Dayton Audio UM18-22 18" Ultimax to be released - Page 25 - AVS Forum
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post #721 of 1058 Old 08-18-2014, 01:58 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Bassment View Post
yup, that's why most people do slot ports
I've done PVC in my car before, had two isobaric 12's with two 4" ports firing through the factory 6x9 slots. Worked fine but is pretty danged ugly, there's no way to trim it properly that I'm aware of.
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post #722 of 1058 Old 08-18-2014, 03:06 PM
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Originally Posted by corndogggy View Post
Of course in regards to the ported plans above, I didn't realize that the port parts alone with shipping would run around $400. That's ridiculous. Why on earth is a piece of 4" PVC $14.51 each? You can buy an entire 10 foot long section of pipe for less than $20 at Lowes, elbows are $5.33, no coupling ring is needed.
Try the Precision Port products - the flares are a bit bigger and the cost per 12" of tube is lower.
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post #723 of 1058 Old 08-18-2014, 06:59 PM
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Originally Posted by DaytonAudioRory View Post
1/4"-20 socket head cap screws and T-nuts or threaded inserts, depending on what you prefer to use. (For T-nuts, use some adhesive to hold them in place and keep them from spinning or backing out - always a problem in MDF.)
My cabs are Baltic Birch, so it's that the same recommendation? I've not used t-nuts before. The six prong model at parts express looks like it has good reviews.
http://www.parts-express.com/1-4-20-...-pcs--081-1090

Are they strong enough for birch?

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post #724 of 1058 Old 08-18-2014, 07:12 PM
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Archaea unless you are planning to pull the drivers on occasion I would not use t-nuts. An aggressive thread screw will have plenty of holding power. If you ever have a t-nut spin you will likely never use them again. Different story if you plan to pull the drivers more than 2-3 times. My maelstrom X driver has never worked it's way loose.
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post #725 of 1058 Old 08-19-2014, 06:36 AM
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Originally Posted by kookmyers View Post
Just thought I would share my experience with my box building. I was quite a bit disappointed when I first inserted the Ultimax 18. With the prescribed 18.5" outer cutout I had quite a bit of space between the cutout and the speaker. I was further disappointed after I marked all the holes and removed the speaker. The markings were all very close to the edge of the 17" opening. I drilled and installed threaded inserts and found that the holes were so close to the edge that the threads of the insert slightly broke through the edge of the MDF.
If the 422mm dimension (16.61") is the size of the speaker, I am confused as to why we need 0.39" of slop? Similarly, if the outer dimension is 462mm (18.19") why would we want an 18.5" hole for 5/32" visible spacing all around?
If I could go back and do it again, I would not follow the recommended cutouts.

Thanks in advance for any advice. I hope my experience with the cutouts can help others.
@DaytonAudioRory

I think PE needs to update the website, the 17/18.5" cutouts were up there when they were estimating the size of the cutouts and they had a message about not building until the specs were confirmed.

I had the exact same issue.
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post #726 of 1058 Old 08-19-2014, 06:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NWCgrad View Post
Archaea unless you are planning to pull the drivers on occasion I would not use t-nuts. An aggressive thread screw will have plenty of holding power. If you ever have a t-nut spin you will likely never use them again. Different story if you plan to pull the drivers more than 2-3 times. My maelstrom X driver has never worked it's way loose.
I agree here, ive used #8 or #10 screws on all the subs ive made with no issues, the 2 Dayton HO18s are held in with #8 wood screws in MDF and the SI24 is held in with #10 s into birch ply

back in the car audio days we just used to use drywall screws in ply or MDF
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post #727 of 1058 Old 08-19-2014, 08:44 AM
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Cutout information on the PE web site will be updated soon, FYI.

Regarding mounting, there are other alternatives to the 1/4" x 20 socket head screw and T-nut combo. Some use threaded inserts with exterior threads (rosalies), some use hurricane nuts (just as prone to spinning as T-nuts, I've found, though more difficult to back out), and some use barbed threaded inserts. You can probably use several layers of material behind ordinary coarse-thread wood screws and obtain good holding strength, but the most structurally sound way that I can think of is to use the Parts Express premium T-nuts, installed using a dab of adhesive between the flange and workpiece to hold them in place and keep them from backing out, and then haul on them using 1/4"-20 machine screws. The main cause of back-outs and spinning T-nuts is cross-threading or getting crud into the threads, but extra care during installation will ensure proper alignment and threading of the fasteners. When installing the driver, hide the allen wrench from yourself until all screws thread easily by hand into the nuts, then tighten them as much as possible using your fingers before breaking out the wrench and finishing them all off. And don't use cheap T-nuts.

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post #728 of 1058 Old 08-19-2014, 09:49 AM
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Originally Posted by jhgkak View Post
@DaytonAudioRory

I think PE needs to update the website, the 17/18.5" cutouts were up there when they were estimating the size of the cutouts and they had a message about not building until the specs were confirmed.

I had the exact same issue.

Its a shame that I never saw a note on the PE website about the cutout sizes being estimates. I also waited to build my box until it was in stock at PE. Once it was in stock, I would have imagined that the sizes would have been confirmed. I had the pdf information and only slightly questioned the cutout sizes since I figured they knew box building better than me. The 18.5" dimension is excusable since people may need some clearance to get the driver in/out. The 17" dimension is problematic.
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post #729 of 1058 Old 08-19-2014, 10:26 AM
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@DaytonAudioRory, @NWCgrad, @Sibuna


Thanks for the feedback. I bet wood screws would work fine, especially since I may never remove the drivers and the baffle is double thick, but t-nuts appeal to me most because, assuming I get them setup correctly, I will never have to worry about damaging my nice cabs. I also like the way the machine screws with the cap head look visually.


I went with 10-32 for two reasons. More threads per inch helps avoid loosening due to vibration (if I understand correctly), and a smaller hole to drill - 1/4" hole instead of 5/16" hole, which hopefully will help keep the t-nut hole from breaking into the driver cutout.


So I ended up ordering the premium 6 prong t-nuts through Parts Express (two 50 packs)
http://www.amazon.com/10-32-Deluxe-6...pr_product_top
http://www.parts-express.com/10-32-d...-pcs--081-1088

And then a pack of black oxide 10-32, 2" long machine bolts from an amazon seller. (100 pack) -- he only had one pack left for $23.42
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00AMMYH8W/ref=biss_dp_sa1


Since the pilot holes are pre-drilled by the CNC machine by the cabinet shop - it should be easy for me to increase the size to the 1/4" required diameter and install the t-nut in a perfect orientation -- so I get a free pass to avoid some of the frustrations I read about in using t-nuts, in that they need very straight and perfectly spaced holes for the threads to work properly for driver mount use.


Here is a picture of the front baffle
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post #730 of 1058 Old 08-19-2014, 10:50 AM
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just be careful when you drill out the holes with a wider bit. might want to use a jig to make sure you keep it straight
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post #731 of 1058 Old 08-20-2014, 12:00 AM
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Hi

I'm looking at building my own sub , using Dayton Audio UM18-22 18". The knock down 4ft"3 box from parts express . What would be the best amp to use ? (i'm only building one )

And any other tips i should know ?

cheers

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post #732 of 1058 Old 08-20-2014, 05:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by maddog_1 View Post
Hi

I'm looking at building my own sub , using Dayton Audio UM18-22 18". The knock down 4ft"3 box from parts express . What would be the best amp to use ? (i'm only building one )

And any other tips i should know ?

cheers
I'd go with the iNuke 3000 DSP. Seems like the best bang for the buck and the reviews are very good for all iNukes. I have the 6000 DSP for two.

Just be aware of the connections, loud fans (modable) and lack of auto on/off.
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post #733 of 1058 Old 08-20-2014, 06:35 AM
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Originally Posted by jhgkak View Post
I'd go with the iNuke 3000 DSP. Seems like the best bang for the buck and the reviews are very good for all iNukes. I have the 6000 DSP for two.

Just be aware of the connections, loud fans (modable) and lack of auto on/off.
+1 on the inuke 3000dsp.

connections- basically xlr inputs and what ever you want on output.

loud fans- do a fan mod if needed.

lack of auto on/off- make a relay or buy a switchable outlet.

now you are in business.

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post #734 of 1058 Old 08-20-2014, 07:36 AM
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Originally Posted by jhgkak View Post
I'd go with the iNuke 3000 DSP. Seems like the best bang for the buck and the reviews are very good for all iNukes. I have the 6000 DSP for two.

Just be aware of the connections, loud fans (modable) and lack of auto on/off.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pain Infliction View Post
+1 on the inuke 3000dsp.

connections- basically xlr inputs and what ever you want on output.

loud fans- do a fan mod if needed.

lack of auto on/off- make a relay or buy a switchable outlet.

now you are in business.
thanks for that guys , so do i use it in bridge mode or just single channel ?
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post #735 of 1058 Old 08-20-2014, 07:50 AM
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Originally Posted by Pain Infliction View Post
+1 on the inuke 3000dsp.

connections- basically xlr inputs and what ever you want on output.

loud fans- do a fan mod if needed.

lack of auto on/off- make a relay or buy a switchable outlet.

now you are in business.
I think we should clarify, the lack of auto on/off can be fixed with a master/slave type power strip. I do this and mine auto powers on with my AVR
And the fans only seem to get loud under serious load. If you have quiet scenes right after an intense scene, then you will hear them spooling down. Otherwise, you should not hear them over your other speakers.
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post #736 of 1058 Old 08-20-2014, 08:04 AM
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^^^ There are a few ways of doing it.

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post #737 of 1058 Old 08-21-2014, 12:04 AM
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do you know where i can get inuke 3000dsp that takes 240v , i'm in australia
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post #738 of 1058 Old 08-22-2014, 03:13 PM
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Originally Posted by DaytonAudioRory View Post
I tested this with one of our existing 4-cubic-foot cabinets, and the cutout and frame recess can accept the 12-spoke 18" frame, but it is a very tight fit - almost to the point of scuffing the paint on the frame. So yes, you can use the Ultimax 18 in the 300-7079 4-cubic-foot cabinet, but there is literally no 'slop' around the frame and normally we'd like to have a little bit of allowance. My concern is that if there's any variation in the basket casting, there's the possiblity that the driver might not fit, or might require extra undue effort to make it fit. Also, the thickness of some finishes (e.g. duratex or heavy brushed-on primer) would prevent the driver from dropping into place.

What we will probably do on our end is just add 0.5mm-1mm around the outside of the frame recess so that things aren't quite so tight when installing the UM18-22, and just retain one cabinet model that serves both the Reference Series and the Ultimax drivers.
In case anyone is anxious to get the build started, it is very easy to mod the 4 cubic foot cabinets to fit the Ultimax 18. It took me about 15 minutes and looks perfectly clean. Check out the post on how I did it:

Dayton Ultimax 18 Build (in PE 4 cu ft box with cutout for Dayton Reference Sub)
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post #739 of 1058 Old 08-22-2014, 03:30 PM
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Wiring iNuke to Ultimax

I was wondering if anyone can explain how to wire an iNuke to the Ultimax using 4 pole speakon connectors. I'll be running the iNuke from an Emotiva USP-1 preamp. From what I read, I can wire it bridged or in stereo. I don't understand why one would choose one over the other. I did a search but still confused. I am not even clear if I will end up with one or two wires - i.e. do I need to use both channel A and B out of the iNuke and will I require two connectors on the sub or will it be two from the iNuke to one on the sub?

I attached pics of the backs of the iNuke and the Emotiva USP-1 preamp.
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post #740 of 1058 Old 08-23-2014, 04:33 AM
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Originally Posted by Mtrc808 View Post
I was wondering if anyone can explain how to wire an iNuke to the Ultimax using 4 pole speakon connectors. I'll be running the iNuke from an Emotiva USP-1 preamp. From what I read, I can wire it bridged or in stereo. I don't understand why one would choose one over the other. I did a search but still confused. I am not even clear if I will end up with one or two wires - i.e. do I need to use both channel A and B out of the iNuke and will I require two connectors on the sub or will it be two from the iNuke to one on the sub?

I attached pics of the backs of the iNuke and the Emotiva USP-1 preamp.
If you use stereo mode you get 680 watts RMS, 880 watts peak (4 ohms) from each output on the inuke, if you use it in bridged mono you get 2050 watts RMS, 3000 watts peak (4 ohms). In bridged mode you can use A or B outputs because they are bridged , In both modes you only use one cable

Page 7of the manual
BRIDGE mode combines the signals from Inputs A and B into a blended mono
signal and then routes the resulting mono signal through a single chain of
DSP modules, leading to a combined mono output. The mono output signal is
identical at Outputs A and B, and the amplifier responds to a single combined
speaker load.

Last edited by maddog_1; 08-23-2014 at 04:48 AM.
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post #741 of 1058 Old 08-23-2014, 10:07 AM
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Last night had get together and wife of friend tripped over this:



Already have four UXL's but am planning to experiment with two UM's for front row end tables to rid myself of this trip hazard. Have read Mark Seaton has ran tests on driver with positive results, so am willing to experiment using two drivers.

Plan is to use solid 5/4 solid Knotty Alder to build cabs for dual purpose ie. furniture and leveling subs.

Vaporware no more........curiosity has taken over me.........
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post #742 of 1058 Old 08-23-2014, 12:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by maddog_1 View Post
If you use stereo mode you get 680 watts RMS, 880 watts peak (4 ohms) from each output on the inuke, if you use it in bridged mono you get 2050 watts RMS, 3000 watts peak (4 ohms). In bridged mode you can use A or B outputs because they are bridged , In both modes you only use one cable

Page 7of the manual
BRIDGE mode combines the signals from Inputs A and B into a blended mono
signal and then routes the resulting mono signal through a single chain of
DSP modules, leading to a combined mono output. The mono output signal is
identical at Outputs A and B, and the amplifier responds to a single combined
speaker load.
The ultimax has 2 voice coils. If I used stereo, would I wire each output from the iNuke to each voice coil? Is the only consideration to deciding between stereo and bridged (mono) operation, the power?

I am trying not to confuse "running the iNuke in stereo" with outputs to two separate subwoofer and "running the iNuke in stereo" with both outputs going to one subwoofer, one to each voice coil. Or am I speaking gibberish?

Basically, are most people who are using one iNuke3000 with one Ultimax 18, wiring the Ultimax in bridged or stereo? The guys at Parts Express recommended stereo but could not explain why so I don't trust their recommendation. This is confusing as all hell. I understand how to set up the iNuke for stereo or bridged and resultant wattage. I also read this from chalugadp's Marty FAQ and still confused (I did not build a Marty sub btw, just a 4 cuft sealed):

"4) How does speakon connect in stereo and bridge mode and how do I change it ?

When running one driver on each channel in NON-BRIDGED MODE, 1+ and 1- will be used. 1+ gets connected to the positive/red on the sub and 1- gets connected to the negative/black on the sub. in NON-BRIDGED MODE 2+ and 2- are NOT used.

When running the amp in BRIDGED MODE, 1+ and 2+ will be used and the cable will go in Channel A. the amp must be set to "bridged mode" (this effectively reverses the polarity of the 2+ terminal into a negative but instead of 0/ground voltage it produces the 'negative version' of what is going to the positive terminal thus doubling the overall voltage output, which increases power by a factor of 4). 1+ goes to the positive/red on the driver and 2+ goes to the negative/black on the driver.
"
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post #743 of 1058 Old 08-23-2014, 10:58 PM
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I'm happy to report that the iNuke DSP 6000 amp can apparently run two Ultimax's per side for home theater use.


I watched Through the Never (Metallica concert) tonight with a friend with just four of my UM18-22 subs hooked up to a single iNuke DSP 6000 amp. I've not yet got the other four installed. The subs were basically within +/-3dB to 10hz through external EQ using my Symetrix 551E and verified using omnimic measurements. We watched the concert at -5dB from reference with the subs about 6dB hot. The amp never spun up the fans, and I checked on it during some of the most intense scenes and there were two of three signal lights blinking, Mostly 1, occasionally 2, on the heaviest of sounds, the explosions, the building falling, etc, then the third signal light was tickling. Never any clip lights, not once. I understand I'm leaving some juice on the table by only giving these subs about 1,000 watts each, but with eight of them going - I won't be lacking for output in my 24x18 foot theater room..


The ohm rating on these subs is appears aggressive because as stated earlier, the only time the sub will get down to the 4ohm impedance is ~8hz or below. The iNuke DSP 6000 isn't supposed to work with a 2ohm load per channel (4 and 4 wired in parallel), but because of the impedance graph of these Ultimax subs, I decided to give it a try. I'm glad I did.


Eight of these Ultimax 18" subs (2K), and two iNuke DSP 6000 amps ($800) makes a world beater setup on a comparatively cheap budget.

Last edited by Archaea; 08-24-2014 at 06:43 AM.
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post #744 of 1058 Old 08-23-2014, 11:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Archaea View Post
I'm happy to report that the iNuke DSP 6000 amp can apparently run two Ultimax's per side for home theater use.


I watched Through the Never (Metallica concert) tonight with a friend with just four of my UM18-22 subs hooked up to a single iNuke DSP 6000 amp. I've not yet got the other four installed. The subs were basically within +/-3dB to 10hz through external EQ using my Symetrix 551E and verified using omnimic measurements. We watched the concert at -5dB from reference with the subs about 6dB hot. The amp never spun up the fans, and I checked on it during some of the most intense scenes and there were two of three signal lights blinking, Mostly 1, occasionally 2, on the heaviest of sounds, the explosions, the building falling, etc, then the third signal light was tickling. Never any clip lights, not once. I understand I'm leaving some juice on the table by only giving these subs about 1,000 watts each, but with eight of them going - but I won't be lacking for output in my 24x18 foot theater room..


The ohm rating on these subs is appears aggressive because as stated earlier, the only time the sub will get down to the 4ohm impedance is ~8hz or below. The iNuke DSP 6000 isn't supposed to work with a 2ohm load per channel (4 and 4 wired in parallel), but because of the impedance graph of these Ultimax subs, I decided to give it a try. I'm glad I did.


Eight of these Ultimax 18" subs (2K), and two iNuke DSP 6000 amps ($800) makes a world beater setup on a extraordinarily cheap budget.
Good to hear. I was planning on running these wired up as 3 ohms on the inuke myself. I won't be able to afford a second amp, so this is definitely welcome news.
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post #745 of 1058 Old 08-24-2014, 10:50 AM
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What theater speaker builds (left, right, center, and 2 surrounds) would you recommend that would keep up with one of these 18's on an inuke 3000?

Edit: They'll be on a Marantz SR7008...

Last edited by mlah384; 08-24-2014 at 10:56 AM.
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post #746 of 1058 Old 08-24-2014, 11:05 AM
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mlah384,


I can't recommend Mackie C200 hard enough for a budget home theater cinema build. I had a friend, stitch1 come over last night and he wanted to compare my nine impulse buy Mackie C200 to my JTR 228HT. After about 3 hours of back and forth A/B testing - we determined The JTR 228HT were only a little noticeably superior at actual reference volumes for movies and music. At lesser volumes they probably could be swapped out without much notice. The JTR consistently had about a 1.5 dB peak advantage at reference volumes when comparing directly with the omnimic on the same scenes - meaning the JTR are capable of a bit more true dynamics at reference, but only slightly more. JTR 228HT cost > $1k shipped. Mackie C200 are $200 each shipped. Stitch1 said if he was going to buy speakers right now it's a no brainer. I preferred my 228HT, but I admit some of my preference is probably owner bias because they were much closer than I expected. Playing Book of Eli gun fights on the Mackie C200 at reference volume (sans subs for the A/B comparison) is ridiculously good for the price. Completely clean - no breakup or distortion. Try reference volume on any typical Polk, Klipsch, or Pioneer budget $200 home cinema speaker with soft dome tweeters. The tweeter will start breaking up and dynamics will suck. He is borrowing five of my Mackie C200s right now to compare to his SVS cinema at home, but he already admitted he knows how that will turn out. The Mackie c200 will destroy his SVS. If you aren't terribly worried about the look of a speaker - Truly, there is ridiculous value in a modern high quality PA speaker for home cinema use.

96dB sensitivity rating means your Marantz receiver will easily drive them. 118dB max SPL means, 105dB reference volumes will easily be met. Set your crossover to the subs at 90hz -120hz and have fun. (Mackie C200 -3dB point is 90hz)

Read some reviews:
https://www.google.com/search?q=mack...-US:IE-Address

I'm using four currently as surround speakers. (JTR 228HT are front soundstage)
The Mackies are mounted with a simple single shelf mount from Home Depot.
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"Without subs it's just background music - with subs it's the main event!"
Archaea's Theatre Room
2011 KC Sub Shootout
2012 KC Blind Sub Shootout
My Subwoofer Recommendations by Pricepoint

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post #747 of 1058 Old 08-24-2014, 12:03 PM
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I'm happy to report that the iNuke DSP 6000 amp can apparently run two Ultimax's per side for home theater use.


I watched Through the Never (Metallica concert) tonight with a friend with just four of my UM18-22 subs hooked up to a single iNuke DSP 6000 amp. I've not yet got the other four installed. The subs were basically within +/-3dB to 10hz through external EQ using my Symetrix 551E and verified using omnimic measurements. We watched the concert at -5dB from reference with the subs about 6dB hot. The amp never spun up the fans, and I checked on it during some of the most intense scenes and there were two of three signal lights blinking, Mostly 1, occasionally 2, on the heaviest of sounds, the explosions, the building falling, etc, then the third signal light was tickling. Never any clip lights, not once. I understand I'm leaving some juice on the table by only giving these subs about 1,000 watts each, but with eight of them going - I won't be lacking for output in my 24x18 foot theater room..


The ohm rating on these subs is appears aggressive because as stated earlier, the only time the sub will get down to the 4ohm impedance is ~8hz or below. The iNuke DSP 6000 isn't supposed to work with a 2ohm load per channel (4 and 4 wired in parallel), but because of the impedance graph of these Ultimax subs, I decided to give it a try. I'm glad I did.


Eight of these Ultimax 18" subs (2K), and two iNuke DSP 6000 amps ($800) makes a world beater setup on a comparatively cheap budget.
Nice man! Can't wait until you fire up all 8 .
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post #748 of 1058 Old 08-24-2014, 12:30 PM
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All boxed up JUST now -


Now to connect the second iNuke amp to the second four.


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"Without subs it's just background music - with subs it's the main event!"
Archaea's Theatre Room
2011 KC Sub Shootout
2012 KC Blind Sub Shootout
My Subwoofer Recommendations by Pricepoint

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post #749 of 1058 Old 08-24-2014, 12:38 PM
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Well...its been 8 min c'mon man give us an update.
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Current Gear: PJ – BenQ PE7700; Receiver - Onkyo TX-SR805; Blu Ray - OppoBDP 103; Turntable - Dual CS-515 w/ Ortofon Super OM10; Amplifiers - OdysseyKhartago, Adcom GFA555, QSC RMX 1850HD; PEQ - Behringer FBD2496 [Near FieldSub], miniDSP 2×4 [Flanking Subs], REW; Speakers - 4 Pi (w/B&C DE250/JBL2226H) × 3 [LCR], Yamaha Crap × 2 [surrounds], Exodus Audio Maelstrom-X18" sealed sub [near field sub], LAB-12 based ported sub tuned to 22 Hz x2 [flanking subs, XO set at 40 Hz]
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post #750 of 1058 Old 08-24-2014, 01:18 PM
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Well...its been 8 min c'mon man give us an update.
That's what I'm saying.
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Reply DIY Speakers and Subs

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Dayton Audio Um18 22 18 Ultimax Dvc Subwoofer 2 Ohms Per Coil

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