Dayton Audio UM18-22 18" Ultimax to be released - Page 22 - AVS Forum
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post #631 of 1105 Old 08-06-2014, 03:03 PM
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144" whoa, what kind of projector you runnin Archaea?
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post #632 of 1105 Old 08-06-2014, 03:14 PM
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Panasonic AE8000U - it's plenty bright.
looks fantastic IMO. My room is black, ceiling is black, light control is great since there is only one window far back in the room.

The projector material is Seymour Center Stage XD AT fabric.

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post #633 of 1105 Old 08-06-2014, 04:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BrutalBodyShots View Post
I'm not sure who from PE replied to my inquiry a few months back about ported enclosure size, but they said that they strongly suggested NOT going below 7-8 cubic feet internally for a vented design for this driver and even at that volume it wouldn't be ideal of course.
+1. It looks very good in 16cu ft, tuned to 16Hz, with an f3 at 16Hz, but smaller than that and you get a pretty substantial hump at the low end of the curve. You can EQ it out, of course, but when you get to 6cu ft the advantage shifts to sealed.
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post #634 of 1105 Old 08-06-2014, 05:04 PM
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Panasonic AE8000U - it's plenty bright.
looks fantastic IMO. My room is black, ceiling is black, light control is great since there is only one window far back in the room.

The projector material is Seymour Center Stage XD AT fabric.
Nice man, do you have to run your lamp on high? I have an Epson 5030 and can run larger than my 120" for sure but the fan noise on normal can be a little intrusive.
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post #635 of 1105 Old 08-06-2014, 05:10 PM
 
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Let's see what Jack thinks about my ghetto Ultimax and Tempest 12 markup...

Actually, would this work? Kinda sorta not really to scale.
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post #636 of 1105 Old 08-06-2014, 05:13 PM
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Originally Posted by corndogggy View Post
Let's see what Jack thinks about my ghetto Ultimax and Tempest 12 markup...

Actually, would this work? Kinda sorta not really to scale.
Get an AT screen and your center can be placed at the same height as your L & R...golden.
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post #637 of 1105 Old 08-06-2014, 05:14 PM
 
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Get an AT screen
Sorry, I'm not sure what that is? Sound goes right through it I guess?
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post #638 of 1105 Old 08-06-2014, 05:17 PM
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Originally Posted by gpmbc View Post
Nice man, do you have to run your lamp on high? I have an Epson 5030 and can run larger than my 120" for sure but the fan noise on normal can be a little intrusive.
Lamp is on eco. Color mode is normal. It's plenty bright. On normal (non eco) my wife says it's blinding. (dark room really does a lot! - but the Panasonic is plenty bright).

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post #639 of 1105 Old 08-06-2014, 05:30 PM
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Sorry, I'm not sure what that is? Sound goes right through it I guess?
Yep right through it. It's great cause you hide so much stuff behind that might otherwise look tacky placed about.
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post #640 of 1105 Old 08-06-2014, 05:31 PM
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Lamp is on eco. Color mode is normal. It's plenty bright. On normal (non eco) my wife says it's blinding. (dark room really does a lot! - but the Panasonic is plenty bright).
That's great, I do miss my man cave for that aspect alone.
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post #641 of 1105 Old 08-06-2014, 05:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by corndogggy View Post
Let's see what Jack thinks about my ghetto Ultimax and Tempest 12 markup...

Actually, would this work? Kinda sorta not really to scale.
Nice but you should totally....

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Get an AT screen and your center can be placed at the same height as your L & R...golden.
...this.

I can't like Greg's post more than once?!?! Agh!

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post #642 of 1105 Old 08-06-2014, 05:48 PM
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Originally Posted by gpmbc View Post
Nice man, do you have to run your lamp on high? I have an Epson 5030 and can run larger than my 120" for sure but the fan noise on normal can be a little intrusive.
Not to derail the thread, but the panasonic is significantly quieter than the epson in high lamp.
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post #643 of 1105 Old 08-06-2014, 11:08 PM
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was asked a question about this. didn't know where to place the pic. this place seemed as appropriate as any.


current specs um18 in 11c.f. ported tuned to 16hz (i.e. full size martysub) 1100 watts. no filters, just raw response.




even in the relatively large cab, cone excursion doesn't come close to xmax at 1100 watts. a larger cab, such as 16 cubic feet, would provide a little bit more spl (~2db or so) around tuning. not much benefit going much larger than that.





adventure seekers could wire each coil to a channel of an inuke 3000dsp. that could provide bursts up to about twice the rms spec of the driver. not sure how much I like that idea though--Dayton specs rms power as 1000 watts and that doesn't really mean anything.
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post #644 of 1105 Old 08-06-2014, 11:25 PM
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So at 1100 watts the si18 and UM18 in Marty are virtually the same graph wise. 16cuft is huge. Doesn't seem worth the extra dough or what am I missing ?
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post #645 of 1105 Old 08-07-2014, 01:09 AM
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the coil overhang on the 460 is only 13mm so the um may stay more linear at higher spl. tough to say because many variables figure into that. the 460 indicates 900 w rms/1800 max, so maybe the um at 1000 w rms can do 2000 max. 2000 watts would allow the driver to get out towards the higher end of the excursion range, so that could be more spl too. we'll see though once josh puts them on his dyno. ;-)

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post #646 of 1105 Old 08-07-2014, 05:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaytonAudioRory View Post
The difference in my results is negligible, less than 1 dB. With the new parameters, response appears to be flatter, and F3 is 26 Hz in a 145 L box (5.1 cubic feet; F10 is 16 Hz, Qtc of .83). Performance in this size of enclosure is excellent overall. You might need to double-check that you entered the final parameters using the correct values and units if you are seeing a larger difference in your results from the preliminary specs to the final specs.
Thanks Rory,

I had few parameters differing and have corrected them all seems to be Good
QTC is 0,831 an tuning 31,65Hz
If I add Linkwitz filter as: f0=31,60Hz, Q=0,83, fp=20, Qp=0,71 it goes straight from 3Hz to 20Hz

Pretty quick shipping as they already left from Koln Germany to Finland today morning
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post #647 of 1105 Old 08-07-2014, 10:01 AM
 
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So at 1100 watts the si18 and UM18 in Marty are virtually the same graph wise. 16cuft is huge. Doesn't seem worth the extra dough or what am I missing ?
Yeah but can you stab the SI with a screwdriver? I think not! 2 minutes in:

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post #648 of 1105 Old 08-07-2014, 10:06 AM
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Yeah but can you stab the SI with a screwdriver? I think not! 2 minutes in:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kVQyf-_gNLs
In the video, it doesn't look like Joe is "stabbing" the cone all that hard, but this test was performed earlier to a greater extent and Joe is just re-enacting and trying not to damage the sample units. These cones are very puncture-resistant, making them good for installation in a vehicle trunk where you might have other things shifting around and contacting the cone.

The glass fiber cones are extremely rugged and rigid compared to a conventional cone (even conventional single-layer woven fiber cones). The same type of glass/Nomex honeycomb layup is found regularly in aircraft floor panels, equipment shelves, and exterior fairings. (Though they can't support my 200+ pound weight without collapsing - I tried standing on a sample cone. Can't have it all, I guess.)

The only conceivable natural enemy that these cones might have is a crayon, since the wax would get stuck between the fibers. If you have a young one that draws on the walls, you might want to provide some protection for these drivers from toddler graffiti.

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post #649 of 1105 Old 08-07-2014, 10:28 AM
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So at 1100 watts the si18 and UM18 in Marty are virtually the same graph wise. 16cuft is huge. Doesn't seem worth the extra dough or what am I missing ?
They model very similarly actually and if anything the UM18 has the edge on all fronts besides price and voicecoil configuration.

You're not missing anything really. It's just a different driver. More options available for the public.

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post #650 of 1105 Old 08-07-2014, 10:54 AM
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Not to derail the thread, but the panasonic is significantly quieter than the epson in high lamp.
Sorry for off topic. Yes, but the Epson is brighter and throws a sharper image. Trade-offs.
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post #651 of 1105 Old 08-07-2014, 10:58 AM
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Sorry for off topic. Yes, but the Epson is brighter and throws a sharper image. Trade-offs.
I have both set up. I like the Epson a lot better in terms of picture. The panny is way quieter though. I promise I'm done with this now =/
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post #652 of 1105 Old 08-07-2014, 12:58 PM
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panasonic is reliable and epson is not

(true at least according to my small sample size and reading in the Epson 8350 thread - my friend carp sent back six Epson 8350's and I was on my fifth before I got a good one. I bought my original one new from Best Buy. The refurb pool on the 8350 is FULLLLLL to the brim of projectors that have all kinds of problems and they just seem to cylcle them out over and over again without fixing them.)

The Panasonic AE8000U is my third panasonic and I had no problems with the first two and don't expect any with this unit either.

Ford vs Chevy.
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post #653 of 1105 Old 08-07-2014, 01:09 PM
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panasonic is reliable and epson is not

(at least according to my small sample size and the Epson 8350 thread - my friend carp sent back six Epson 8350's and I was on my fifth.)

The Panasonic AE8000U is my third panasonic and I had no problems with the first two and don't expect any with this unit either.

Ford vs Chevy.
I'm not going to feel bad cuz AVS is all about going OT.

I'm a long time Panny fan and I currently use an AX200u which has kept me very happy. It does have the occasional bout of 'flicker' though. Oye! Very annoying.

Been eying all their 1080p units since I got this one about six years ago. I desire a new pj but can't afford one atm but I'm torn between the 8000u and the 5030ub. Right now I've been slanting towards the Epson for the extra brightness, uniformity, black level and sharpness over the Panny. It is however very close between the two. It has seemed that there have been way too many uniformity and QC issues with the Panny or otherwise that would be my first choice. Epson has caught up very fast in recent years.

My father is currently using an Epson 8350 with no issues (never had to be sent in) and he runs that thing for hours and hours every day. Uses it like a tv but that's cuz it sorta is.

But yeah. They are mostly the same damn thing with some nuances here and there. I'll be going with a much much larger screen so I need every damn lumen I can get.

Might be looking into other things since CEDIA is right around the corner. Should here about some new gear for the coming year.

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These cones are very puncture-resistant, making them good for installation in a vehicle trunk where you might have other things shifting around and contacting the cone.
I have some yard apes, aka. rug rats, who like to do cartwheels in the only room in my house that has carpet in it, which just happens to be on the verge of getting loaded up with speakers.
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post #655 of 1105 Old 08-07-2014, 03:13 PM
 
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Originally Posted by DaytonAudioRory View Post
The difference in my results is negligible, less than 1 dB. With the new parameters, response appears to be flatter, and F3 is 26 Hz in a 145 L box (5.1 cubic feet; F10 is 16 Hz, Qtc of .83). Performance in this size of enclosure is excellent overall.
I asked you about this comment on the phone, specifically about the new 5.1 cubic feet size instead of 4 that is mentioned on the product page, you said no stick with 4. This couldn't have been a typo because 145 liters is in fact 5.1 cubic feet. Would they open up more with 5.1? On the product page it says you need 7 cubic feet to get the same F3 and F10 you mentioned here. If you can do the same with 5.1 I am going to shoot for that.
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post #656 of 1105 Old 08-07-2014, 05:48 PM
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The UM15 description says it has a copper sleeve, whereas the UM18 says it has aluminum rings above and below the gap. Are both descriptions correct?
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post #657 of 1105 Old 08-07-2014, 05:55 PM
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The UM15 description says it has a copper sleeve, whereas the UM18 says it has aluminum rings above and below the gap. Are both descriptions correct?
Yes.

The 10, 12 and 15 inch models have a copper sleeve and the UM18 has dual aluminum rings.

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post #658 of 1105 Old 08-07-2014, 08:18 PM
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The Ultimax 18s use aluminum shorting rings instead of copper. When you have such large shorting rings as what we are using in this motor, the difference between copper and aluminum in their effectiveness at shorting eddy currents is very slim, and aluminum was the more cost-effective option.

Somebody please post once you've got the Ultimax 18s making sound in your system! I'm interested to know what everyone thinks about their performance.
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post #659 of 1105 Old 08-07-2014, 08:25 PM
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Sound is awesome! I have one working with an inuke6000dsp and I tuned it a bit. It hits hard and deep.

I have a mfw15 in the same room and it puts it to shame. I didn't think that was possible.

Really clean sound too. All music so far, and I couldn't be happier.
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post #660 of 1105 Old 08-07-2014, 08:29 PM
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Quote:
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The Ultimax 18s use aluminum shorting rings instead of copper. When you have such large shorting rings as what we are using in this motor, the difference between copper and aluminum in their effectiveness at shorting eddy currents is very slim, and aluminum was the more cost-effective option.
Plus the drop in BL would necessitate the requirement for a larger, more powerful (ie: more expensive) motor.

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