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post #181 of 246 Old 12-10-2013, 11:35 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by splotten View Post


Oh..

That was not what i meant. Incorrectly, it seems, i assumed you couldn't get the levels in the MRX to match because the marty was not loud enough. If its too loud compared to the others there's no reason to max out the inuke. Just level match like you would any other sub.

Thanks Splotten! I was under the impression that the inuke had to be at max gain, but it appears that is not the case. I will level match and run arc again.
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post #182 of 246 Old 12-10-2013, 11:36 AM - Thread Starter
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Here is what I got from my MartySub variant (note that my tune ended up lower than expected and sparked some of the discussion about WinISD and port correction factors). The "Stuffed" curve was with my port stuffed with rags to get some idea of what the port was doing to the woofer. This was measured with my Audyssey mic about 1cm from the woofer dust cover at some random volume setting:



And this is an idealized summation of the near field woofer response with the port open added to the port response (measured 5cm deep inside the port) with the port response adjusted down 9dB before addition to the woofer response.



There were no Low Pass or High Pass filters employed for these measurements and my amp is only -3 dB at 0.5 Hz, but there may be built-in limits in the subwoofer signal passed from my Denon AVR3313CI.

Mhutch, those are some good looking graphs you got there. Which amp are you using?
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post #183 of 246 Old 12-10-2013, 03:05 PM
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Hafler DH-500

A DIY from the wayback machine...

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post #184 of 246 Old 12-21-2013, 01:16 AM
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atabea, are you up and running?

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post #185 of 246 Old 12-21-2013, 01:21 AM - Thread Starter
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So after much experimentation with my amp (inuke 3000dsp) and running Anthem ARC numerous times, I have come to the conclusion that the original configuration was/is the best. By original, I mean implementing a HP filter as well as a LP filter as suggested by LTD and splotten. I have conducted extensive listening tests with both music and movies over the past week and it’s quite clear that the filters are necessary before applying arc. My trims are all within acceptable levels as well (according to arc).

When I run my Marty variant by itself, it is a pure monster- - plain and simple. It has a lot more output than my dual PSAs combined and that’s easy to measure, hear and feel. However, I prefer the sound/feel with all three subs actively engaged. Don’t know why, but it just sounds more even and smooth, even though it appears this combination is restraining the Marty somewhat. Not sure I am effectively describing what I am trying to communicate.

On a purely subjective level, I have to say that my system has never sounded better or more powerful. It’s just so effortlessly powerful now and I am not one to place quantity over quality, so I want to be clear by saying the bass I am experiencing is tight and articulate and not of the loose, boomy variety. I just can’t stand boomy or sloppy bass.

Notwithstanding the price of the parts (wood, glue, driver and amp), theses LTD/Marty subs are quite formidable once you get things adequately tweaked and you apply some decent room correction. It is at least the equal (and I really think it surpasses) my two PSAs so am guessing it should easily fit into the $1,600 and above category of commercial sub performance. Anyone contemplating building one of these subs should not hesitate. Its sheer size may not be for everyone, but its sound quality and potential more than compensate IMO.

Someone mentioned that there may be some improvement over time as the driver is broken in. Whether that’s true or not, I have found that the sound quality has steadily and subtly improved with additional usage. Ultimately, I am very pleased with the outcome.

This has been a huge learning experience and I am glad I jumped in despite my very limited knowledge in this area. On that note, I would like to thank all the folks who have helped me with this project:

Thank you LTD02, Mhutchins, Chaluga, Splotten and Steve nn –very much appreciated!!!! Hope I haven’t missed anyone.


Best regards,
Rick
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post #186 of 246 Old 12-21-2013, 01:27 AM
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Great to hear ... feels good doesn't it tongue.gif
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post #187 of 246 Old 12-21-2013, 01:33 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by LTD02 View Post

atabea, are you up and running?

Hi Ltd, looks like we were posting at the same time.
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post #188 of 246 Old 12-21-2013, 01:35 AM - Thread Starter
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Great to hear ... feels good doesn't it tongue.gif

Hey Chaluga, it DOES feel good!!. It's a personal satisfaction when things fall into place and it turns out well. In this case, it surpassed my expectation.

Rick
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post #189 of 246 Old 12-21-2013, 01:38 AM
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that' pretty wild. 1 week and 4 days goes by and then we were writing at the exact same time.

what a great review!

and...thanks for the kind words. the martysub was born as and will always be a team project.

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post #190 of 246 Old 12-21-2013, 02:19 AM
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drop nick of s.i. (callsign electrodynamic, i think that is him) a note too. i'm sure he'd like to know how much you like your sub.

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post #191 of 246 Old 12-21-2013, 03:00 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by LTD02 View Post

drop nick of s.i. (callsign electrodynamic, i think that is him) a note too. i'm sure he'd like to know how much you like your sub.

Will do, LTD. Actually, I have to contact him about sending me another Fedex label so I can return the 15 incher he shipped by mistake. The first label he sent me had an expiry date which I could not fulfill as I needed to return the driver to the place it was originally shipped in Buffalo. I have since done so and it's sitting at my friend's house in Buffalo.

Rick
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post #192 of 246 Old 12-21-2013, 04:56 AM
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This is good news ata, glad you like it so much. Going with 2-3 subs for smoothing is quite common around here as I’m sure you know and I suspect that’s what you’re experiencing even though the PSA’s (might) be working against you to a degree compared to three Marty’s instead of one. That being that it sounds like you have all the headroom you can handle. They are indeed large, but then they put out nice articulate large bass. You might go back and check out calibration after 30-40 hours of use because of driver break-in. http://www.gr-research.com/myths.htm Thanks for letting me tag along and share in your build. Great job.. cool.gif

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post #193 of 246 Old 12-21-2013, 03:53 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by steve nn View Post

This is good news ata, glad you like it so much. Going with 2-3 subs for smoothing is quite common around here as I’m sure you know and I suspect that’s what you’re experiencing even though the PSA’s (might) be working against you to a degree compared to three Marty’s instead of one. That being that it sounds like you have all the headroom you can handle. They are indeed large, but then they put out nice articulate large bass. You might go back and check out calibration after 30-40 hours of use because of driver break-in. http://www.gr-research.com/myths.htm Thanks for letting me tag along and share in your build. Great job.. cool.gif

Thanks Steve nn, I will be sure to run ARC again in another 40 hours or so. I am off until the new year with lots of family and friends visiting so I think I will be logging at least that amount of time. As impressed as I am with my Marty variant, I am already wondering what a couple more of them might sound/feel like. Gawd, I am not sure the house can stand it though, I swear I am gonna break something.
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post #194 of 246 Old 12-21-2013, 10:40 PM
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A question about how far to push Marty sub. I just watched a movie a little louder. The clip lights on the inuke during the bass passages 20-30 of them were three solid and a flash of fourth. The loudest one the fourth light came on for two seconds .

If I remember ltd right , this is within safe limits . The fourth light is 25% power of inuke ? What do you run your marty at atabea ? My gains are all the way up.
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post #195 of 246 Old 12-22-2013, 01:35 AM
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I think this is what you were referring to:

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1489541/large-ported-dayton-ho18s/570#post_23864941


each light is an indicator of the level.

-24db, -12db, -6db, and the red one is limit/clip.

-24db is about 0.4% power and is more or less just and indicator that a signal is getting through
-12db is about 6.3% power
-6db is about 25.1% power and is just a "heads up" you are getting close.

if you aren't lighting up those three during heavy bass scenes with the gain turned all the to max, then you aren't getting enough signal into the amp (or aren't pushing your amp very hard).

during typical loud music usage, it would not be uncommon to run with most of the amber lights lit and the red blinking occasionally, but only a very little bit.

it is only when the red blinks a lot that you are clipping the amp too much and should back down.

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post #196 of 246 Old 12-22-2013, 02:12 AM
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Thanks ,
Red light just occasional so I should be fine.
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post #197 of 246 Old 12-22-2013, 03:45 AM
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Quote:
ata I am already wondering what a couple more of them might sound/feel like

eek.gif Uh Oh! sounds like the need to feed. wink.gif Being the XV15 is the same as the PB12-NSD at 20hz, it would take 2 XV15 to equal what you just built at 20hz, 3 at 16hz. Say if you did that (built two more) and found you had absolutely no reason to build again except you like the process of building a sub once and a while or have a second smaller system somewhere possibly a soundbar with sub out. What a guy can do is pick up a nice versatile 12” and use the driver and amp in different alignments and projects as to have something to tinker with when he feels like it at hardly any cost. If you do feel like spending a little $$, a guy can go exotic veneer, different amp, PR’s or a different driver.. sky's the limit. I guess what I’m trying to say is a guy never needs to quit building subs if that’s one of his hobbies.

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post #198 of 246 Old 12-22-2013, 03:52 AM
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"As impressed as I am with my Marty variant, I am already wondering what a couple more of them might sound/feel like."

:-)

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post #199 of 246 Old 12-22-2013, 08:14 AM
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Let me know when you are ready to build another Marty. I have been thinking about simplified bracing strategies to make the build go quicker. I'm in the process of collecting images right now in preparation for a post in one of these threads. Or maybe start a new thread...

Mike
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Mike...new thread for those bracing suggestions??...or something LTD would be willing to add to the MartySub! master build post?...or both???


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Originally Posted by mhutchins View Post

Let me know when you are ready to build another Marty. I have been thinking about simplified bracing strategies to make the build go quicker. I'm in the process of collecting images right now in preparation for a post in one of these threads. Or maybe start a new thread...

Mike

I am almost ready to build a Marty and wouldnt mind following your blueprints. Post a new thread !

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post #202 of 246 Old 12-22-2013, 02:34 PM
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mike has made great contributions to the development of the martysub. if there should be more links to his pages or more of his pictures/process in the martysub o.p., we can get them in there. its all very much appreciated.

congrats ryan...it's a whole lot of bass...that's for sure.
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post #203 of 246 Old 12-22-2013, 05:28 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by LTD02 View Post

mike has made great contributions to the development of the martysub. if there should be more links to his pages or more of his pictures/process in the martysub o.p., we can get them in there. its all very much appreciated.

congrats ryan...it's a whole lot of bass...that's for sure.

Yep, no doubt about it; Mike played a critical role with the Marty project. If it weren't for his detailed build sequence with pictures, my build would not have been as successful for sure. If Mike has any ideas that would further streamline and improve on the Marty, that would be great for future builds. For anyone who is on the fence about building of these, this sub is a gem, albeit a very large gem. If you can live with the conspicuously large size, you are in for a treat.
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post #204 of 246 Old 12-22-2013, 06:14 PM - Thread Starter
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A question about how far to push Marty sub. I just watched a movie a little louder. The clip lights on the inuke during the bass passages 20-30 of them were three solid and a flash of fourth. The loudest one the fourth light came on for two seconds .

If I remember ltd right , this is within safe limits . The fourth light is 25% power of inuke ? What do you run your marty at atabea ? My gains are all the way up.

Originally, I thought that my gain in the inuke 3000dsp had to be at max. However, in order to integrate all three subs (my two PSAs and the Marty), I had to do some adjustments that would result in all three subs combined equaling 75 db (when measured, using a SPL meter), before running ARC. In order to accomplish this, I ended up pulling back the gain on the inuke exactly 8 clicks from maximum. Once I got all three subs level matched, I ran ARC which produced a really nice curve, resulting in a well-blended system. If I remember correctly, you are running a HSU VTF15 with your Marty and the inkue at full max, but I am not sure what type of room correction you are using. From my understanding of how to integrate multiple subs, it is necessary to level match all subs to equal 75d db (combined) prior to running any room correction. In your case, for two subs, that would mean each one would have to measure 72 db separately---and when played together they would automatically equal 75 db. I have found that it would be impossible to get the Marty to measure 72 db by itself unless you turn down the gain ( in my case 8 clicks). If you haven't already, I would recommend you try this method and see how it works out for you.

PS next time I watch a movie I will check for those clip lights.
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post #205 of 246 Old 12-22-2013, 06:19 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by steve nn View Post

eek.gif Uh Oh! sounds like the need to feed. wink.gif Being the XV15 is the same as the PB12-NSD at 20hz, it would take 2 XV15 to equal what you just built at 20hz, 3 at 16hz. Say if you did that (built two more) and found you had absolutely no reason to build again except you like the process of building a sub once and a while or have a second smaller system somewhere possibly a soundbar with sub out. What a guy can do is pick up a nice versatile 12” and use the driver and amp in different alignments and projects as to have something to tinker with when he feels like it at hardly any cost. If you do feel like spending a little $$, a guy can go exotic veneer, different amp, PR’s or a different driver.. sky's the limit. I guess what I’m trying to say is a guy never needs to quit building subs if that’s one of his hobbies.

Hey Steve, I like your thinking!..A guy could really satisfy that NEED to build manly toys in so many variations----in a subwoofery context, of course.
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post #206 of 246 Old 12-22-2013, 06:44 PM
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I have level matched my subs. The test tone is my guess at about 60hz. My hsu is strong at that hz. If the test tone was at 30 hz then I would have to turn marty down 8 clicks . I moved marty about two feet from the corner to try to be closer to the 1/4 ratio. Bass is smoother. Ran rew and it confirmed it.
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post #207 of 246 Old 12-22-2013, 06:48 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by chalugadp View Post

I have level matched my subs. The test tone is my guess at about 60hz. My hsu is strong at that hz. If the test tone was at 30 hz then I would have to turn marty down 8 clicks . I moved marty about two feet from the corner to try to be closer to the 1/4 ratio. Bass is smoother. Ran rew and it confirmed it.

When you measure marty by itself, with gain at max, what is your spl reading?
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post #208 of 246 Old 12-22-2013, 06:59 PM
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With my emotiva umc200 I turn the volume to 85 dbs for all speakers and then I adjust the trims so they are equal. The hsu gain was at 10 o'clock. The hsu from 50-70hz is pretty close to the marty. From 16-40 marty kills it and from 70- 100 it kills it. Bass is balanced nicely with my mains. I don't run it 10dbs hot like some.
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post #209 of 246 Old 12-22-2013, 08:29 PM - Thread Starter
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With my emotiva umc200 I turn the volume to 85 dbs for all speakers and then I adjust the trims so they are equal. The hsu gain was at 10 o'clock. The hsu from 50-70hz is pretty close to the marty. From 16-40 marty kills it and from 70- 100 it kills it. Bass is balanced nicely with my mains. I don't run it 10dbs hot like some.

Fair enough. Am not a fan of running my subs hot too.
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post #210 of 246 Old 12-22-2013, 09:53 PM
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I'm humbled by your comments. Thank you very much.

Here is the link to my new bracing post in the Marty Sub thread. It is a work in progress...

Thanks again, this is a great community! wink.gif
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