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post #1 of 40 Old 10-21-2013, 05:32 PM - Thread Starter
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What's the deal with the clip light on the Peavy?

I have four subs on one channel and two subs on another.

The four subs are a 2 ohm load for 977.5 watts a driver.

The two subs are a 4 ohm load for 1011 watts a driver.

using the test tones on my AVR I calibrated each channel to 75 DB using the amps gain control. The AVR sub gain is -5.

The amp gain knob for the four subs ended up around 12 o'clock, while the amp gain knob for the two subs ended up at 3 o'clock which I thought was odd because they're actually closer to the listening position.

Anyways.... the clip indicator lights solid on the two subwoofer side, but doesn't even come on at all on the four subwoofer side. ..... of course this is with loud music at 0 on the AVR.

I didn't hear any odd noises out of the speakers. They're all getting roughly the same watts otherwise I would think the speakers would be asking for more power than the amp can put out.

I always thought clipping was the result of asking the amp to dish out more power than it is capable of.

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post #2 of 40 Old 10-21-2013, 10:53 PM
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I think its because the front set have double drivers so 3 dB increase in efficiency, and they also may be getting more room gain. So by level matching the 2 rear drivers with the front 4 drivers you are running a higher gain to the rear and why they are clipping first.

I would think you would set them up so both channels clip at same time, using the rear for smoothing. Might not even need to run a lpf on the rear for localization issues as was mentioned in your other thread since they will be running at a lower output level than the front set.
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post #3 of 40 Old 10-21-2013, 11:05 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Luke Kamp View Post

I think its because the front set have double drivers so 3 dB increase in efficiency, and they also may be getting more room gain. So by level matching the 2 rear drivers with the front 4 drivers you are running a higher gain to the rear and why they are clipping first.

I would think you would set them up so both channels clip at same time, using the rear for smoothing. Might not even need to run a lpf on the rear for localization issues as was mentioned in your other thread since they will be running at a lower output level than the front set.

Thanks for chiming in! I was just searching around for possible explanations.

How would I set them up so both clip at the same time, yet still achieve a 75 db calibration?

By turning up the fronts (so the clip light comes on with the rears) it would be too loud.....technically.

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post #4 of 40 Old 10-21-2013, 11:18 PM
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If you measured 75dB with the sub out at 0, then I would turn up the front until it is clipping at the same time as the rear, then simply lower the sub out in the receiver until the combined output with both running is 75 dB.

I would also check the minidsp input gain when hitting clip lights on amp since running in the .9 volt input sensitivity. I believe I read on the minidsp thread it starts to clip if it is getting to -6 on the input channel rms meter.

Been following along since your disappointment in prior setup . Nice to see the DIY route coming to fruition. cool.gif
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post #5 of 40 Old 10-21-2013, 11:30 PM - Thread Starter
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Thanks for the mini dsp suggestion, will do. And, i think you are right on -6 db. I will double check.

I dont quite understand the input settings and their effect. I just know the lower .9 setting is more sensitive and make PA amps play to potential. tongue.gif

I calibrated with avr sub out at -5, and. The front channel gain is only half way. I will play with it and see if I can get there.

Thinking out loud.....Would the clip light go away if I turned up the amp gain. With the amp gain not turned all the way up Im not getting full power, correct? Or is that incorrect?

I was reading the Peavy manual and it said, if possible, turn the gains up all the way. I could also attenuate using the mini-dsp..... Either ..... in ? Or out?

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post #6 of 40 Old 10-22-2013, 05:35 AM
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I suggested turning your amp to max in the other thread because you said your trim was at +7 I believe. This is very common with pro amps and much to consider in the process. http://www.avsforum.com/t/1313520/pro-amp-gain You are getting full power with the lower setting, but that's not your only consideration.

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post #7 of 40 Old 10-22-2013, 05:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pdxrealtor View Post

With the amp gain not turned all the way up Im not getting full power, correct? Or is that incorrect?

That is incorrect. The gain setting isn't a power setting, per se.

The gain setting only sets the ratio of output signal voltage to input signal voltage. You can get full power out of the amp even at low gain settings as long as there is a strong enough signal going into the amp.
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Just because there is a knob doesn't mean you should turn it.
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post #8 of 40 Old 10-22-2013, 08:59 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by steve nn View Post

I suggested turning your amp to max in the other thread because you said your trim was at +7 I believe. This is very common with pro amps and much to consider in the process. http://www.avsforum.com/t/1313520/pro-amp-gain You are getting full power with the lower setting, but that's not your only consideration.

Thanks for the link. I read it, all. If I said +7 it was a typo. I always aim to set my AVR trim, at least as a 75 DB base setting, at a - level.

As it turns out it's now at max negative, -12. I have so much, what I think is headroom (correct me if I'm wrong), it's not even funny. I'm currently ..... well, current limited. I run out of electricity before anything else.

This is with a 2 ohm load and a 4 ohm load. One on each channel.

ANyways... did a lot of reading and work today. I updated my sono build thread. Thanks everyone for all your help in this thread. It got me really reading. Until 2 am actually. And, up at 8 am to start playing. smile.gif

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post #9 of 40 Old 10-23-2013, 01:11 AM
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I’ll go check it out, you have a great trip and imo a much deserved break from all this workplay. Considering your business, I’m sure you’ll be able to get that electrical issue beefed up/sep breaker no prob.. 6 18”s

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post #10 of 40 Old 10-23-2013, 02:48 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by steve nn View Post

I’ll go check it out, you have a great trip and imo a much deserved break from all this workplay. Considering your business, I’m sure you’ll be able to get that electrical issue beefed up/sep breaker no prob.. 6 18”s

Thanks buddy.... I will. I need to contact Peavy to see just why I'm tripping a dedicated 20 amp breaker. I want to make sure indeed that I need a 30 amp. It's most likely going to involve once again busting open the sheet rock. But at least it will be a short run. All in the name of having the headroom to demo out the capability that is used 6 x a year. rolleyes.gif LOL.... guess that's what happens when you're a basshead.

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post #11 of 40 Old 10-23-2013, 04:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pdxrealtor View Post

I always thought clipping was the result of asking the amp to dish out more power than it is capable of.
The clip lights only show that the amplifier’s inputs are being overdriven. You split the AVR’s output to the two amps, so the same signal (voltage) is going to both, but one has the gains set at 12:00, and the other at 3:00. So naturally you’ll see clip lights activate first on the latter.

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post #12 of 40 Old 10-23-2013, 04:37 PM
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"The clip lights only show that the amplifier’s inputs are being overdriven."

eek.gif

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post #13 of 40 Old 10-23-2013, 05:16 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by LTD02 View Post

"The clip lights only show that the amplifier’s inputs are being overdriven."

eek.gif

Do expand on your ==== eek.gif

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post #14 of 40 Old 10-23-2013, 05:30 PM
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If I’m not mistaken you now have your SW trim at –12 now and not at +8 like you suggested up above and your dsp is at it’s lowest volt/input setting correct?

EDIT> Disregard, I see that you mentioned it in your other thread. http://www.avsforum.com/t/1489523/si-18s-6-in-sono-tubes-build-is-done-need-help-with-tuning/180 post 207

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post #15 of 40 Old 10-23-2013, 05:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LTD02 View Post

"The clip lights only show that the amplifier’s inputs are being overdriven."
eek.gif

That's definitely a plus for PowerSoft and Crown iTech HD's then... they show the Watts output and/or the input and output levels in db's, thermal levels, voltage levels etc. I guess that's the sort of stuff big-money buys.
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post #16 of 40 Old 10-23-2013, 06:03 PM
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I quickly read through the IPR2 PDF's, it makes no mention of the amp size required, however if I truly meets the RMS numbers claimed, then you will need a 50 or 70amp breaker @ 120V. That seems a bit high, unless this is one of the most powerful of the most powerful Pro amp's on the planet!!! (at least 4kW RMS or up to 6.6kW RMS @ dual 2 ohms.... that's a c%$# tonne of power if that's the case.)

I also read that the DDT light is a Distortion Detector light, so the amp is distorting at that point, and I assume they are talking about the OUTPUT level.
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post #17 of 40 Old 10-23-2013, 06:07 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by BassThatHz View Post

I quickly read through the IPR2 PDF's, it makes no mention of the amp size required, however if I truly meets the RMS numbers claimed, then you will need a 50 or 70amp breaker @ 120V. That seems a bit high, unless this is one of the most powerful of the most powerful Pro amp's on the planet!!! (at least 4kW RMS or up to 6.6kW RMS @ dual 2 ohms.... that's a c%$# tonne of power if that's the case.)

I also read that the DDT light is a Distortion Detector light, so the amp is distorting at that point, and I assume they are talking about the OUTPUT level.

The DDT light is indicating that power is being cut. It's a type of protection circuit. Peavy has had it since the 70s, so I read.

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post #18 of 40 Old 10-24-2013, 06:03 AM - Thread Starter
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And.... How are the 14k clones running off 20 and 30 amp fuses?

Its kind of interesting. When looking at a calibrated spl meter I can unplug channel B and watch channel A get extra watts (higher spl).

The peavy gets an extra 100 watts @ 1 2ohm load.

I d like to know what gorilla an pauely etc are running theirs on.

I also didnt think to try max volume on my 4ohm load.

Lots to play with and dial in! Too bad im out of town for a week.

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post #19 of 40 Old 10-24-2013, 10:23 AM
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Wayne posted a few back. I think you should take a look at his second link, "tech articles" on how to maximize your gain structure. It is amazing what it can do for your setup. My guess is you are leaving plenty on the table somewhere.

Next problem, disconnecting one channel and getting an increase in the spl is not likely due to the "extra" 100 watts the other channel would be getting. That extra 100 watts will literally make less than .1dB of a difference. What you ARE hearing and confirming with the spl meter is your subs are not time aligned, and therefore more than likely cancelling each other out to some degree. That is why disengaging one channel makes the other sound louder since you don't have opposing forces cancelling each other out anymore. The minidsp will allow you set the phase/delay of one of your channels so hopefully you can get everything aligned properly and reap the benefits.
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post #20 of 40 Old 10-24-2013, 10:27 AM
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"Do expand..."

clipping occurs when the internal amplification of the signal is beyond the limit of the amplifier. it has nothing to do with the input signal. to clip the input signal on many pro amps, you'd have to be sending it some outrageous amount of voltage. something like 10 volts (?).

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post #21 of 40 Old 10-24-2013, 10:43 AM
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I regularly see the input channels clip on my xti 2k and 4k2. monitor in system architect and its clear as day. I doubt they are sending me 10volts. generally it works out to Plus 3 db over unity on most modern FOH boards. This is in either input Y or Sum.
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post #22 of 40 Old 10-28-2013, 04:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pdxrealtor View Post

And.... How are the 14k clones running off 20 and 30 amp fuses?

It is highly dependent on duty cycle. Breakers can deliver way more than their rating for short periods of time.

For Square D, as an example -

A breaker could support 10 to 20 times its rating up to a second, 3 to 6 times rated for up to 10 seconds, and 1.5 to 2 times rating for up to 100 seconds.

Just because there is a knob doesn't mean you should turn it.
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post #23 of 40 Old 10-28-2013, 05:16 PM - Thread Starter
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Do you think I have a faulty breaker? I have square d, new panel in 2006, new breaker 3 months ago just for the amp. 200 amp main, 20 amp circuit breaker. Less than 4 ft of line from box to plug.

Its one of those dual breakers, so 2 20 amp breakers in 1 slot.

I blow it on a rew 1-200 hz tone crossed at 80.

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post #24 of 40 Old 10-28-2013, 05:51 PM
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I'm running my ipr7500 on a 20 amp circuit along with a crown xls1500 and maybe more. I have 3 dedicated 20 amp lines with 6 xls 1500's, the ipr and all the rest of my equipment and have yet to pop a breaker. The ipr is running a uxl18 on each channel (4 ohm each) with heavy boost down low and run the whole system hard in a huge room. Fairly different setup than yours but just another data point for you.

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post #25 of 40 Old 10-28-2013, 06:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pdxrealtor View Post

Do you think I have a faulty breaker? I have square d, new panel in 2006, new breaker 3 months ago just for the amp. 200 amp main, 20 amp circuit breaker. Less than 4 ft of line from box to plug.

Its one of those dual breakers, so 2 20 amp breakers in 1 slot.

I blow it on a rew 1-200 hz tone crossed at 80.

Why the dual breaker if it's just for the amp?

Just because there is a knob doesn't mean you should turn it.
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post #26 of 40 Old 10-28-2013, 06:14 PM
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Why the dual breaker if it's just for the amp?

he probably is talking about tandem breakers. didn't have any more box space so they used a tandem breaker for the 20 amp breaker that was already there for something + the new circuit for the amp
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post #27 of 40 Old 10-28-2013, 06:17 PM - Thread Starter
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^^ exactly. A tandem.

I can move the tandem and put a single in but i dont think a tandem should pop any sooner than a single. ??

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post #28 of 40 Old 10-28-2013, 07:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wormraper View Post

he probably is talking about tandem breakers. didn't have any more box space so they used a tandem breaker for the 20 amp breaker that was already there for something + the new circuit for the amp

I know what he meant. A single pole dual (or tandem, if you prefer) breaker, not a two pole breaker.

Being out of space in the panel is logical to use one, as long as the total allowable # of poles isn't exceeded. The main panel in my house is what some would call a 30-40 panel. It has 30 spaces but can accept up to 40 poles. Disregarding double pole breakers for sake of discussion, I could have 30 standard single pole breakers or I could have 20 standard single pole breakers and 10 dual/tandem breakers, or some combination thereof not to exceed 40 poles total.

Just seemed unlikely to me that you'd have a 200A panel but not even one open space.

Just because there is a knob doesn't mean you should turn it.
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post #29 of 40 Old 10-28-2013, 07:41 PM
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^^ exactly. A tandem.

I can move the tandem and put a single in but i dont think a tandem should pop any sooner than a single. ??

I wouldn't think it should either, but I've not examined the trip curves for one of those vs. the more standard single breaker.

Just because there is a knob doesn't mean you should turn it.
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post #30 of 40 Old 10-28-2013, 09:21 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by whoaru99 View Post

I know what he meant. A single pole dual (or tandem, if you prefer) breaker, not a two pole breaker.

Being out of space in the panel is logical to use one, as long as the total allowable # of poles isn't exceeded. The main panel in my house is what some would call a 30-40 panel. It has 30 spaces but can accept up to 40 poles. Disregarding double pole breakers for sake of discussion, I could have 30 standard single pole breakers or I could have 20 standard single pole breakers and 10 dual/tandem breakers, or some combination thereof not to exceed 40 poles total.

Just seemed unlikely to me that you'd have a 200A panel but not even one open space.

Complete gut and remodel added a lot of stuff to the panel. We have several tandem breakers. Not sure on the number.

Ill have to look when I get back to town.

I gotta figure out why a dedicated 20 amp is triping on ~5500 wats. Im not even using the full 7500 of the peavy......

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