inuke volts needed - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 13 Old 11-24-2013, 11:16 AM - Thread Starter
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I am having a hard time understanding this pro amp thing. I really want to pull the trigger but am not sure if I will need a booster like a artbox or similar product. Have a Yamaha rx- v567. It says in the manual it puts out 1.0 v ffom the the subwoofer out Jack. Will this be enough for the inuke to run properly? Like I said I hate to jump in and then find out I don't have what it takes for it to work.
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post #2 of 13 Old 11-24-2013, 11:24 AM
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I have two clean boxes available for $35 each free shipping each.
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post #3 of 13 Old 11-24-2013, 12:08 PM
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Every AVR I have measured or seen the schematic for has more than enough output to drive most pro amps. My Onkyos will put out about 8V.
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I have two clean boxes available for $35 each free shipping each.
Wouldn't it be be more useful to the OP to actually answer his question rather than just flog your leftovers?
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post #4 of 13 Old 11-24-2013, 12:27 PM - Thread Starter
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Thanks. So are you saying that mine may put out more than it says? I do you use a ed eq.2 before my amps but o can't find any solid info that it would give me any boost. Also is there a way to check the volts at the end of my sub cable with a meter. Thanks I am just trying to figure it all out.
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post #5 of 13 Old 11-24-2013, 12:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SULLY12 View Post

Thanks. So are you saying that mine may put out more than it says?
Yes, because it doesn't give the conditions it was measured under.
Which inuke do you have?
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Originally Posted by SULLY12 View Post

I do you use a ed eq.2 before my amps but o can't find any solid info that it would give me any boost.
I have no idea what this means. Could I have it in English please?
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Also is there a way to check the volts at the end of my sub cable with a meter. Thanks I am just trying to figure it all out.
Yes. Run a test signal through your system at a known level, eg 0dBFS (digital full scale) and measure with a DMM. There are test discs out there that will give you the test signal.
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post #6 of 13 Old 11-24-2013, 12:58 PM - Thread Starter
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Im looking at the 1000 or 3000. Without dsp. The elemental designs EQ.2 is what I use now as a sub eq bit I am not sure if it actually boost the signal from the receiver.
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post #7 of 13 Old 11-25-2013, 03:29 AM
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Originally Posted by A9X-308 View Post

Yes, because it doesn't give the conditions it was measured under.
Which inuke do you have?
I have no idea what this means. Could I have it in English please?
Yes. Run a test signal through your system at a known level, eg 0dBFS (digital full scale) and measure with a DMM. There are test discs out there that will give you the test signal.

Can a 0dbfs test tone be downloaded? If so, where? When using a 0dbfs test tone to measure the receivers subwoofer pre-out voltage, what is the proper way to adjust the volume on the receiver so as to get a test tone that is loud enough, but not over 0dbfs?

Also, I am assuming that the DMM is a digital multimeter? Can a cheap one from Wal-Mart or Radio Shack work ok for this? What do you set the multimeter to and where should the probes be positioned at for the reading?

I would really like to measure the subwoofer pre-outs on my Denon AVR-3310, just for fun!
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post #8 of 13 Old 11-25-2013, 06:15 AM
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Information regarding the gain structure, how to measure AVR output and test signals can all be found at the link below.

http://www.hometheatershack.com/forums/home-theater-receivers-processors-amps/35677-gain-structure-home-theater-getting-most-pro-audio-equipment-your-system.html
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post #9 of 13 Old 11-25-2013, 07:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Martycool007 View Post

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Originally Posted by A9X-308 View Post

Yes, because it doesn't give the conditions it was measured under.
Which inuke do you have?
I have no idea what this means. Could I have it in English please?
Yes. Run a test signal through your system at a known level, eg 0dBFS (digital full scale) and measure with a DMM. There are test discs out there that will give you the test signal.

Can a 0dbfs test tone be downloaded? If so, where?

They are all over the web. Either a .wav file or a MP3 file can do the job if you are playing the file on a computer. You can also burn the file to a CD and play that on your BD or CD player. Google is your friend.

You can also roll-your-own with the freeware Audacity audio editor. Then the level and frequency is up to you.
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When using a 0dbfs test tone to measure the receivers subwoofer pre-out voltage, what is the proper way to adjust the volume on the receiver so as to get a test tone that is loud enough, but not over 0dbfs?

You want to set the internal channel gains on your receiver for the desired output voltage at the preamp's or AVRs output.
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Also, I am assuming that the DMM is a digital multimeter? Can a cheap one from Wal-Mart or Radio Shack work ok for this? What do you set the multimeter to and where should the probes be positioned at for the reading?

Here is what I use for such *adventures*



The Uni-T UT61E DMM shown runs about $60 and has the advantage of having frequency response +/- 0.1 dB over the audio range which cheaper meters don't usually have. In fact its pretty standard for multimeters to cut their response off at a few 100 Hz because they are for measuring power line voltage, eh? You can find lots of retailers on the web that stock the UT61E on eBay, Amazon and the web in general.

As you can see I made my own test cable. I recommend getting a mono dual RCA cable and cutting it in half. Attach a double-banana plug to the cut end. Use this for measuring line level signals. Cut the other RCA plug off of the other one and attach double banana plugs to each end. Use this for measuring the output of power amps and inputs to speakers.

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I would really like to measure the subwoofer pre-outs on my Denon AVR-3310, just for fun!
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post #10 of 13 Old 11-25-2013, 08:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Martycool007 View Post

Can a 0dbfs test tone be downloaded? If so, where?
There are discs available commercially with test signals.
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Originally Posted by Martycool007 View Post

When using a 0dbfs test tone to measure the receivers subwoofer pre-out voltage, what is the proper way to adjust the volume on the receiver so as to get a test tone that is loud enough, but not over 0dbfs?
As all level control in modern AVRs is entirely in the DSP, you should not be able to exceed 0dBFS with any signal.
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Originally Posted by Martycool007 View Post

Also, I am assuming that the DMM is a digital multimeter? Can a cheap one from Wal-Mart or Radio Shack work ok for this? What do you set the multimeter to and where should the probes be positioned at for the reading?
AC volts and the pre out RCA for the channel you want to test. Cheapo meters are fine for LF where they are intended to be used, because most of the use of these sort of meters is measuring 50 or 60Hz mains. Many (most) will lose accuracy above a couple of hundred Hz until you get into the better true RMS meters (check bandwidth in specs) like my Fluke 187/287.
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post #11 of 13 Old 11-25-2013, 05:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Martycool007 View Post

Can a 0dbfs test tone be downloaded? If so, where? When using a 0dbfs test tone to measure the receivers subwoofer pre-out voltage, what is the proper way to adjust the volume on the receiver so as to get a test tone that is loud enough, but not over 0dbfs?

You can use AC3filter and any 60hz tone-generator set to 0dFS and any computer with Coax/Optical output to test this. (AC3filter channel mapping or forced LFE routing settings).

It is not possible to exceed 0dFS (digital full scale) because all the bits are 1's
i.e.: 11111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111 smile.gif
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post #12 of 13 Old 11-26-2013, 03:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by arnyk View Post

They are all over the web. Either a .wav file or a MP3 file can do the job if you are playing the file on a computer. You can also burn the file to a CD and play that on your BD or CD player. Google is your friend.

You can also roll-your-own with the freeware Audacity audio editor. Then the level and frequency is up to you.
You want to set the internal channel gains on your receiver for the desired output voltage at the preamp's or AVRs output.
Here is what I use for such *adventures*



The Uni-T UT61E DMM shown runs about $60 and has the advantage of having frequency response +/- 0.1 dB over the audio range which cheaper meters don't usually have. In fact its pretty standard for multimeters to cut their response off at a few 100 Hz because they are for measuring power line voltage, eh? You can find lots of retailers on the web that stock the UT61E on eBay, Amazon and the web in general.

As you can see I made my own test cable. I recommend getting a mono dual RCA cable and cutting it in half. Attach a double-banana plug to the cut end. Use this for measuring line level signals. Cut the other RCA plug off of the other one and attach double banana plugs to each end. Use this for measuring the output of power amps and inputs to speakers.

You say, "you want to set the channel gains on your receiver to the desired output voltage"

I am so lost on this. How do I know what the output voltage on the channel trims are? Also, I am still highly confused on how to play a 0dbfs tone out of the AVR? I get that it would be easy to download a test tone, but how do I know what volume level to set the AVR at on both the master volume knob, and the channel trims? I have read that link on HTS many times over the past couple of years, and it has never made seance to me. LoL!

Would it not be as simple as setting the subwoofer channel trim to 0 then setting the master volume to max, and measure the voltage coming out of the subwoofer pre-out jack on the back of the AVR with a digital multimeter? That would give the maximum output voltage, correct?
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post #13 of 13 Old 11-26-2013, 06:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Martycool007 View Post


You say, "you want to set the channel gains on your receiver to the desired output voltage"

I am so lost on this. How do I know what the output voltage on the channel trims are?

Measure it with the DMM on its AC range.

As I understand, your goal is to set the gains on your AVR to be sufficient to drive your external power amps to full output.

Do you know what input voltage your power amp needs to be driven to the desired power output? Target that.
Quote:
Also, I am still highly confused on how to play a 0dbfs tone out of the AVR? I get that it would be easy to download a test tone, but how do I know what volume level to set the AVR at on both the master volume knob, and the channel trims?

You must have a preferred setting of the AVR for "Full tilt boogie", IOW peak output SPL. Usde that.

The object of the process is to set the channel trims so that the preamp outputs of the AVR are sufficient to drive your external power amps to full output or something like it.
Quote:
Would it not be as simple as setting the subwoofer channel trim to 0 then setting the master volume to max, and measure the voltage coming out of the subwoofer pre-out jack on the back of the AVR with a digital multimeter?

Good starting point.
Quote:
That would give the maximum output voltage, correct?

Well that would be the maximum output voltage for the given setting of the channel trim. The goal is to find a channel trim setting that will be appropriate for your power amp, no?
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