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post #1 of 39 Old 11-11-2013, 01:00 PM - Thread Starter
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I'm starting a DYI speaker project and during my typical internet scouring, I came across active crossovers. The one in particular was a plate amp system 400w 2. I have no experience with this, Even though this subject has probably been discussed a few times on this site, I would like to ask about it again. I want to build a 2.5 tower using Usher 8945As and Vita XT25 tweeters. I'm kind of interested in the active crossover plate because of its simplicity. I am most worried about getting a set of passive crossovers right the first time. From what I read, thats the hardest part. anyway any opinions or experience would really help. Thanks.
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post #2 of 39 Old 11-11-2013, 01:30 PM
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Originally Posted by mike47 View Post

I'm starting a DYI speaker project and during my typical internet scouring, I came across active crossovers. The one in particular was a plate amp system 400w 2. I have no experience with this, Even though this subject has probably been discussed a few times on this site, I would like to ask about it again. I want to build a 2.5 tower using Usher 8945As and Vita XT25 tweeters. I'm kind of interested in the active crossover plate because of its simplicity. I am most worried about getting a set of passive crossovers right the first time. From what I read, thats the hardest part. anyway any opinions or experience would really help. Thanks.

With no details who can tell what equipment you are talking about.

Among plate amps with DSPs, the ones from MiniDSP seem to be the most interesting of those that I know about:

http://www.minidsp.com/products/plate-amplifiers
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post #3 of 39 Old 11-11-2013, 01:39 PM - Thread Starter
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With no details who can tell what equipment you are talking about.

Among plate amps with DSPs, the ones from MiniDSP seem to be the most interesting of those that I know about:

http://www.minidsp.com/products/plate-amplifiers

Details are scarce right now. I'm just starting with some research when I ran across the active/Xover thing. I am trying to get a plan together before making any purchases. I didnt realize at first how involved building a pair of speakers was. So now I'm moving foward slowly. Thats why my question was so vague. I figured the decision between passive and active x0vers was something that I need to decide up front.


http://www.madisoundspeakerstore.com/hypex-amplifiers/hypex-psc2.400-dsp-active-amplifier/
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post #4 of 39 Old 11-11-2013, 05:01 PM
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First, active XO has some simplicities over passive design, but all the same physics principles apply. The acoustic properties of the speakers still have to work. And that requires knowledge of XO design.

Second, 2.5 way using an 2 channel plate amp won't work. Unless you combine it with active components or something.

Third, I'm not sure that driver choice is going to work out so well.
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post #5 of 39 Old 11-12-2013, 03:14 AM - Thread Starter
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First, active XO has some simplicities over passive design, but all the same physics principles apply. The acoustic properties of the speakers still have to work. And that requires knowledge of XO design.

Second, 2.5 way using an 2 channel plate amp won't work. Unless you combine it with active components or something.

Third, I'm not sure that driver choice is going to work out so well.

First, I made a mistake, I want to do a 2-way system using one tweeter and two woofers, sorry, I got my terminology wrong.


Second, the drivers seem very popular and get great reviews, why do you think they wont work out well?
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post #6 of 39 Old 11-12-2013, 04:15 AM
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The problem is that you have to have knowledge of crossover design for both active and passive, which I am assuming you do not have. Your best bet is to find an existing design to copy.

Although, generally, if setup correctly, active crossovers have some pretty nice advantages over passive crossovers.
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post #7 of 39 Old 11-12-2013, 04:36 AM
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I love active crossovers, and would never go back to passives.
I don't have experience with plate amps with in built active crossovers, but I'm sure they're available...

The challenge with any crossover, active or passive, is to get the acoustic crossover response (ie the speaker plus the crossover response) to match your target.

This IMHO is much easier to do with an active crossover, because you have better (and cheaper) control over the slope and the phase response with an active crossover.

The industry standard in pro analog active crossovers is 24dB per octave Linkwitz Riley - the outputs are 24dB down 1 octave away from the Xover point, and the outputs are in phase (electrically, not necessarily acoustically) at all frequencies.

If you choose your Xover points at least an octave away from each drivers' rolloff (so you need each driver to have lots of capable frequency response overlap with the next driver), you'll get close to an acoustic sum of the drivers' being accurate in both amplitude and phase.

Doing this with a passive crossover is very expensive, and to do it well in DIY requires measuring driver parameters and winding inductors by hand etc etc.

DSP active crossovers offer much steeper slopes (than 24dB per octave), and features such as linear phase and time alignment.
With a steeper slope you can have less overlap between each drivers' capability and still get an acoustic sum close to your goal
You can't do that with passive crossovers.

The downside/challenges with active crossovers include:
- additional amplifiers
- dealing with turn on/turn off thumps hurting your delicate drivers (especially tweeters), as your amps are connected directly to your drivers
- DSP Xovers add another potential A/D, D/A conversion - less of an issue if you use a digital source and stay in the digital domain until you get to your amps

good luck with your project

cheers
Mike
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post #8 of 39 Old 11-12-2013, 07:49 AM
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Originally Posted by mike47 View Post

I'm starting a DYI speaker project and during my typical internet scouring, I came across active crossovers. The one in particular was a plate amp system 400w 2. I have no experience with this, Even though this subject has probably been discussed a few times on this site, I would like to ask about it again. I want to build a 2.5 tower using Usher 8945As and Vita XT25 tweeters. I'm kind of interested in the active crossover plate because of its simplicity. I am most worried about getting a set of passive crossovers right the first time. From what I read, thats the hardest part. anyway any opinions or experience would really help. Thanks.

Here's some light reading:

http://www.amazon.com/Loudspeaker-Design-Cookbook-Vance-Dickason/dp/1882580109
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post #9 of 39 Old 11-12-2013, 08:12 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by arnyk View Post

Here's some light reading:

http://www.amazon.com/Loudspeaker-Design-Cookbook-Vance-Dickason/dp/1882580109

Thats exactly what i'm gonna do. I want a good understanding of the whole process BEFORE I spend any money. Anymore suggested reading?
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post #10 of 39 Old 11-12-2013, 08:47 AM
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Linkwitz's site for free reading.

That combo won't work great because there will be strain on the tweeter or woofer breakup depending on the XO point and thee won't be a dispersion match with the woofers and tweeter. And going 2 way means there will be vertical dispersion issues unless going MTM. They are good drivers, but a mid in between would help.

BTW, I hear a lot of people whine that the xt25 needs to be crossed very high because of distortion. They get that from Zaph's testing and comments about it. But they've usually misunderstood zaph and I don't agree with them. How low it goes is dependent on more than just some distortion.
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post #11 of 39 Old 11-12-2013, 09:50 AM - Thread Starter
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Linkwitz's site for free reading.

That combo won't work great because there will be strain on the tweeter or woofer breakup depending on the XO point and thee won't be a dispersion match with the woofers and tweeter. And going 2 way means there will be vertical dispersion issues unless going MTM. They are good drivers, but a mid in between would help.

BTW, I hear a lot of people whine that the xt25 needs to be crossed very high because of distortion. They get that from Zaph's testing and comments about it. But they've usually misunderstood zaph and I don't agree with them. How low it goes is dependent on more than just some distortion.

Thanks for the advise. I did plan on mounting MTM but maybe I would get better results with a tweeter, a 4"-5" mid and a 7" low and make it a 3 way. I only chose a 2-way because I thought it would be simpler to engineer. My options are wide open right now.
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post #12 of 39 Old 11-12-2013, 11:26 AM
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Or use a beefier tweeter depending on your SPL goals. Or put the tweeter in a waveguide. It does well in the DW-62 from diysoundgroup
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post #13 of 39 Old 11-12-2013, 11:29 AM
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Not sure why Amazon is selling an outdated edition

http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?partnumber=500-035
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post #14 of 39 Old 11-12-2013, 12:19 PM
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I would agree that the Vifa is not a good choice with the Usher. The Usher really needs to be crossed over at or below 2k (I think I used 1.8k 4th order) and the vifa really should be crossed higher. I mated the Usher with a Seas 27TDFC, but the Scan Speak HDS tweeter, the Dayton and some others would work that low with 4th order acoustic slopes.

To properly design crossovers for any speaker you need to first be able to measure the frequency response of your drivers mounted in your enclosures. Then you can use those measurements to design an active or passive XO that give you the proper electrical slopes to combine with the drivers acoustic response (and impedance for passive) to give you the acoustic response you want. You also have to be able to deal with acoustic offsets of the drivers (which impacts phase) either in the passive XO (using asymmetric slopes) or with delays in an active XO.

The point is that while active XOs are easier in that you don't have to deal with the impedance of the drivers and physical parts, you still have to do essentially the same design work to get a great sounding speaker. This isn't easy and the crossover (active or passive) can make a set of lousy drivers sound pretty good or a set of great drivers sound terrible. For your first time you may want to consider building a design by one of the experienced designers and then if you want to continue with the hobby, use that design as a reference to judge your own designs by.

Regards,

Dennis
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post #15 of 39 Old 11-12-2013, 01:42 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by djarchow View Post

I would agree that the Vifa is not a good choice with the Usher. The Usher really needs to be crossed over at or below 2k (I think I used 1.8k 4th order) and the vifa really should be crossed higher. I mated the Usher with a Seas 27TDFC, but the Scan Speak HDS tweeter, the Dayton and some others would work that low with 4th order acoustic slopes.

To properly design crossovers for any speaker you need to first be able to measure the frequency response of your drivers mounted in your enclosures. Then you can use those measurements to design an active or passive XO that give you the proper electrical slopes to combine with the drivers acoustic response (and impedance for passive) to give you the acoustic response you want. You also have to be able to deal with acoustic offsets of the drivers (which impacts phase) either in the passive XO (using asymmetric slopes) or with delays in an active XO.

The point is that while active XOs are easier in that you don't have to deal with the impedance of the drivers and physical parts, you still have to do essentially the same design work to get a great sounding speaker. This isn't easy and the crossover (active or passive) can make a set of lousy drivers sound pretty good or a set of great drivers sound terrible. For your first time you may want to consider building a design by one of the experienced designers and then if you want to continue with the hobby, use that design as a reference to judge your own designs by.

Regards,

Dennis

The problem is that every speaker builder has different opinions. For instance I was E-mailing a guy who runs a home speaker building web page (pretty elaborate) and he swears on the Vifa and Usher combo. Others (including yourself) dont care for it. Its hard to know whos opinion matches my sound objectives. Sounds like there will be alot of trial an error, but I really dont have the resources to buy up a bunch of different drivers and pick and choose. I figured that the with the right enclosures and Xovers, any quality driver set should sound terific. Now Im not so sure. I'm going to do a ton of research and make my decision based on how I interpet the whole thing, and with help from other builders like yall. For now I need to be more educated (mom was right).
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post #16 of 39 Old 11-12-2013, 01:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mike47 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by arnyk View Post

Here's some light reading:

http://www.amazon.com/Loudspeaker-Design-Cookbook-Vance-Dickason/dp/1882580109

Thats exactly what i'm gonna do. I want a good understanding of the whole process BEFORE I spend any money. Anymore suggested reading?

http://www.amazon.com/Sound-Reproduction-Acoustics-Psychoacoustics-Loudspeakers/dp/0240520092

Sound Reproduction: The Acoustics and Psychoacoustics of Loudspeakers and Rooms [Paperback]

...and thanks to the folks who pointed out the more up-to-date versions of the Dickason book.

Don't set yourself to be book-smart and shop-stupid. Book in one hand and screwdriver in the other! ;-)
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post #17 of 39 Old 11-12-2013, 02:28 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by arnyk View Post

http://www.amazon.com/Sound-Reproduction-Acoustics-Psychoacoustics-Loudspeakers/dp/0240520092

Sound Reproduction: The Acoustics and Psychoacoustics of Loudspeakers and Rooms [Paperback]

...and thanks to the folks who pointed out the more up-to-date versions of the Dickason book.

Don't set yourself to be book-smart and shop-stupid. Book in one hand and screwdriver in the other! ;-)

I'm a mechanical technition/machinist. I was born with a screwdriver in my hand! Its the "book-smart part I'm worried about!
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post #18 of 39 Old 11-12-2013, 02:48 PM
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Anyone who leads you to believe that setting up active crossovers are easy, or that it is not a big deal, is lying to you, or doesn't know what they are talking about. I have been experimenting with measurements and am just starting to dabble in active filters, and I am here to tell you, this is a very complicated project!

My advise would be to start with learning how to take measurements, as that will be one of, if not the, most important aspect of this hobby. I would highly recommend getting a member from here to help with getting started taking measurements.

I have been attempting this without any help, as I am having a hard time finding someone to help me, and it turned out to be much more complicated than I anticipated.

Good luck!
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post #19 of 39 Old 11-12-2013, 04:02 PM
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The guy who says that combo works, either got very lucky, listens with 2 watt tubes, can't hear well, or all three. With a very careful XO they can probably mate fine enough under low SPL, but why mate two expensive drivers the wrong way. It's like putting a Chevy big bore hot rod motor in a Ferrari instead of the race motor. Both motors may be great within their purpose, but the big block goes in the muscle car.

Marty, I've offered to help. I've even sent you my phone number but never got your call. Im out of town right now for work and can help you out if you'd like.
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post #20 of 39 Old 11-12-2013, 06:58 PM
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Originally Posted by mike47 View Post

The problem is that every speaker builder has different opinions. For instance I was E-mailing a guy who runs a home speaker building web page (pretty elaborate) and he swears on the Vifa and Usher combo. Others (including yourself) dont care for it. Its hard to know whos opinion matches my sound objectives. Sounds like there will be alot of trial an error, but I really dont have the resources to buy up a bunch of different drivers and pick and choose. I figured that the with the right enclosures and Xovers, any quality driver set should sound terific. Now Im not so sure. I'm going to do a ton of research and make my decision based on how I interpet the whole thing, and with help from other builders like yall. For now I need to be more educated (mom was right).

I would never encourage someone to just buy random drivers until you find ones that work. Mfg specs and other hobbyists measurements and designs posted online are usually enough to allow you to choose drivers that may work well together.

It is a common misconception by people new to this that you can just interchange drivers, cabinets, crossovers etc. In general the drivers need to be chosen to work together with each other given the rest of the system, crossover slopes etc. Then you need to design a crossover for that exact set of drivers as measured in the actual enclosure and baffle. In most cases ff you change a driver (different tweeter, different woofer etc.) you have to design a new crossover. Modify the baffle shape much or change the spacing of the drivers you have to design a new crossover etc etc.

If you want to take this up as a hobby, it is great and a lot of fun. But if you just want a great pair of speakers, pick a well respected design by an experienced designer and build them. You will spend less money (don't have to buy measurement equipment and software) and end up with better sounding speakers In fact I recommend that to anyone wanting to take up the hobby too. You will have a great pair of speakers that sound great and when you get the measurement equipment, design software etc. you can reverse engineer them as a learning experience and also use them as a reference sound for the speakers you design.

Good luck!
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post #21 of 39 Old 11-13-2013, 02:57 AM - Thread Starter
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I would never encourage someone to just buy random drivers until you find ones that work. Mfg specs and other hobbyists measurements and designs posted online are usually enough to allow you to choose drivers that may work well together.

It is a common misconception by people new to this that you can just interchange drivers, cabinets, crossovers etc. In general the drivers need to be chosen to work together with each other given the rest of the system, crossover slopes etc. Then you need to design a crossover for that exact set of drivers as measured in the actual enclosure and baffle. In most cases ff you change a driver (different tweeter, different woofer etc.) you have to design a new crossover. Modify the baffle shape much or change the spacing of the drivers you have to design a new crossover etc etc.

If you want to take this up as a hobby, it is great and a lot of fun. But if you just want a great pair of speakers, pick a well respected design by an experienced designer and build them. You will spend less money (don't have to buy measurement equipment and software) and end up with better sounding speakers In fact I recommend that to anyone wanting to take up the hobby too. You will have a great pair of speakers that sound great and when you get the measurement equipment, design software etc. you can reverse engineer them as a learning experience and also use them as a reference sound for the speakers you design.

Good luck!

Where is a good place to start as far as " pick a well respected design by an experienced designer and build them" ? Are you talking about a "kit" that includes drivers and XOvers like www.madisound.com sells or something else. I like the idea of reverse engineering to learn.
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post #22 of 39 Old 11-13-2013, 03:51 AM
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Maybe try the Karma-8 or Cheap Thrill from DIYSoundgroup?
http://www.diysoundgroup.com/waveguide-speaker-kits/karma8-kit.html
http://www.diysoundgroup.com/waveguide-speaker-kits/bwaslo-15-kit.html

There are others to choose from, but both of those are pretty inexpensive.
http://www.diysoundgroup.com/waveguide-speaker-kits.html

Basically, you get the drivers, a baffle, and a pile of loose crossover parts that is then on you to assemble. Since the designs have been very well thought out, planned, built, and tested, you'll be getting the right crossover parts for the speakers. It's then a matter of understanding the diagram and putting the crossover together correctly.
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post #23 of 39 Old 11-13-2013, 04:18 AM
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Just want to note that the Cheap Thrills have been gone for a while now as that particular B&C woofer is no longer available, at least to my understanding.
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post #24 of 39 Old 11-13-2013, 06:14 AM - Thread Starter
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Just want to note that the Cheap Thrills have been gone for a while now as that particular B&C woofer is no longer available, at least to my understanding.

I not looking for a cheap way out. I have roughly a $2000 budget and I figured on about 3 months to do the research, then buy and build. I want a really nice high end set of speakers when I'm finished. I never dreamed it was this complicated. I don't want to get frustrated and lose interest. I really appreciate everyones input. Madisound.com has some really nice 2.5way kits. One in particular is a scan-speak kit with XOvers for $1300 and they give specs for the enclosure. I may have to do something like that, although a part of me wants to venture off into the unknown armed with a newly acquired knowledge and forge my own speaker destiny. It would be lots more work but way more rewarding in the end. I guess it all depends on how good of an understanding I get after reading some books and staying in contact with folks like yall. I've started a journal on this subject and I am noting anything that sounds helpful.
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post #25 of 39 Old 11-13-2013, 06:30 AM
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You need to let the experts here know your goals.
-High SPL or just easy listening.
-I assume these are for 2 channel music and are not going to be for home theater.
-You will want a subwoofer even for music.
-Will your room be treated and is it a dedicated room or part of the house.

With a $2000 budget you may be in ribbon tweeter territory.

I started where you are and have built 3-ways, 2 ways and also a Danley SH-50 clone. I don't possess the knowledge of the experts here but have called upon them when needed and have some very good sounding speakers (to Me) right now.

You will need to learn REW, MiniDSP and box building.

Give them as many details as you can and they can help you.

Moto
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post #26 of 39 Old 11-13-2013, 07:35 AM
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There are lots of great sounding designs out there. Knowing a bit more about your goals would help. I am not a fan of past Madisound designs I have heard. To clarify that, I am not a fan of Madisound's own designs, some that they have had others do, like John Kruetke (Zaph) have been good. Madisound is a great place to buy parts from through.

Here are a few I have heard at the DIY events and really liked:

The Statements - A great sounding speaker that many have built. http://speakerdesignworks.com/Statements.html
The Finalists - a great three way by the same designer as the Statements: http://speakerdesignworks.com/Finalists_1.html
Zaph Audio ZRT - a great sounding 2 way using high end drivers: http://zaphaudio.com/ZRT.html
The Dennis Murphy designed ER18 MTM - very similar to the Salk Songtowers he also designed: http://meniscusaudio.com/er18mtm-ribbon-pair-p-1323.html

Meniscus Audio stocks a bunch of these kits as well as other by great designers like Dennis Murphy, Curt Campbell, Jeff Bagby and others.

If you are looking for something for home theater, the SEOS designs talked about a lot here on AVS are getting a lot of good feedback.

there are a lot of great choices.
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post #27 of 39 Old 11-13-2013, 08:27 AM - Thread Starter
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These speakers will be primarily used for 2 ch music, mostly 70s - 80s rock. I like my music loud and clear. I dont know how to interpret that into a measurement such as SPL. Although they will be powered by a home theater receiver, I plan on using small micro speakers for the movies and my project speakers for music and swap speaker wires accordingly. The receiver is a Cambridge Audio 751R which has awesome 2ch sound with 170W x 2. Eventually I will have a dedicated 2ch amp and pre amp. I will be using a subwoofer which is why I'm leaning towards a 2 or 2.5 way system. I would like to have two mids and one tweeter arranged MTM, but thats not written in stone. They must be floorstanding taller than 36". I think I want the cabinet sealed instead of ported (another unknown). I would perfer them to be 8 ohms but 4 ohms is ok as long as the sensitivity is not too low. I like a leaned back enclosure design similar to Thiel's CS 2.7 speakers, but thats not a necessity. I plan to take the enclosures to a paint and body shop and have them sprayed gloss white enamel. I will design and machine the base and feet from billet aluminum. One question though, If These speakers are built for 2ch music, wouldnt they sound good for home theater too?i
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post #28 of 39 Old 11-13-2013, 09:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mike47 View Post

These speakers will be primarily used for 2 ch music, mostly 70s - 80s rock. I like my music loud and clear. I dont know how to interpret that into a measurement such as SPL. Although they will be powered by a home theater receiver, I plan on using small micro speakers for the movies and my project speakers for music and swap speaker wires accordingly. The receiver is a Cambridge Audio 751R which has awesome 2ch sound with 170W x 2. Eventually I will have a dedicated 2ch amp and pre amp. I will be using a subwoofer which is why I'm leaning towards a 2 or 2.5 way system. I would like to have two mids and one tweeter arranged MTM, but thats not written in stone. They must be floorstanding taller than 36". I think I want the cabinet sealed instead of ported (another unknown). I would perfer them to be 8 ohms but 4 ohms is ok as long as the sensitivity is not too low. I like a leaned back enclosure design similar to Thiel's CS 2.7 speakers, but thats not a necessity. I plan to take the enclosures to a paint and body shop and have them sprayed gloss white enamel. I will design and machine the base and feet from billet aluminum. One question though, If These speakers are built for 2ch music, wouldnt they sound good for home theater too?i


Speakers for 2 channel music can certainly sound great for movies. High end audio drivers like in the designs I mentioned above tend to be more limited in overall output vs the pro-audio drivers found in the designs like the SEOS designs; but this is all relative depending on how loud you want to listen. Going with an MTM or a 2.5 way speaker using regular drivers (not pro audio) will help increase the overall output and should be fine unless you want to crank it up to 100db+ theater/club levels. The Statements I mentioned will certainly play really loud and still sound great.

Most MTM designs will tend to be closer to 4 ohms than 8 due to the woofers being in parallel. Many good designers (not all) generally pay attention to keeping the impedance fairly amp friendly

For any design, you generally have to build the enclosure the way it was designed in terms of the baffle size, driver layout etc. For example you can't take a speaker designed with a flat baffle and make an enclosure with a slanted baffle and expect it to sound the same.
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post #29 of 39 Old 11-13-2013, 10:50 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by djarchow View Post

Speakers for 2 channel music can certainly sound great for movies. High end audio drivers like in the designs I mentioned above tend to be more limited in overall output vs the pro-audio drivers found in the designs like the SEOS designs; but this is all relative depending on how loud you want to listen. Going with an MTM or a 2.5 way speaker using regular drivers (not pro audio) will help increase the overall output and should be fine unless you want to crank it up to 100db+ theater/club levels. The Statements I mentioned will certainly play really loud and still sound great.

Most MTM designs will tend to be closer to 4 ohms than 8 due to the woofers being in parallel. Many good designers (not all) generally pay attention to keeping the impedance fairly amp friendly

For any design, you generally have to build the enclosure the way it was designed in terms of the baffle size, driver layout etc. For example you can't take a speaker designed with a flat baffle and make an enclosure with a slanted baffle and expect it to sound the same.

So you can tell the size shape and volume (I knew that one) of the enclosure by looking at the speaker's spec sheet?
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post #30 of 39 Old 11-13-2013, 12:06 PM
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The following is just IMO based on this:
Quote:
mostly 70s - 80s rock. I like my music loud and clear.

I started in the same place as you and here are some suggestions:

All of the following are high sensitivity which for me is a must plus an AVR will easily drive them.

-I don't think you would be happy with dome tweeters as they wouldn't play clean and loud unless your room is very small.
-My first suggestion would be DIY Sound Group and one of the 12" or 15" kits, they come with everything to build them if you get a flat pack and I would recommend the prebuilt crossovers. Almost no one is dissatisfied and the price is right.
-Get them and get REW running and see what your frequency response is in room just to get a feeling for what it does.

-If you had said you could spend $2000 per speaker I would have said get the JTR Noesis 212's that everyone raves about but they are over double the budget.

-If you really want to build your own you have a steep learning curve with active speakers. You need to pick drivers that are compatible (I would search other wave guide and ribbon tweeter designs) and learn REW and MiniDSP or equivalent. Going 2.5 or 3 way really adds to the difficulty.

My personal favorite at $2000 would be the Beyma TPL150H and 2 AE TD12m's. Over budget tho plus you need the amps, but I want to build these someday. Of course you probably only need 1 TD12 which would make it more affordable.

Any of the experts feel free to point out any mistakes I made. I am definitely not one.

Moto
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