Cinemar Theater - Dual Dayton RSS460HO 18" Flat Pack Build - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 33 Old 11-05-2013, 02:56 PM - Thread Starter
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Hi Everyone.

Before I dive into the nitty gritty details of my first DIY sub build.

I thought I'd reference my original build thread where I've also documented the sub portion of the build:
http://www.avsforum.com/t/1208912/the-cinemar-home-theater-construction-thread

The actual build with lots of photos are below.
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post #2 of 33 Old 11-05-2013, 02:57 PM - Thread Starter
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Here's my adventures in building two sealed 4 cu ft DIY Flat Packs with the Dayton Audio RSS460HO-4 18" Reference HO Subwoofer 4 ohm subwoofers. As of this writing I completely finished one of them. I'm a complete novice in this area...so be gentle.

2' clamps were all that I would have needed for this project instead of 3' clamps.

Here's a quick parts list for the project:
Dayton Audio 18" Reference Series HO Subwoofer and Cabinet Package
http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=300-7094

Dewalt 3-Amp Orbital Power Sander
http://www.lowes.com/pd_117946-70-D26453K_0__?productId=1005793&Ntt=orbital+sander&pl=1&currentURL=%3FNtt%3Dorbital%2Bsander&facetInfo=

BIN Primer (tinted gray or as dark as possible)
http://www.menards.com/main/building-materials/drywall/primers-sealers/bin-primer/p-1963340-c-8028.htm

Sandblaster Premium Abrasive (For baffle area and edges)
http://www.menards.com/main/paint/sandpaper-respirators/sanding-blocks-sponges/sandblaster-trade-premium-abrasive/p-1419949-c-8193.htm

TiteBond II
http://www.menards.com/main/home-decor/cter
ts/glue/wood-glue/titebond-ii-premium-wood-glue-32-ounce/p-1956875-c-7176.htm

Rust-Oleum Flat back Spray Paint
http://www.menards.com/main/home-decor/crafts/spray-paint/all-purpose/rust-oleum-painters-touch-ultra-cover-2x-spray-flat-black/p-1956007-c-8050.htm

Truck Bed Boating
http://www.menards.com/main/home-decor/crafts/spray-paint/automotive/rust-oleum-truck-bed-coating/p-1963108-c-8043.htm

MH Ready Patch
http://www.menards.com/main/building-materials/drywall/patching-repair/lightweight-spackling/ready-patch/p-1956277-c-8201.htm

1/4"-20 Press in Wood Inserts x 8
http://www.menards.com/main/tools-hardware/fasteners/nuts/miscellaneous/1-4-20-press-in-wood-insert-1-pcs/p-1445518-c-8921.htm

1/4"-20 x 1-1/2" Socket Cap Screws x 8
http://www.menards.com/main/building-materials/drywall/screws/socket-cap/1-4-20-x-1-1-2-socket-cap-screws-1-pcs/p-1445723-c-8937.htm

1/4" Flat Washer - 18 PC
http://www.menards.com/main/tools-hardware/fasteners/washers/flat/1-4-flat-washer-18pc/p-1827816-c-8945.htm

Puddy Knife
http://www.menards.com/main/paint/painting-tools/paint-knives/purdy-premium-flex-putty-knife-with-hammer-head/p-1496322-c-8082.htm

3M Super 77 Spray Adhesive
http://www.menards.com/main/paint/adhesives-tape/spray-adhesives/3m-trade-super-77-spray-adhesive/p-1420001-c-7923.htm

Acousta-Stuf Polyfill Speaker Cabinet Damping Material 5 lb
http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?partnumber=260-330

Gold 12 AWG 1/4" Female Disconnect 5 Pair
http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=095-810

Square Speaker Terminal Cup 4" Gold Banana Binding Post
http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=260-284

3" Hole Saw
http://www.menards.com/main/tools-hardware/power-tool-accessories/hole-saws/3-advanced-edge-hole-saw/p-1735683-c-10085.htm

DIYSoundGroup Flat Packs all boxed up. TIP: Save the boxes. They will come in handy during spray painting:
IMG_3263_small_b.jpg


Really packaged well...no damage to any of the parts
IMG_3264_small_b.jpg


I started by laying out all the pieces onto a table
IMG_3265_small_b.jpg


I did a dry fit test to see how things came together.
IMG_3269_small_b.jpg

IMG_3270_small_b.jpg

IMG_3271_small_b.jpg

IMG_3272_small_b.jpg

IMG_3273_small_b.jpg

IMG_3276_small_b.jpg

IMG_3277_small_b.jpg

Then I brushed off all the edges and tops/bottoms of the pieces to get all the dust off of them
IMG_3278_small_b.jpg

Here's the process of gluing (Titebond II) and assembling the flat packs.
IMG_3279_small_b.jpg

IMG_3280_small_b.jpg

IMG_3281_small_b.jpg

IMG_3282_small_b.jpg

I used this rafter angle square to help make sure everything was perpendicular.
IMG_3285_small_b.jpg

IMG_3286_small_b.jpg

IMG_3289_small_b.jpg

IMG_3290_small_b.jpg

I sanded the edges say they were completely flush:
IMG_3318_small_b.jpg

IMG_3291_small_b.jpg

IMG_3293_small_b.jpg

I sanded smooth the inner edge where the driver sits:
IMG_3294_small_b.jpg

Next, I dry fit the very top piece and clamped it down tight:
IMG_3324_small_b.jpg

I marked the center so I could get the driver screws to be aligned with the center as well.
IMG_3321_small_b.jpg

And also drew a straight edge to make sure when I reassemble that the two top pieces line up:
IMG_3325_small_b.jpg

Insert the driver:
IMG_3329_small_b.jpg

Predrill the holes for the driver through both top pieces. I used this rafter angle square to help make sure my holes were perpendicular to the top. A variable speed drill at a slow speed is all you need:
IMG_3330_small_b.jpg

I used these two 1/4" bits. The one on the right allow me to find a perfect center to start with. So I just started with that bit, then switched to the other since it worked much better on the MDF:
IMG_3337_small_b.jpg

Then I threaded the socket head cap screws just to ensure I had it right:
IMG_3339_small_b.jpg

IMG_3340_small_b.jpg

IMG_3341_small_b.jpg

I made sure to mark the TOP since you could possibly rotate the piece and not get perfect alignment. I'd recommend marking South, East, West and North as well:
IMG_3343_small_b.jpg

Here's a good way to remove the driver by sliding the top boards:
IMG_3412_small_b.jpg


Here's my make shift stop for my 3/8" drill bit:
IMG_3340_small_b.jpg

I drilled on the under side of square edged top piece again using the rafter angle square to make sure I was drilling straight and then only went in about a 1/2":
IMG_3347_small_b.jpg

See - straight!
IMG_3348_small_b.jpg

I then threaded some of the socket head cap screws to lock the two top pieces in place:
IMG_3349_small_b.jpg

I the put on a little Titebond II wood glue on the Press In Wood Insert:
IMG_3351_small_b.jpg

I cleaned out the bottom of the 3/8" holes:
IMG_3364_small_b.jpg

Make sure the Press in Wood Insert is pointed in the right direction and put a 1/4" washer between the socket head cap screw and the mdf. Then slowly start turning. Try to keep the sharp edges of the insert away from the edge. I did notice the mdf pushing out a tiny bit.
IMG_3361_small_b.jpg

When this did happen, I put some extra glue around where it pushed out:
IMG_3416_small_b.jpg

Here's what it looks like when the inserts are completely done:
IMG_3374_small_b.jpg

I caulked the inside corners:
IMG_3387_small_b.jpg


Finish gluing the top square edged piece:
IMG_3379_small_b.jpg

IMG_3380_small_b.jpg

Glue the top and just watch out for the screw insert areas:
IMG_3381_small_b.jpg

IMG_3382_small_b.jpg

Start tightening all the socket head cap screws:
IMG_3383_small_b.jpg

IMG_3385_small_b.jpg

After drying, I marked the center area of the 3" hole for the speaker terminals. I debated going with the SpeakOns, but I really liked that I could get these tighter to the wall if I needed to:
IMG_3389_small_b.jpg

IMG_3393_small_b.jpg

IMG_3395_small_b.jpg

Great way to get the terminal square with the edge of the speaker when the cabinet is actually finished:
IMG_3401_small_b.jpg

Here are the inside terminal connections that I crimped on:
IMG_3403_small_b.jpg

Next it was time to install the PolyFill using 3M Super 77 spray. I used about .75 lb per cu foot.
IMG_3404_small_b.jpg

I rounded all the edges to 1/2" and sanded smooth down to 220 using an orbital sander. I used a 320 grit sanding sponge pad for the rounded edges.
IMG_3420_small_b.jpg

IMG_3421_small_b.jpg

Primed using BIN Zinnser:
IMG_3428_small_b.jpg

I wasn't happy with the edges so I used some wood glue. I needed a new batch of MH Ready Patch otherwise I would have used that instead:
IMG_3431_small_b.jpg

Sanded smooth in between 2-3 coats of primer:
IMG_3432_small_b.jpg


Ready for spray paint:
IMG_3449_small_b.jpg

Sprayed two coats of Rustoleum Flat Black all at once. It took 1 full can:
IMG_3452_small_b.jpg

IMG_3455_small_b.jpg

Then waited 30 minutes and inserted 1/4" dowels to plug the speaker screw holes from being filled in with the Bed Liner spray:
IMG_3457_small_b.jpg

Then sprayed the 2 coats of Rustoleum bed liner spray - I put some foam on a 5 gallon bucket and set the cabinet on top of it. It took 1 full can:
IMG_3461_small_b.jpg

IMG_3462_small_b.jpg

IMG_3485_small_b.jpg

I waited several hours and then flipped the cabinet to finish the bottom. I set it over the top of the 5 gallon bucket and grabbing the framing inside the cabinet and the 3" center hole:
IMG_3489_small_b.jpg

IMG_3493_small_b.jpg

The installed the speaker terminals with screws:
IMG_3500_small_b.jpg

IMG_3502_small_b.jpg

IMG_3504_small_b.jpg

Filled .75 lbs of Polyfill per cubic foot so 3 lbs for this 4 cubic foot cabinet:
IMG_3509_small_b.jpg

Placing the heavy driver onto the cabinet and lining up the holes was not difficult at all when I used one 1/4" dowel as my guide to set the driver over:
IMG_3513_small_b.jpg

IMG_3515_small_b.jpg

The finished product:
IMG_3517_small_b.jpg

IMG_3520_small_b.jpg

I'm really satisfied with the Rustoleum Spray Bed Liner product combined with the first two coats of Flat Black. It looks very similar to an older Sony subwoofer I have...although rougher. I called up Linex and they could have sprayed each one for $60 each. Unfortunately, I had already primed the cabinet, and they said I would have to wait 30 days for the primer to cure. I think I might have preferred to go the Linex route for simplicity and no mess. The spray mist got everywhere in the garage. The Linex spray would be tougher but probably not quite as attractive as the Rustoleum bed liner.

I'll be trying out the Behringer EP4000 to power both subs:
IMG_3375_small_b.jpg
LTD02 and shadyJ like this.
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post #3 of 33 Old 11-05-2013, 03:13 PM
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Excellent work, Mario! Great job, especially for your first DIY.

Fire em up!

My Dual 18" LLT subs 120dB down to 10hz

 

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post #4 of 33 Old 11-05-2013, 03:18 PM
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Yep. Very nice. Good detail with the pictures as well. What will you power them with?

Clearly, I'm a man of action - just give me a few minutes to think about it.
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post #5 of 33 Old 11-05-2013, 05:13 PM
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They look really good. There is a slightly easier way to assemble those, but in the end your enclosures look great, so no problem. I made up a diagram that can be downloaded on the PE page where you order the box by itself. I've never checked to see if they have a link on the product page for the 'combo' package.
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post #6 of 33 Old 11-05-2013, 07:58 PM
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Great job! Hoping to hear what you think and what you'll use to power!

I'm inspired to follow your footsteps..........biggrin.gif
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post #7 of 33 Old 11-06-2013, 03:15 AM
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The flat-pack looks like it was packaged well and I'm impressed with how easy it makes assembling an enclosure. You did a great job on the finish for the money you spent. Hopefully the speakon insert is air tight.
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post #8 of 33 Old 11-06-2013, 05:28 AM
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Excellent job in presenting your project, putting it together, and finishing work.. very nice!

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post #9 of 33 Old 11-06-2013, 08:26 AM
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Very nice job, I'm quite impressed how well they turned out! A lot better than my own flat pack build. biggrin.gif

By the way, what type of bit is the one you used for the centering of the bolt holes? I'm interested in finding something like that to use on my next project. smile.gif
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post #10 of 33 Old 11-06-2013, 08:46 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott Simonian View Post

Excellent work, Mario! Great job, especially for your first DIY.

Fire em up!

Thanks Scott. Appreciate it.
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post #11 of 33 Old 11-06-2013, 08:46 AM - Thread Starter
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Yep. Very nice. Good detail with the pictures as well. What will you power them with?


Thanks. I'm using the Behringer EP4000 to power them both.
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post #12 of 33 Old 11-06-2013, 08:48 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Erich H View Post

They look really good. There is a slightly easier way to assemble those, but in the end your enclosures look great, so no problem. I made up a diagram that can be downloaded on the PE page where you order the box by itself. I've never checked to see if they have a link on the product page for the 'combo' package.

Thanks Erich. I'll have to check it out. Not sure how I could have done it any differently though.

BTW, did you get my email regarding the incorrect size of the sub on your website?

The flat packs were just what I needed to decide to push forward with this sub build finally. Major time saver!
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post #13 of 33 Old 11-06-2013, 08:49 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hoodcom View Post

Very nice job, I'm quite impressed how well they turned out! A lot better than my own flat pack build. biggrin.gif

By the way, what type of bit is the one you used for the centering of the bolt holes? I'm interested in finding something like that to use on my next project. smile.gif

The second one definitely went together a little quicker since you gain a little knowledge along the way. smile.gif

I've seen them named dowel drill bits and brad drill bits:
http://www.menards.com/main/tools-hardware/power-tool-accessories/drill-bits/1-4-brad-point-bit/p-1461482-c-10079.htm
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post #14 of 33 Old 11-06-2013, 09:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mcascio View Post

The second one definitely went together a little quicker since you gain a little knowledge along the way. smile.gif

I've seen them named dowel drill bits and brad drill bits:
http://www.menards.com/main/tools-hardware/power-tool-accessories/drill-bits/1-4-brad-point-bit/p-1461482-c-10079.htm

I'd imagine so. smile.gif I used screws on mine when I glued and fastened it together. If I were to do it again, I would have been more patient and glued it all together like you did with yours. wink.gif

I just wanted to get to finally hear my Dayton, and I'm very pleased. I hope you'll be enjoying yours. smile.gif


Cool, Thank You very much for that information!
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post #15 of 33 Old 11-06-2013, 07:51 PM
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Thanks Erich. I'll have to check it out. Not sure how I could have done it any differently though.

BTW, did you get my email regarding the incorrect size of the sub on your website?

The flat packs were just what I needed to decide to push forward with this sub build finally. Major time saver!

Which size is showing up wrong?


When you assemble the box, this is the easiest method:

Glue braces on the rear panel.
Glue top and bottom to the rear panel.
Glue on one side only.
Glue on the inner baffle.
Glue on the other side panel.
Then glue on the outer baffle.


If you glue on both sides before that inner baffle, it's a little harder getting that inner baffle in without a good deal of glue being squished out as it slides in.

But no big deal, you got it done and it looks great.

I'm glad to see the box made it to you okay because it looks like the shipping company dropped it a few times. Not good with a 67lbd package of wood. rolleyes.gif Those pallet corner protectors I use sure do save a lot of flat packs.
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post #16 of 33 Old 11-07-2013, 02:01 AM
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bravo! and...FANTASTIC write up!

Listen. It's All Good.
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Very nice job.

I thought poly fill wasn't wanted for these flat packs?

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 4
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So how does it sound? Are you going to get any EQ devise to boost the bottom end?
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post #19 of 33 Old 11-07-2013, 06:54 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Erich H View Post

Which size is showing up wrong?


When you assemble the box, this is the easiest method:

Glue braces on the rear panel.
Glue top and bottom to the rear panel.
Glue on one side only.
Glue on the inner baffle.
Glue on the other side panel.
Then glue on the outer baffle.


If you glue on both sides before that inner baffle, it's a little harder getting that inner baffle in without a good deal of glue being squished out as it slides in.

But no big deal, you got it done and it looks great.

I'm glad to see the box made it to you okay because it looks like the shipping company dropped it a few times. Not good with a 67lbd package of wood. rolleyes.gif Those pallet corner protectors I use sure do save a lot of flat packs.

Hi Erich,

The 4.0 Cu Ft flat packs finished assembly are really 23.5" tall and not 23". I had planned for 23" plus a 1/2" for the rubber feet to fit inside the opening of my front cabinets. I have an opening of 23.75" which is how I discovered it being off. My plan now is to just slide the subwoofer in, then slide the rubber feet under the cabinet to prevent it from moving around inside there. Once I get past the opening I have a little more space vertically. WIth the feet on, it'll be physically impossible to squeeze it in unfortunately.

Thanks for the details on the assembly. There was a lot of glue being squished out. So the order change probably would have helped. Although, being that I used the Press In Wood Inserts, I needed to remove the inner baffle to drill the 3/8" hole. I guess I could have dry fitted and clamped though.

The boxes do look like the took some dings on the corners...but the content inside held up great.
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post #20 of 33 Old 11-07-2013, 06:56 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sslv2pwned View Post

Very nice job.

I thought poly fill wasn't wanted for these flat packs?

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 4

I wasn't aware of this...my first subwoofer build. But I thought that it was helpful to add it. Perhaps other experts can chime in. I'm using Acousta-Stuff from parts-express.
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post #21 of 33 Old 11-07-2013, 07:00 AM - Thread Starter
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So how does it sound? Are you going to get any EQ devise to boost the bottom end?

They sound great. Upon initial testing, I don't think they are digging as low as my HSU VTF-15, but my goal was to fill in the nulls in the room with more subwoofers. The whole room shakes when my VTF-15 digs that low already, so I wasn't trying to add to that.

I've got a total of 4 subs now, the other one is an M&K MX-350. All the subs together sound great. I still need to set my levels on the EP4000 as well as re-run Audyssey. I'm waiting on a USB mic as well.

I've yet to research getting any EQ devices to boost the bottom end. Is that the only advantage of adding something like a miniDSP? I'm green in this area too!
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post #22 of 33 Old 11-07-2013, 07:00 AM - Thread Starter
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bravo! and...FANTASTIC write up!

Thanks LTD02!
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post #23 of 33 Old 11-07-2013, 11:24 AM
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"I wasn't aware of this...my first subwoofer build. But I thought that it was helpful to add it. Perhaps other experts can chime in. I'm using Acousta-Stuff from parts-express."

ricci did a good test and writeup on the topic here: http://www.data-bass.com/data?page=content&id=79

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post #24 of 33 Old 11-07-2013, 11:51 AM
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add a '9' to the end of your link, LTD02 smile.gif

And the TL:DR (though everyone should read!):
Quote:
Overall, stuffing or damping the inside of a subwoofer’s enclosure is generally a good idea to prevent the internal reflections inside of the enclosure from bouncing around and coloring the response and sound. If you are looking for the utmost in uncolored and well-damped sound or if you intend to use the system extra high in frequency up into the lower midrange, it is recommended. If you are trying to be as absolutely loud and efficient as possible, then leave it out.

In general, there is probably a sweet spot for most systems where the system's major response issues are cleaned up and damped, but further addition of material will only serve to further decrease efficiency. Unfortunately, finding this sweet spot probably involves trial and error or other testing.
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post #25 of 33 Old 01-04-2014, 10:47 PM
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bump for best write up ever.
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post #26 of 33 Old 01-04-2014, 11:00 PM
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bump for best write up ever.

Agreed! Lots of good information.

I'm curious if an EQ was ever added to bring up the low end to really make them shine.
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post #27 of 33 Old 01-05-2014, 10:08 AM - Thread Starter
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Thanks guys.

Erich,

I haven't done anything with EQ. I'm new to that whole arena as well. Any good references you could point me to for just getting started?

Hopefully someone with a similar setup has already documented the steps.

I have a total of four subs now. The two I just built and the HSU-VTF15h and an M&K 350. I believe I'll just be eqing the Dayton's right?
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post #28 of 33 Old 04-30-2014, 01:37 PM
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Originally Posted by mcascio View Post

Thanks guys.

Erich,

I haven't done anything with EQ. I'm new to that whole arena as well. Any good references you could point me to for just getting started?

Hopefully someone with a similar setup has already documented the steps.

I have a total of four subs now. The two I just built and the HSU-VTF15h and an M&K 350. I believe I'll just be eqing the Dayton's right?

Did you ever go down this road ? If so, I'd be curious as to what you did.

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post #29 of 33 Old 04-30-2014, 01:58 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Mfusick View Post

Did you ever go down this road ? If so, I'd be curious as to what you did.

No. I never looked into next steps. Let me know if you decide to tackle it so I can learn as you go. smile.gif
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post #30 of 33 Old 04-30-2014, 07:52 PM
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TBH easiest way to EQ is to get something like the miniDSP if you don't already have a DSP built into the amp

then you need a measurement mic and some EQ software

i did my 2 sealed 18s with a MiniDSP and an Omnimic
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