SEOs Tower Concept Mockup - AVS Forum
Forum Jump: 
Reply
 
Thread Tools
post #1 of 65 Old 10-15-2013, 07:38 PM - Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
realtight's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Omaha, NE
Posts: 434
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 13 Post(s)
Liked: 33
I've been itching to try out a larger SEOs DIY kit but I can't get over how fugly they are. What I'd really like is a design to help make these kits shine so I made a quick photoshop rendering of a SEOs kit with a nice JBL K2 S9900 which I think are the pinnacle of horn speaker aesthetics... How difficult would it be to create a tower concept like this with a SEOs kit? How did they get the curved front? I think a SEOs kit with the necessary curved pieces to create the enclosure skeleton for us to wrap around and finish ourselves would be nirvana...

realtight is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 65 Old 10-15-2013, 07:48 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Erich H's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Cincinnati OH
Posts: 5,379
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 308 Post(s)
Liked: 621
No problem....but you just added $1000 to the kit price. cool.gif Or you can simply build the enclosure to look the way you want it to look.

Quote:
Originally Posted by realtight View Post

I've been itching to try out a larger SEOs DIY kit but I can't get over how fugly they are.

You should be banned for such comments. biggrin.gif
Rebel975 likes this.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


Twelve 10" NHT subwoofer build.
Cloning of a NHT VR-3.
2 ACI 15" subwoofers.

Erich H is online now  
post #3 of 65 Old 10-15-2013, 07:56 PM - Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
realtight's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Omaha, NE
Posts: 434
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 13 Post(s)
Liked: 33
Haha, I don't mean to offend anyone, that's just my opinion. I wish I had the woodworking skills to create an enclosure like the concept above but I don't. I honestly would have no clue how to get the front curved part. The back I know how to do but I probably couldn't pull it off.

Getting a good starting point would be worth paying extra to get an enclosure as nice as the JBL's. How much do those JBL's cost? 40k?

Ultra high end SEOs kit would be cool... For a very small fraction of the price.
realtight is offline  
post #4 of 65 Old 10-15-2013, 08:08 PM
AVS Special Member
 
chalugadp's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Vancouver, BC, Canada
Posts: 5,001
Mentioned: 7 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 888 Post(s)
Liked: 1011
Quote:
Originally Posted by realtight View Post

Haha, I don't mean to offend anyone, that's just my opinion. I wish I had the woodworking skills to create an enclosure like the concept above but I don't. I honestly would have no clue how to get the front curved part. The back I know how to do but I probably couldn't pull it off.Getting a good starting point would be worth paying extra to get an enclosure as nice as the JBL's. How much do those JBL's cost? 40k?Ultra high end SEOs kit would be cool... For a very small fraction of the price.
U have the woodworking skills ,but may not have the tools. The curved piece is just a few cuts on a tablesaw with mdf , and then cover it with a veneer.
chalugadp is online now  
post #5 of 65 Old 10-15-2013, 08:14 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
LTD02's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 16,536
Mentioned: 14 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 383 Post(s)
Liked: 1049
it was being discussed, but didn't seem to go anywhere.

you could just buy the baffle and mount it on a simple tower enclosure finished however you want:



i was voting for some dual woofer versions as part of the reference line, but you could get most of the effect that you are shooting for with next to no cost or build complexity by avoiding the curved panels.

Listen. It's All Good.
LTD02 is offline  
post #6 of 65 Old 10-15-2013, 08:15 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
LTD02's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 16,536
Mentioned: 14 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 383 Post(s)
Liked: 1049
or you could recess the baffle and make a flush mount grill for a slick look.

Listen. It's All Good.
LTD02 is offline  
post #7 of 65 Old 10-15-2013, 08:16 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
LTD02's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 16,536
Mentioned: 14 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 383 Post(s)
Liked: 1049
this would be the all out version:

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1203273/wardsweb-diy-3-way-horns

Listen. It's All Good.
LTD02 is offline  
post #8 of 65 Old 10-15-2013, 09:04 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Erich H's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Cincinnati OH
Posts: 5,379
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 308 Post(s)
Liked: 621
Quote:
Originally Posted by LTD02 View Post

it was being discussed, but didn't seem to go anywhere.

Not true sir. wink.gif There's always things going on.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


Twelve 10" NHT subwoofer build.
Cloning of a NHT VR-3.
2 ACI 15" subwoofers.

Erich H is online now  
post #9 of 65 Old 10-15-2013, 09:24 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
LTD02's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 16,536
Mentioned: 14 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 383 Post(s)
Liked: 1049
recessed baffle, flush mount grill, choice of base/feet (full, slim, round, none). :-)


Listen. It's All Good.
LTD02 is offline  
post #10 of 65 Old 10-15-2013, 09:25 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
LTD02's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 16,536
Mentioned: 14 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 383 Post(s)
Liked: 1049
"There's always things going on."

great. but if you don't tell me, i won't know. :-)

Listen. It's All Good.
LTD02 is offline  
post #11 of 65 Old 10-16-2013, 05:48 AM
Advanced Member
 
nograveconcern's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 565
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 52
The recessed grill looks nice, but it creates baffle step issues that should be avoided on a "reference" line. Ideally these should have the baffle flush with the enclosure, 1-2" radiused or angled edges, and a grill that can be added over top for protection but removable for a better performance.

I like the MTM tower format idea a lot though. cool.gif
nograveconcern is offline  
post #12 of 65 Old 10-16-2013, 07:21 AM - Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
realtight's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Omaha, NE
Posts: 434
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 13 Post(s)
Liked: 33
Quote:
Originally Posted by LTD02 View Post

recessed baffle, flush mount grill, choice of base/feet (full, slim, round, none). :-)


Love the ideas going on here! A SEOs MTM or tower would be fantastic!
realtight is offline  
post #13 of 65 Old 10-16-2013, 07:22 AM - Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
realtight's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Omaha, NE
Posts: 434
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 13 Post(s)
Liked: 33
Quote:
Originally Posted by LTD02 View Post

this would be the all out version:

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1203273/wardsweb-diy-3-way-horns

I wish I had the skills to pull something like this off!
realtight is offline  
post #14 of 65 Old 10-16-2013, 07:46 AM - Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
realtight's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Omaha, NE
Posts: 434
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 13 Post(s)
Liked: 33
Quote:
Originally Posted by Erich H View Post

Not true sir. wink.gif There's always things going on.

Are there plans to make a kit with the SEOs 15" waveguides and or MTM? I'd be willing to wait for something like that if there is even a slight bit of hope that something "reference" level might come out.
realtight is offline  
post #15 of 65 Old 10-16-2013, 09:41 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Erich H's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Cincinnati OH
Posts: 5,379
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 308 Post(s)
Liked: 621
From what the designers tell me, there's no good way to do a MTM with big woofers. The center to center spacing of the woofers is really big and needs a very low crossover point. It would need to be a 3 way design.

The Alpha series will likely all be 2 way speakers. The Reference series might be 3 way. I can tell you that a 3 way speaker in the Reference Line would use about $700 - $900 worth of parts. So they wouldn't be cheap.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


Twelve 10" NHT subwoofer build.
Cloning of a NHT VR-3.
2 ACI 15" subwoofers.

Erich H is online now  
post #16 of 65 Old 10-16-2013, 10:38 AM
Advanced Member
 
nograveconcern's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 565
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 52
You could do an 8" MTM, like the fusion 8 MTM but better drivers with a smaller SEOS wave guide.

But...3-way is good. That parts cost seems steep, but probably about right with a 3 way crossover, wave guide and baffle. I would think a Em 3015lf / 18Sound 6ND410 / and a seas 15 setup would be a good combination for a "reference" 3 way. Looking forward to seeing what the designers come up with even though it's way more than I need. cool.gif
nograveconcern is offline  
post #17 of 65 Old 10-16-2013, 10:38 AM
Senior Member
 
mobeer4don's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 453
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 16 Post(s)
Liked: 48
Quote:
Originally Posted by realtight View Post

I wish I had the skills to pull something like this off!

Having the CNC guys cut the ribs/braces would take a lot of the grunt work out out of the project. Then screw the back panel and temporary baffle in place to hold it together. Wrap with bendable plywood (or slotted MDF) and glue up. Trim up with a router (and a simple jig or two). Then work on trimming out the front of the speaker with hardwood and/or veneer. Last but not least, mount CNC cut SEOS baffle finished in duratex. Add curved speaker grill if desired.

I think the design is doable though it would take some extra effort to document the assembly and detail steps to get the less experienced woodwookers to take on the project and bring it to completion. Not sure if it could be reduced to assembly only.

Yeah, I've been working on the mental plans for several months now. wink.gif
mobeer4don is online now  
post #18 of 65 Old 10-16-2013, 10:58 AM - Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
realtight's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Omaha, NE
Posts: 434
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 13 Post(s)
Liked: 33
Quote:
Originally Posted by Erich H View Post

From what the designers tell me, there's no good way to do a MTM with big woofers. The center to center spacing of the woofers is really big and needs a very low crossover point. It would need to be a 3 way design.

The Alpha series will likely all be 2 way speakers. The Reference series might be 3 way. I can tell you that a 3 way speaker in the Reference Line would use about $700 - $900 worth of parts. So they wouldn't be cheap.

Erich, were you thinking $700-900 per speaker or a pair? Still sounds exciting!
realtight is offline  
post #19 of 65 Old 10-16-2013, 11:01 AM - Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
realtight's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Omaha, NE
Posts: 434
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 13 Post(s)
Liked: 33
Quote:
Originally Posted by mobeer4don View Post

Having the CNC guys cut the ribs/braces would take a lot of the grunt work out out of the project. Then screw the back panel and temporary baffle in place to hold it together. Wrap with bendable plywood (or slotted MDF) and glue up. Trim up with a router (and a simple jig or two). Then work on trimming out the front of the speaker with hardwood and/or veneer. Last but not least, mount CNC cut SEOS baffle finished in duratex. Add curved speaker grill if desired.

I think the design is doable though it would take some extra effort to document the assembly and detail steps to get the less experienced woodwookers to take on the project and bring it to completion. Not sure if it could be reduced to assembly only.

Yeah, I've been working on the mental plans for several months now. wink.gif


I think you and I are on the exact same mind set regarding this subject. CNC'd ribs/braces with a front baffle and instructions would be perfect. I've been thinking of how to make a SEO kit look extremely high-end for months now as well and keep coming back to the JBL design. Another idea I had is centered around an MTM so that sounds like it's not an option.

I also find it weird that so many popular speakers from JTR and Yorkville have MTM's...
realtight is offline  
post #20 of 65 Old 10-16-2013, 11:08 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Erich H's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Cincinnati OH
Posts: 5,379
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 308 Post(s)
Liked: 621
Quote:
Originally Posted by realtight View Post

Erich, were you thinking $700-900 per speaker or a pair? Still sounds exciting!


Per speaker. The Reference line would use high end parts. Figure $300+ for the woofer, $100 - $200 for mids (single or duals), $125 for the compression driver, $70 for the crossover, $30 for the waveguide. That's over $700 not counting the cabinet.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


Twelve 10" NHT subwoofer build.
Cloning of a NHT VR-3.
2 ACI 15" subwoofers.

Erich H is online now  
post #21 of 65 Old 10-16-2013, 11:13 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Erich H's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Cincinnati OH
Posts: 5,379
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 308 Post(s)
Liked: 621
Quote:
Originally Posted by nograveconcern View Post

You could do an 8" MTM, like the fusion 8 MTM but better drivers with a smaller SEOS wave guide.

But...3-way is good. That parts cost seems steep, but probably about right with a 3 way crossover, wave guide and baffle. I would think a Em 3015lf / 18Sound 6ND410 / and a seas 15 setup would be a good combination for a "reference" 3 way. Looking forward to seeing what the designers come up with even though it's way more than I need. cool.gif


The waveguide for the Fusion-8 MTM keeps the woofers about as close together as we can get. Some would argue that it's still not ideal. So the only other way to attack that is a 3-way model. I'm trying to pick out parts for such a design. But it would likely need dual mids, and the cost of the whole speaker jumps up pretty quick and gets around the price of a Fusion-12.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


Twelve 10" NHT subwoofer build.
Cloning of a NHT VR-3.
2 ACI 15" subwoofers.

Erich H is online now  
post #22 of 65 Old 10-16-2013, 11:18 AM
Advanced Member
 
nograveconcern's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 565
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 52
Quote:
Originally Posted by Erich H View Post

The waveguide for the Fusion-8 MTM keeps the woofers about as close together as we can get. Some would argue that it's still not ideal. So the only other way to attack that is a 3-way model. I'm trying to pick out parts for such a design. But it would likely need dual mids, and the cost of the whole speaker jumps up pretty quick and gets around the price of a Fusion-12.

That 6ND410 is 102db spl so a single one keeps up well with a 15" low frequency driver. It's a fairly proven combo, not something I came up with. Just a thought.
nograveconcern is offline  
post #23 of 65 Old 10-16-2013, 11:20 AM - Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
realtight's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Omaha, NE
Posts: 434
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 13 Post(s)
Liked: 33
Quote:
Originally Posted by Erich H View Post

Per speaker. The Reference line would use high end parts. Figure $300+ for the woofer, $100 - $200 for mids (single or duals), $125 for the compression driver, $70 for the crossover, $30 for the waveguide. That's over $700 not counting the cabinet.

Seems reasonable, when you say mids - I'm assuming you're referring to a setup similar to the TUX-1099 that's being worked on? Is there any reason why you wouldn't use a horn mid?
realtight is offline  
post #24 of 65 Old 10-16-2013, 11:52 AM
Senior Member
 
antisuck's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 349
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 19 Post(s)
Liked: 65
It seems to me the big challenge with a (single mid driver) 3-way is, if you push the crossover high enough that the mid is radiating at 90 degrees to match the waveguide won't just about any high-efficiency mid start getting in trouble with breakup? And at the same time CD is not being extended down to as low a frequency as it might be? (assuming lower pattern control = always better). It's certainly possible I have imbibed too much of the Controlled Directivity kool-ade lately, but I've been under the impression that the way to go in a premium speaker of this type will always be the best 12" - 15" mid/woofer you can afford, paired with the best and most extended tweeter available, with magical synthesis happening in crossover treatment.

Am I wrong?
antisuck is offline  
post #25 of 65 Old 10-16-2013, 11:55 AM - Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
realtight's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Omaha, NE
Posts: 434
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 13 Post(s)
Liked: 33
Quote:
Originally Posted by antisuck View Post

It seems to me the big challenge with a (single mid driver) 3-way is, if you push the crossover high enough that the mid is radiating at 90 degrees to match the waveguide won't just about any high-efficiency mid start getting in trouble with breakup? And at the same time CD is not being extended down to as low a frequency as it might be? (assuming lower pattern control = always better). It's certainly possible I have imbibed too much of the Controlled Directivity kool-ade lately, but I've been under the impression that the way to go in a premium speaker of this type will always be the best 12" - 15" mid/woofer you can afford, paired with the best and most extended tweeter available, with magical synthesis happening in crossover treatment.

Am I wrong?

It seems that is the approach JBL took with their tower I photochopped above... The small tweeter is only working in the very high frequencies 18khz and higher.
realtight is offline  
post #26 of 65 Old 10-16-2013, 12:05 PM
Senior Member
 
antisuck's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 349
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 19 Post(s)
Liked: 65
Quote:
Originally Posted by realtight View Post

It seems that is the approach JBL took with their tower I photochopped above... The small tweeter is only working in the very high frequencies 18khz and higher.
The K2? Sure, but I'm pretty sure the big horn has a $1000 compression driver behind it and crossed quite low. Not sure how that washes out directivity-wise, or what JBL's design goals were.
antisuck is offline  
post #27 of 65 Old 10-16-2013, 01:12 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Erich H's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Cincinnati OH
Posts: 5,379
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 308 Post(s)
Liked: 621
Quote:
Originally Posted by nograveconcern View Post

That 6ND410 is 102db spl so a single one keeps up well with a 15" low frequency driver. It's a fairly proven combo, not something I came up with. Just a thought.

I also looked at the B&C model:

http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?partnumber=294-650


It won't be too hard to find a mid for those larger models. But finding something for the 8" model is what I'm focusing on now. The problem is that it can't be too tall when used as a center channel. So the mids need to be small. Faital Pro might be the answer, but I think we would need dual mids.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


Twelve 10" NHT subwoofer build.
Cloning of a NHT VR-3.
2 ACI 15" subwoofers.

Erich H is online now  
post #28 of 65 Old 10-16-2013, 01:29 PM
Advanced Member
 
Face2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Long Island, NY
Posts: 696
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 29 Post(s)
Liked: 45
A SEOS-10 with an 8" midrange and 12-15" woofer could work out very well without any directivity issues.

Mike
Face2 is online now  
post #29 of 65 Old 10-16-2013, 03:47 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
LTD02's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 16,536
Mentioned: 14 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 383 Post(s)
Liked: 1049
"From what the designers tell me, there's no good way to do a MTM with big woofers. The center to center spacing of the woofers is really big and needs a very low crossover point. It would need to be a 3 way design."

maybe something is getting lost in the translation when the "designers" say it won't work.

when the woofers are 1/2 a wavelength difference in distance to the listener, you get a cancellation. less than 1/4 wavelength and the summation is nearly perfect.

so mtm with large woofers works just fine if listening on axis, sitting far back, with a low crossover point, and or some combination of all three.



the design that I posted here is one of the more highly regarded studio monitors in jbl's history.

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1291022/hey-guys-we-need-a-little-rallying-here/7980#post_23746847

it doesn't need to be a three way.

Listen. It's All Good.
LTD02 is offline  
post #30 of 65 Old 10-16-2013, 03:50 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
LTD02's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 16,536
Mentioned: 14 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 383 Post(s)
Liked: 1049
"The recessed grill looks nice, but it creates baffle step issues that should be avoided on a "reference" line."

we are using horns, so the effect that you are referring to would be largely mitigated.

the wavelength of the sound travelling across the baffle would be very large relatively to the size of the inset for the flush mounted baffle.

Listen. It's All Good.
LTD02 is offline  
Reply DIY Speakers and Subs

User Tag List

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off