Premade or diy with a $500-$600 budget? (Canada) - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 34 Old 10-29-2013, 07:03 PM - Thread Starter
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Alright I'm moving into a house next month and am looking to make an addition to my home theater. I currently have Paradigm mk3 se fronts, CC-300 center and onkyo tx-nr616. I'm not running a sub at the moment. the room it will be going in is in the basement which is L shaped with a hallway. I'm going to ballpark the L shaped room to be roughly 3500 cubic feet. I haven't actually measured but it's not a huge area. Would be 70% ht and 30% music. I'm not a huge bass head as you can probably tell by me not having a sub, but I think it will be a great addition.

The 2 premade subs I picked out are the PB-1000 and Rythmik lv12r (Probably B stock). So the question is can I build something as nice or better myself with that budget? Or is this at the price range where it's going to be hard to beat mass production. I know the bigger you go the better diy becomes.

There aren't many quality places to buy subs in Canada premade or diy. So import fees and extra shipping costs may come into affect for multiple items going the diy route.

I've done lots of reading on this forum lately and have learned lots. Would love to hear everyone's thoughts.

Thanks,

Travis
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post #2 of 34 Old 10-29-2013, 07:37 PM
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...just go for the kill.

Marty Sub! inuke 3000dsp. IST IXL 18.2.2. driver from Canada.

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1489541/large-ported-dayton-ho18s#post_23711347


Listen. It's All Good.
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post #3 of 34 Old 10-29-2013, 07:54 PM - Thread Starter
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haha wow that thing is a beast! I don't see a price of what it cost though. Any idea?
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post #4 of 34 Old 10-29-2013, 08:20 PM
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I know Bob at CSS had a couple of Trio 12 subs that were open and tested or something for real cheap back in August. He might still have them. Creativesound.ca. I almost bought them. I have 6 trio 12s in my setup and they're quite nice for the money I spent. I'm not quite the output junky some of these guys are. I did that during my car audio phase as a teen wink.gif

He's also got the newer SDX12 which isn't a bargain sub, but its really good in a small sealed box. In a basement that might not be necessary though.

There's also solen.ca which caries the popular 18" Dayton and other various Dayton subs. Not to much else for subs though. Personally, the box size requirements are just a bit to large for me.

I'm not familiar with the premade subs you're considering so I can't say how those compare.
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post #5 of 34 Old 10-29-2013, 08:46 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tuxedocivic View Post

I know Bob at CSS had a couple of Trio 12 subs that were open and tested or something for real cheap back in August. He might still have them. Creativesound.ca. I almost bought them. I have 6 trio 12s in my setup and they're quite nice for the money I spent. I'm not quite the output junky some of these guys are. I did that during my car audio phase as a teen wink.gif

He's also got the newer SDX12 which isn't a bargain sub, but its really good in a small sealed box. In a basement that might not be necessary though.

There's also solen.ca which caries the popular 18" Dayton and other various Dayton subs. Not to much else for subs though. Personally, the box size requirements are just a bit to large for me.

I'm not familiar with the premade subs you're considering so I can't say how those compare.

Thanks for the heads up.

Yeah that enclosure for the 18" is giant. I'm thinking too big. Those two subs I mentioned are the two recommended from this forum in my price range.
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post #6 of 34 Old 10-29-2013, 08:56 PM
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I'm in Canada as well. Way more bang for your buck getting shipped near the border and pick it up. I built marty for 700 and I'm sure you could build smaller for around 500 that would best your name brands.
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post #7 of 34 Old 10-29-2013, 09:01 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chalugadp View Post

I'm in Canada as well. Way more bang for your buck getting shipped near the border and pick it up. I built marty for 700 and I'm sure you could build smaller for around 500 that would best your name brands.

I'm a little less than an hour from the border but I've never actually shipped something to the border then picked it up. Maybe I should map out how big I could go for an enclosure. Did you use the dayton 18"? Which amp did you go with?

*Edi0t*

Also where do you guys put a sub this large? It's pretty much a big coffee table or tv stand.
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post #8 of 34 Old 10-29-2013, 09:27 PM
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There is no reason whatsover in ordering from the USA to Canada. We have our own suppliers right here. We have IST in Manitoba who make great drivers. We have CSS in BC who have everything from just the driver to complete kits with everything you need, including the plans. There is also Solen.ca who carry many of the Dayton Audio drivers as well as many many other brands.

You could build 2 quartet 10's or 12's from CSS and get some great FR in that room. You could also build something based on the IXL 18 which is $300 shipped. No reason to order from the USA at all....
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post #9 of 34 Old 10-29-2013, 09:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Danielson99 View Post

There is no reason whatsover in ordering from the USA to Canada. We have our own suppliers right here. We have IST in Manitoba who make great drivers. We have CSS in BC who have everything from just the driver to complete kits with everything you need, including the plans. There is also Solen.ca who carry many of the Dayton Audio drivers as well as many many other brands. You could build 2 quartet 10's or 12's from CSS and get some great FR in that room. You could also build something based on the IXL 18 which is $300 shipped. No reason to order from the USA at all....

Hey if you want to pay more , fine. My si 18 was 80 bucks cheaper then the ixl in the USA. No 13.5 taxes here in bc. My inuke 3000 dsp was 225 bucks cheaper then a comparable product at a store in my.city . The cables were half the price on ebay. I did buy the plywood at rona because it was at a competitive price. All together I saved over 300 bucks doing it my way.
I think I will keep saving money and getting more for my cash. Don't bother giving me the buy Canadian speech. Money I save can go to my kids. You can buy wherever and whoever you want from and me the same
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post #10 of 34 Old 10-29-2013, 10:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chalugadp View Post

You can buy wherever and whoever you want from and me the same

Yeah, that's my point. The guy wanted to buy something from Canada and I suggested a way for him to support a Canadian company, save the time and money of driving for hours to go across the border and back...and NOT have to lie to the border agents about what he's bringing back just so he can come on avsforum and tell everybody what a great deal he got by buying in the USA!
Lets just say this, if a person is honest and pays the duty...you ain't saving much at all....not to mention that most electronics is not covered by warranty once it crosses the border. But then again, you could just lie about that too and pretend it was in the USA the entire time.

BTW, I can buy an Inuke3000 dsp in Canada with free shipping for $260. Somehow I think you're full of it when it comes to adding up the money you 'think' you save. Anyway, some people prefer to do things the honest way....just not people like you.

Sorry for the interruption Pax, I'm not sure where you'd like to buy your equipment but I can tell you one thing....buying in Canada doesn't have to be much, if any more costly. You just have to keep your eyes open and know where to shop. If I were you, if it's a 'first' DIY attempt, I would probably build a sealed sub because it's nice and easy and it's on the smaller side. You can buy the Dayton Audio RSS390HO-4 and build a 3.5cft sealed enclosure. Feed it with the iNuke3000 DSP and you're golden. The driver is $200 on Solen, the Inuke is $260 on ebay. Oh wait, you could order the driver from PE in the USA for $175 and the iNuke for $220 or so....maybe it's worth saving $50 to drive a couple hours across the line and pretend you have nothing to declare on your way back! lol

If you think a 15" sealed sub is too much then there is always the 12" version which means cheaper driver and cheaper amp...or use the same iNuke amp and build two 12" subs smile.gif
I would definitely try building one yourself, it's a great hobby!!!
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post #11 of 34 Old 10-29-2013, 10:41 PM - Thread Starter
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Thanks for all the suggestions. If I go the DIY route I would just copy another build on here. Just want something that sounds good in my price range.

I mentioned the states because many of the drivers people use on here are sold there only. I'm not into sneaking it across the border though. I would tell them what I bought.

I'll check out the subs and amps you listed for shipping costs. Are there any good sealed box plans could use as a guide from here that come to mind?
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post #12 of 34 Old 10-29-2013, 10:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Danielson99 View Post

[quote name="chalugadp" url="/t/1497140/premade-or-diy-with-a-500-600-budget-canada#post_23890285"]You can buy wherever and whoever you want from and me the same[/quote]Yeah, that's my point. The guy wanted to buy something from Canada and I suggested a way for him to support a Canadian company, save the time and money of driving for hours to go across the border and back...and NOT have to lie to the border agents about what he's bringing back just so he can come on avsforum and tell everybody what a great deal he got by buying in the USA!Lets just say this, if a person is honest and pays the duty...you ain't saving much at all....not to mention that most electronics is not covered by warranty once it crosses the border. But then again, you could just lie about that too and pretend it was in the USA the entire time.BTW, I can buy an Inuke3000 dsp in Canada with free shipping for $260. Somehow I think you're full of it when it comes to adding up the money you 'think' you save. Anyway, some people prefer to do things the honest way....just not people like you.Sorry for the interruption Pax, I'm not sure where you'd like to buy your equipment but I can tell you one thing....buying in Canada doesn't have to be much, if any more costly. You just have to keep your eyes open and know where to shop. If I were you, if it's a 'first' DIY attempt, I would probably build a sealed sub because it's nice and easy and it's on the smaller side. You can buy the Dayton Audio RSS390HO-4 and build a 3.5cft sealed enclosure. Feed it with the iNuke3000 DSP and you're golden. The driver is $200 on Solen, the Inuke is $260 on ebay. Oh wait, you could order the driver from PE in the USA for $175 and the iNuke for $220 or so....maybe it's worth saving $50 to drive a couple hours across the line and pretend you have nothing to declare on your way back! lolIf you think a 15" sealed sub is too much then there is always the 12" version which means cheaper driver and cheaper amp...or use the same iNuke amp and build two 12" subs :) I would definitely try building one yourself, it's a great hobby!!!

Dude don't go calling me a liar. Do you know.the rules at the border ? Do you know where I live ? Mmmm .. no. I live 30 minutes from the border in coquitlam , bc. Gassing up in the south is worth the drive. Stay down there for 2 days and each person can bring back 800 bucks each. There is no lying to border guards. I go to Friday harbour and have a great time. I love visiting the states and so does my family . I will not be visiting this thread again . Just make sure you never go to Hawaii , Vegas , or anywhere outside of Canada .
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post #13 of 34 Old 10-29-2013, 10:59 PM - Thread Starter
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Sorry for all the trouble I didn't mean for this to get into this kind of debate.
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post #14 of 34 Old 10-29-2013, 11:05 PM
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hey don't forget about Canuck Audio Mart. It's a great resource for everybody up here in Canada. Lots of nice used electronics on there and plenty of it in Saskatchewan too...

The price range you're in would be good for a Quartet build from CSS. The plans for the enclosure are provided to you. You can build a ported or sealed build...but as I mentioned, sealed are easier to build if you're doing your first. You do have the option of going with the 12 or 15" Dayton driver from Solen and just copy a build off of avsforum. There are PLENTY of builds available to choose from..even with the exact driver. There are also plenty of people on here that will share their advice when it comes to putting together an enclosure but you'll need to give them the information of what driver you're using and what amp.
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post #15 of 34 Old 10-29-2013, 11:10 PM
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You could go with something like THIS but there are plenty of other kits available.....

I've used that exact same amp, very good amp...sad that I sold mine. In a typical sealed enclosure that kit would give you a great sounding subwoofer with good extension. Not overly loud but probably enough for most people....
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post #16 of 34 Old 10-29-2013, 11:21 PM - Thread Starter
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Thanks for all the info I have been checking out canuck audio mart. Only decent subs I've found locally so far are the paradigm pw-2500 (15") and Mirage bps-150 (dual 8"s). And I'm not even sure how decent they are. I'll do some more reading and go from there. It would be nice to know how these diy stack up to the svs or rythmik subs.
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post #17 of 34 Old 10-29-2013, 11:31 PM
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Any sub you build with a 12" or 15" driver such as the SDX12 or Dayton Audio RSS390HO or HF-4 will be equal to or better than ANY sub you can buy for the same price. In most cases, the sub you build will easily outperform any store-bought sub for the same price and usually it's by huge margins. Right now I have a 15" driver in a folded horn enclosure with a measily 300w plate amp and the output can not be bought in a store for under $1000, probably closer to $1500. It cost me maybe $500 to build. The only problem for you is that the enclosure for the folded horn is huge 20cft. This is what makes a sealed enclosure appealing. The SDX kits are based around an 18" cube which is around 3cft. Major difference in size.

Hey, you can always go buy a second hand sub from someone...but building one is very rewarding. Especially when you have friends or family over and they comment on how great it sounds.
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post #18 of 34 Old 10-29-2013, 11:49 PM - Thread Starter
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Thanks for all the info Daniel. Sealed sounds like the way to go for me as I haven't done too many wood projects in my lifetime. I'll have a look at all the previous build threads on here.
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post #19 of 34 Old 10-29-2013, 11:51 PM
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Hi Travis

For what its worth, I recently bought a Dayton 12" Ultimax Driver from parts Express and the SPA 500W plate amp

This is my first sub build and I'll be doing a sealed 2ft^3 enclosure with this design but suited to make the enclosure volume at 2cuft. The internal measurements are 16"h X 16" w x 18" d with bracing as shown in the above plan. the outer dimension would be 17.5 X 17.5 X 19.5

Gijo
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post #20 of 34 Old 10-30-2013, 01:15 AM
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Do this.
Quote:
Originally Posted by LTD02 View Post

...just go for the kill.

Marty Sub! inuke 3000dsp. IST IXL 18.2.2. driver from Canada.

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1489541/large-ported-dayton-ho18s#post_23711347


With this.

http://www.istonline.ca/mach5_ixl_18.html

LTD was kind enough to model it out here.

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1489541/large-ported-dayton-ho18s/600#post_23882608

I doubt you will a find a better bang for your buck for 500-600, may be SLIGHTLY over budget, but it would be worth it.
Be the first Martysub owner do build one with the IXL biggrin.gif
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post #21 of 34 Old 10-30-2013, 03:07 AM - Thread Starter
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I was measuring this out to see how big it would actually be and it's big! Not sure if it'll pass the waf.... I mean I'm not even sure where I would put this in the room. I was trying to find prices for inuke 3000dsp and it's going to cost $300 as well. Although Daniel mentioned he knows where to get it for cheaper.

I was kind of eyeing up the dayton 15" HF with the bash 300 or 500 amp. Then building a 4-5 cubic foot box.
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post #22 of 34 Old 10-30-2013, 03:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Paxonator View Post

I was measuring this out to see how big it would actually be and it's big! Not sure if it'll pass the waf.... I mean I'm not even sure where I would put this in the room. I was trying to find prices for inuke 3000dsp and it's going to cost $300 as well. Although Daniel mentioned he knows where to get it for cheaper.

I was kind of eyeing up the dayton 15" HF with the bash 300 or 500 amp. Then building a 4-5 cubic foot box.

It's addicting, you may like building this so much you'll want more, haha wink.gif
I'm sure you will be happy with that, Dayton makes quality drivers.

Keep in mind you can also get the IXL-15 for $199, same as the dayton.
Still for only 100 more, the IXL-18 i hard to beat, 4-5 cubic foot sealed is pretty close to perfect for an 18" .
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post #23 of 34 Old 10-30-2013, 08:35 AM
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Check out Axe Music online for amps. The prices are reasonable there and not much need to cross border shop at their prices. Maybe not the ultimate low price you can find, but very close.

I put the Trio 12 in an 18" cube, dual opposed. It's undersized, but I don't care. Very small. And CSS is a great company to deal with.
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post #24 of 34 Old 10-30-2013, 08:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Danielson99 View Post

There is no reason whatsover in ordering from the USA to Canada. We have our own suppliers right here. We have IST in Manitoba who make great drivers. We have CSS in BC who have everything from just the driver to complete kits with everything you need, including the plans. There is also Solen.ca who carry many of the Dayton Audio drivers as well as many many other brands.

You could build 2 quartet 10's or 12's from CSS and get some great FR in that room. You could also build something based on the IXL 18 which is $300 shipped. No reason to order from the USA at all....

Thanks for reminding me about Solen. I'm sourcing a pair of 10" subs for some folded horns, and it turns out the Dayton DCS 255-4 is a dollar cheaper at Solen. Even more appealing when duty/brokerage fees are factored in.
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post #25 of 34 Old 10-30-2013, 08:47 AM
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This parts express deal is a good one. I have two of the 15's and think they are great! http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?partnumber=300-7094

Add in iNuke3000 and you have quite a combination. Or buy the flat pack here and add your own driver.
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post #26 of 34 Old 10-30-2013, 09:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Paxonator View Post

Sorry for all the trouble I didn't mean for this to get into this kind of debate.

Pretty mild stuff so far. Maybe I could stir them up some more if I insulted Canadian beer wink.gif
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post #27 of 34 Old 10-30-2013, 09:40 AM
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Here is what I did, the total cost was a little more than your current budget, but I can't be happier with the finished product.

- 2x SI 18s = $430
- 2 Sheets of birch ply wood = $100
- Used Behringer EP2500 = $150
- Paint, glue, screws, and misc = $50

Total came out to a litttle over $700. The output and sound quality is amazing.
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post #28 of 34 Old 10-30-2013, 10:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thatsnasty View Post

It's addicting, you may like building this so much you'll want more, haha wink.gif
I'm sure you will be happy with that, Dayton makes quality drivers.

Keep in mind you can also get the IXL-15 for $199, same as the dayton.
Still for only 100 more, the IXL-18 i hard to beat, 4-5 cubic foot sealed is pretty close to perfect for an 18" .

I believe the IXL 15 is out of stock. Pax, you might wanna just stick with a plate amp from CSS. They will even modify it for you depending on what sub you wanna build. The plate amps are silent and will have a HPF built into it for a sealed sub. If you go with an iNuke or EP4000 you get much more power but you'll have to modify the fan or live with the noise.

To keep it small and get great frequency response just build two 18" cubes and put a 12" driver in each.
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post #29 of 34 Old 10-31-2013, 05:47 AM - Thread Starter
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Well diy is looking better and better. So lets say I went with a sealed dayton 15" in a ~4.5 cubic foot sealed box with the 300 watt amp. How low should I expect this setup to go? The two brand name subs can reach down to 18hz.
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post #30 of 34 Old 10-31-2013, 06:00 AM
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Sealed goes down to what ever the amp cut off is. But it's more slopes than flat like ported. If going sealed, you gotta make sure the amp doesn't have a high pass built in like many plate amps do.
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