UXL-18 Subwoofer driver Group Buy (is now closed out/over/done/fini) !!!! - Page 40 - AVS Forum
Forum Jump: 
Reply
 
Thread Tools
post #1171 of 1388 Old 04-09-2014, 12:06 PM
AVS Special Member
 
jbrown15's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Vancouver B.C.
Posts: 5,112
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 301 Post(s)
Liked: 733
There's real world measured numbers on both the UXL-18 and SI 18 thanks to Ricci and some frequency's typically the lower ones the UXL-18 has a 3-4 and even almost a 5dB advantage over the SI 18. Josh's testing is about as real world as you're going to get.

Chop I really think you have similar views to what I'm saying and I agree with a lot of what you've said. But I still feel the UXL-18 is a pretty significant step up in performance over the SI 18, if you don't see it the way you're also basically saying the LMS-U isn't a step up over the SI 18, especially with the UXL-18 actually holding an advantage over a LMS-U above 20hz.

My Gear:

JTR Noesis 228HT (LCR)
Axiom Audio QS8 surrounds
Sherbourn PA 7-350
Pioneer VSX-21TXH
JVC RS45
Falcon Screens FVHD105
Dual PSA XS30's (gone but not forgotten)
jbrown15 is online now  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #1172 of 1388 Old 04-09-2014, 12:21 PM
Senior Member
 
lemans24's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Mississauga,Ontario
Posts: 320
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 11 Post(s)
Liked: 42
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChopShop1 View Post

I think, from my experience, 2 of the SI18s would outperform the UXL...it's less of an issue of how many it would take to equal and more of an issue that if the UXL gets you x, then the SI18 gets you .9 of X

Please explain how 2 of the SI18s would outperform the UXL-18??

 

Max db over what frequency range??

What wattage did you run thru SI-18 vs uxl-18?? maximum manufacturer recommendation or other??

What was the enclosure used?? sealed or ported?? small or large ??

lemans24 is offline  
post #1173 of 1388 Old 04-09-2014, 12:21 PM
Senior Member
 
realtight's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Omaha, NE
Posts: 427
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 10 Post(s)
Liked: 32
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChopShop1 View Post

I don't disagree with you necessarily, just making the point. There is a lot of talk about winsid models and how many of this driver it takes to equal that driver and so forth. My point is that real world testing is needed. I think, from my experience, 2 of the SI18s would outperform the UXL...it's less of an issue of how many it would take to equal and more of an issue that if the UXL gets you x, then the SI18 gets you .9 of X. As you said, from a pure performance, money no object standpoint, its a whole different game. Problem is that the vast majority of folks can't do that. and when you start talking single diigt performance percentages for more than double the cost, dimishing returns comes into play much lower in the price structure if you're on a budget. Just to be clear, I agree with buying the best performing unit you can afford without regard for how much better it is.


According to database.com the SI18 is around 4db's less then the UXL18 from 20hz down and the UXL is around 3db's louder at almost every frequency above that... there is nothing diminishing about it, the UXL is worth every penny more then the SI. Do database's real world results not count?
realtight is offline  
post #1174 of 1388 Old 04-09-2014, 12:24 PM
AVS Special Member
 
ChopShop1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: CT
Posts: 1,904
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Liked: 167
Quote:
Originally Posted by jbrown15 View Post

There's real world measured numbers on both the UXL-18 and SI 18 thanks to Ricci and some frequency's typically the lower ones the UXL-18 has a 3-4 and even almost a 5dB advantage over the SI 18. Josh's testing is about as real world as you're going to get.

Chop I really think you have similar views to what I'm saying and I agree with a lot of what you've said. But I still feel the UXL-18 is a pretty significant step up in performance over the SI 18, if you don't see it the way you're also basically saying the LMS-U isn't a step up over the SI 18, especially with the UXL-18 actually holding an advantage over a LMS-U above 20hz.

It may well be and I just haven't had the right experience with it. Just like this past weekend...I think both the LMS and the SI24 are capable of more than they showed. It's entirely possible that the variation in my demos and the time between them is too great to assess it failry. I have to be honest though, even if the LMS offered more output, I found nothing about them (and this is for me personally) that would have me buying them over the SI or Dayton 18s for any reason.
ChopShop1 is offline  
post #1175 of 1388 Old 04-09-2014, 12:30 PM
AVS Special Member
 
ChopShop1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: CT
Posts: 1,904
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Liked: 167
Quote:
Originally Posted by lemans24 View Post

Please explain how 2 of the SI18s would outperform the UXL-18??

Max db over what frequency range??
What wattage did you run thru SI-18 vs uxl-18?? maximum manufacturer recommendation or other??
What was the enclosure used?? sealed or ported?? small or large ??

Heard both in sealed boxes...problem is multiples of each and varying power. I've heard two SI18s on 1200w a piece and 8 of them on 400w each. A UXL on 2kw I believe. As mentioned above, there was variation and time between the two and I recognize that fact. My opinion is what it is, same as yours will continue to be what it is. I have test and been there for testing enough woofers to know what's what.

Quote:
Originally Posted by realtight View Post

According to database.com the SI18 is around 4db's less then the UXL18 from 20hz down and the UXL is around 3db's louder at almost every frequency above that... there is nothing diminishing about it, the UXL is worth every penny more then the SI. Do database's real world results not count?

Mr Ricci's assessments certainly do count, a great deal and I respect not only his work, but his subjective opinion too. Given the perfect comparison, your info above is exactly what I am saying. I can put 2 SI18s in a setup (I would mention Dayton too, but they are more money than the SI now, which IMO makes them less of a new purchase value...an I own them too) for $350. That would be equal to the UXL above 20 and maybe a db down below...depending. One can also move placement with the two and smooth response while still having some of the mutual coupling advantage.
ChopShop1 is offline  
post #1176 of 1388 Old 04-09-2014, 12:32 PM
AVS Special Member
 
ChopShop1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: CT
Posts: 1,904
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Liked: 167
Jbrown15, for the record...I'd take the UXL in a heartbeat over the LMS too
ChopShop1 is offline  
post #1177 of 1388 Old 04-09-2014, 12:37 PM
Senior Member
 
lemans24's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Mississauga,Ontario
Posts: 320
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 11 Post(s)
Liked: 42
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChopShop1 View Post


Heard both in sealed boxes...problem is multiples of each and varying power. I've heard two SI18s on 1200w a piece and 8 of them on 400w each. A UXL on 2kw I believe. As mentioned above, there was variation and time between the two and I recognize that fact. My opinion is what it is, same as yours will continue to be what it is. I have test and been there for testing enough woofers to know what's what.
Mr Ricci's assessments certainly do count, a great deal and I respect not only his work, but his subjective opinion too. Given the perfect comparison, your info above is exactly what I am saying. I can put 2 SI18s in a setup (I would mention Dayton too, but they are more money than the SI now, which IMO makes them less of a new purchase value...an I own them too) for $350. That would be equal to the UXL above 20 and maybe a db down below...depending. One can also move placement with the two and smooth response while still having some of the mutual coupling advantage.


So basically what you really meant to say earlier was: 2 si-18's provide competition to a single uxl-18 at a cheaper price than a single uxl-18??

Is that what you really meant to say??

lemans24 is offline  
post #1178 of 1388 Old 04-09-2014, 12:39 PM
Senior Member
 
realtight's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Omaha, NE
Posts: 427
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 10 Post(s)
Liked: 32
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChopShop1 View Post

Mr Ricci's assessments certainly do count, a great deal and I respect not only his work, but his subjective opinion too. Given the perfect comparison, your info above is exactly what I am saying. I can put 2 SI18s in a setup (I would mention Dayton too, but they are more money than the SI now, which IMO makes them less of a new purchase value...an I own them too) for $350. That would be equal to the UXL above 20 and maybe a db down below...depending. One can also move placement with the two and smooth response while still having some of the mutual coupling advantage.

I didn't realize SI was selling ANY drivers for the home crowd let alone putting a lower price on the SI18 - that is a fantastic deal! In a situation where I could only afford two SI's or one UXL I'd take the SI's but that's the only situation in my opinion. UXL is a much, much better driver and it's cost to performance ratio is good as well.
realtight is offline  
post #1179 of 1388 Old 04-09-2014, 12:45 PM
AVS Special Member
 
ChopShop1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: CT
Posts: 1,904
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Liked: 167
Quote:
Originally Posted by lemans24 View Post


So basically what you really meant to say earlier was: 2 si-18's provide competition to a single uxl-18 at a cheaper price than a single uxl-18??
Is that what you really meant to say??

Maybe it should have been....I said I think the the SI provides the majority of the performance of the UXL at a fraction of the price...same for the Dayton, the SI is just that much less expensive. I still contend that my statement is fair....if you want to be technical and go off data-bass alone here's the spread..
The UXL is up 3db at 10hz, up 3.5 at 12.5hz, up 4.2 at at both 16 and 20hz, up only 2db at 25hz, up 2.8 at at 31.5, up 3.7 at 40 up 4.8 at 50hz and then only up 1.8 and 1.6 respectively at 63 and 80hz. I conceed that the test numbers show a four db advantage and even a touch more in some areas, but also less than four in places below 20 and under 2 in some frequencies above 20hz. I'm not trying to be stand-offish, and I know many here hate to hear "subjective" opinions, but mine is that there is not much of an audile, sensible difference throughout much of the range.
atabea likes this.
ChopShop1 is offline  
post #1180 of 1388 Old 04-09-2014, 12:54 PM
AVS Special Member
 
ChopShop1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: CT
Posts: 1,904
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Liked: 167
Quote:
Originally Posted by realtight View Post

I didn't realize SI was selling ANY drivers for the home crowd let alone putting a lower price on the SI18 - that is a fantastic deal! In a situation where I could only afford two SI's or one UXL I'd take the SI's but that's the only situation in my opinion. UXL is a much, much better driver and it's cost to performance ratio is good as well.

I'd say that's a reasonable assessment. I'd but the SIs and take the other 7 or $800 and do something else, but that's just me...who knows, I'm the crazy a$$ that bought 18 24s biggrin.gif
realtight likes this.
ChopShop1 is offline  
post #1181 of 1388 Old 04-09-2014, 12:57 PM
AVS Special Member
 
ChopShop1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: CT
Posts: 1,904
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Liked: 167
just for the record, according to DataBass, the LMS is on par or just less as far as output in comparison to the SI from 25hz up wink.gif

I also like knowing I have at least a touch of room between xmax and punching a hole in the cone too. Please don't take this as a dig on the LMS, or the UXL for that matter(not that the UXL has the same issue), they are great drivers but I feel like folks write off the "lesser" contenders too easily.
ChopShop1 is offline  
post #1182 of 1388 Old 04-09-2014, 01:01 PM - Thread Starter
Advanced Member
 
blah450's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 893
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 26 Post(s)
Liked: 119
blah450 is offline  
post #1183 of 1388 Old 04-09-2014, 02:04 PM
Senior Member
 
lemans24's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Mississauga,Ontario
Posts: 320
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 11 Post(s)
Liked: 42
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChopShop1 View Post


I said I think the the SI provides the majority of the performance of the UXL at a fraction of the price...same for the Dayton, the SI is just that much less expensive

ChopShop1, you are talking out of your ass...again!!! It provides approximately 50% of the performance at approximately 50% of the price of a uxl-18!!! This i agree with.

You need 2 si-18's to match and/or better an uxl-18...this i will agree with too. Saying anything more than this is pure conjecture which no one on a uxl-18 buy forum will agree with!!!

The si-18 is a great subwoofer driver but it only compares in price and/or multiples only to the uxl-18!!!

lemans24 is offline  
post #1184 of 1388 Old 04-09-2014, 02:12 PM
AVS Special Member
 
ChopShop1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: CT
Posts: 1,904
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Liked: 167
Quote:
Originally Posted by lemans24 View Post

ChopShop1, you are talking out of your ass...again!!! It provides approximately 50% of the performance at approximately 50% of the price of a uxl-18!!! This i agree with.
You need 2 si-18's to match and/or better an uxl-18...this i will agree with too. Saying anything more than this is pure conjecture which no one on a uxl-18 buy forum will agree with!!!
The si-18 is a great subwoofer driver but it only compares in price and/or multiples only to the uxl-18!!!

Careful son....if you call quoting Ricci's numbers from databass talking out of my a$$ biggrin.gif

I think my numbers posted shows this is true at some frequencies, but less at others. Not sure how much more clear to be.
ChopShop1 is offline  
post #1185 of 1388 Old 04-09-2014, 02:30 PM
AVS Special Member
 
doublewing11's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Timber Country!
Posts: 3,383
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 38 Post(s)
Liked: 202
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChopShop1 View Post


No vaporware here...if there's anything folks should know about me by now it's that i don't like BS and I don't speculate on vaporware. After my dealings with ED, etc, I have no patience for business like that. If I thought this company would screw people I'd never bring it up. SI is alive and well, I can attest to being in their shop this weekend and seeing more woffers than I'd know what to do with (maybe biggrin.gif ) The SI HT18 is going to be a regular product line just like always and will come in under $200 a piece...final pricing will be out this week. I'm not trying to sell SI woofers by any means, just trying to keep it real. Anyone who's heard Brandon's room can attest that 8 of those at like $1500 all in would be hard to best with a handfull of anything. I know the generally accepted fact is that the UXL outperforms it, and it may very well...maybe more on paper than in real life. One thing I can say is that I'm fairly confident it won't outperform it by 2.5 times (as indicated by the cost) Win can tell you whatever it wants but I'd rather have the real world experience to know what really performs how.

I heard four SI-18's on a Peavey ipr2 7500 and knew on the spot SI sound quality was not for me.......

If UXL's sound anything like SI-18's.........then I'm screwed........

Just keeping it real.....,
doublewing11 is offline  
post #1186 of 1388 Old 04-09-2014, 02:37 PM
Senior Member
 
laeriq's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 316
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by doublewing11 View Post

I heard four SI-18's on a Peavey ipr2 7500 and knew on the spot SI sound quality was not for me.......

If UXL's sound anything like SI-18's.........then I'm screwed........

Just keeping it real.....,

Not sure this post is terribly scientific... How were they set up? EQ'd? Etc etc...

In fact in the databass review Ricci notes the "clean sonics" of the SI. I'm sure the UXL sounds awesome...lots of testimony here to that. Puzzled as to why the SI doesn't? The four I have sealed sure sound good.
laeriq is offline  
post #1187 of 1388 Old 04-09-2014, 02:41 PM
Senior Member
 
lemans24's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Mississauga,Ontario
Posts: 320
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 11 Post(s)
Liked: 42
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChopShop1 View Post


Careful son....if you call quoting Ricci's numbers from databass talking out of my a$$ biggrin.gif

I think my numbers posted shows this is true at some frequencies, but less at others. Not sure how much more clear to be.


ChopShop1, i have a real problem with unqualified blank statements like "majority of the performance of the UXL at a fraction of the price"!!!

3db or more is a very noticeable difference when comparing one subwoofer to another when looking at Ricci's number.

The SI-18 is made dirt cheap in China, which i have no problem with. The UXL-18 is hand made in Canada which jacks up the price considerably.

The Si-18 manufacturer recommended max rms wattage is 600 but almost everyone runs around 1100-1200.

The uxl-18 manufacturer recommended max rms wattage is 2000 and I think it can handle a lot more in short burst only but i dont know that for sure!!!

If I wanted the cheapest multiple sealed subwoofer setup, no doubt I would choose the si-18.

But if i wanted the cheapest single ported monster subwoofer, the uxl-18 would head the list.

Just qualify your statements, thats all!!

lemans24 is offline  
post #1188 of 1388 Old 04-09-2014, 02:50 PM
AVS Special Member
 
ChopShop1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: CT
Posts: 1,904
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Liked: 167
What about the areas where the si is down less than 2 db ?? Or where it's equal to the lms from 20 hz up??? Those statements are backed by databass by the way. And have you consider the readings on what power it took on each driver??? Ohhhh
ChopShop1 is offline  
post #1189 of 1388 Old 04-09-2014, 02:52 PM
AVS Special Member
 
ChopShop1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: CT
Posts: 1,904
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Liked: 167
Quote:
Originally Posted by laeriq View Post

Not sure this post is terribly scientific... How were they set up EQ'd? Etc etc...

Agreed. I have to say that's what makes this hobby fun though. ..I've just spent the weekend with a bunch of guys who know subs better than anyone I know and they all loved the si 18 ...DW..Yiu may not. Different strokes
ChopShop1 is offline  
post #1190 of 1388 Old 04-09-2014, 03:28 PM
Senior Member
 
lemans24's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Mississauga,Ontario
Posts: 320
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 11 Post(s)
Liked: 42
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChopShop1 View Post

What about the areas where the si is down less than 2 db ?? Or where it's equal to the lms from 20 hz up??? Those statements are backed by databass by the way. And have you consider the readings on what power it took on each driver??? Ohhhh

ChopShop1, what exactly is your point!!!

 

I have already said that the SI-18 is a great subwoofer when used for where it excels which is namely multiple sealed sub boxes. I am building a single 6.3cf marty cube and I ran many WinISD simulations thru all the popular 18" subwoofer drivers and the overall winner for use in my design was the uxl-18 by price performance. Since i am quite happy to use the uxl-18, I just don't see where it makes sense to generally compare it with other subwoofers and try to make out that the uxl-18 is so much better!! Now if you want to compare against 6.3cf ported subwoofer then I have some real numbers to argue with.

 

Buy as many SI-18's as you want, just don't expect a big congrats when you talk your game on a buy uxl-18 thread...

lemans24 is offline  
post #1191 of 1388 Old 04-09-2014, 03:42 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Archaea's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Kansas City, MO
Posts: 5,610
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 2 Thread(s)
Quoted: 125 Post(s)
Liked: 474
Quote:
Originally Posted by doublewing11 View Post


I heard four SI-18's on a Peavey ipr2 7500 and knew on the spot SI sound quality was not for me.......

If UXL's sound anything like SI-18's.........then I'm screwed........

Just keeping it real.....,

Something wasn't setup right...when you install your UXL-18 subs in your room and like them - bring your amp and subs over to your buddy's house and try them in his room. You'll likely discover the problem is his room/setup/eq/placement/amp.


I've had lots of demo sessions with the SI 18" and it's a fine subwoofer.

I've heard it in the following rooms

Popalock (16 SI)
Carp (8 SI)
Scrappydue (4 SI)
Gorilla83 (4 SI)
My room (4 of carp's SI)


I've heard a lot of subs in my visits to AVSforum g2g's all over the states. The SI are a fine subwoofer, and their use in multiples is quite satisfactory and makes up for any output deficiency against a higher class subwoofer. You can get the same feedback direct from a guy like popalock who went from two LMS Ultras to eight SI for the same cost (and then 16 just because he could -- and rumor has it maybe 32 soon) He'll clearly suggest if you have the room for it the eight SI are the better path over a pair of LMS 5400. Others like Carp, Gorilla83 and BeastAudio have had a ton of subwoofer experiences too and all are approving owners of the SI HT 18".

I've heard four UXL-18's at HuskerOmaha. We didn't get to tax them very hard because he had an air leak in one cabinet - so I haven't heard the UXL's pounded as hard as the SI. But there wasn't anything wrong with the SI, and reports sure have been positive on the UXL as well.


I think both the SI and the UXL represent very good price to performance points. There's not real good reason to argue that one is a definitively better decision than the other.

"Without subs it's just background music - with subs it's the main event!"
Archaea's Theatre Room
2011 KC Sub Shootout
2012 KC Blind Sub Shootout

My Subwoofer Recommendations by Pricepoint

Archaea is online now  
post #1192 of 1388 Old 04-09-2014, 04:17 PM
AVS Special Member
 
pdxrealtor's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 2,456
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 85 Post(s)
Liked: 136
Quote:
Originally Posted by Archaea View Post

Something wasn't setup right...when you install your UXL-18 subs in your room and like them - bring your amp and subs over to your buddy's house and try them in his room. You'll likely discover the problem is his room/setup/eq/placement/amp.


I've had lots of demo sessions with the SI 18" and it's a fine subwoofer.

I've heard it in the following rooms

Popalock (16 SI)
Carp (8 SI)
Scrappydue (4 SI)
Gorilla83 (4 SI)
My room (4 of carp's SI)


I've heard a lot of subs in my visits to AVSforum g2g's all over the states. The SI are a fine subwoofer, and their use in multiples is quite satisfactory and makes up for any output deficiency against a higher class subwoofer. You can get the same feedback direct from a guy like popalock who went from two LMS Ultras to eight SI for the same cost (and then 16 just because he could -- and rumor has it maybe 32 soon) He'll clearly suggest if you have the room for it the eight SI are the better path over a pair of LMS 5400. Others like Carp, Gorilla83 and BeastAudio have had a ton of subwoofer experiences too and all are approving owners of the SI HT 18".

I've heard four UXL-18's at HuskerOmaha. We didn't get to tax them very hard because he had an air leak in one cabinet - so I haven't heard the UXL's pounded as hard as the SI. But there wasn't anything wrong with the SI, and reports sure have been positive on the UXL as well.


I think both the SI and the UXL represent very good price to performance points. There's not real good reason to argue that one is a definitively better decision than the other.

DW heard the four SI-18s in my room. It's treated pretty well with over four boxes (48+ sheets) of OC703 and some pink fluffy. Floor to ceiling traps, ceiling to wall traps, 6" monster traps, a cloud, and the entire front wall covered in 4" top to bottom. It's sealed with the close of one door. The entire room is ~ 2500 cubic feet, and the main listening area is ~ 2000.

The subs were running a 2 ohm load off one channel of the IPR2, so ~930 watts / driver.

The material demoed was from a demo disc with several short clips so there was some variety. The demo disc is of top quality, it was produced by some guys here.

When DW heard my four, I had just sold the two rear drivers I had (had a total of six). With the rear drivers the response was flat. I do not know what the response curve looked like with just the front four running. But I don't think that's the point.

I think, as DW and I discussed, there is a SQ factor that is not taken into account. In discussions here most of the time it's always about output output output and the last two pages of this thread is a perfect example.

DW just sold his JTR subs so he knows how smooth those subs play their output, and having heard the SI drivers in my room he knows their sound signature. The difference has not one bit to do with my room.

SI 18 is budget driver. And I say that putting all bias a side. It is what it is. Sure you can buy 3 and have more output than 1.5 UXLs (wild numbers for example only) but some don't just care about output.

The majority of subwoofers I've played with have been car audio. The JL Audio W7 and W6v2 drivers do not sound anything like the Kicker L7, but both have similar output.

FS- Peavey IPR 2 7500, Art Clean Box Pro, Netgear 550 .ISO player - PM me
My Gear-Pioneer, JBL Pro Cinema, Fi Car Audio 4- SP4 18", Peavey IPR2 7500 x 2, Mini-Dsp 4x10, GIK Acoustics, Seymour Screens 110" AT, Dune Smarts, uNraid Server
Theater Build and Two Sono Sub Builds Here-
pdxrealtor is offline  
post #1193 of 1388 Old 04-09-2014, 04:26 PM
Advanced Member
 
BrutalBodyShots's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 774
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 21 Post(s)
Liked: 31
Great point on SQ. If only SQ were measurable the way SPL is.

Back in my car audio days I had MTX and Cerwin Vega subs that at the time I thought sounded phenomenal. I built a sealed box for 3 JL Audio 10W6's and while the SPL was relatively equal, the SQ was so much better. Unfortunately you can't see SQ on a graph.
BrutalBodyShots is online now  
post #1194 of 1388 Old 04-09-2014, 05:17 PM
AVS Special Member
 
ChopShop1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: CT
Posts: 1,904
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Liked: 167
Enjoy your UXLs guys...they are fine subwoofers. I am not an internet arguer so I'll stop here. The reason it go to the debate is because someone said a couple of pages back that the UXL had nothing that could come near it for the price....I begged to differ than for less than half, the SI came pretty darn close in some areas. I posted facts from databass on measurements and they got ignored. I have no agenda against any of these manufacturers, they are small business trying to make it and I applaud that. What I do have a problem with is guys going onto other threads and bashing gear/companies and then b!tching when someone has something to say back. Again, I have no reason to argue on the net, and Lemans, I have no reason to look for congrats from you, but thanks wink.gif
atabea likes this.
ChopShop1 is offline  
post #1195 of 1388 Old 04-09-2014, 05:25 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Gorilla83's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Delaware County, PA
Posts: 3,279
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 75 Post(s)
Liked: 266
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChopShop1 View Post

Enjoy your UXLs guys...they are fine subwoofers. I am not an internet arguer so I'll stop here. The reason it go to the debate is because someone said a couple of pages back that the UXL had nothing that could come near it for the price....I begged to differ than for less than half, the SI came pretty darn close in some areas. I posted facts from databass on measurements and they got ignored. I have no agenda against any of these manufacturers, they are small business trying to make it and I applaud that. What I do have a problem with is guys going onto other threads and bashing gear/companies and then b!tching when someone has something to say back. Again, I have no reason to argue on the net, and Lemans, I have no reason to look for congrats from you, but thanks wink.gif

C'mon man...if you have hate in your heart just let it out!

popalock and ChopShop1 like this.
Gorilla83 is online now  
post #1196 of 1388 Old 04-09-2014, 05:29 PM
AVS Special Member
 
doublewing11's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Timber Country!
Posts: 3,383
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 38 Post(s)
Liked: 202
Quote:
Originally Posted by pdxrealtor View Post


DW heard the four SI-18s in my room. It's treated pretty well with over four boxes (48+ sheets) of OC703 and some pink fluffy. Floor to ceiling traps, ceiling to wall traps, 6" monster traps, a cloud, and the entire front wall covered in 4" top to bottom. It's sealed with the close of one door. The entire room is ~ 2500 cubic feet, and the main listening area is ~ 2000.

The subs were running a 2 ohm load off one channel of the IPR2, so ~930 watts / driver.

The material demoed was from a demo disc with several short clips so there was some variety. The demo disc is of top quality, it was produced by some guys here.

When DW heard my four, I had just sold the two rear drivers I had (had a total of six). With the rear drivers the response was flat. I do not know what the response curve looked like with just the front four running. But I don't think that's the point.

I think, as DW and I discussed, there is a SQ factor that is not taken into account. In discussions here most of the time it's always about output output output and the last two pages of this thread is a perfect example.

DW just sold his JTR subs so he knows how smooth those subs play their output, and having heard the SI drivers in my room he knows their sound signature. The difference has not one bit to do with my room.

SI 18 is budget driver. And I say that putting all bias a side. It is what it is. Sure you can buy 3 and have more output than 1.5 UXLs (wild numbers for example only) but some don't just care about output.

The majority of subwoofers I've played with have been car audio. The JL Audio W7 and W6v2 drivers do not sound anything like the Kicker L7, but both have similar output.

 

Hey PDX, my concern over the sound signature of the SI-18's has nothing to do with your room....................your room was well treated and IMHO, subs were dialed in.  My tastes............likes............

 

Just like our directional  conversation took toward sound quality......................not much is mentioned about THD numbers.  IMHO, the LMS-U is one of the finest quality sounding subs I've ever heard...................I just think it's absurd SI-18 driver can be placed on  same playing field as Ultra's.  I'm hoping my four UXL's come close to my experience regarding sound quality of Ultra's..................it not, I have no problem switching out.  BTW, I don't anticipate that...................but you never know.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Archaea View Post


Something wasn't setup right...when you install your UXL-18 subs in your room and like them - bring your amp and subs over to your buddy's house and try them in his room. You'll likely discover the problem is his room/setup/eq/placement/amp.


I've had lots of demo sessions with the SI 18" and it's a fine subwoofer.

I've heard it in the following rooms

Popalock (16 SI)
Carp (8 SI)
Scrappydue (4 SI)
Gorilla83 (4 SI)
My room (4 of carp's SI)


I've heard a lot of subs in my visits to AVSforum g2g's all over the states. The SI are a fine subwoofer, and their use in multiples is quite satisfactory and makes up for any output deficiency against a higher class subwoofer. You can get the same feedback direct from a guy like popalock who went from two LMS Ultras to eight SI for the same cost (and then 16 just because he could -- and rumor has it maybe 32 soon) He'll clearly suggest if you have the room for it the eight SI are the better path over a pair of LMS 5400. Others like Carp, Gorilla83 and BeastAudio have had a ton of subwoofer experiences too and all are approving owners of the SI HT 18".

I've heard four UXL-18's at HuskerOmaha. We didn't get to tax them very hard because he had an air leak in one cabinet - so I haven't heard the UXL's pounded as hard as the SI. But there wasn't anything wrong with the SI, and reports sure have been positive on the UXL as well.


I think both the SI and the UXL represent very good price to performance points. There's not real good reason to argue that one is a definitively better decision than the other.

 

 

I can assure you, the room I heard  quad SI-18's was well treated and subs were dialed in..........................

 

 

Because a few members give "Golden Stamp" of approval means nothing to me...................I have to satisfy my own tastes, and hear for myself.  Granted, your list of experienced users of SI-18 driver may be enough for others...........but gives no credence for my unique tastes and application.  You have listed a group of very knowledgeable AVS members that know bass.........................and I'm in no way, fashion or form questioning the direction they have taken in their rooms.  But for me,  I have a goal............a tangible goal...................I know what I like, and am willing to chase that signature sound.  I've already switched out once, and have the means to do it as many times I need to.

 

We can all agree to disagree.............................

doublewing11 is offline  
post #1197 of 1388 Old 04-09-2014, 05:39 PM
AVS Special Member
 
ChopShop1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: CT
Posts: 1,904
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Liked: 167
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gorilla83 View Post

C'mon man...if you have hate in your heart just let it out!


Baaahahahaha...........
popalock likes this.
ChopShop1 is offline  
post #1198 of 1388 Old 04-09-2014, 06:00 PM
AVS Special Member
 
popalock's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Chantilly, VA
Posts: 3,271
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 91 Post(s)
Liked: 498
I can't figure out how to unsubscribe from a thread in mobile view.
ChopShop1 likes this.

 

popalock is offline  
post #1199 of 1388 Old 04-09-2014, 06:06 PM
Senior Member
 
laeriq's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 316
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by pdxrealtor View Post

DW heard the four SI-18s in my room. It's treated pretty well with over four boxes (48+ sheets) of OC703 and some pink fluffy. Floor to ceiling traps, ceiling to wall traps, 6" monster traps, a cloud, and the entire front wall covered in 4" top to bottom. It's sealed with the close of one door. The entire room is ~ 2500 cubic feet, and the main listening area is ~ 2000.

The subs were running a 2 ohm load off one channel of the IPR2, so ~930 watts / driver.

The material demoed was from a demo disc with several short clips so there was some variety. The demo disc is of top quality, it was produced by some guys here.

When DW heard my four, I had just sold the two rear drivers I had (had a total of six). With the rear drivers the response was flat. I do not know what the response curve looked like with just the front four running. But I don't think that's the point.

I think, as DW and I discussed, there is a SQ factor that is not taken into account. In discussions here most of the time it's always about output output output and the last two pages of this thread is a perfect example.

DW just sold his JTR subs so he knows how smooth those subs play their output, and having heard the SI drivers in my room he knows their sound signature. The difference has not one bit to do with my room.

SI 18 is budget driver. And I say that putting all bias a side. It is what it is. Sure you can buy 3 and have more output than 1.5 UXLs (wild numbers for example only) but some don't just care about output.

The majority of subwoofers I've played with have been car audio. The JL Audio W7 and W6v2 drivers do not sound anything like the Kicker L7, but both have similar output.

I am by far one of the least knowledgable posters in this discussion, but almost everything I've read says that when listening to loudspeakers what you are hearing is the room. I like the idea of sound quality and such, but have yet to see any blind tests that really establish a sound quality difference identified in drivers. With as many speaker and sub shootouts that go on in this forum, maybe someone should arrange a test like that. Maybe an SI, a UXL, an Ultra,....Dayton, etc etc. Find an avg box size (5 cubes?), feed everyone a predetermined amount of power (inuke dsp could do that), test 6-8 people and see what happens. Or maybe such a test has been done and I've missed it? And yes there are probably a million variables that would have to be resolved to make the experiment at all credible, but I'll leave that to people smarter than I.
Archaea and popalock like this.
laeriq is offline  
post #1200 of 1388 Old 04-09-2014, 06:14 PM
AVS Special Member
 
dgage's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 1,100
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 110 Post(s)
Liked: 173
First, please stop disparaging my LMS 5400 please. I paid way too much (with no discount) to have people dismiss it so easily. smile.gif Except you Chop, I still owe you for the dogs and burgers...so say whatever you want for a while. smile.gif

But I do have something to add that is applicable to the conversation about the LMS 5400 vs the SI18.

First, I'll give you one damn good reason to purchase a UXL or LMS (don't know why you'd purchase the LMS as the UXL has similar performance) and that is space. One LMS or UXL should put out equivalent output to a pair of SI18s but the SI18 requires twice the space. So space is one reason.

Second, I have heard the SI18s and the LMS5400s, not at the same time/place but I did go over to Coach's one day and heard his pair of DO SI18s (4 SI18s). I've written this story several times before so I should have it setup for copy/paste but here we go again. He had a EPX4000 hooked up to each cabinet of SI18s and when he first turned on his system, I was disappointed as I thought they would be similar to my pair of LMS 5400s that I heard the night before at my house. Suffice it to say the output and freq depth was not even close to what I expected. So then we switched his cabinet over to a channel each of my SpeakerPower SP2-8000. With my amp, his SI18s really opened up and seemed like different subs. They really sounded good and then we hooked up my MiniDSP and cleaned up the signal some. After working with the MiniDSP, I thought his subs sounded very similar to my LMS 5400s, which actually surprised me. It wasn't A/B but I did hear my subs the night before and then played the same IronMan bluray scene (the first battle at the base) and like I said, I really thought about the same. Coach upgraded his amps to the IPR 7500 and he is now happy...even more so since he added a third DO SI8 cabinet.

Third, I'll be able to compare a UXL 18 to an LMS 5400 soon, maybe even this weekend. I really think they'll have similar output and a similar sound when not driven to the edge.

Fourth, Beast's 8 SI18s were simply fantastic and I'd have to list a ton of adjectives to do them justice. I don't care that I have the LMS 5400s which are supposed to be some of the best subs in the world. If Beast gave me his 8 subs and I could fit them, I'd switch with him in an instant. As it is, I'm hoping my 3 LMS 5400s and 2 UXL-18s give me a similar experience. Unlike Popalock, I haven't heard as many systems so Beast's is the best system I've ever heard...and probably will be until I hear Reef's 8 x SI HS24s.
dgage is offline  
Reply DIY Speakers and Subs

User Tag List

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off