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post #301 of 557 Old 03-17-2014, 06:43 PM - Thread Starter
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Okay, here's another measurement with it turned down a little...lol smile.gif


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post #302 of 557 Old 03-17-2014, 06:50 PM
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It didn't seem that loud when I was there. :sly:
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post #303 of 557 Old 03-17-2014, 06:51 PM
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Not bad at all for just starting! What smoothing did you use? 1/12

Looks like you might get away with boosting the 70hz about 3-4db. should give ya nice house curve.
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post #304 of 557 Old 03-17-2014, 06:55 PM
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also when you go to take the measurement, a box will pop asking what range to measure, that should be left 0-20,000hz. then you can select what part of the graph you want to use after the sweep is taken.

post up that wterfall and spectogram when ya get a chance. smile.gif
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post #305 of 557 Old 03-17-2014, 07:00 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by basshead81 View Post

Not bad at all for just starting! What smoothing did you use? 1/12

Looks like you might get away with boosting the 70hz about 3-4db. should give ya nice house curve.

Yes 1/12th, I see to recall that you made mention that was the best to use right?

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post #306 of 557 Old 03-17-2014, 07:02 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by chalugadp View Post

It didn't seem that loud when I was there. :sly:

Yeah when we ran a sweep the UMIK mic seemed to be off by at least 10dB, I played around with it some more and was able to get it reading fine so I don't know what we did. Now it reads basically exactly what my hand held SPL meter reads.

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post #307 of 557 Old 03-17-2014, 07:05 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by basshead81 View Post

also when you go to take the measurement, a box will pop asking what range to measure, that should be left 0-20,000hz. then you can select what part of the graph you want to use after the sweep is taken.

post up that wterfall and spectogram when ya get a chance. smile.gif

it shows the Level (dB FS) at -12, should I leave it at that?

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post #308 of 557 Old 03-17-2014, 07:17 PM - Thread Starter
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Here's a waterfall measurement.



And here's a decay measurement.



Now I just need to learn what all of this means and how to optimize my setup. smile.gif

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post #309 of 557 Old 03-17-2014, 07:25 PM
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That bottom graph looks like my brain needing spring break
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post #310 of 557 Old 03-17-2014, 07:35 PM
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not bad...the waterfall shows the ringing which looksto be pretty high in the 10-30hz area. post the spectogram it will help show stored energy.
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post #311 of 557 Old 03-17-2014, 07:42 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by basshead81 View Post

not bad...the waterfall shows the ringing which looksto be pretty high in the 10-30hz area. post the spectogram it will help show stored energy.

Translation? English please...lol So what does that mean? I'm going to start doing room treatments soon too.

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post #312 of 557 Old 03-17-2014, 07:50 PM
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Originally Posted by jbrown15 View Post

Translation? English please...lol So what does that mean? I'm going to start doing room treatments soon too.

ringing basically means the sub is still producing sound when it should not. can make the sound muddy or boomy. I have the same thing in my room, it is just the acoustics. bass traps and room tratments are needed if you want to correct it.

if you post the spectogram it is easier to understand imo.
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post #313 of 557 Old 03-17-2014, 07:58 PM
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I'll try to pull the waterfall and rt graphs of my room to compare...............they're actually quite good.

 

But then....................... the room was acoustically designed, treated etc.........well, it does sound great with Triad speakers too.....................as it should!  :p

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post #314 of 557 Old 03-17-2014, 08:33 PM
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Originally Posted by chalugadp View Post

That bottom graph looks like my brain needing spring break

Goes good with the big brain in your Avatar wink.gif

Keep at it jb..

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post #315 of 557 Old 03-20-2014, 07:08 AM
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How is this coming? any updates? Get the other 2 subs done, wall treatments, new pics, new graphs with the 4? Really interested in how this turns out.

Also I read somewhere that you had a chance to compare the minions with your 228's, could you comment some on that. I haven't ordered my 228's yet but would be interested in what you thought.
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post #316 of 557 Old 03-20-2014, 08:37 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by BCRSS View Post

How is this coming? any updates? Get the other 2 subs done, wall treatments, new pics, new graphs with the 4? Really interested in how this turns out.

Also I read somewhere that you had a chance to compare the minions with your 228's, could you comment some on that. I haven't ordered my 228's yet but would be interested in what you thought.
Thanks

Slow and steady....lol

No real updates right now, still need to cut up the plywood to build the last two subs and get them put together. Once that's done I'll start to concentrate on getting room treatments up. smile.gif

The minions were nice, so its kind of hard to knock a speaker that cost $500 for a pair. We didn't listen to them as long as I would have liked too but really I think chalugadp was more interested in hearing my 228's. The loudest that we listened to my speakers was around -25, so we never really pushed them. But as most know the actually crystal clear dynamics of them doesn't change whether you are listening at -25 or at reference, that's one of the things that I love most about them. smile.gif

The minions sounded pretty good at lower volumes but as we started to turn them up I could start to hear the differences between the two. They were still pretty clear not in my opinion nothing like the 228's, and of course they lacked mid bass compared to the 228's also. The minions have a 92dB sensitivity while my speakers are 98dB, so 6dB difference. And I would think that was fairly accurate between the two as we listened to the 228's at -25 and I think we had the minions at -17.

Chalugadp felt that the minions were 85% of the 228's, I personally think that was a little optimistic because we never turned my speakers up loud. At the volumes we listened too I think 85% would be a fair assessment, but of course the louder things would have gotten the wider that margin would be in my opinion. But like I've said all along it should be that way considering the price difference, I mean the 228 uses a compression driver that costs $200 alone. That's almost the entire cost of the minion. I do think that anyone looking for a nice budget set of speakers would be extremely happy with the minions though. smile.gif
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post #317 of 557 Old 03-20-2014, 11:14 PM
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post #318 of 557 Old 03-20-2014, 11:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jbrown15 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by BCRSS View Post

How is this coming? any updates? Get the other 2 subs done, wall treatments, new pics, new graphs with the 4? Really interested in how this turns out.

Also I read somewhere that you had a chance to compare the minions with your 228's, could you comment some on that. I haven't ordered my 228's yet but would be interested in what you thought.
Thanks

Slow and steady....lol

No real updates right now, still need to cut up the plywood to build the last two subs and get them put together. Once that's done I'll start to concentrate on getting room treatments up. smile.gif

The minions were nice, so its kind of hard to knock a speaker that cost $500 for a pair. We didn't listen to them as long as I would have liked too but really I think chalugadp was more interested in hearing my 228's. The loudest that we listened to my speakers was around -25, so we never really pushed them. But as most know the actually crystal clear dynamics of them doesn't change whether you are listening at -25 or at reference, that's one of the things that I love most about them. smile.gif

The minions sounded pretty good at lower volumes but as we started to turn them up I could start to hear the differences between the two. They were still pretty clear not in my opinion nothing like the 228's, and of course they lacked mid bass compared to the 228's also. The minions have a 92dB sensitivity while my speakers are 98dB, so 6dB difference. And I would think that was fairly accurate between the two as we listened to the 228's at -25 and I think we had the minions at -17.

Chalugadp felt that the minions were 85% of the 228's, I personally think that was a little optimistic because we never turned my speakers up loud. At the volumes we listened too I think 85% would be a fair assessment, but of course the louder things would have gotten the wider that margin would be in my opinion. But like I've said all along it should be that way considering the price difference, I mean the 228 uses a compression driver that costs $200 alone. That's almost the entire cost of the minion. I do think that anyone looking for a nice budget set of speakers would be extremely happy with the minions though. smile.gif

The 228's have more midbass because they have two eight inch drivers to one for the minion. The driver for the minion is around the same price as the 228. Its an eminence driver under 200 bucks. There is no distortion or lack of clean sound from the minion at the level we listened. I've listened 15 dbs louder and its clean.

What the minions lack is sparkle on top and that extra something in vocals . The fusion mtm I have is a better speaker but only have one of them so couldn't really compare. I'm sure the better compression driver in the 228 is a big part of it being a better speaker .

What would really make the jtr sing would be an emotiva preamp tongue.gif
If I had some deep pockets I'd scoop up your 228's when you build your DIY . Maybe I'll make another dozen martycube flatpacks and buy them from u wink.gif
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post #319 of 557 Old 03-20-2014, 11:58 PM - Thread Starter
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You keep selling as many of those Marty cubes that you have been and you'd have no issues being able to afford my 228HT's if and when I decide to sell them!...lol smile.gif

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post #320 of 557 Old 03-21-2014, 05:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jbrown15 View Post

Slow and steady....lol

No real updates right now, still need to cut up the plywood to build the last two subs and get them put together. Once that's done I'll start to concentrate on getting room treatments up. smile.gif

The minions were nice, so its kind of hard to knock a speaker that cost $500 for a pair. We didn't listen to them as long as I would have liked too but really I think chalugadp was more interested in hearing my 228's. The loudest that we listened to my speakers was around -25, so we never really pushed them. But as most know the actually crystal clear dynamics of them doesn't change whether you are listening at -25 or at reference, that's one of the things that I love most about them. smile.gif

The minions sounded pretty good at lower volumes but as we started to turn them up I could start to hear the differences between the two. They were still pretty clear not in my opinion nothing like the 228's, and of course they lacked mid bass compared to the 228's also. The minions have a 92dB sensitivity while my speakers are 98dB, so 6dB difference. And I would think that was fairly accurate between the two as we listened to the 228's at -25 and I think we had the minions at -17.

Chalugadp felt that the minions were 85% of the 228's, I personally think that was a little optimistic because we never turned my speakers up loud. At the volumes we listened too I think 85% would be a fair assessment, but of course the louder things would have gotten the wider that margin would be in my opinion. But like I've said all along it should be that way considering the price difference, I mean the 228 uses a compression driver that costs $200 alone. That's almost the entire cost of the minion. I do think that anyone looking for a nice budget set of speakers would be extremely happy with the minions though. smile.gif
Thanks for the response on the minions. I have been interested in your thread for the fact you have the 228's and also were building 4 subs with the uxl 18. Why I asked about the minions was I thought I could save a ton of cash with them over the 228's but after taking my sis to the casino last nite, came home with enough winnings for the 228's and an Emotiva XPA-3, so no more budget restraints. biggrin.gif

Now off to order the 228's and then build 2 or 4 marty cubes with the uxl 18. I'll start with 2 and place them in the spots were my subs are now, since those give me the best response for my room and listen for a while to decide if I should go with another 2, which probably will happen. tongue.gif

I was hoping jb would have graphs with all 4 of his subs along with the 228's so could would have a ball park idea of how they play with the 228's. ie.. crossover points, equalization, etc..

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post #321 of 557 Old 03-21-2014, 06:03 AM
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I have not had a chance to sit down and compare the JTR 228's or 212's to any other speaker, but, I have spent some time recently with the triple-12's and triple-8's. I personally did not like them. I thought they sounded kind of dull and lacking in the mid-range detail and overall top end. They kind of have me the similar feeling that I got from the Klipsch Reference and Palladiums that I heard around 2 days before.

I thought that the Fusion-12 Tempest had a better mid-range SQ and the Tempest had more of a detailed and involving top end. Of course, the Tripple-12's had much more mid- bass that was also punchier. I did like that aspect.

To me it comes down to taste. In the past I had jumped on the ID speaker bandwagon and trusted reviews over auditions, but, I have since discovered that it is still not a good way to do it. I really like how companies like JTR, Ascend, Salk, ect...all 30 day trials. My biggest advise is to try and audition and compare as much as possible before deciding on what you want.
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post #322 of 557 Old 03-21-2014, 06:30 AM
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Originally Posted by Martycool007 View Post

I have not had a chance to sit down and compare the JTR 228's or 212's to any other speaker, but, I have spent some time recently with the triple-12's and triple-8's. I personally did not like them. I thought they sounded kind of dull and lacking in the mid-range detail and overall top end. They kind of have me the similar feeling that I got from the Klipsch Reference and Palladiums that I heard around 2 days before.

I thought that the Fusion-12 Tempest had a better mid-range SQ and the Tempest had more of a detailed and involving top end. Of course, the Tripple-12's had much more mid- bass that was also punchier. I did like that aspect.

To me it comes down to taste. In the past I had jumped on the ID speaker bandwagon and trusted reviews over auditions, but, I have since discovered that it is still not a good way to do it. I really like how companies like JTR, Ascend, Salk, ect...all 30 day trials. My biggest advise is to try and audition and compare as much as possible before deciding on what you want.

Evidently you haven't heard Noesis 212's..........with above comments....... how does bird taste?

No one, and I mean no one has heard more speakers than I. I spent 2-1/2 half years running up and down West Coast looking at the best available speakers most manufacturers offer. I've auditioned over 100 mains.......at varying price points. Noesis 212's lacking in mid-bass/mid-range? I surmise Triple 12's have similar sound signature down low but are different on top compared to Noesis 212's. Mid-bass/mid-range is NOT lacking in those products! eek.gif

Are JTR's the best speakers out there? No.........but the Noesis 212's I heard were fantastic and worthy for consideration. At that level of performance, you better be Mr. Gadget with ability to construct/integrate drivers and crossovers like an acoustical engineer!!! Yeah......like that is going to happen...... rolleyes.gif
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post #323 of 557 Old 03-21-2014, 06:53 AM
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Evidently you haven't heard Noesis 212's..........with above comments....... how does bird taste?

No one, and I mean no one has heard more speakers than I. I spent 2-1/2 half years running up and down West Coast looking at the best available speakers most manufacturers offer. I've auditioned over 100 mains.......at varying price points. Noesis 212's lacking in mid-bass/mid-range? I surmise Triple 12's have similar sound signature down low but are different on top compared to Noesis 212's. Mid-bass/mid-range is NOT lacking in those products! eek.gif

Are JTR's the best speakers out there? No.........but the Noesis 212's I heard were fantastic and worthy for consideration. At that level of performance, you better be Mr. Gadget with ability to construct/integrate drivers and crossovers like an acoustical engineer!!! Yeah......like that is going to happen...... rolleyes.gif

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post #324 of 557 Old 03-25-2014, 02:08 PM
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I had the opportunity to go over to jbrown15's house yesterday and listen to his system. I had previously heard the setup in December with his JTR speakers and PSA XS30 subs.
As I detailed in my post at that time, everything sounded fantastic. Then,he decided to delete the PSA subs and went the DIY route as detailed in this thread. My impressions follow.

We started out listening to some music, and immediately I was reminded of how awesome the JTR Noesis 228 speakers are. Joe brought them over to my house and left them there for a day, and since then I look at my own speakers with disdain and disgust. However, since this thread is about his sub build.......

We started out listening to some music. While listening to music, I really enjoyed how the subs blended in with the speakers. On bass heavy passages they really came alive and just provided a completely different experience than what I find in my own media room. IIRC, we were listening at about -25.

As impressive as the subs are for music, what they deliver in movies is just un-bleeping-believeable!! We started out with the battle/fight scene from How to Train Your Dragon. This was at about -15. Very impressive!! You think the subs are really pushing out the bass until those few instances when there's some really fantastic ULF moments. It's almost as if the subs lie low in the reeds, waiting to ambush an unsuspecting listener!! When those moments hit, you just can't believe the impact that you feel.

Next, Joe popped in Avatar and I asked him to turn it up a little more so we could really see what the subs could deliver. Again, IIRC he had the system at -13 on his AVR. He had to run upstairs and gently tell Mrs. jbrown15 that it was going to get loud for a few minutes biggrin.gif.

We watched probably the climactic scene in Avatar, where the helicopters launch an all-out assault on the funny blue people (can't remember what they're called). There's lots of bass heavy content in this 10-15 minutes and, of course, the movie is visually just spectacular. I found myself totally engrossed in the scene until the big tree started falling. You'll know if you've seen the movie smile.gif.

When that big tree started falling, I experienced something I've never felt before. Ever. I felt like I was in the scene . I felt as if the tree was going to fall on me and that I too, was running for my life!! The bass was just spectacular!!! The whole room felt as if it were shaking and .......well I just can't do the experience justice. It was just awesome.

The scary thing is Joe is only halfway. There's two more subs to come. If I had the space...............

Thanks, Joe. Can't wait to hear it when the next two are built.

I think I finally understand the craziness:D.
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post #325 of 557 Old 03-25-2014, 02:53 PM
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Awesome feedback Stsand!! Jbrown is sending me his other 2 UXL's he just does not know it yet. smile.gif
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post #326 of 557 Old 03-25-2014, 02:56 PM
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Awesome feedback Stsand!! Jbrown is sending me his other 2 UXL's he just does not know it yet. smile.gif
So it is agreed then, jbrown has enough bass and that he is just hoarding the other UXL's for his own pleasure.tongue.gif

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post #327 of 557 Old 03-25-2014, 03:18 PM
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Originally Posted by stsand View Post


...

Next, Joe popped in Avatar and I asked him to turn it up a little more so we could really see what the subs could deliver. Again, IIRC he had the system at -13 on his AVR. He had to run upstairs and gently tell Mrs. jbrown15 that it was going to get loud for a few minutes biggrin.gif.

We watched probably the climactic scene in Avatar, where the helicopters launch an all-out assault on the funny blue people (can't remember what they're called). There's lots of bass heavy content in this 10-15 minutes and, of course, the movie is visually just spectacular. I found myself totally engrossed in the scene until the big tree started falling. You'll know if you've seen the movie smile.gif.

When that big tree started falling, I experienced something I've never felt before. Ever. I felt like I was in the scene . I felt as if the tree was going to fall on me and that I too, was running for my life!! The bass was just spectacular!!! The whole room felt as if it were shaking and .......well I just can't do the experience justice. It was just awesome.

...

I think I finally understand the craziness:D.

man, what a great review and write-up!

Listen. It's All Good.
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post #328 of 557 Old 03-25-2014, 03:35 PM
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Joe, just discouvered this thread eek.giftongue.gif Cool stuff. Looking forward to hearing these this summer biggrin.gif
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post #329 of 557 Old 03-25-2014, 03:38 PM
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"Now I just need to learn what all of this means and how to optimize my setup."

have you level matched and time aligned the mains and the subs? that would be a good place to start. first, adjust the level at the crossover point to be about the same...then flip polarity on the subs and look for a deep null/cancellation that should occur at the acoustic crossover point. might have to add a little delay to the mains to get it optimal (maximum suckout), then flip polarity back.

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post #330 of 557 Old 03-25-2014, 06:12 PM - Thread Starter
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I had the opportunity to go over to jbrown15's house yesterday and listen to his system. I had previously heard the setup in December with his JTR speakers and PSA XS30 subs.
As I detailed in my post at that time, everything sounded fantastic. Then,he decided to delete the PSA subs and went the DIY route as detailed in this thread. My impressions follow.

We started out listening to some music, and immediately I was reminded of how awesome the JTR Noesis 228 speakers are. Joe brought them over to my house and left them there for a day, and since then I look at my own speakers with disdain and disgust. However, since this thread is about his sub build.......

We started out listening to some music. While listening to music, I really enjoyed how the subs blended in with the speakers. On bass heavy passages they really came alive and just provided a completely different experience than what I find in my own media room. IIRC, we were listening at about -25.

As impressive as the subs are for music, what they deliver in movies is just un-bleeping-believeable!! We started out with the battle/fight scene from How to Train Your Dragon. This was at about -15. Very impressive!! You think the subs are really pushing out the bass until those few instances when there's some really fantastic ULF moments. It's almost as if the subs lie low in the reeds, waiting to ambush an unsuspecting listener!! When those moments hit, you just can't believe the impact that you feel.

Next, Joe popped in Avatar and I asked him to turn it up a little more so we could really see what the subs could deliver. Again, IIRC he had the system at -13 on his AVR. He had to run upstairs and gently tell Mrs. jbrown15 that it was going to get loud for a few minutes biggrin.gif.

We watched probably the climactic scene in Avatar, where the helicopters launch an all-out assault on the funny blue people (can't remember what they're called). There's lots of bass heavy content in this 10-15 minutes and, of course, the movie is visually just spectacular. I found myself totally engrossed in the scene until the big tree started falling. You'll know if you've seen the movie smile.gif.

When that big tree started falling, I experienced something I've never felt before. Ever. I felt like I was in the scene . I felt as if the tree was going to fall on me and that I too, was running for my life!! The bass was just spectacular!!! The whole room felt as if it were shaking and .......well I just can't do the experience justice. It was just awesome.

The scary thing is Joe is only halfway. There's two more subs to come. If I had the space...............

Thanks, Joe. Can't wait to hear it when the next two are built.

I think I finally understand the craziness:D.

Wowzers, thanks for the great write up!...lol

My Gear:

JTR Noesis 228HT (LCR)
Axiom Audio QS8 surrounds
Sherbourn PA 7-350
Pioneer VSX-21TXH
JVC RS45
Falcon Screens FVHD105
Dual PSA XS30's (gone but not forgotten)
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