Subwoofer Console Table - Concept Design - AVS Forum
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Old 01-19-2014, 10:13 AM - Thread Starter
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Since my IB dreams have been squashed I am now having to come up with another Wife Approved Subwoofer design for the living room.

Our intent was to put some type of console table under the wall mounted TV to add something to the space. The wife is cool with me building something.

I was thinking that I could build a subwoofer cabinet that looks like a console table, here is an example of the "look"



If this is a faux cabinet, I could put dual opposing 12's not the sides and reduce vibrations....

Is this even a feasible concept?
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Old 01-19-2014, 10:54 AM
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I'm seeing a Marty Sub with the port folded so that both driver and port face down, should work great and then you wouldn't need to work at hiding the driver. Don't remember if one was already sketched up like that. Or dual opposing sealed would work well too. Go for it!
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Old 01-19-2014, 12:10 PM
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You can use just about anything as an enclosure as long as it can be sealed properly and fits the bill regarding desired volume.

I would go down firing if you plan on using that enclosure.

The other issue is that your preferred placement of the table/sub may be the worst possible for the room. So, you would need to try a sub in that location to determine if that placement is even feasible.
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Old 01-21-2014, 02:00 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by jpmst3 View Post

You can use just about anything as an enclosure as long as it can be sealed properly and fits the bill regarding desired volume.

I would go down firing if you plan on using that enclosure.

The other issue is that your preferred placement of the table/sub may be the worst possible for the room. So, you would need to try a sub in that location to determine if that placement is even feasible.

I like the idea of a downward firing design as it would be the most stealth, however, I am concerned about the room modes and placements of this which would only have one location, centered on the front wall under the TV. All this is hypothetical for now until the house is built anyway, which I will then test the location with my existing sub (SVS SB-12PLUS). How would your recommend I build downward firing? One large sealed sub with two drivers?

The cabinet design I have in mind would be 60" wide, 18" deep and about 36" tall. I can make the actual internal sub enclosure any size that fits within these specs...

Would there be an advantage to mounting the drivers on the sides of the cabinets (15" drivers @ 60" apart, would be firing at my L/R speaker which is about 3' away and then a wall which would be a total distance of 4.5' away)? In this configuration is there any preference to design other than what I prefer, either a dual opposing sealed box or two sealed boxes or two ported boxes.

Wouldn't two separate boxes be the most ideal to help with nodes? Or is a 60" (1/3 of room width) spread between them not enough to make a difference?
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Old 01-21-2014, 02:09 PM
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The only slight advantage to side mounting (dual-opposed) would be the cancellation of any vibrations. You will get some vibrations transferred to the cabinet depending on how heavy the enclosure is, how much power, size of the drivers, etc. etc.
Not a big deal though by any means. Most enclosures are not dual opposed.

Yes, multiple subs are almost always better at smoothing the response. The more subs the better. It is all about tolerances and compromises.

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Old 01-21-2014, 09:05 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by antisuck View Post

I'm seeing a Marty Sub with the port folded so that both driver and port face down, should work great and then you wouldn't need to work at hiding the driver. Don't remember if one was already sketched up like that. Or dual opposing sealed would work well too. Go for it!

Looking at the Marty Sub, it appears this has only one driver yet the outcome is higher spl than dual opposed. Would the size of my room come into play with this? My room is large 18x18x10 plus it is open to most of the house. Opens to kitchen & dinnette at the back, opens up to Hallway and dining room to the right and opens up to a small hallway to the front....my guess, overall is 10,000 cu ft+.

If I went with a slot ported design like the Marty I would have to scale down to a 15" driver. When I model the equivalent 15" Dayton HO driver with winisd it calculates that the enclosure volume for a ported design needs to be around 3.46 cu ft. Seems the Vas of the 15" driver is very low at 3.87 cu ft. 18" HO Vas is 10.52 cu ft (almost 3 times more). Is this right?

I would love to go with a single 18" but I am trying to keep the console table to 60" wide, 18" deep and 36" tall, and have to consider WAF, so this leaves me with only the rear baffle for mounting an 18" driver (i.e. firing into the wall at a distance of about 3" from the wall, I could put the slot port anywhere but I have no idea if this is even a feasible design option or how I would go about it? Any advice?
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Old 01-21-2014, 09:41 PM
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There are other MUCH more knowledgeable than I am in this area, since you hadn't posted the dimensions yet I just looked at the general form factor and thought "downfiring Marty sub!" Firing into the wall might not be a problem at all though, I wouldn't discount the idea if it lets you attain your goals.
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Old 01-22-2014, 01:17 AM
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something in that form factor would definitely work. i'm kind of surprised that we don't see more such "stealth" builds / commercial offerings.

there are an infinite number of possibilities, but if you wanted a ported downfiring, that could work great.


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Old 01-22-2014, 01:22 AM
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or maybe something like this if you want to use two drivers that are more narrow so the depth could be kept down.

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Old 01-22-2014, 06:43 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LTD02 View Post

something in that form factor would definitely work. i'm kind of surprised that we don't see more such "stealth" builds / commercial offerings.

there are an infinite number of possibilities, but if you wanted a ported downfiring, that could work great.

LTD02, thank you for your input! I was hoping you would chime in smile.gif

Your dual downward firing downward ported design is exactly what I am thinking. Would this need to be two separate enclosures? Also do you have a 15" driver recommendation? The Dayton 15" HO does not seem to be ideal for ported config being that Vas is so low, is this a correct assumption? If not, is 3.5 cu ft the right volume to be considering for this driver?

I am going to have about 15 cu ft of gross volume to work with, so probably around ~12 cu ft after reinforcing all the baffles, bracing, and speaker displacement.
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Old 01-22-2014, 07:47 AM
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The 15” SI works out pretty nice in 6cf. Not sure if it’s still available or not though without looking.

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Old 01-22-2014, 08:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LTD02 View Post

something in that form factor would definitely work. i'm kind of surprised that we don't see more such "stealth" builds / commercial offerings.

there are an infinite number of possibilities, but if you wanted a ported downfiring, that could work great.

I think that is the problem, there are infinite possibilities so they would almost all have to be one offs for mucho $.
How many times do we hear, if it were only 1/2" shorter or 2 inches longer or tuned 2 Hz lower or was finished in dark stain instead of golden, can the legs be longer, etc.,etc.?

I like stealth but most people want to show off what they have rather than hide it.

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Old 01-22-2014, 02:44 PM - Thread Starter
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I am trying to learn unibox, but was wondering if someone can help me model the SI HT 15" and/or the DA HO 15". I would follow LTD02's design above of two drivers, ported, in a 10-11 cu ft cabinet.
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Old 01-31-2014, 08:26 PM - Thread Starter
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Been reading the archives in order to get as educated as I can for this build. Still leaning towards two 15" downward firing with a maximum cabinet size of 18 deep, 22-24" tall (will have legs to bring it to 30" tall) and 60" long.

I read a lot about dual opposed in a sealed configuration and the benefits of it reducing cabinet vibration. My question is can you have a dual opposed configuration AND be ported? Do you still reap the reward of the reduction in cabinet vibrations? In this config do I need the same amount of volume as if I were to build two separate cabinets?

e.g. Dayton Audio RSS390HF-4 15" calls for a ported volume of 8.96 cu ft, so if I had two drivers sharing the same cabinet space in a dual opposed ported cabinet config I would then need 17.92 cu ft?
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Old 01-31-2014, 10:56 PM
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If you have 18 cuft you could do two minimarty subs side by side. That way if you ever change plans you could move them. You could still use 18" and two martysubs with dsp would be able to be impressive . Yes it might have some nulls but the null performance down 5-10 dbs would still be powerful .

You mention vibrations , and if you buildthe martysub with lots of bracing like I did then it will be stable. My martysub has some Knick knacks on it and there silent. I put my hand on the box during large bass scenes and you feel the bass on the top but it doesn't make noise. I used lots of glue , nails , screws , and adhesive . smile.gif
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Old 02-01-2014, 07:51 PM - Thread Starter
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Alright, I am convinced say no more! Just pulled the trigger on 2 SI HT18D2. Super stoked. Now I just need nice weather so I can get building a cabinet.

Will the iNuke 3000 do the job for amplification?
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Old 02-01-2014, 08:07 PM
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Alright, I am convinced say no more! Just pulled the trigger on 2 SI HT18D2. Super stoked. Now I just need nice weather so I can get building a cabinet.

Will the iNuke 3000 do the job for amplification?

Perfffffffect. And there on sale
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Old 02-01-2014, 08:19 PM - Thread Starter
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Perfffffffect. And there on sale
Sweetwater.com

Cool. I am a long way from being able to use these so I will continue to watch the market for iNuke 3000 deals.

I am second guessing my purchase...should I have bought the D2 or D4? This is our living room set up so I will never add any more subs (HT is a whole different story)...my logic on the D2 was to wire them in series for a 4 ohm load x 2 channels on the iNuke which would give each one 820 Watts correct?
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Old 02-01-2014, 08:23 PM
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Cool. I am a long way from being able to use these so I will continue to watch the market for iNuke 3000 deals.

I am second guessing my purchase...should I have bought the D2 or D4? This is our living room set up so I will never add any more subs (HT is a whole different story)...my logic on the D2 was to wire them in series for a 4 ohm load x 2 channels on the iNuke which would give each one 820 Watts correct?

I would jump on the amp(s) during this sale.

Why wait and pay $50 or more for the same thing later?

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Old 02-01-2014, 08:27 PM - Thread Starter
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I would jump on the amp(s) during this sale.

Why wait and pay $50 or more for the same thing later?

We are in the process of building the new house so there is a long list of things I need to buy. I jumped on the SI's because as I understand it they are no longer going to make them. In 4 months (god its going to be painful staring at these things for 4 months) when I can finally power these up there may be a new cheap amp with DSP or the iNuke might be even cheaper... just a gamble I am willing to take. But I appreciate your concern for my wallet wink.gif
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Old 02-01-2014, 08:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chalugadp View Post

Perfffffffect. And there on sale
Sweetwater.com

Cool. I am a long way from being able to use these so I will continue to watch the market for iNuke 3000 deals.

I am second guessing my purchase...should I have bought the D2 or D4? This is our living room set up so I will never add any more subs (HT is a whole different story)...my logic on the D2 was to wire them in series for a 4 ohm load x 2 channels on the iNuke which would give each one 820 Watts correct?

Need an expert to verify but I think you want d4 with bridged 8ohm which gives you 1100 watts a side which is the perfect power to the si. My si18 is d4 wired that way
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Old 02-01-2014, 08:31 PM - Thread Starter
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Need an expert to verify but I think you want d4 with bridged 8ohm which gives you 1100 watts a side which is the perfect power to the si. My si18 is d4 wired that way

But you have one SI, right? I would have two. So I could potentially wire the voice coils in series to give me 4 ohms then wire the drivers in series to give me 8 ohms into a bridged iNuke...
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Old 02-01-2014, 08:35 PM
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Quote:
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Need an expert to verify but I think you want d4 with bridged 8ohm which gives you 1100 watts a side which is the perfect power to the si. My si18 is d4 wired that way

But you have one SI, right? I would have two. So I could potentially wire the voice coils in series to give me 4 ohms then wire the drivers in series to give me 8 ohms into a bridged iNuke...

Need ltd02 or another pro to confirm. confused.gif
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Old 02-01-2014, 08:40 PM - Thread Starter
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Need ltd02 or another pro to confirm. confused.gif

Not sure my cabinet volume can take that much power anyway...I am finding it challenging to model a port that fits with a 5 cu ft cabinet per driver @ 820 W
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Old 02-01-2014, 09:55 PM
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You might reconsider getting the D4. They can be configured into 2 ohm singles or 4 ohm duals These configs are close to optimum for the NU3000.
The NU3000 is capable of doing 2 ohm stereo (one driver per channel) or 4 ohm bridged (two drivers per one bridged amp).
2 ohm singles or 4 ohm duals, each D4 can draw ~1kW from an NU3000.
A pair of D4 is a good match for the NU3000.

If you go with D2, you might want two NU3000 or a NU6000. You'll not want for power and have loads of headroom.
However, a single NU3000 powering two D2 can only put ~500W into each driver. So, you'll be leaving something on the table and the amp will have no headroom (clipping is more likely to occur).

Two would seem to be two too many to me too.
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Old 02-01-2014, 10:08 PM
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^^^ yeah what the smart dude said biggrin.gif
Also if you boost some eq in the 20-40hz range it chews up some power.
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Old 02-02-2014, 01:21 AM
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Quote:
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Not sure my cabinet volume can take that much power anyway...I am finding it challenging to model a port that fits with a 5 cu ft cabinet per driver @ 820 W

Try 10cf 2X15” 1700w with a Butter dropped in at about 16 and 2> 3X10” slot ports 17.6 tune. I only have the D2 on file but it should be the same/close as the D4 (which you want)

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Old 02-02-2014, 09:53 AM - Thread Starter
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Thanks Oli and Chalu, I have emailed SI to see if I can change my order to the D4.

Here is what I was able to model in sketch up, obviously still need to add 6" legs to it. It turned out a little bigger then I planned but I think it will be OK.

Ports are 2 1/2" x 7 5/8" with a length of around 21 1/2".



Vb is 6.16
The port section consumes around .6 cu ft
the driver consume .25 cu ft
bracing will probably take up around .15 cu ft

Modeled with the SI HT18D4

I'm on a mac so only have unibox. but it appears that my port air speed will be too high with this design...starts to exceed 17 m/s at 33 hz. Any recommendations?
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Old 02-02-2014, 11:08 AM
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In case I threw you off?.. I was mod the 15” SI’s..

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Old 02-02-2014, 12:21 PM - Thread Starter
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No worries, I saw that you modeled the 15's. Mini Marty uses 18's but I may not be able to get them to work with my limited cabinet size. Need to figure it out so if can correct my order in the morning.

If anyone can help me model the 18's that would be great. Need to determine how I can get the port velocity down in this cabinet size...
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