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UXL-18 Subwoofer driver Group Buy (is now closed out/over/done/fini) !!!!

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#1 ·
THE GROUP BUY IS OFFICALLY CLOSED OUT/OVER!



As some of you know, I have recently been in contact with Mark at IST about a Group Buy of the UXL-18 subwoofer.


Obviously the driver is held in high regard by many on this forum. Specs for the UXL-18 are found at:

http://www.istonline.ca/mach5_uxl_18.html

Knowing that there could be a good number of people interested in buying this, Mark has put out a price of $410 shipped per driver for a quantity of 40.

The shipped price is in US dollars and includes shipping from IST to locations within Canada and the continental USA. If outside of those areas, you would need to contact Mark separately to determine shipping charges. Overseas shipments will be sent by ocean shipping - no exceptions.


We are limiting this order to 40 drivers for decent turn-around time for production and reasonable assurance parts are in stock.


Still need to discuss payment logistics.


I am hammering out details on assurances of parts being stocked and turn-around time before setting the dead-line date for order money to be in. Mark is aware of this thread starting, and unless he states otherwise, please use me as the point for questions related to the Group Buy. (see post 47 and Post #1 12/25/13 edit below) I might not have an answer right away, but I will do my best to get it asap.


If you are dead-nuts serious about this deal, please reply below if you would be ready by the end of January 2014 to pay for the UXL-18 and how many you would like.



By January 1, if it looks like there would be close to enough commitments, we will make it happen and I will provide payment details. See 12/26/13 edit below for target date of mid-February!


I'm sure I am missing something...if so, just ask below...someone else might have the same question. Bear with with me, nothing in this for me, just trying to help out the DIY community.




edit: 12/24/13...Mark has said if there is definitely commitment to the quantity, and his magnet order arrives soon,

he would start getting materials in and could be shipping by February 2!


Also, the default is a plain carbon fiber dust cap, NO logo on the dust cap. If you want to have the logo, you will need to indicate that with your order.


edit: 12/24/13...added the above about "ocean shipping" overseas as per Mark.


edit: 12/25/13...as far as Group Buy questions, ask me...as far as questions not answered here about the UXL-18, ask Mark as per Mark...see post #47.


edit: 12/25/13...post 55 has a link to Rebel's build showing Erich's 4 cu ft sealed flat-pack being used in conjunction with a UXL-18. I believe Rebel used a baffle cut out for the Dayton (albeit a tight fit) and in the same thread it is suggested using the slightly larger baffle cut-out for the SI. Please be sure to read that thread carefully if you are ordering a flat-pack for the UXL-18.


edit: 12/26/13...price has been confirmed at $410 per driver shipped for 40 drivers or more. Quantities of 16 or more will be shipped on a skid with savings being passed on to buyer. Deadline for group buy has been extended to mid-February!


edit: 12/29/13...Once we hit 40 drivers (or just over if the last order "in" pushes us past that number), I am turning the Group Buy members names in to Mark so they are able to receive their discount.

After that, it will be up to Mark as to whether he will take any one else in that dedicated Group Buy production run or pass along the Group Buy pricing of $410 shipped each.



edit: 12/30/13...in the event more commitments (not "thinking about it") are posted in the thread (they must be posted, not PMed to me), and we go over 40, the last person to post a commitment that indeed pushes us to 40 should be able to be accommodated (even it that takes us a unit or two over I hope...Mark, any problems with that?) unless it is a large order which puts us significantly over 40, in which case I shall discuss with Mark first.


Any commitments that come in after #40 (or thereabouts) will be a matter of record and considered as "back-up" in the order they were posted in case something happens with one of the original commitments.


edit: 12/30/13...Payment directions for group buy!!!!!!!


Mark will have a pdf list of each of our 19 participants and their contact/shipping info by tomorrow morning. Each of you will contact Mark and pay via PayPal for 50% of your respective order (a down payment) by Saturday, January 18. The sooner, the better. If you have arranged an alternative shipping means with Mark that affects the $410 per driver shipped price, that is between you and him. If a person would like to pay for the whole shot up front, that's all good too! As he has indicated in post 421, once the magnets have arrived and the drivers are completed and ready, each person would then pay the second half of what's due on their respective order and the driver/s will ship.
 
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#1,152 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by dgage  /t/1507423/uxl-18-subwoofer-driver-group-buy-is-now-closed-out-over-done-fini/1140#post_24585897


I don't disagree that a discount might be nice but to put it into perspective, he really doesn't need to give a discount. What is his competition? With the SI HT18 now out of the picture there is the new Dayton that isn't out yet. And the LMS 5400 is almost twice as expensive. Then there is the big boy SI HS24 that was the belle of the ball at Beast's GTG that goes for $999 and is worth every penny. So I'd say even at full price, the driver is worth what he's charging. But that is my opinion.

I can certainly understand that argument and think it's a valid one. The answer to what his competition is would be anything a potential buyer may purchase in place of it as an alternative. It could be someone settling for lesser priced/quality drivers. Or someone willing to spend equal money but on twice as many cheaper drivers. Or someone that bails out of DIY all together and buys a commercial sub. Competition doesn't always have to be at the same level of quality and price point.


A businessman may eat a porterhouse at a high end steakhouse in NY every Thursday night after work, dropping $100 in the process. One week, pressed for time he may hit the McDonald's drive thru on the way home. While the high end steakhouse would never directly consider McDonald's to be their competition, in this example they lost $100 in sales because a substitute (albeit worse quality food) product was available.


You also have to take into account the intangible factor: People just like to FEEL good about their purchase and in a tough economy like to FEEL like they're getting a good deal. Assuming a product has a fairly strong profit margin (which most electronics do) offering a 10% discount isn't usually a make or break it type scenario to the seller but without question drives the sale of units.


Or do what 90% of businesses do out there do. Jack up the price 10%, then in a month offer a 10% discount so you're back at square one except sales increase because the buyer now FEELS like they're getting a deal
 
#1,153 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by BrutalBodyShots  /t/1507423/uxl-18-subwoofer-driver-group-buy-is-now-closed-out-over-done-fini/1140#post_24585962


Or do what 90% of businesses do out there do. Jack up the price 10%, then in a month offer a 10% discount so you're back at square one except sales increase because the buyer now FEELS like they're getting a deal

Or do like Jos A. Bank and just be stupid about doing that exact thing...but I don't disagree with your arguments. Good luck getting some UXL-18s or the alternative.
 
#1,154 ·
Can't say I know what Jos A. Bank is, but I get your point.


IMO in today's consumer market, it's an expectation to buy at a discount. I don't feel all too many people these days are willing to pay the asking price or regular price on goods that cost a good chunk of money.


Think of any electronic device around the cost of a UXL-18, be it a TV, laptop, appliance, you name it - when was the last time you actually paid the sticker price for something like this rather than scoring it during a sale, holiday promotion or just grabbing a 10% off coupon from online search? Even when I buy online I take the extra 3 minutes to search for a coupon code and viola there's a $30 discount or whatever.


With virtually everyone offering sales constantly, that's become the level of expectation for the consumer. No sale does not meet expectations so the buyer usually will go elsewhere, or wait for a sale if he's set on a particular product.


I'm sure Mark found when doing his group buy deal that sales skyrocketed compared to if he left the price where it was. People love a sale and buy accordingly.
 
#1,155 ·
You can't really compare buying a $500 TV to a $500 driver. For starters the guy buying a $500 tv would think you're crazy spending $500 of a sub driver...lol


Sure everyone loves to get a deal, I know I sure did on my UXL-18's. But at the same time its a very small group of guys buying these things, you could almost compare it to buying an exotic car or luxury watch. Sure you'd love to get a deal, but if you're considering a Rolex or a Ferrari they already know you can afford them so there's no reason to drop the price. Saving $50 on a $500 driver is a nice bonus but if that the difference between you buying them or not maybe you'd be better off with a more affordable driver to start with.


For example, I was all set to buy four UXL-18's at full price even before the group buy happened. I was lucky enough to be able to cash in on the great price, but even if the group buy didn't happen I was still going to order four of them.


I personally would consider the UXL-18 to be the bargain buy of high end drivers. I think for high end drivers the $500 mark is the starting point, with the TC LMS-U being the top dollar mark.
 
#1,156 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by jbrown15  /t/1507423/uxl-18-subwoofer-driver-group-buy-is-now-closed-out-over-done-fini/1140#post_24586320


You can't really compare buying a $500 TV to a $500 driver. For starters the guy buying a $500 tv would think you're crazy spending $500 of a sub driver...lol


Sure everyone loves to get a deal, I know I sure did on my UXL-18's. But at the same time its a very small group of guys buying these things, you could almost compare it to buying an exotic car or luxury watch. Sure you'd love to get a deal, but if you're considering a Rolex or a Ferrari they already know you can afford them so there's no reason to drop the price. Saving $50 on a $500 driver is a nice bonus but if that the difference between you buying them or not maybe you'd be better off with a more affordable driver to start with.


For example, I was all set to buy four UXL-18's at full price even before the group buy happened. I was lucky enough to be able to cash in on the great price, but even if the group buy didn't happen I was still going to order four of them.


I personally would consider the UXL-18 to be the bargain buy of high end drivers. I think for high end drivers the $500 mark is the starting point, with the TC LMS-U being the top dollar mark.

I'll send you an invoice for the balance...
 
#1,157 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by dgage  /t/1507423/uxl-18-subwoofer-driver-group-buy-is-now-closed-out-over-done-fini/1140#post_24585897


I don't disagree that a discount might be nice but to put it into perspective, he really doesn't need to give a discount. What is his competition? With the SI HT18 now out of the picture there is the new Dayton that isn't out yet. And the LMS 5400 is almost twice as expensive. Then there is the big boy SI HS24 that was the belle of the ball at Beast's GTG that goes for $999 and is worth every penny. So I'd say even at full price, the driver is worth what he's charging. But that is my opinion.

That's the case for now, but there will be competition at less than half the price of the UXL very soon.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jbrown15  /t/1507423/uxl-18-subwoofer-driver-group-buy-is-now-closed-out-over-done-fini/1140#post_24586320


You can't really compare buying a $500 TV to a $500 driver. For starters the guy buying a $500 tv would think you're crazy spending $500 of a sub driver...lol


Sure everyone loves to get a deal, I know I sure did on my UXL-18's. But at the same time its a very small group of guys buying these things, you could almost compare it to buying an exotic car or luxury watch. Sure you'd love to get a deal, but if you're considering a Rolex or a Ferrari they already know you can afford them so there's no reason to drop the price. Saving $50 on a $500 driver is a nice bonus but if that the difference between you buying them or not maybe you'd be better off with a more affordable driver to start with.


For example, I was all set to buy four UXL-18's at full price even before the group buy happened. I was lucky enough to be able to cash in on the great price, but even if the group buy didn't happen I was still going to order four of them.


I personally would consider the UXL-18 to be the bargain buy of high end drivers. I think for high end drivers the $500 mark is the starting point, with the TC LMS-U being the top dollar mark.

I relate well to the car analogies myself and never spend dough on jewelry....I don't disagree, if I had to pay a G-note each for 24s becuase I waited until now to hear them at the gtg before commiting, I'd do it. That's not to say I wouldn't try to leverage a better deal though. You're also right that if the buyer in question is making this as their main purchase and the removal of discount is the difference in affordability, they should not have pushed the budget that much to begin with. The thing to remember is that many of the guys buying these higher end products aren't doing so because they don't have subs or even are unhappy with their subs. Some of us keep buying just for fun, to experiment and try new stuff. These are the situations where the manufacturers could double the sales on some of these GB's. I know of a couple of dozen more UXLs that would have sold with another $50 in discount, just so we could play with them for fun. IMO, that's sales lost out on. As a consumer, the best way to approach every purchase is like a business deal...have a set of rewuirements that make the deal work for you and don't move forward if they aren't met. I can also appreciate the same philosophy from the service provider to though...I need $xxx to make it worth it to go to work everyday or I won't sell them.


I'd agree that $500 seems to be the opener for "high end" drivers, but there are quite a few that are less than that, which perform very close. Some folks may have the budget to go "higher end" but decide that the $230 driver comes so close that just because they have the cash for more, doesn't mean they need it. It's what creates a competitive marketplace in every business.
 
#1,158 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by jbrown15  /t/1507423/uxl-18-subwoofer-driver-group-buy-is-now-closed-out-over-done-fini/1140#post_24586320


You can't really compare buying a $500 TV to a $500 driver. For starters the guy buying a $500 tv would think you're crazy spending $500 of a sub driver...lol


Sure everyone loves to get a deal, I know I sure did on my UXL-18's. But at the same time its a very small group of guys buying these things, you could almost compare it to buying an exotic car or luxury watch. Sure you'd love to get a deal, but if you're considering a Rolex or a Ferrari they already know you can afford them so there's no reason to drop the price. Saving $50 on a $500 driver is a nice bonus but if that the difference between you buying them or not maybe you'd be better off with a more affordable driver to start with.


For example, I was all set to buy four UXL-18's at full price even before the group buy happened. I was lucky enough to be able to cash in on the great price, but even if the group buy didn't happen I was still going to order four of them.


I personally would consider the UXL-18 to be the bargain buy of high end drivers. I think for high end drivers the $500 mark is the starting point, with the TC LMS-U being the top dollar mark.

I can understand that argument to some degree, but if you're considering the UXL-18 the "starting point for high end drivers" then you can't really compare it to a Ferrari or Rolex. MAYBE the cheapest ones. I've heard of Ferrari's that are $150k and ones that are $2M. I've heard of Rolex's that are a G and other's that are a quarter Mill. The UXL-18 is a set, finite number (with the lone exception of the group buy).


While there are many people that were set paying the full price for the UXL's like yourself I'm sure, there are always people on the cusp for all products. It doesn't matter what the product is whether it's a dollar or a million dollars. You make it sound like there are 2 groups, those that can't afford a Rolex or Ferrari and those that can when in reality there are plenty of people on the cusp for probably every product in their line. Some people refuse to spend $2.39 at a gas station for a Red Bull, but when they see the 2 for $4 sale pop up they grab 2 for that giant 39 cent discount per can. Conversely there are people that would pay $3.99 for a can or higher if all the prices world wide went up. Of course there are others that wouldn't spend 50 cents on one, ever. Another guy may have a $140k budget for a new car and really wants a Ferrari priced at $150k. He'd be the guy on the cusp for that product. All it would take is a 7% discount for that guy to pull the trigger. Is it worth that 7% to the Ferrari dealership? Is it worth 10% to Mark? All arguable and debatable.


There's ALWAYS a reason to drop the price, because if you plot price verses demand the line on the graph is continuous as there are an infinite range of disposable incomes. If the price drops (for any product, really) there is more demand as more people can afford it at the new price point, thus sales increase.
 
#1,159 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChopShop1  /t/1507423/uxl-18-subwoofer-driver-group-buy-is-now-closed-out-over-done-fini/1140#post_24587105


That's the case for now, but there will be competition at less than half the price of the UXL very soon.

I relate well to the car analogies myself and never spend dough on jewelry....I don't disagree, if I had to pay a G-note each for 24s becuase I waited until now to hear them at the gtg before commiting, I'd do it. That's not to say I wouldn't try to leverage a better deal though. You're also right that if the buyer in question is making this as their main purchase and the removal of discount is the difference in affordability, they should not have pushed the budget that much to begin with. The thing to remember is that many of the guys buying these higher end products aren't doing so because they don't have subs or even are unhappy with their subs. Some of us keep buying just for fun, to experiment and try new stuff. These are the situations where the manufacturers could double the sales on some of these GB's. I know of a couple of dozen more UXLs that would have sold with another $50 in discount, just so we could play with them for fun. IMO, that's sales lost out on. As a consumer, the best way to approach every purchase is like a business deal...have a set of rewuirements that make the deal work for you and don't move forward if they aren't met. I can also appreciate the same philosophy from the service provider to though...I need $xxx to make it worth it to go to work everyday or I won't sell them.


I'd agree that $500 seems to be the opener for "high end" drivers, but there are quite a few that are less than that, which perform very close. Some folks may have the budget to go "higher end" but decide that the $230 driver comes so close that just because they have the cash for more, doesn't mean they need it. It's what creates a competitive marketplace in every business.

Good post Chop. There is another difference to consider though, and while it's a fine line it's worth talking about. There's a clear difference between affordability and choosing to pay a price for something. All of this discussion is centered around the buyer being able to AFFORD the UXL-18, the Ferrari, the Rolex etc. Ones budget isn't always synonymous with what they can afford. I am a perfect example of that and I think there are plenty of people that fall into my category.


I could AFFORD to drop $5k on a pair of subs tomorrow; That's about the amount of disposable income I have currently that I could part with and not miss. More than that, I couldn't AFFORD. My BUDGET however when I started considering a DIY project was around $300 per sub. Originally I was set on the Ultimax 18 which cruises in below the budget number I gave myself to start with. With the UM-18 being unavailable, I've been forced to consider other options. Some cheaper (Dayton HO, SI18, etc) and some more expensive like the UXL-18. For a guy like me, a price of say $430-$440 on the UXL-18 significantly increases my likelihood of purchasing over their regular price. Either price is over my budget, but neither price is above what I can afford. I think more often than not when people set a budget for a DIY project, be it a HT subwoofer or a kitchen remodel the buyer ends up exceeding his budget. Why? Because his budget was set lower than what he could afford. The buyer may have considered corian counter tops for his new kitchen, but the day he was ready to buy there was a 15% off sale on all granite counter tops. He may end up dropping double or triple what he originally budgeted because he can afford to do so even though he didn't plan on it, and it's all because of the sale on the higher end product. There are people out there that will set their budget to exactly what they can afford, but I think that happens less often.
 
#1,161 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChopShop1  /t/1507423/uxl-18-subwoofer-driver-group-buy-is-now-closed-out-over-done-fini/1140#post_24587105



That's the case for now, but there will be competition at less than half the price of the UXL very soon.

 
ok...give us a hint on the driver coming out soon that will give similar performance to the UXL-18 for half the price??

sounds like good old vaporware...
 
#1,163 ·
I'll be curious to see how the UM-18 tests as well. I recently emailed PE asking about that driver compared to the currently available HO. This is what he responded with:


"More power handling, more cone excursion and slightly lower in room response. The UM is the go-to woofer for home theater applications specifically because of the amount of air it can move. The RS subs are wonderful as well but they are limited at higher volume levels.


The recommended volumes are different as well. The RS sub is fine with 8.5 cubic feet with two 4" ports that are 24" long each for a tuning frequency of 18 Hz. The UM requires 12.9 cubic feet with three 4" ports that are 30" long for a tuning frequency of 16 Hz."


From the sound of that, I would think the UXL-18 can be put in a smaller enclosure if we're talking ported. I think the UM-18 would be a good bang for the buck driver for sealed applications.


I have a feeling that it may edge out the SI and HO particularly in sub 20hz content, but don't think it will necessarily compare to the UXL-18. At half the price though I could see many people pulling the trigger.


Of course this is all IF it ever gets released, lol.
 
#1,164 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by jbrown15  /t/1507423/uxl-18-subwoofer-driver-group-buy-is-now-closed-out-over-done-fini/1140#post_24587821


I'm guessing that's in reference to the up coming UM18-22, and if that is the case I'll believe it after Josh Ricci has one in hand and has tested it. Until then I'll keep assuming it will perform closely to a SI 18 or IXL-18 rather then the UXL-18 & LMS-U.

+1
 
#1,165 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by lemans24  /t/1507423/uxl-18-subwoofer-driver-group-buy-is-now-closed-out-over-done-fini/1140#post_24587760


ok...give us a hint on the driver coming out soon that will give similar performance to the UXL-18 for half the price??

sounds like good old vaporware...
Quote:
Originally Posted by jbrown15  /t/1507423/uxl-18-subwoofer-driver-group-buy-is-now-closed-out-over-done-fini/1140#post_24587821


I'm guessing that's in reference to the up coming UM18-22, and if that is the case I'll believe it after Josh Ricci has one in hand and has tested it. Until then I'll keep assuming it will perform closely to a SI 18 or IXL-18 rather then the UXL-18 & LMS-U.

No vaporware here...if there's anything folks should know about me by now it's that i don't like BS and I don't speculate on vaporware. After my dealings with ED, etc, I have no patience for business like that. If I thought this company would screw people I'd never bring it up. SI is alive and well, I can attest to being in their shop this weekend and seeing more woffers than I'd know what to do with (maybe
) The SI HT18 is going to be a regular product line just like always and will come in under $200 a piece...final pricing will be out this week. I'm not trying to sell SI woofers by any means, just trying to keep it real. Anyone who's heard Brandon's room can attest that 8 of those at like $1500 all in would be hard to best with a handfull of anything. I know the generally accepted fact is that the UXL outperforms it, and it may very well...maybe more on paper than in real life. One thing I can say is that I'm fairly confident it won't outperform it by 2.5 times (as indicated by the cost) Win can tell you whatever it wants but I'd rather have the real world experience to know what really performs how.
 
#1,166 ·
I don't think anyone would expect the UXL-18 to outperform the SI18 by 2.5 times even though the driver costs 2.5x the cost. It's unrealistic to do so once you're considering a mid-upper level product of any particular type. Once you exit out of the entry level assortment of products returns diminish rapidly.


A greater performance disparity would be realized between a $75 18" sub and a SI18 at 2.5x the price than would be the case between the SI18 and the UXL-18, and again from the UXL-18 to the LMS for example. The further up the ladder you go, the more money it takes to realize marginal gains.
 
#1,167 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChopShop1  /t/1507423/uxl-18-subwoofer-driver-group-buy-is-now-closed-out-over-done-fini/1140#post_24588102



No vaporware here...if there's anything folks should know about me by now it's that i don't like BS and I don't speculate on vaporware. After my dealings with ED, etc, I have no patience for business like that. If I thought this company would screw people I'd never bring it up. SI is alive and well, I can attest to being in their shop this weekend and seeing more woffers than I'd know what to do with (maybe
) The SI HT18 is going to be a regular product line just like always and will come in under $200 a piece...final pricing will be out this week. I'm not trying to sell SI woofers by any means, just trying to keep it real. Anyone who's heard Brandon's room can attest that 8 of those at like $1500 all in would be hard to best with a handfull of anything. I know the generally accepted fact is that the UXL outperforms it, and it may very well...maybe more on paper than in real life. One thing I can say is that I'm fairly confident it won't outperform it by 2.5 times (as indicated by the cost) Win can tell you whatever it wants but I'd rather have the real world experience to know what really performs how.

If that's how you rationalize things that's pefectly fine but at the same time don't think for a second if someone said "hey Brandon would you rather have 8 free SI 18's or 8 free UXL-18's he's going to take the SI's. And he could most likely get the same performance of the 8 SI 18's with only 6 UXL-18's.


For me being in Canada the SI 18's would have almost cost as much as the UXL-18's after shipping, exchange rates, taxes and duties.
 
#1,168 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChopShop1  /t/1507423/uxl-18-subwoofer-driver-group-buy-is-now-closed-out-over-done-fini/1140#post_24588102



No vaporware here...if there's anything folks should know about me by now it's that i don't like BS and I don't speculate on vaporware. After my dealings with ED, etc, I have no patience for business like that. If I thought this company would screw people I'd never bring it up. SI is alive and well, I can attest to being in their shop this weekend and seeing more woffers than I'd know what to do with (maybe
) The SI HT18 is going to be a regular product line just like always and will come in under $200 a piece...final pricing will be out this week. I'm not trying to sell SI woofers by any means, just trying to keep it real. Anyone who's heard Brandon's room can attest that 8 of those at like $1500 all in would be hard to best with a handfull of anything. I know the generally accepted fact is that the UXL outperforms it, and it may very well...maybe more on paper than in real life. One thing I can say is that I'm fairly confident it won't outperform it by 2.5 times (as indicated by the cost) Win can tell you whatever it wants but I'd rather have the real world experience to know what really performs how.

Also aren't the SI HT-18's at least 3 months away?
 
#1,169 ·
It all depends on what the intended use is. If I only have room for one or two subs, I would choose the UXL all day long. If I can have 6 or 8 of them I would definitely go with the SI or less expensive equivalent.


In a single sub system you may not need 2.5X the performance. You may only need an extra 10% that makes the difference between bottoming out or overheating the lesser driver. How much are you willing to sacrifice in the name of saving a couple of $ that won't mean much in the long run.


So, yes there is a law of diminishing returns that comes on quickly, but there is also the get what you paid for factor as well.
 
#1,170 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by jbrown15  /t/1507423/uxl-18-subwoofer-driver-group-buy-is-now-closed-out-over-done-fini/1140#post_24588335


If that's how you rationalize things that's pefectly fine but at the same time don't think for a second if someone said "hey Brandon would you rather have 8 free SI 18's or 8 free UXL-18's he's going to take the SI's. And he could most likely get the same performance of the 8 SI 18's with only 6 UXL-18's.


For me being in Canada the SI 18's would have almost cost as much as the UXL-18's after shipping, exchange rates, taxes and duties.

I don't disagree with you necessarily, just making the point. There is a lot of talk about winsid models and how many of this driver it takes to equal that driver and so forth. My point is that real world testing is needed. I think, from my experience, 2 of the SI18s would outperform the UXL...it's less of an issue of how many it would take to equal and more of an issue that if the UXL gets you x, then the SI18 gets you .9 of X. As you said, from a pure performance, money no object standpoint, its a whole different game. Problem is that the vast majority of folks can't do that. and when you start talking single diigt performance percentages for more than double the cost, dimishing returns comes into play much lower in the price structure if you're on a budget. Just to be clear, I agree with buying the best performing unit you can afford without regard for how much better it is.
 
#1,171 ·
There's real world measured numbers on both the UXL-18 and SI 18 thanks to Ricci and some frequency's typically the lower ones the UXL-18 has a 3-4 and even almost a 5dB advantage over the SI 18. Josh's testing is about as real world as you're going to get.


Chop I really think you have similar views to what I'm saying and I agree with a lot of what you've said. But I still feel the UXL-18 is a pretty significant step up in performance over the SI 18, if you don't see it the way you're also basically saying the LMS-U isn't a step up over the SI 18, especially with the UXL-18 actually holding an advantage over a LMS-U above 20hz.
 
#1,172 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChopShop1  /t/1507423/uxl-18-subwoofer-driver-group-buy-is-now-closed-out-over-done-fini/1140#post_24588580


I think, from my experience, 2 of the SI18s would outperform the UXL...it's less of an issue of how many it would take to equal and more of an issue that if the UXL gets you x, then the SI18 gets you .9 of X
Please explain how 2 of the SI18s would outperform the UXL-18??

 

Max db over what frequency range??

What wattage did you run thru SI-18 vs uxl-18?? maximum manufacturer recommendation or other??

What was the enclosure used?? sealed or ported?? small or large ??
 
#1,173 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChopShop1  /t/1507423/uxl-18-subwoofer-driver-group-buy-is-now-closed-out-over-done-fini/1140#post_24588580


I don't disagree with you necessarily, just making the point. There is a lot of talk about winsid models and how many of this driver it takes to equal that driver and so forth. My point is that real world testing is needed. I think, from my experience, 2 of the SI18s would outperform the UXL...it's less of an issue of how many it would take to equal and more of an issue that if the UXL gets you x, then the SI18 gets you .9 of X. As you said, from a pure performance, money no object standpoint, its a whole different game. Problem is that the vast majority of folks can't do that. and when you start talking single diigt performance percentages for more than double the cost, dimishing returns comes into play much lower in the price structure if you're on a budget. Just to be clear, I agree with buying the best performing unit you can afford without regard for how much better it is.


According to database.com the SI18 is around 4db's less then the UXL18 from 20hz down and the UXL is around 3db's louder at almost every frequency above that... there is nothing diminishing about it, the UXL is worth every penny more then the SI. Do database's real world results not count?
 
#1,174 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by jbrown15  /t/1507423/uxl-18-subwoofer-driver-group-buy-is-now-closed-out-over-done-fini/1170#post_24588637


There's real world measured numbers on both the UXL-18 and SI 18 thanks to Ricci and some frequency's typically the lower ones the UXL-18 has a 3-4 and even almost a 5dB advantage over the SI 18. Josh's testing is about as real world as you're going to get.


Chop I really think you have similar views to what I'm saying and I agree with a lot of what you've said. But I still feel the UXL-18 is a pretty significant step up in performance over the SI 18, if you don't see it the way you're also basically saying the LMS-U isn't a step up over the SI 18, especially with the UXL-18 actually holding an advantage over a LMS-U above 20hz.

It may well be and I just haven't had the right experience with it. Just like this past weekend...I think both the LMS and the SI24 are capable of more than they showed. It's entirely possible that the variation in my demos and the time between them is too great to assess it failry. I have to be honest though, even if the LMS offered more output, I found nothing about them (and this is for me personally) that would have me buying them over the SI or Dayton 18s for any reason.
 
#1,175 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by lemans24  /t/1507423/uxl-18-subwoofer-driver-group-buy-is-now-closed-out-over-done-fini/1170#post_24588721


Please explain how 2 of the SI18s would outperform the UXL-18??


Max db over what frequency range??

What wattage did you run thru SI-18 vs uxl-18?? maximum manufacturer recommendation or other??

What was the enclosure used?? sealed or ported?? small or large ??

Heard both in sealed boxes...problem is multiples of each and varying power. I've heard two SI18s on 1200w a piece and 8 of them on 400w each. A UXL on 2kw I believe. As mentioned above, there was variation and time between the two and I recognize that fact. My opinion is what it is, same as yours will continue to be what it is. I have test and been there for testing enough woofers to know what's what.

Quote:
Originally Posted by realtight  /t/1507423/uxl-18-subwoofer-driver-group-buy-is-now-closed-out-over-done-fini/1170#post_24588722


According to database.com the SI18 is around 4db's less then the UXL18 from 20hz down and the UXL is around 3db's louder at almost every frequency above that... there is nothing diminishing about it, the UXL is worth every penny more then the SI. Do database's real world results not count?

Mr Ricci's assessments certainly do count, a great deal and I respect not only his work, but his subjective opinion too. Given the perfect comparison, your info above is exactly what I am saying. I can put 2 SI18s in a setup (I would mention Dayton too, but they are more money than the SI now, which IMO makes them less of a new purchase value...an I own them too) for $350. That would be equal to the UXL above 20 and maybe a db down below...depending. One can also move placement with the two and smooth response while still having some of the mutual coupling advantage.
 
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