Qsc PL340 for sub duty? - AVS Forum
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Old 11-01-2013, 06:39 PM - Thread Starter
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Thinking of getting a couple of these to drive some LMS 5400's. There rated at 4000 watts bridged at 4 ohm. I would put one per driver. Was curious if anyone has used them to drive subs, and how they do.

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Old 11-02-2013, 03:55 PM
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I've been running a CX502 (1600 bridged) for some time now with zero complaints- You really cant go wrong with QSC - The Behringers and other amps alot of guys are running are pretty much QSC clones, they just cost less. You will not be disappointed, plus the bonus is that QSC ratings are a  little more accurate IMHO - I seem to recall somewhere I saw  "real world measured power output" for a bunch of the  more common HT amps- one of the forums somewhere.

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Old 11-03-2013, 04:36 PM
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I've "heard" good things about them. They should make some power.

As you probably know, the Ultra's are power hungry critters. They can take 1000watts rms of REAL power for a few seconds without "too" much trouble.
They can take about -6db output from a FP14k all day at just about any frequency; above that power level it starts to get risky...

What are you using right now (if anything)?
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Old 11-03-2013, 09:30 PM - Thread Starter
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I only have the subs so far. I've been waiting to pull the trigger on a amp. I've been doing some research and have narrowed it down to either the QSC pl340 or pl380. Recently have also thought about the RMX 5050, 4050hd. I'm leaning towards the pl line because it's a smaller and lighter amp, plus you can get a cover plate for the gain knobs (I have a 6 month old) but the RMX line isn't out of the question. I like the 340 because it's 4000 watts at 4ohm bridged, were as the 380 is either 2500 wattsx2 at 4ohm (probably not enough power?) or 8000 watts at 4 ohm bridged (most likely way to much power). I can get 2 C-stock (with manufactures warranty) 340's for the price of 1 used 380. To me it makes sense to get 2 340's and have 4000 WPC instead of spending the same amount of coin and having 2500 WPC.

I looked at the crowns but they roll off at 20hz. I'm looking to get below 10hz. I was close to getting a fp14k clone but don't want to risk it, and I heard the marathons have crappy customer service.

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Old 11-04-2013, 08:26 AM
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The PL amps would be great for HT subs; -3 dB at 3 Hz. I was going to get a PL340 for my sub but had to buy a new vehicle so funds dried up and went with a RMX. RMX fan is LOUD.

Current Gear: PJ – BenQ PE7700; Receiver - Onkyo TX-SR805; Blu Ray - OppoBDP 103; Turntable - Dual CS-515 w/ Ortofon Super OM10; Amplifiers - OdysseyKhartago, Adcom GFA555, QSC RMX 1850HD; PEQ - Behringer FBD2496 [Near FieldSub], miniDSP 2×4 [Flanking Subs], REW; Speakers - 4 Pi (w/B&C DE250/JBL2226H) × 3 [LCR], Yamaha Crap × 2 [surrounds], Exodus Audio Maelstrom-X18" sealed sub [near field sub], LAB-12 based ported sub tuned to 22 Hz x2 [flanking subs, XO set at 40 Hz]
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Old 11-04-2013, 09:11 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NWCgrad View Post

The PL amps would be great for HT subs; -3 dB at 3 Hz. I was going to get a PL340 for my sub but had to buy a new vehicle so funds dried up and went with a RMX. RMX fan is LOUD.

I'm thinking it should so fine......-3db at 3hz, 4000 watts @4ohm, only takes up 2 rack spaces, and weighs 20 something pounds, selectable input sensitivity. When I was researching I came across a pro audio site forum and someone said it wasn't good for subs. Said it sounded thin, got me a little concerned because I want a amp that's going to make the LMS's pound! I'm thinking I will get 2 of these......like you said the fan is loud on the RMX, plus it's big and heavy.

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Old 11-05-2013, 06:40 AM
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There's always going to be a different opinion around. Just have to take them in context and quantity. Doubtful there'll ever be a true concensus. Some will say that only "big iron" amps are good for subs and other say differently. Myself I don't see how it much matters as long as it's honest power and you can feed the beast.

Some of the old school big iron amps will win out on the bench if long term, continuous rated power is the comparison. But the newer switching style amps have such high ouput in small packages they were (in general terms) designed to cover the peak demands and lower average, not full continuous rated sine wave output indefinitely.

Just because there is a knob doesn't mean you should turn it.
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Old 11-05-2013, 12:16 PM
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Between the PL340 and RMX5050 I would choose the PL340 for its lower cost and smaller lighter form factor. The fan noise is moot IMO. I have the RMX5050 in an uncovered rack about 10' from me and can only hear it with nothing playing. Once the music or movie is on I never notice the fan noise at all. This is with an unmodified LG clone sitting in the same rack. Even at moderate listening levels the fan noise is not noticeable to me.

All that being said, if it were me, I'd get a pair of Behringer EPX4000 amps for less than half the cost of a single PL340 and replace the fans. Heck you can get four EPX4000 (two spares) for about the cost of a single PL340. Depending on your enclosure size, 4KW may not be enough to fully utilize the potential of the LMS though. I know my RMX5050 will clip before my LMS gets close to full excursion in a 3.5ft^3 sealed enclosure. Another option if you have the $$$$ is to get the PL380 and adjust your gain structure to prevent overdriving the LMS. Finally, if you're not in a hurry, you can also wait until the Behringer iNuke NU12000DSP is released. Depending on how it measures, you would only need one for both your LMS drivers and you get the added benefit of a built in DSP.
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Old 11-05-2013, 12:36 PM - Thread Starter
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I just placed a order for 2 brand new 4050hd's
At 1000 bucks each. They were also selling the 5050 for 1200 bucks, but I didn't think $400 was worth 2000 watts. (1db maybe?)

So you clip the 5050 huh? I plan to build my boxes around 3.5^3 to 4^3.

My dual sealed LMS 5400 Ultra build
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Old 11-05-2013, 12:55 PM
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Originally Posted by SeekingNirvana View Post

So you clip the 5050 huh? I plan to build my boxes around 3.5^3 to 4^3.

Yup. Replaced it with a clone and am happy to be able to drive two LMS to their limits from a single amp. I'm now using the RMX-5050 to drive four Alpine SWR-1522Ds in two dual opposed, sealed 3.5ft^3 boxes.
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Old 11-05-2013, 01:06 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by duc135 View Post

Yup. Replaced it with a clone and am happy to be able to drive two LMS to their limits from a single amp. I'm now using the RMX-5050 to drive four Alpine SWR-1522Ds in two dual opposed, sealed 3.5ft^3 boxes.

No problems with the clone? I was seriously considering getting a clone, in fact I had the payment page open and I backed out. I'm just worried that I would get one that slipped through QC.(if there even is QC) with the QSC I get a 6 year warranty and all that junk.

Doesn't the clone do 4400 watts @4ohm? The 4050hd does 4000, and the 5050 does 5000. How does the clone drive them to there limits?

My dual sealed LMS 5400 Ultra build
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Old 11-05-2013, 01:11 PM
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^ Sometimes you can be smart on accident. wink.giftongue.gif

The justification of the inherent risk absorbed by pursuing the additional scant dbs (that will RARELY be used by the vast majority) of a clone over other $1000 known-quantities with known reliability, warranties, and state side service (as opposed to none at all, I believe) is something I cannot compute. This difference can be further mitigated in scenarios where configs can be wired to 2 ohms and you can extract more power through proven designs while the clone cannot (drive 2 ohm pairs). It's what I did with a Crown xti that puts 1600 aside into 2 ohms where a pair of drivers (4 ohm each) see "just" 800 watts apiece instead of the clone's 1200 per (8 ohms). Hairsplitting in the output dept if there ever was any.

Your assumption of ANY real QC is also wobbly, imo. OOPs, I see you already noted such, sorry. That "junk' you noted on the QSC's is real value my friend, but I know you know that. wink.gif

Great job on them, AFAIC. I'm certain you will be pleased with them.

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Old 11-05-2013, 01:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SeekingNirvana View Post

No problems with the clone? I was seriously considering getting a clone, in fact I had the payment page open and I backed out. I'm just worried that I would get one that slipped through QC.(if there even is QC) with the QSC I get a 6 year warranty and all that junk.

Doesn't the clone do 4400 watts @4ohm? The 4050hd does 4000, and the 5050 does 5000. How does the clone drive them to there limits?

I'm guessing the clones can output more down low than the others can. I don't have the numbers to prove that, but I know I can drive the LMS harder with the clone than I could with either the RMX-5050 or the Behringer EPX4000. All of this and your questions regarding amps in other threads you started were already discussed in the clone thread where you asked pretty much the same questions. Others much more knowledgeable than me have stated the same.

I do understand your reservations about the reliability of the clones and it is well deserved. I just decided to take the plunge since it was considerably cheaper than the real deal and any other option out there at the time. If the Behringer iNuke NU12000 ever sees the light of day there will finally be a contender, but would still not match the clone though.
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Old 11-05-2013, 04:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SeekingNirvana View Post

No problems with the clone? I was seriously considering getting a clone, in fact I had the payment page open and I backed out. I'm just worried that I would get one that slipped through QC.(if there even is QC) with the QSC I get a 6 year warranty and all that junk.

Doesn't the clone do 4400 watts @4ohm? The 4050hd does 4000, and the 5050 does 5000. How does the clone drive them to there limits?

The point was from a single amp.

One FP14000 clone does 4400 x 2 @ 4 ohms. You'd need two 4050s or two 5050s running in bridged mode to be in the same power range as one clone..

Just because there is a knob doesn't mean you should turn it.
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Old 11-05-2013, 05:30 PM - Thread Starter
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I'm guessing the clones can output more down low than the others can. I don't have the numbers to prove that, but I know I can drive the LMS harder with the clone than I could with either the RMX-5050 or the Behringer EPX4000. All of this and your questions regarding amps in other threads you started were already discussed in the clone thread where you asked pretty much the same questions. Others much more knowledgeable than me have stated the same.

I do understand your reservations about the reliability of the clones and it is well deserved. I just decided to take the plunge since it was considerably cheaper than the real deal and any other option out there at the time. If the Behringer iNuke NU12000 ever sees the light of day there will finally be a contender, but would still not match the clone though.

That's correct I did ask all these questions on the clone thread, and started threads asking the same. I wanted to get a broad group to answer them. This is my first go around at DIY and know very little about pro amps. Before I go drop thousands of dollars on amps I want to hear from as many people as possible, not just a small group of clone fan boys.
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The point was from a single amp.

One FP14000 clone does 4400 x 2 @ 4 ohms. You'd need two 4050s or two 5050s running in bridged mode to be in the same power range as one clone..

I must have missed the point.... I have been talking about 2 LMS's each having its own amp. I will be using one 4050hd per sub, so that's close to what a clone does. It's pretty obvious that 1 5050 wouldn't compete with a clone!

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Old 11-06-2013, 12:15 AM
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I use two pl 3602s for my mains and they rock! I know completely diff amp but same power plant model line and they are great products. I'd say underspeced.
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Old 11-06-2013, 08:07 AM
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I had a qsc 4050 for a very short time. It did not seem that much more powerful then a bridged ep2500 . So it was sold for a small profit and the $ went towards a 10q clone.
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Old 11-06-2013, 08:56 AM - Thread Starter
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I had a qsc 4050 for a very short time. It did not seem that much more powerful then a bridged ep2500 . So it was sold for a small profit and the $ went towards a 10q clone.

I have nothing to compare the 4050hd to, so I'm hoping it makes me smile!

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Old 11-06-2013, 09:44 AM
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The QSCs are workhorses. They'll do what they're designed to do, but they are relatively expensive and nothing special IMO. For the price of a single QSC RMX-4050HD you could get 3 EP4000s and replace the fans. This will get you about the same performance at a third the cost and a fraction of the size and weight.
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Old 11-08-2013, 01:44 PM
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The most powerful big-iron amp I've used is an EP4000.

But compared to my Crown iTech and Clone, I would not buy the EP4000 again (yes, even one per sub bridged).

The EP4000 simply doesn't have enough watts, I clipped my constantly, unlike my iTech and Clone.

The iTech is flat to about 7hz. iTech's aren't worth the extra money over a clone IMO.
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Old 11-08-2013, 03:46 PM - Thread Starter
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I looked into the itech's but heard they rolled off at 20hz and there was no way around it. The spec for 4ohm stereo is what I liked about the itech 8000, 4k per channel.

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