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post #1 of 20 Old 11-17-2013, 03:05 PM - Thread Starter
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I'm looking to build two subs around 18" LMS Ultras. I've built a THT in the past and don't really want to get into making the cabinet for these. Is there someone out there that can make or recommend a good cabinet maker? I've seen people use ED in the past with good results but have been unable to find someone still in business that can do the job. Is there an optimal size for the cabinets? I've seen 21x21x21 in a few builds that seem to have went well. I'm looking to do two separate cabinets.

I also have two EP4000's. Will the subs be woefully underpowered with these amps? I'm debating selling them for an FP14000 clone.

Thanks for all of the help,

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post #2 of 20 Old 11-17-2013, 03:26 PM
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Check out diysoundgroup's flat pack sub box offering here, it's an 18" cutout, I'm uncertain how it works out for the LMS, but everyone raves about the quality, and ease of assembly.

About the EP4000s, you could try them for sure, see what you think. They'd have 2kw@4ohms bridged, apiece, which is a nice amount, ... they certainly can use more power ... but if you already have the EPs, go for it and see if it's ample in your room.

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post #3 of 20 Old 11-17-2013, 03:31 PM - Thread Starter
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That looks like the way to go! Thanks for the response. Does anyone here have any experience with those enclosures and an LMS Ultra? Would it need additional bracing or do you think it would be good to go? At that price, it's definitely worth a try.
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post #4 of 20 Old 11-17-2013, 04:52 PM
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Imo it's good to go, looks all good.

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post #5 of 20 Old 11-17-2013, 05:11 PM
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I have two of the same subs in separate cabs, outer dimensions is near the 21"21"22" mark. If you want them to be very well built and also look great, Nathan Funk does custom boxes in any style you'd like. It is costly compared to the diy/flatpack, but worth it if you want top class build and looks... that is where mine both came from wink.gif
I'm not trying to take anything away from the flatpack, as it is a fantastic value and quality piece from all accounts - just different approaches for different goals.

As for the ep4000 - I too used those amps for these subs. The result was good, but not great. The drivers have a lot more to give, especially down in the below 15Hz range than the behringer's can produce. I eventually went with the LG clone amp and it is remarkably more output. To do it again I would skip the behringer's and roll the dice on another clone.
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post #6 of 20 Old 11-18-2013, 07:25 PM
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The EP4000's will be the limiting factor. You can try it, but I'm sure you'll come to the same conclusion.
Go with the clone.
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post #7 of 20 Old 11-18-2013, 08:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyneric View Post

I'm looking to build two subs around 18" LMS Ultras. I've built a THT in the past and don't really want to get into making the cabinet for these. Is there someone out there that can make or recommend a good cabinet maker? I've seen people use ED in the past with good results but have been unable to find someone still in business that can do the job. Is there an optimal size for the cabinets? I've seen 21x21x21 in a few builds that seem to have went well. I'm looking to do two separate cabinets.

I also have two EP4000's. Will the subs be woefully underpowered with these amps? I'm debating selling them for an FP14000 clone.

Thanks for all of the help,

Cyneric

I would not bother with the EP 4000s. Best advice is sell them and get a clone amp.
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post #8 of 20 Old 11-19-2013, 03:25 AM
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You can email or call the guys at caraudiofactory.com for a quote on a custom box. They do great work and their prices are very reasonable. They built me a 10 cubic ft box with triple baffle for only $215.
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post #9 of 20 Old 11-19-2013, 11:37 AM - Thread Starter
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I just sent an e-mail to Sanway to inquire about the FP14000. It sounds like that is the route I will end up going as far as amplification.

For enclosures, I've checked with everyone recommended except for caraudiofactory.com. DIYSoundgroup said they were unsure if the LMS Ultra would fit because of the depth of the sub. I guess that is remedied quickly by taking some MDF out after it's built but I'd rather not go that route if I don't have too. Hopefully they will get back with me soon on whether or not it fits.

Swolephile, do you have pictures of the box that caraudiofactory.com built? I'm interested in something that is both affordable but looks professional. I plan on owning these for a long time and don't want something reminiscent of what I've had in my cars in the past.

Thanks everyone,

Cyneric
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post #10 of 20 Old 11-22-2013, 10:27 PM
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I'm jealous... Wish I was at this stage. I currently have a SVS Pb-13 ultra ultra and hope to someday go the diy route with the Lms but my biggest hold back is the apparent need for a dedicated 30 amp circuit for the amp. Can anyone give me some info on that that subject?
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post #11 of 20 Old 11-23-2013, 07:25 AM
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Originally Posted by Billyanow View Post

I'm jealous... Wish I was at this stage. I currently have a SVS Pb-13 ultra ultra and hope to someday go the diy route with the Lms but my biggest hold back is the apparent need for a dedicated 30 amp circuit for the amp. Can anyone give me some info on that that subject?

You don't need a 30A circuit. That is, unless you plan on torture testing things.
Modern breakers are designed to handle short bursts of larger loads.

I am running two pro amps, a receiver, and tv off of one 20A circuit and hit 120+ dbs in a huge room all day long and have never tripped a breaker.
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post #12 of 20 Old 11-23-2013, 07:52 AM
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+1

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post #13 of 20 Old 11-23-2013, 07:53 AM
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also, iirc erich might have some ported flat pack for the 18's coming out. that would be killer for the lmsu.

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post #14 of 20 Old 11-23-2013, 07:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jpmst3 View Post

You don't need a 30A circuit.
Modern breakers are designed to handle short bursts of larger loads.

I am running two pro amps,a receiver, and tv off of one 25A circuit and hit 120+ dbs all day long and have never tripped a breaker.

+1

Due to motors requiring large amounts of current at start up, etc., breakers can pass mammoth amounts of current for brief periods of time, ... brief, yeah, but still entirely long enough to supply your gear without nuisance tripping.

I've experimented thusly, and powered everything I could find in my room on one circuit. All my front end gear, like my big Onkyo 5509 pre/pro, the rest of my stack, two high power, gaming PCs workstations, 65" plasma display, my entire active sound system comprised of (4)1kw surrounds, (3)2 kw LCRs, (2) 2kw EP4000 amplifiers, (2)2.4kw amps for subwoofers, all that ... no tripping.

For obvious safety reasons, I certainly don't recommend doing so, but the breaker will pass a great deal more than one thinks.

Typical residential breakers, like a 20amp circuit breaker;
Can pass 7-8 times the rated 20amp trip amount, .. for up to a second or more.
It can pass up to 3x the rated amount for up to 10sec or so.
The same 20amp circuit, can allow up to 1.5-2times the rated amount for a period extending as long as 30 seconds.

~140-160amps for up to 1 sec
~60amps for about 10secs
~30-40amps for as long as 30secs
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post #15 of 20 Old 11-23-2013, 08:43 PM
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My non-sub gear draws ~581watts RMS (on mute) or 5amps, according to my UPS. Which is rated for 1200watts RMS.



Which includes an:
Emotiva XSP-1 pre-amp, OPPO 105 Bluray/DAC, 2 Behringer EQ's, 3 cleanboxes, my HTPC, my projector, 3 1kW Class-D amps, HDMI matrixer, cable box, network router, power relay controller boxes, a camera charger, and a phone charger, then, all that plugged into to a ~60% efficiency power regenerator.

All THAT powered by my UPS, which runs on a 20amp breaker @ 120volts.

I have 6 bass amplifiers (Like Lab Gruppen clones etc), which draws about 1000watts RMS on mute, and 2000watts RMS at high SPL.

My entire theater (including 1 row of lights, but no heater or AC, or popcorn) draws about 3000watts RMS at high-SPL and under 1600watts RMS on mute.

The theater sub-panel is a 100amp@240v service, which is good for 24000watts RMS.

So there you have it.
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post #16 of 20 Old 11-25-2013, 12:04 PM
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Thanks gentleman! I wanted to do this but wasn't able to afford to have an electrician run the wiring in my house so that it would be possible to run a clone amp. But now that I know this I'm very excited because it will actually be attainable on my budget :-)
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post #17 of 20 Old 11-25-2013, 12:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Billyanow View Post

Thanks gentleman! I wanted to do this but wasn't able to afford to have an electrician run the wiring in my house so that it would be possible to run a clone amp. But now that I know this I'm very excited because it will actually be attainable on my budget :-)

Good deal!

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post #18 of 20 Old 11-25-2013, 03:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BassThatHz View Post

My non-sub gear draws ~581watts RMS (on mute) or 5amps, according to my UPS. Which is rated for 1200watts RMS.

The theater sub-panel is a 100amp@240v service, which is good for 24000watts RMS.

I know your out-building is a little different than most sub-panel examples, but in any case, it is prudent to feed a very high power HT with a sub-panel.

fwiw, you likely know this but there's no such thing as watts RMS

RMS can be affixed to voltage and amperage, but not power. (iirc, some 70's legislation in ascribed rms to amplifier ratings, once again ... our leaders at work rolleyes.gif )

For example, US household branch circuit voltage is 120v RMS, 170v peak-to-peak.

So with AC, 120v = 70.7% of 170VAC p-p.

RMS to peak (1.414)
Peak to RMS (.707)

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post #19 of 20 Old 11-26-2013, 05:41 PM
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I was talking RMS volts * RMS amps FYI, so it's "sort of" RMS watts, RMS VA? LOL... close-enough/good-enough for me wink.gif
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post #20 of 20 Old 11-27-2013, 08:31 AM - Thread Starter
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Good info on amperage and being able to run the FP14000 on a 20A circuit. I hadn't even really considered that issue.

After some more reading, I'm wondering if I should just do a single JTR OS or dual 5400's in the 4 cu ft. sealed enclosures. Does anyone have any experience with those setups? I'd be curious to hear some opinions and pros and cons.
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