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post #91 of 211 Old 01-17-2014, 05:10 AM
 
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post #92 of 211 Old 01-17-2014, 05:12 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Swolephile View Post


None of the IDmax subs have the output to keep up with my speakers so I will pass on your offer. Thanks.

no but they will sound better and... they can be used in just about any enclosure. including a front loaded horn.

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post #93 of 211 Old 01-17-2014, 05:19 AM
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no but they will sound better and... they can be used in just about any enclosure. including a front loaded horn.

Ive already been down that road. I've owned JL Audio Fathom, Velodyne 18, Bagend Infrasub 18 just to name a few. These subs were much more high end than the sub your pushing. And the SI 24's sound quality is on par with the aforementioned subs I listed.
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post #94 of 211 Old 01-17-2014, 05:20 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by MD28 View Post

no but they will sound better and... they can be used in just about any enclosure. including a front loaded horn.
I think you own or have experiences with IDmax drivers, have you ever listened to SI drivers especially the HS24?
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post #95 of 211 Old 01-17-2014, 05:26 AM
 
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I think you own or have experiences with IDmax drivers, have you ever listened to SI drivers especially the HS24?

yes, i owned the 18. why design a driver thats only good for ib. seriously, makes no sence

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post #96 of 211 Old 01-17-2014, 05:26 AM - Thread Starter
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while debating here, all the panels has been cut except the bracing, will continue tomorrow biggrin.gif the 3/4" MDF is bloody heavy eek.gif
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post #97 of 211 Old 01-17-2014, 06:48 AM
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Your post is very rude. And you have not heard the sub in question yet you are passing judgement.
I don't have to hear a sub to pass judgement. That's one of the perks of being an acoustical engineer. wink.gif
I wouldn't call these drivers a huge value, but they're not bad. In 10 cu ft sealed they have a maximum SPL of 124dB at 50Hz, 112dB at 20Hz. By comparison the Dayton Ultimax 15 in 5 cu ft comes in about 8dB lower, so one of the SI is equal to almost three of the Daytons. For equal SPL I'd go with the option of more smaller cabs spread around the room, but that's a different question entirely. A more appropriate question relates to room size. If it's more than 20 feet in any dimension it's going to take a lot of eq, and therefore power, to get these flat to 20Hz.
BTW, OP, in 10 cu ft your Qtc is .95, and that's not so good. Even heavily stuffed it will only go down to perhaps .8, which is better, but with the high f3 of these .7 would be better.
IMO the manufacturer recommendation of 10cu ft isn't a good one, that driver really wants twice that. The 10 cu ft recommendation is probably to keep potential buyers from being scared away.

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post #98 of 211 Old 01-17-2014, 06:55 AM
 
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I don't have to hear a sub to pass judgement. That's one of the perks of being an acoustical engineer. wink.gif
I wouldn't call these drivers a huge value, but they're not bad. In 10 cu ft sealed they have a maximum SPL of 124dB at 50Hz, 112dB at 20Hz. By comparison the Dayton Ultimax 15 in 5 cu ft comes in about 8dB lower, so one of the SI is equal to almost three of the Daytons. For equal SPL I'd go with the option of more smaller cabs spread around the room, but that's a different question entirely. A more appropriate question relates to room size. If it's more than 20 feet in any dimension it's going to take a lot of eq, and therefore power, to get these flat to 20Hz.
BTW, OP, in 10 cu ft your Qtc is .95, and that's not so good. Even heavily stuffed it will only go down to perhaps .8, which is better, but with the high f3 of these .7 would be better.
IMO the manufacturer recommendation of 10cu ft isn't a good one, that driver really wants twice that. The 10 cu ft recommendation is probably to keep potential buyers from being scared away.

in other words... get 4 4X8 sheets of mdf, cut some 24" holes and slap some legs on those sheets and mount the sub. no sense in even building an enclosure. ib sub... end of debate

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post #99 of 211 Old 01-17-2014, 07:04 AM
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What is wrong with an IB sub?
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post #100 of 211 Old 01-17-2014, 07:05 AM
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Originally Posted by MD28 View Post

in other words... get 4 4X8 sheets of mdf, cut some 24" holes and slap some legs on those sheets and mount the sub. no sense in even building an enclosure. ib sub... end of debate

Seriously, stop crapping on this guys thread. Do people come into your house and tell you everything you are doing wrong or it isn't the way you would do it? And then if they get offended you tell them "well, I know better than you because paper says so". If this was "should I get a this speaker" thread, that would be one thing. But this guy has it. He is posting a build thread. You are being unpleasant. I like reading build threads and what people find out. Trying to shut down projects doesn't help. Sorry. smile.gif

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post #101 of 211 Old 01-17-2014, 07:31 AM
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He is an Image Dynamics fan. Says it all. Waste of time arguing. Take a run of the mill sub, slap a boutique label on it. Market it as a car audio "SQ" driver for a small sealed box and the SQ crowd dirty their pants and pronounce Jihad on anything else that isn't that brand.

Grab 4 or heck even 8 of the new ID max subs and outperform say 2 of the SI24's 20 hertz and below. Since I haven't seen 3rd party specs on them I haven't modeled. But I would bet a dime to a dollar they won't.

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post #102 of 211 Old 01-17-2014, 07:40 AM
 
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He is an Image Dynamics fan. Says it all. Waste of time arguing. Take a run of the mill sub, slap a boutique label on it. Market it as a car audio "SQ" driver for a small sealed box and the SQ crowd dirty their pants and pronounce Jihad on anything else that isn't that brand.

Grab 4 or heck even 8 of the new ID max subs and outperform say 2 of the SI24's 20 hertz and below. Since I haven't seen 3rd party specs on them I haven't modeled. But I would bet a dime to a dollar they won't.

nope... im a good driver fan. image dynamics happens to be one of them. idmax 15- 44mm excursion. Si 24- 36mm excursion. hmmm... thats pretty sad

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post #103 of 211 Old 01-17-2014, 07:59 AM
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nope... im a good driver fan. image dynamics happens to be one of them. idmax 15- 44mm excursion. Si 24- 36mm excursion. hmmm... thats pretty sad

I see you did not respond to my last post. Guys like you can fool others who have not owned nor heard many subs. But you can't fool those who have owned subs up and down the price spectrum as I have.
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post #104 of 211 Old 01-17-2014, 08:01 AM
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nope... im a good driver fan. image dynamics happens to be one of them. idmax 15- 44mm excursion. Si 24- 36mm excursion. hmmm... thats pretty sad

In a car, almost every sub is a "good" sub. Thank god for cabin gain...

Like i said, show me some 3rd party specs. Not marketing specs from the seller. I can slap a sub together and say that it has 75mm of 1 way as well. Doesn't mean it's true. When that sub gets tested by a reputable third party, or Klippel'd and the specs are proven true... I will publicly apologize for doubting. Why wouldn't a company, especially one geared toward the the SQ side of car audio not get as much data to use to sell the thing? Cause mystique sells product to the uninformed.
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post #105 of 211 Old 01-17-2014, 08:05 AM
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Swolephile:
I'm still looking for the engineering textbooks that reveal how a speaker sounds - without hearing it ..
Some sort of magic sense - The force perhaps?
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post #106 of 211 Old 01-17-2014, 08:09 AM
 
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In a car, almost every sub is a "good" sub. Thank god for cabin gain...

Like i said, show me some 3rd party specs. Not marketing specs from the seller. I can slap a sub together and say that it has 75mm of 1 way as well. Doesn't mean it's true. When that sub gets tested by a reputable third party, or Klippel'd and the specs are proven true... I will publicly apologize for doubting. Why wouldn't a company, especially one geared toward the the SQ side of car audio not get as much data to use to sell the thing? Cause mystique sells product to the uninformed.

like i stated before... image dynamics is highly respected in the car audio industry. they have won way to many  SQ competitions. they dont inflate their specs. if anything, they under-rate their products. thats a fact buddy

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post #107 of 211 Old 01-17-2014, 08:26 AM
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You are explaining to the wrong guy. I am car audio first. i owned Image dynamics subs. IDQ and IDmax V2 and V3. There is nothing special about a medium excursion sub built for car audio use.

You can get better and spend less money.

Edit:Sorry that last comment was low.

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post #108 of 211 Old 01-17-2014, 10:11 AM
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Originally Posted by Bill Fitzmaurice View Post

I don't have to hear a sub to pass judgement. That's one of the perks of being an acoustical engineer. wink.gif
I wouldn't call these drivers a huge value, but they're not bad. In 10 cu ft sealed they have a maximum SPL of 124dB at 50Hz, 112dB at 20Hz. By comparison the Dayton Ultimax 15 in 5 cu ft comes in about 8dB lower, so one of the SI is equal to almost three of the Daytons. For equal SPL I'd go with the option of more smaller cabs spread around the room, but that's a different question entirely. A more appropriate question relates to room size. If it's more than 20 feet in any dimension it's going to take a lot of eq, and therefore power, to get these flat to 20Hz.
BTW, OP, in 10 cu ft your Qtc is .95, and that's not so good. Even heavily stuffed it will only go down to perhaps .8, which is better, but with the high f3 of these .7 would be better.
IMO the manufacturer recommendation of 10cu ft isn't a good one, that driver really wants twice that. The 10 cu ft recommendation is probably to keep potential buyers from being scared away.
And this...this, is the rather confounding thing about this driver. Even if I wanted to afford it and build a new cabinet, the qts is in the stratosphere. I suppose that you could beat on the suspension in free air for a duration sufficient enough to mechanically lower qts, but that is hit or miss. The suspension may give a lot or it may give little under such an exercise, but the results would not be dramatic enough to significantly lower qts. in this case.

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post #109 of 211 Old 01-17-2014, 10:12 AM
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Originally Posted by MD28 View Post

in other words... get 4 4X8 sheets of mdf, cut some 24" holes and slap some legs on those sheets and mount the sub. no sense in even building an enclosure. ib sub.
That's not an IB, that's an OB. If you're going to be a critic at least get the terminology correct. rolleyes.gif
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Image dynamics is highly respected in the car audio industry.
So what? I could be mistaken, but I don't believe that the OP is building for his ride.
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idmax 15- 44mm excursion. Si 24- 36mm excursion. hmmm... thats pretty sad
Sad? What's sad is that either can be b*tch slapped by a horn loaded fifteen with 15mm xmax at one quarter the power. But that's neither here nor there, and has nothing to do with the OPs thread.
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Seriously, stop crapping on this guys thread. Do people come into your house and tell you everything you are doing wrong or it isn't the way you would do it?
I have a sneaky suspicion that someone probably should. biggrin.gif

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post #110 of 211 Old 01-17-2014, 10:17 AM
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I have a sneaky suspicion that someone probably should. biggrin.gif


Haha. tongue.gif
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post #111 of 211 Old 01-17-2014, 10:56 AM
 
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That's not an IB, that's an OB. If you're going to be a critic at least get the terminology correct. rolleyes.gif
So what? I could be mistaken, but I don't believe that the OP is building for his ride.
Sad? What's sad is that either can be b*tch slapped by a horn loaded fifteen with 15mm xmax at one quarter the power. But that's neither here nor there, and has nothing to do with the OPs thread.
I have a sneaky suspicion that someone probably should. biggrin.gif

and your the smart ass who runs people out of your own forum. lots of room to talk buddy.

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post #112 of 211 Old 01-17-2014, 11:03 AM
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All part of the cost of doing Bill-ness MD28 wink.gif

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post #113 of 211 Old 01-17-2014, 11:23 AM
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and... i dont need to listen to the sub to pass judgement. reading the specs is all you need to know to not buy it. i guarantee i can burn the voice coils in that sub using the recommended 1500 watts. i'll pay for shipping if you send me yours and... if i burn up the sub, i'll give you 2 image dynamics idmax subs. want to?

Totally clipped to bejesus 1500 watts, sure you can burn up the coil. You can burn up almost any coil with enough jagged clipped signal. Solid non-clipped power while playing music and 1500 watts will not hurt the driver. Nice to theorize while plugging IDMax drivers though.

Speaking of neither here nor there I saw in this thread someone plastering Xmax values in an attempt to make the HS 24 look bad. I have a report posted on my web page from the IDMax v2 showing 22mm Xmax. How is that higher than 35mm? We don't list Xmax as "peak diaphragm travel" but rather one-way linear travel which is the way the term "Xmax" should be defined as.

PS: Anyone who has actually heard the driver knows what it will actually do. biggrin.gif Swolephile is case in point. His list of previous owned subwoofers is pretty impressive yet the comments he has made about the HS 24 are being thrown to the side to instead look at what a computer enclosure modeling program says it will do in an anechoic chamber.
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post #114 of 211 Old 01-17-2014, 04:37 PM
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Originally Posted by Bill Fitzmaurice View Post


BTW, OP, in 10 cu ft your Qtc is .95, and that's not so good. Even heavily stuffed it will only go down to perhaps .8, which is better, but with the high f3 of these .7 would be better.
IMO the manufacturer recommendation of 10cu ft isn't a good one, that driver really wants twice that. The 10 cu ft recommendation is probably to keep potential buyers from being scared away.

I almost went this route as well. But, I did have about 15-16 cf for driver planned in an 8 ft long cab.
They do need lots of volume. The value is in the eye or ear or wallet of the beholder.

There is definitely a wow factor having that 24 in site. cool.gif As, you mentioned four 18s is the better choice if you have the room or if you want to smooth out the response.

I would buy them though, just for the having something different. Sometimes that is the intrinsic value that makes audio fun.
After all, we could all be driving smart cars.tongue.gif

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post #115 of 211 Old 01-17-2014, 05:24 PM
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"nope... im a good driver fan. image dynamics happens to be one of them. idmax 15- 44mm excursion. Si 24- 36mm excursion. hmmm... thats pretty sad"

check that spec. it is probably 2 way, so 22mm one way. that is decent for a 15", but nothing remarkable.

seems overpriced to me:

http://www.amazon.com/IDMAX15-V-4-D4-Dynamics-Subwoofer/dp/B00E82ERQE

then again, lots of uninformed buyers out there...
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post #116 of 211 Old 01-17-2014, 05:24 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Fitzmaurice View Post

I don't have to hear a sub to pass judgement. That's one of the perks of being an acoustical engineer. wink.gif
I wouldn't call these drivers a huge value, but they're not bad. In 10 cu ft sealed they have a maximum SPL of 124dB at 50Hz, 112dB at 20Hz. By comparison the Dayton Ultimax 15 in 5 cu ft comes in about 8dB lower, so one of the SI is equal to almost three of the Daytons. For equal SPL I'd go with the option of more smaller cabs spread around the room, but that's a different question entirely. A more appropriate question relates to room size. If it's more than 20 feet in any dimension it's going to take a lot of eq, and therefore power, to get these flat to 20Hz.
BTW, OP, in 10 cu ft your Qtc is .95, and that's not so good. Even heavily stuffed it will only go down to perhaps .8, which is better, but with the high f3 of these .7 would be better.
IMO the manufacturer recommendation of 10cu ft isn't a good one, that driver really wants twice that. The 10 cu ft recommendation is probably to keep potential buyers from being scared away.
Bill, do you mean 20 cubic feet is the ideal box volume for this driver? eek.gif by heavily stuffed, I guess you mean stuffing until the box is full & tight, right? anyways to get the Qtc down to 0.7?
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post #117 of 211 Old 01-17-2014, 05:25 PM
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that seems about right. we were looking at a GIANT low tuned ported cab in the other thread. i still think that one would be pretty fun...just to see it sitting there.

EDIT: here is the quote:

"You guys are making me nervous since Im already in line to be the guinea pig for this product."

you could always go ported.

48 cubic feet tuned to 15hz looks pretty good. :-)


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post #118 of 211 Old 01-17-2014, 05:28 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by LTD02 View Post

that seems about right. we were looking at a GIANT low tuned ported cab in the other thread. i still think that one would be pretty fun...just to see it sitting there.

EDIT: here is the quote:

"You guys are making me nervous since Im already in line to be the guinea pig for this product."

you could always go ported.

48 cubic feet tuned to 15hz looks pretty good. :-)

Hi John, any links to that thread? no harms reading it biggrin.gif but I prefer a sealed cab for the extreme single digit low freq. tongue.gif
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post #119 of 211 Old 01-17-2014, 05:52 PM
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that post was from the thread: Stereo Integrity 24" subwoofer - not kidding! - Page 7

i think joe and i discussed the idea of a giant ported cab in pm as he was considering a range of alternatives prior to building the LOWARHORN!

~4 x ~6 x ~2 feet! roughly not counting driver and port. it doesn't look 'that' big. :-)



kind of reminds me of scott's old cabs.

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post #120 of 211 Old 01-17-2014, 06:48 PM
 
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that post was from the thread: Stereo Integrity 24" subwoofer - not kidding! - Page 7

i think joe and i discussed the idea of a giant ported cab in pm as he was considering a range of alternatives prior to building the LOWARHORN!

~4 x ~6 x ~2 feet! roughly not counting driver and port. it doesn't look 'that' big. :-)



kind of reminds me of scott's old cabs.

the ultimate party speaker! frat party all day... everyday. it would take atleast 8 sheets of 3/4 ply lol

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