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post #1 of 37 Old 12-10-2013, 06:26 PM - Thread Starter
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Well I just found out some sad news as I really wanted to use their SP1-4000 amp in a dual FTW-21 build that I really wanted to do. I guess recently SpeakerPower took their prices off of their web page and now have jacked up the prices of the amps that they do sell directly to the public to protect their OEM market.

Last month I was going to pick up a the SP1-4000, which was priced at $1299 but got a price back from Brian at SP and it's now $2517 plus shipping! eek.gif

There goes that idea!...LOL
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post #2 of 37 Old 12-10-2013, 07:38 PM
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How much juice do you need for those Texas 21's ?
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post #3 of 37 Old 12-10-2013, 08:02 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by chalugadp View Post

How much juice do you need for those Texas 21's ?

I think I'd want to put at least 1200watts per driver. 2000watts would be better.
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post #4 of 37 Old 12-10-2013, 08:04 PM
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Don't collapse my power grid biggrin.gif
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post #5 of 37 Old 12-10-2013, 08:09 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by chalugadp View Post

Don't collapse my power grid biggrin.gif

Haha, I'll try not too. Man I'm a little bummed out about the SpeakerPower amp situation, I was really looking forward to buying one to power both subs. Doing a master/slave combo with the 4000watt amp like what Seaton does. Oh well time to figure something else out frown.gif
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post #6 of 37 Old 12-10-2013, 08:20 PM
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I always figured they were overpriced from the beginning in my opinion. Too many pro amps with equal or more power for much less money.
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post #7 of 37 Old 12-10-2013, 08:24 PM - Thread Starter
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I always figured they were overpriced from the beginning in my opinion. Too many pro amps with equal or more power for much less money.

I was willing to pay the premium price that they cost because I wanted a really powerful plate amp that I could install in the subs rather then having a loud pro amp at my AV rack which is very close to the seating in my room. Plus everything I have run for wiring is in the walls so I didn't really want any hassles of trying to hide the wire from the amp to the subs.

But there's no way I'd pay the asking price that they are trying to charge now. I guess this is SpeakerPower's way of saying they no longer sell direct to the public. rolleyes.gif
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post #8 of 37 Old 12-10-2013, 08:31 PM
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Looks like it. I personally dont trust plate amps. Most Ive seen always seem to have problems in five years or less. Pro amps can cause more mess but there are so many well built old school amps that last a decade or more but still work just fine. I would never trust any plate amp to last that long.
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post #9 of 37 Old 12-10-2013, 08:32 PM
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damn.. huge bummer. been flip flopping on those for a minute now. guess my decision has been made.
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post #10 of 37 Old 12-10-2013, 08:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jbrown15 View Post

Haha, I'll try not too. Man I'm a little bummed out about the SpeakerPower amp situation, I was really looking forward to buying one to power both subs. Doing a master/slave combo with the 4000watt amp like what Seaton does. Oh well time to figure something else out frown.gif

Damn. This sucks. I was actually wanting to do the exact same thing at some point down the road.

Guess I never will, now....


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post #11 of 37 Old 12-10-2013, 08:53 PM
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anyone have any insight as to how big an oem order needs to be?
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post #12 of 37 Old 12-10-2013, 09:41 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Swolephile View Post

Looks like it. I personally dont trust plate amps. Most Ive seen always seem to have problems in five years or less. Pro amps can cause more mess but there are so many well built old school amps that last a decade or more but still work just fine. I would never trust any plate amp to last that long.

Normally I would agree with you but if you're not familiar with SpeakerPower amps I'd have to say that they are the top of the food chain as far as plate amps go. These are the same amps used by Seaton, JTR, PSA and Danley on their subs.....lol I can't believe how bummed out I am about this.....LOL
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post #13 of 37 Old 12-10-2013, 09:59 PM
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So I guess you won't be needing my shop to build subs ... eek.gifeek.gifeek.gif
Your deposit is non-refundable. tongue.gif:p
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post #14 of 37 Old 12-10-2013, 10:15 PM
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well, if pro amps are back in, why not go for an inuke 6000 dsp, 2200 watts per channel into 4 ohms, full featured dsp, street price around $500. fan mod is possible. better option would be remote placement.

i'm not entirely surprised that speakerpower made that move. the dsp version of their amps were already oem only. i suppose they figure that is their best path to long term stability.

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post #15 of 37 Old 12-10-2013, 10:23 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by chalugadp View Post

So I guess you won't be needing my shop to build subs ... eek.gifeek.gifeek.gif
Your deposit is non-refundable. tongue.gif:p


Didn't I tell you I need you to give me a hand building all of the panels for my front false wall?....LOL
No I guess I'll just have to figure something else out for the amp.
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post #16 of 37 Old 12-10-2013, 10:28 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by LTD02 View Post

well, if pro amps are back in, why not go for an inuke 6000 dsp, 2200 watts per channel into 4 ohms, full featured dsp, street price around $500. fan mod is possible. better option would be remote placement.

i'm not entirely surprised that speakerpower made that move. the dsp version of their amps were already oem only. i suppose they figure that is their best path to long term stability.

You think that would be the best amp to use LTD02? Will one be enough to power two FTW-21 drivers? Or would I be looking at getting two? Any other suggestions to power those drivers without breaking the bank? I'd like to keep the cost to under $1500 to power both drivers, but that doesn't mean I have to spend the full $1500 either.

Yeah I figured they were going to go up, especially with Mark Seaton making mention of it on his forums with regards to the pricing going up on the SubM subs too. But I never thought it would be that much, $2517 plus shipping for the SP1-4000 or $2999 plus shipping for a JTR Cap S2 rolleyes.gif
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post #17 of 37 Old 12-10-2013, 11:14 PM
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the problem is that the driver is only rated for 1200 watts and that won't motivate it anywhere close to xmax in anywhere near a typical sized cabinet.

for example, in 8 cubic feet, 1200 watts gets it to about 23 mm, 2200 gets it to about 32 mm, with xmax being 34 mm and xmech being something more than that.

the next step up from there is probably something like the peavey ipr2 7500, but I haven't reviewed the dsp completely, so I can't say what you get (or don't). another option is the big old iron cerwin vega cv5000 (no dsp) that will get you 5000 watts into 4 ohms for around $700. you could run one per sub, but that may be asking for trouble depending on how the bottom end is filtered or not.

it is kind of hard to spec an amp when the conditions for the power rating on the driver aren't clear.

i suppose i'd suggest building a HYUUUGGE cabinet so all that swept volume can be taken advantage of without tons of power and then running a medium high power amp like the 6000dsp and filtering out whatever subharmonic content you determine adds nothing to your experience (if i'm allowed to say that) because that is where the driver goes almost fully resistive and maximum current is pulled through the driver.

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post #18 of 37 Old 12-10-2013, 11:15 PM
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post #19 of 37 Old 12-10-2013, 11:18 PM
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power through the ftw in 8 cubic feet with voltage to deliver 2200 watts into driver re and with 80hz 4th order low pass filter.

this roughly correlates with the amount of heat the coil will be facing at various frequencies with "2200 watts of power".


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post #20 of 37 Old 12-10-2013, 11:31 PM - Thread Starter
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Hmmm, N8DOGG is very familiar with the FTW-21 drivers and has then two. He was mentioning to me that the coils can handle 3000watts if I was using a small 6cu.ft box with them.
So you don't think that would be a good idea?
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post #21 of 37 Old 12-10-2013, 11:39 PM
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No, I don't think is a good idea at all. I'm using 6.5 cuft and can push them to their limits easily enough with fp10q 220v-1/channel which is much less than 3000 watts. No point in driving it past its limits. I have 8 of them and the mal 21 can handle a tad more power in small/medium enclosures but not by much.
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post #22 of 37 Old 12-10-2013, 11:44 PM
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LTD, what did you mean by the driver going resistive and pulling current? I have a feeling what you suspect is true but would like clarification before going further with my experiences.
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post #23 of 37 Old 12-10-2013, 11:48 PM - Thread Starter
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No, I don't think is a good idea at all. I'm using 6.5 cuft and can push them to their limits easily enough with fp10q 220v-1/channel which is much less than 3000 watts. No point in driving it past its limits. I have 8 of them and the mal 21 can handle a tad more power in small/medium enclosures but not by much.

Okay, well with keeping in mind that I was going to build sealed 6-6.5cu/ft enclosures what amp or amps would you recommend?

Would the Behringer NU3000DSP be more then enough to power two FTW-21's then?
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post #24 of 37 Old 12-10-2013, 11:49 PM
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I just happened along your thread jb, nice topic.. subscribed. cool.gif

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post #25 of 37 Old 12-11-2013, 12:11 AM
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"LTD, what did you mean by the driver going resistive and pulling current? I have a feeling what you suspect is true but would like clarification before going further with my experiences."

what i mean is that in a sealed enclosure there is a resonance. that resonance creates a large rise in efficiency and is reflected in impedance. around that point spl remains high with a constant voltage, but because impedance is high, current is actually quite low.

then the top end is protected with the low pass filter.

the bottom end however falls in impedance the closer that one goes into the lower frequencies. at single digits, the impedance of the system is about the same as the dc resistance of the driver, which is pulls the most current through the coil.

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post #26 of 37 Old 12-11-2013, 12:22 AM
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"I'm using 6.5 cuft and can push them to their limits easily enough with fp10q 220v-1/channel which is much less than 3000 watts."

the manual indicates max of 150 volts per channel and 38 amps peak. that is a lot more than 3000 watts, something like 5700 peak into 3.2 ohms (current limited).

http://labgruppen.com/media/downloads/product/TDS-FP10000Q_V5.pdf

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post #27 of 37 Old 12-11-2013, 02:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jbrown15 View Post

Okay, well with keeping in mind that I was going to build sealed 6-6.5cu/ft enclosures what amp or amps would you recommend?

Would the Behringer NU3000DSP be more then enough to power two FTW-21's then?

I'm in a similar boat as you, 2 FTW's from the pre-order, 2 sealed cabinets around 5.5-6cuft, and also Canadian wink.gif

One Inuke3000 bridged is perfect for one FTW, about 2000~ watts, but would be underpowering two of them, especially if you got the same FTW' s I do, they are single 4 ohm coils.
I decided to buy 2x Ep4000 because I found some locally for $280ish, one was fan modded for me already.

They are better buy then the Inukes, so long as you buy a MiniDSP to eq and don't need the inukes DSP. They play a bit lower without rolling off as well. ( I own the 3kDSP and 2x ep4k's)
To summarize:

2x Ep4000 bridged mono. One per FTW.
MiniDSP balanced if you want to EQ
2X http://www.digikey.com/product-search/en?vendor=0&keywords=3110sb-05w-b20-e00 To fan mod each amp so they are silent.

Comes down to the prices you can find them at, but this is what I'm doing / would do.

Cheers
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post #28 of 37 Old 12-11-2013, 08:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jbrown15 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by LTD02 View Post

well, if pro amps are back in, why not go for an inuke 6000 dsp, 2200 watts per channel into 4 ohms, full featured dsp, street price around $500. fan mod is possible. better option would be remote placement.

i'm not entirely surprised that speakerpower made that move. the dsp version of their amps were already oem only. i suppose they figure that is their best path to long term stability.

You think that would be the best amp to use LTD02? Will one be enough to power two FTW-21 drivers? Or would I be looking at getting two? Any other suggestions to power those drivers without breaking the bank? I'd like to keep the cost to under $1500 to power both drivers, but that doesn't mean I have to spend the full $1500 either.

Yeah I figured they were going to go up, especially with Mark Seaton making mention of it on his forums with regards to the pricing going up on the SubM subs too. But I never thought it would be that much, $2517 plus shipping for the SP1-4000 or $2999 plus shipping for a JTR Cap S2 rolleyes.gif

This was done along with the necessary price increases all of us OEMs are seeing as of January 1st. In the end with such higher priced items most DIYers ask endless questions and only a very few purchase. I suspect this will save them a lot of time, and hopefully keep my orders for amps flowing out the door more quickly.

PM or e-mail me and I should be able to help out with your quest for robust, fanless, subwoofer power.
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post #29 of 37 Old 12-11-2013, 08:40 AM - Thread Starter
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This was done along with the necessary price increases all of us OEMs are seeing as of January 1st. In the end with such higher priced items most DIYers ask endless questions and only a very few purchase. I suspect this will save them a lot of time, and hopefully keep my orders for amps flowing out the door more quickly.

PM or e-mail me and I should be able to help out with your quest for robust, fanless, subwoofer power.

That's pretty much what I figured, I knew there was a price increase coming because of what you had said in your Seaton forums but my jaw literally hit the floor when Brian gave me the price, especially knowing that if I had bought one last month it would of only cost $1299.

And I get it, he needs to protect his OEM market, I'm in sales for industrial automation and most of my business comes from huge OEM's. But man on man was it a shocker. I'll send you a pm when I get a chance Mark.
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post #30 of 37 Old 12-11-2013, 09:20 AM
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I know for a fact the FTWs coils can take over 3000 watts in a smaller 6cf box, no problems. The inuke 6000 is decent enough though it will clip like mad in the lower octaves. The Irp2 is what Id recom or a clone if your ok with the risk.

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