Cabinet #1 is just about complete and # 2 is gluing up as I type this. I was successfully able to lift one of the cabinets into upright position to give me a bit more working room...going to take some advil after doing that!

Lots of glue - about a gallon will go into both of these, and lots of clamps...I have all of my clamps in use with these...lets me get a nice even pressure on everything, and really helps pull panels around and into place with about 1500 pounds of pressure each. At one point I had 18 clamps on 1 cabinet all really nice and snug (18*1250 = roughly 22,500 pounds of pressure!!!)eek.gif

Anyhow...here are some more pics from tonight:



Reddig likes this.
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post #189 of 507 Old 12-04-2013, 10:21 PM
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How much does that beast weigh ?
Damn that things huge:eek:
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post #190 of 507 Old 12-05-2013, 01:02 AM
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that's probably about 325 pounds of mdf in the picture.

another 125 pounds or so from the drivers.

450+ pounds in place.

Listen. It's All Good.
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post #191 of 507 Old 12-05-2013, 04:45 AM
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Would plywood in this instance not have been ideal?
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post #192 of 507 Old 12-05-2013, 08:50 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LTD02 View Post

the cabs being so long will benefit from stuffing (pillows) or resonances could end up in the passband.

here is some good info:

http://www.data-bass.com/data?page=content&id=79

and

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1153089/700-playhouse-sub-ported-fi-q18/60#post_16709957

LTD02,

Pillows or sleeping bags!? biggrin.gif

How many pillows do you think just by the looks of it or can you tell?

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post #193 of 507 Old 12-05-2013, 12:01 PM
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4-6 pillows behind the middle drivers would be a good start.

Listen. It's All Good.
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post #194 of 507 Old 12-05-2013, 12:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LTD02 View Post

that's probably about 325 pounds of mdf in the picture.

another 125 pounds or so from the drivers.

450+ pounds in place.

I tilted the one up by myself. Very heavy!

As far as MDF vs plywood. MDF machines better on the CNC, doesn't measure .717 inches thick which plays hell on designing, and is a bit cheaper. These cabinets have a lot of bracing in them so there shouldn't be much of an issue. I feel that both materials have their merits.
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post #195 of 507 Old 12-05-2013, 02:49 PM
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How you getting them in your home theater ? Need a crane biggrin.gif
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post #196 of 507 Old 12-05-2013, 04:19 PM - Thread Starter
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Without the drivers they are manageble by myself and either of my sons.

Before I bring them in I will paint them and once they are painted I will stand them up and load the drivers in the HT. Any moving outside the HT will be done without the drivers, my biggest concern is wether to spray or roll the duratex. I like the way urapnes1 built the cabinets so I do not have seems to worry about with the paint. Very nicely done. smile.gif

Have a Happy and safe New Year!!!
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post #197 of 507 Old 12-05-2013, 06:00 PM - Thread Starter
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Anyone try this stuff?:

http://store.acrytech.com/Speaker-Cabinet-Coating-Acoust-X-Sound-Damping-Coating.html

Have a Happy and safe New Year!!!
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post #198 of 507 Old 12-13-2013, 08:09 PM - Thread Starter
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I want to run this by you all and get some feedback. As you know from following the post my LCR 's are the 3722 which I have been playing with and breaking in the last week or so and I am pleased with them BUT...they are limited on the top end...so..here is what I'm thinking.....

.... If you look at the horn it has plugs on the sides. I'm thinking of making a baffle plate that will bolt directly above it with dome tweeters and since the emotiva has a biamp option I will run the 3722's as full range and cross the tweeters over at 12-14k so that they will pick up the top end where the JBL horns drop off.

I have seen speakers with horns and dome tweeters. The current JBL horn can almost be looked at as a mid/upper mid horn and the dome tweeters would carry the highs that the 3722 is incapable of playing. Why do I want to do this? Because I want to have the best of both worlds if possible by playing music and video. Will it be for critical listening? No, its more for movies that have music in them so I can reproduce that music.

Now from a purist perspective there is going to be timing issues and I'm sure other things I'm missing but this is not a purist system, its a bone crunching flatten you to the wall if I want too and make your nose bleed...get it? biggrin.gif

So for starters I think a baffle plate with 12 1/2" mylar tweeters per horn...I need something to match the output of the horns (if possible or close to it).... I'm brainstorming here guys so just roll with it...... wink.gif

I really prefer the sound of dome tweeters on the top or electrostatic which is not an option but not horns. They just don't do cymbals justice in my opinion, likewise dome tweeters can't reproduce the sound of a horn section the way horns do...(think salsa music or old school tower of power). I may not be accurate in my description but you get my point...right? smile.gif





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post #199 of 507 Old 12-13-2013, 10:06 PM
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Check these out. Perhaps 3 or 4 per side in a line array

http://www.parts-express.com/peavey-rd-16-versarray-ribbon-tweeter-7-ohm--299-465
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post #200 of 507 Old 12-13-2013, 11:11 PM
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jbl has some that will cover that region and keep up with your mains. there are several discussions around about them.

http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/showthread.php?t=367065

some more here:

http://www.jblpro.com/pages/components/uhf_drvs.htm

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post #201 of 507 Old 12-14-2013, 02:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 316 View Post

I want to run this by you all and get some feedback. As you know from following the post my LCR 's are the 3722 which I have been playing with and breaking in the last week or so and I am pleased with them BUT...they are limited on the top end...so..here is what I'm thinking.....

.... If you look at the horn it has plugs on the sides. I'm thinking of making a baffle plate that will bolt directly above it with dome tweeters and since the emotiva has a biamp option I will run the 3722's as full range and cross the tweeters over at 12-14k so that they will pick up the top end where the JBL horns drop off.

I have seen speakers with horns and dome tweeters. The current JBL horn can almost be looked at as a mid/upper mid horn and the dome tweeters would carry the highs that the 3722 is incapable of playing. Why do I want to do this? Because I want to have the best of both worlds if possible by playing music and video. Will it be for critical listening? No, its more for movies that have music in them so I can reproduce that music.

Now from a purist perspective there is going to be timing issues and I'm sure other things I'm missing but this is not a purist system, its a bone crunching flatten you to the wall if I want too and make your nose bleed...get it? biggrin.gif

So for starters I think a baffle plate with 12 1/2" mylar tweeters per horn...I need something to match the output of the horns (if possible or close to it).... I'm brainstorming here guys so just roll with it...... wink.gif

I really prefer the sound of dome tweeters on the top or electrostatic which is not an option but not horns. They just don't do cymbals justice in my opinion, likewise dome tweeters can't reproduce the sound of a horn section the way horns do...(think salsa music or old school tower of power). I may not be accurate in my description but you get my point...right? smile.gif





I would recommend adding a JBL-2404H as a super type tweeter,or perhaps you might be able to find some Be diaphragms for your current mids/high frequency drivers on those 3722's without adding a super tweeter, as the Be diaphragms will make the mids & highs have more detail, clarity, and sound smoother as well.

Even if you do end up adding a super tweeter, such as the 2404H or 2402 ect...how would you integrate it within the crossover and how can you make it blend and play well enough with the existing drivers?

Subwoofer discussion is getting boring! Seems like that's all that has been going on lately! So let's talk more about actual speaker building! LoL!
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post #202 of 507 Old 12-14-2013, 04:50 AM - Thread Starter
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Knowing JBL they may already have this figured out for me. I will have to verify and if it is what I think it is my cure will be pretty simple and straight forward. If you look at the crossover, it appears to have an output for another horn. I just have to find out if this is a pass through or if it is active and tie my horn into it and done. Assuming I decide to go JBL horn/tweeter smile.gif




Have a Happy and safe New Year!!!
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post #203 of 507 Old 12-14-2013, 04:51 AM - Thread Starter
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if pass through I will need a network either way I should not have to biamp through the Emotiva so this will keep it simple

http://www.jblpro.com/catalog/general/ProductFamily.aspx?FId=29&MID=1

http://www.jblpro.com/products/cinema/index.html

What gets me is I was at a liquidation sale in Oakland where I bought my surrounds and passed on a dozen 2404's and other horns they had there and if I am not mistaken even the 2405's....UGH!!!!

Well guys...off to pick up the Cannon's........Will report back later this afternoon...Joel has those bad boys ready to rock!!!!!!

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post #204 of 507 Old 12-14-2013, 06:07 PM - Thread Starter
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The eagle has landed! Many thanks to Joel...speakers fit, a little prep work and ready for paint!











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post #205 of 507 Old 12-14-2013, 06:45 PM
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eek.gifeek.gifeek.gif

Hook them up ASAP!

War Eagle!
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post #206 of 507 Old 12-14-2013, 06:46 PM
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Boom!!
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post #207 of 507 Old 12-15-2013, 08:31 AM - Thread Starter
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Well I got a double Boom!

As I was searching for JBL tweeters last night I remember something that Joel mentioned in a phone conversation and CLICK a light went off....I calibrated my speakers using emo-q in the Emotiva and BOOM!!! Speakers came alive and are now kickin some serious highs!! I can hear the little bells in a certain song in particular that I am familiar with and other sounds in the higher region that I am used to hearing. fantastic!

So I think for now I'm good and happy and ready to move onto the bass cannon's.

BTW, my freq on the 3722's is 18k according to the specs ( I checked them last night) so I knew there was no way I was hitting that high and it had to be something else...and it was... great news and what a difference in sound!!! So strange because I tried using my eq manually and could not get the top end up...must be that they needed calibration first, don't know don't care, its settled so that's good!! biggrin.gif

Now for the other BOOM!!!!

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post #208 of 507 Old 12-15-2013, 08:37 AM
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Fantastic. Sometimes it is the little things we overlook !
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post #209 of 507 Old 12-15-2013, 10:02 AM - Thread Starter
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Ah...thank God for the little things in life!! biggrin.gif

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post #210 of 507 Old 12-21-2013, 04:53 PM
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I think I might hear about the Boom when I see sasquatch. Both are very elusive.
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