Defining Actual Value Creation of DIY Speaker/Subs - AVS Forum
Forum Jump: 
 
Thread Tools
post #1 of 9 Old 11-29-2013, 10:35 AM - Thread Starter
Member
 
Chuckinbeast's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 54
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
So I am considering an SVS sub purchase and started to look into DIY and it has piqued my interest. After checking the FAQ thread and few others, the answer to question I have really isn't slapping my in the face. So let me frame this general question with a specific example:

If I wanted to achieve the same performance as an SVS PB13-Ultra, what would the savings be by DIY'ing and would you realistically be able to match that performance? Obviously there appears to be quite a bit of engineering going into these products and its somewhat befuddling to me that it would be so easy to reproduce. Is most of the draw to DIY'ing just pride or are there real value creation opportunities? It seems nearly impossible considering the investment these companies make into antiecho chambers, serious measuring equipment etc versus REW and a calibrated UMM-6. Can anyone provide empirical evidence of their sub builds actually creating value versus what is readily available?

Really wanting to do a project, push me over the edge!
Chuckinbeast is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 9 Old 11-29-2013, 10:51 AM
AVS Addicted Member
 
LTD02's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 16,121
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 198 Post(s)
Liked: 914
well, it depends how bad you want to crush an ultra.

the easiest way that I can think of off the top of my head is a pair of stereo integrity 18ht drivers, dual 4 ohm.

one inuke 3000 dsp amplifier for about 1100 watts per channel into 2 ohms and full function digital signal processing.

and a pair of these silly enclosures:

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1489541/large-ported-dayton-ho18s#post_23711347

performance of two svs ultras for less than $1k?
Scott Simonian and Rebel975 like this.

Listen. It's All Good.
LTD02 is offline  
post #3 of 9 Old 11-29-2013, 01:27 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Mrkazador's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 3,839
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 38 Post(s)
Liked: 250

If you already have the tools to build an enclosure then you can save some money, plus its fun!

 

Four of these

http://www.parts-express.com/dayton-audio-18-reference-series-ho-subwoofer-and-cabinet-package--300-7094

 

inuke 6000 with DSP

http://www.parts-express.com/behringer-nu6000dsp-inuke-6000w-lightweight-power-amplifier-with-dsp--248-6710

 

Thats $1800. To go even cheaper you can build your own enclosures, MDF is about $30 a sheet and you'll probably need about 4 sheets.

 

 

 

 

If you don't mind the size, there are these subs

 

http://www.billfitzmaurice.com/THT.html

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1329971/lilmikes-cinema-f-20/0_100

http://www.data-bass.com/data?page=system&id=45

Mrkazador is offline  
post #4 of 9 Old 11-29-2013, 03:14 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Bill Fitzmaurice's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: New Hampshire
Posts: 9,484
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 1286
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chuckinbeast View Post

If I wanted to achieve the same performance as an SVS PB13-Ultra, what would the savings be by DIY'ing and would you realistically be able to match that performance? !
That's not really all that high a bar to clear, and you should have no difficulty doing it at half the price of the SVS with a fifteen or eighteen loaded direct radiator, and half that again with a folded horn, if you have the room for it.

Bill Fitzmaurice Loudspeaker Design

The Laws of Physics aren't swayed by opinion.
Bill Fitzmaurice is online now  
post #5 of 9 Old 11-29-2013, 03:47 PM
AVS Special Member
 
chalugadp's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Vancouver, BC, Canada
Posts: 4,425
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 616 Post(s)
Liked: 876
Bill ,
The SPL chart on your site for the tht sub has a 20 hz measurement of 100db.
The svs ultra and the martysub I built have a 20 hz SPL of 115 db. Does that graph not include room gain ?
chalugadp is offline  
post #6 of 9 Old 11-29-2013, 05:41 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
Chuckinbeast's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 54
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
So after reading these links you all linked (thanks by the way), it appears ridiculously easy to get flat response and deep extension. The whole DIY subwoofer thing comes down to a few basic calculations, quite a bit of labor (especially if you want it to look like something), and the trade off of volume. Giving up the volume is precisely what a company distributing these products can't do because of the shipping costs involved, so this makes sense.

What program are people using to run various scenarios of the basic sub parameters? I have a 18'x20'x12' (4320 cubic feet) great room in a relatively open concept house, so the total volume is much higher. I usually watch movies at -10db to -20db as the kids are sleeping typically, so ultimately output is less important than extension. I can certainly be reasonably large when it comes to volume but nothing egregious. I'd like to play around with a program to build something to suit my needs.
Chuckinbeast is offline  
post #7 of 9 Old 11-29-2013, 07:30 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Bill Fitzmaurice's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: New Hampshire
Posts: 9,484
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 1286
Quote:
Originally Posted by chalugadp View Post

Bill ,
The SPL chart on your site for the tht sub has a 20 hz measurement of 100db.
The svs ultra and the martysub I built have a 20 hz SPL of 115 db. Does that graph not include room gain ?
Mine is at one watt, corner loaded but no cabin gain, as that depends on the room.

Bill Fitzmaurice Loudspeaker Design

The Laws of Physics aren't swayed by opinion.
Bill Fitzmaurice is online now  
post #8 of 9 Old 11-30-2013, 12:32 AM
AVS Addicted Member
 
LTD02's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 16,121
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 198 Post(s)
Liked: 914
https://www.facebook.com/WinISD

to enter driver parameters:

make sure all fields are clear, then
enter qes then hit tab, enter qms
hit tab a couple times and let it calculate qts
hit tab a few times to move to mms
enter mms, re, bl, le, sd, xmax, and pe
by using tab after entering each data, it will calculate what it needs to
i no longer get any conflicts
sometimes the specs calculated don't match exactly the manufacturer specs, but its only rounding type errors, so it is not material

it will make more sense once you fire it up.
MemX likes this.

Listen. It's All Good.
LTD02 is offline  
post #9 of 9 Old 11-30-2013, 11:26 AM
Senior Member
 
mobeer4don's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 444
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 12 Post(s)
Liked: 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chuckinbeast View Post

So after reading these links you all linked (thanks by the way), it appears ridiculously easy to get flat response and deep extension. The whole DIY subwoofer thing comes down to a few basic calculations, quite a bit of labor (especially if you want it to look like something), and the trade off of volume. Giving up the volume is precisely what a company distributing these products can't do because of the shipping costs involved, so this makes sense.

DIY or commercial, it is all about making compromises. With DIY, you have more control over the compromises. Size and weight are obvious places to compromise for some commercial offerings. Of course, if you space limited it just easy for the DIY guy to design for a smaller sealed enclosure, pick a high-excursion driver, and throw 5kW of power at it. It will cost more for similar performance but budget is just another place to compromise.

Cosmetics can be a big issue. Furniture quality cabinet construction and finishing is not trivial. But you are in fine shape if you can deal with a basic black box with a textured duratex finish and a basic grill cloth cover. Of course many commercial offerings are vinyl-covered basic boxes until you spend serious cash.
LTD02 likes this.
mobeer4don is offline  
Reply DIY Speakers and Subs

Tags
Svs Pb13 Ultra

User Tag List

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off