Home stereo/ theater set up with 2 15" solo-baric sub woofers.. - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 18 Old 11-02-2013, 01:43 PM - Thread Starter
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Hey everyone,

I came to the forum months ago to get some help with an enclosure design. I wanted to do something with the finished basement space in my home. I mounted a 60" plasma on the wall with all cables hidden. 5.1 theater receiver with 8.5" polk audio speakers in the ceiling, 900+ watt RMS kicker mono amplifier powering 2 15" solo-baric subwoofers. I used a triplite pr 60 power supply to convert 110vac to 13.8 vdc @ 60amps for the car audio amplifier.

I am missing a center channel speaker as that was a bit of an oversight on the project. I have a yamaha in wall center channel speaker in mind. I am going to mount that horizontally in the wall directly underneath the TV, and paint it the same color as the wall. It is very loud and sounds pretty clean too. I watched Oblivion on blu ray and it really feels like the space ship is landing in the basement!!! My wife kept shaking her head to suggest that it is a little ridiculous, all the while I am grinning from ear to ear.. lol

I know that the speakers can get pretty pricey but I feel like these were a good choice for the money. The polk audio sets were around 140 per set on Amazon and sold for more elsewhere. I stayed well clear of the super high dollar stuff, I had a budget to work around. I designed and built the speaker box using solidworks and covered it with vinyl to match the couch. I am very pleased with the turn out.

here is the original post of the speaker box design

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1491173/please-help-with-subwoofer-enclosure-design

here are some pics of the design process and the result.

LEAD Technologies Inc. V1.01LEAD Technologies Inc. V1.01
LEAD Technologies Inc. V1.01









Thanks for checking it out!!
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post #2 of 18 Old 11-02-2013, 01:46 PM - Thread Starter
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And a youtube video walk through.. smile.gif the video sounds like crap, the camera can not replicate the bass but it sounds much better in person. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eMsd1496K90
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post #3 of 18 Old 11-02-2013, 09:45 PM
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that looks fantastic! right according to your plan.

"...heads up, you might want to reduce your volume..." :-)

obviously the sub totally overloads the camera mic...

Listen. It's All Good.
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post #4 of 18 Old 11-02-2013, 10:44 PM
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Wow"! That subs looks great, how low is it tune?
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post #5 of 18 Old 11-03-2013, 05:09 AM - Thread Starter
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Thanks guys. Kicker manual suggests the specs I chose tunes the sub to 32hz. LTD02 simulated the box before I built it, said it would be tuned around 30hz.
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post #6 of 18 Old 11-03-2013, 10:40 PM
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Nice looking build! Very unique and fits in perfectly.

I love solo subs, I've currently got 2 x L7 - 10's in my truck and have a solo x 18 in my car. They can be a little expensive but thankfully I pay my manager friends cost, which is around 1/3 of retail..... Makes it even sweeter! lol

Blasting brown notes for 10 years and counting!

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post #7 of 18 Old 11-04-2013, 06:29 AM
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Tronman, very cool build, thanks for sharing. It turned out nicely.

Tell me, how's the ventilation in the closet? I'd be somewhat concerned about that, any heat from the AVR. I'm guessing you've considered this, all other aspects seem thought out, just inquiring.

Your basement listening room/HT, could really benefit from bass traps. All that bass energy builds up, and bass details can suffer. DIY bass traps are quite easy, and extremely effective .. the result is smoother response and increased punch and clarity.

Simply stacking a thick, floor to ceiling batch of fluffy insulation, and cover it with a fabric grill, etc, would really impact the listening experience. Rockwool Safe-N-Sound from your local hardware store would work too. I'd be glad to help with more details if you're interested, and when the time is right. There's a multitude of effective approaches. Actually, filling the area above the ceiling tiles with fluffy stuff is also quite effective.

The sub project is great, you're well on your way.

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post #8 of 18 Old 11-04-2013, 01:06 PM - Thread Starter
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Thank you, Yea I like the solo-barics as well. I had know idea how they would turn out in the house but I am happy with it. I went with the L3 subs to save a little money. Crazy how much they can mark that stuff up. I bought all this from amazon and it was half of what the local audio stores sold it for.
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post #9 of 18 Old 11-04-2013, 01:19 PM - Thread Starter
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The closet space under the stairs has no ventilation, the good news is I have ran this at a decent volume for probably 6hrs and neither the amp nor the power supply reached higher temps then warm to the touch. My wife threw a birthday party for me a few weeks ago and we left it on for quite a while, I checked it frequently because I was nervous at first about over heating. The basement stays cool and I can defiantly tell that the air in the closet space gets warmer after running for a while, I just make sure its all turned off whenever I leave the basement.. Like check to make sure its off 3 times with an OCD tendency lol.

I would love to have some help improving with the bass traps. I am a noob when it comes to HT, so I haven't even considered it until you mentioned it. I like the idea of stuffing the celling with poly fill and the corner traps from floor to celling. I could even cover those with a fabric to match the wall paint. I am attaching a picture of the layout, I placed some corner traps in the drawing, just trying to get an idea of what I need. Is this similar to what you said + stuff the celling? Thanks for the help
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post #10 of 18 Old 11-04-2013, 03:28 PM
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I'm not sure how much space you have above the ceiling, but filling it with as much fluffy type insulation would be great. You'd essentially end up with a rigid faced bass trap, a good scenario. I'd pursue the ceiling regardless what you do elsewhere, it should be noticeably effective.

Next, the corners. Remember, not just the corners you included (those are great), but the ceiling wall junctions too.

There's tons out there on bass trapping, here's some here, and here. Also, here's another example.

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post #11 of 18 Old 11-05-2013, 06:52 PM
 
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With regards to the DIY bass traps made from the pink fluffy stuff stacked in the corners, does it matter what kind of fabric you cover it with? Will any of the standard fabrics from some place like Hobby Lobby work? I have read that it is a good idea to put some type of plastic sheeting over the front to help not absorb too much of the high frequencies. Is that a real concern, and if so, what type of plastic should be used?
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post #12 of 18 Old 11-06-2013, 08:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Martycool007 View Post

With regards to the DIY bass traps made from the pink fluffy stuff stacked in the corners, does it matter what kind of fabric you cover it with? Will any of the standard fabrics from some place like Hobby Lobby work? I have read that it is a good idea to put some type of plastic sheeting over the front to help not absorb too much of the high frequencies. Is that a real concern, and if so, what type of plastic should be used?

For starters, many prefer to face the trapping/fiberglass with covering for either aesthetic or environmental reasons. One can also place polyfill in front of the fluffy stuff to help contain the fibers if you want to, then fabric in front of that.

Now, nearly all HTs need more damping/bass trapping in the LF, to lower the LF decay times. Essentially, as much as you can fit into your room is welcome to address the decay throughout the bass range. However, you may get to a point where you're over-deadening the MF and HF, diminishing liveliness .. but it's subjective, as many prefer it. But, if you want selective absorption, you can face the trap in a variety of methods; Paper facing, like a thicker craft paper, ... will start to reflect around 1khz. Next up one could use pool liner type product, which begins returning around 500hz. Even lower one could use 1/2lb mass loaded vinyl (MVL), which returns beginning around 250hz.

In most instances, I'd suggest full spectrum, broadband absorption from the listener forward. Behind the listener, perhaps one may pursue some more selective absorption, to retain the MF/HF, yet damp as much LF as possible. Typically, from the listening position, to the front wall, if you absorb, you absorb it all. Otherwise, you're merely EQ'ing the reflection. So, if you wish to address the sidewall lateral reflected energy with absorption, you employ thick and effective panels.

One great aspect about room treatment, diy solutions can often be extraordinarily inexpensive, relative to the commercial solutions out there.

Briefly,
Bass traps and thicknesses aren't as intuitive as one may think. Too thick and one begins to enter into an area of diminishing returns. So, I often suggest a rule of thumb relative to how much space you can forfeit to the treatment. If you have around 4" of space to use, use rigid 703 or equivalent product. From around 6"-9", I suggest Safe-N-Sound Rockwool product. If you have more space than that, I suggest going with fluffy stuff. Now, that said, the fluffy does require being mindful of not over-compressing. Some plastic bird netting, or similar .. every so often will help it not to compress too much.

Some use rigid, superchunk style, stacking triangles of rigid in the corners .. floor to ceiling. This works fine, albeit more expensive. There's so many approaches to bass trapping, some more effective than others. But a quick search would turn up countless examples. The Safe-N-sound stuff is a great compromise, as it's stays together self supporting etc, stack it up and make it thick.

I've no experience with the newer cotton or denim material, recycled stuff. Nor am I aware of how effective it is, beyond the potentially dubious mfr claims, just don't know.

We're discussing bass traps, but for treatments for reflections, I'd likely utilize 4" minimum rigid, spaced 4" off the boundary be it the wall or ceiling.

Treatments have the capability to absolutely transform the sound of the room. The bang for the buck is off the chart.


I hope this helps

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post #13 of 18 Old 11-06-2013, 08:53 AM
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putting the absorption on the wall is in a pressure zone and will absorb little of the energy. best to be out from the wall into the velocity zone of the wave that you are trying to absorb. about 1/4 wavelength.

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post #14 of 18 Old 11-06-2013, 09:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LTD02 View Post

putting the absorption on the wall is in a pressure zone and will absorb little of the energy. best to be out from the wall into the velocity zone of the wave that you are trying to absorb. about 1/4 wavelength.

Sure, no argument there.


However the practicality of max effectiveness 1/4 wave placement is an issue, and often preclude such placement.
~7' is the approx. 1/4 wave for 40hz. Few of us can employ velocity based absorption 7' off the boundary.

That said, one can elicit benefits that low from bass trapping as I stated in my post above. Even though one's well away from the max particle velocity effectiveness 1/4 wave dimension, the benefits are still enjoyed. I'd think the lossy, diaphragmatic pressure based absorption one gets from typical stud/sheetrock, ceiling joist/sheetrock construction, combined with the velocity based fiberglass methods I suggested above, work in concert nicely to help tame LF decay and smooth FR.

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post #15 of 18 Old 11-07-2013, 06:39 AM
 
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I have finished up some of the double stacked 2" OC703, (4" total) with some rather long fish eye hooks that I can use to place them 4" off the walls that they will be mounted to. I plan to put two 2' by 4' panels on each side wall, and then two 4' by 6' on the ceiling, as well as two 4' by 6' on the front wall. Still deciding on what I want to do for the rear wall and the corners. I was thinking of some diffusion panels on the rear wall, and triangular pink fluffy stuff stacked from floor to ceiling in the corners.

I don't have any knowledge of designing or building diffusion panels, but I am hesitant on adding any more absorbing panels as I don't want a completely dead room. Any suggestions? Perhaps I would be better served by not absorbing the ceiling, just not sure....
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post #16 of 18 Old 11-07-2013, 11:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Martycool007 View Post

I have finished up some of the double stacked 2" OC703, (4" total) with some rather long fish eye hooks that I can use to place them 4" off the walls that they will be mounted to. I plan to put two 2' by 4' panels on each side wall, and then two 4' by 6' on the ceiling, as well as two 4' by 6' on the front wall. Still deciding on what I want to do for the rear wall and the corners. I was thinking of some diffusion panels on the rear wall, and triangular pink fluffy stuff stacked from floor to ceiling in the corners.

I don't have any knowledge of designing or building diffusion panels, but I am hesitant on adding any more absorbing panels as I don't want a completely dead room. Any suggestions? Perhaps I would be better served by not absorbing the ceiling, just not sure....

The ceiling, IMO, is a not miss proposition. All gain, no diminishing spaciousness etc. I'm a advocate of treating the ceiling, between the listeners and the mains, in essentially most every residential HT room I've seen.

Marty, if all you have is rigid, 703, for the corners, you can straddle the airspace with 4" of 703, works effectively.



Or, stack them and make huge traps, much larger than most make them. Instead of 34" wide, 48" wide;


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post #17 of 18 Old 11-07-2013, 03:48 PM
 
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Sorry if I wasn't clear, meant to say that I would be using stacked pink fluffy stuff in the corners. No way I could do stacked oc703, as that would get expensive!
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post #18 of 18 Old 11-08-2013, 04:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FOH View Post

The ceiling, IMO, is a not miss proposition. All gain, no diminishing spaciousness etc. I'm a advocate of treating the ceiling, between the listeners and the mains, in essentially most every residential HT room I've seen.

Marty, if all you have is rigid, 703, for the corners, you can straddle the airspace with 4" of 703, works effectively.

[IMG]picture 1[/IMG]

Or, stack them and make huge traps, much larger than most make them. Instead of 34" wide, 48" wide;

[IMG]picture 2[/IMG]

FOH, question for you.

So, in picture 1 you have a single sheet of OC703 straddling the corner with airspace behind it. Is that really effective compared to picture 2, where you have stacked triangles of OC703 completely filling the corner? It seems like it would be a much cheaper option, but I see a lot more people making the stacked traps. I'm just trying to make sure there isn't something they know that I don't.
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