Fusion 15 Sentinel or Alpha 12 Zephyr or Fusion 12 Tempest - Page 4 - AVS Forum
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post #91 of 264 Old 02-14-2014, 10:41 AM
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Originally Posted by lemans24 View Post

I still think the compression driver in the JTR Noesis line is better than the DNA 360 but I am willing to buy the fusion-15 sentinel on value for the money...can't be beat for around $500 per speaker!!

The big Noesis 1.4" coaxial is $700 by itself. If you're talking about the 1" BMS, it's been tested and it's pretty much the same as all the other good popular 1" polyimide diaphragm drivers like the DE250 or DNA-360.
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post #92 of 264 Old 02-14-2014, 10:52 AM
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Originally Posted by tuxedocivic View Post

Getting 212HT performance for less money isn't exactly difficult. Getting that in an AIY kit probably is. jbrown is thinking about that kind of speaker right now.

I'm surprised how many people are opposed to building their own cabs. Flat packs are nice, but is it a lack of tools? Knowledge? Time? I didn't think that would be such a hold back.


Hmmm...212 goes for over $1700...fusion-15 with flat pack and assembled crossover and elbow grease...under $600 is not difficult at all. There is a world of difference to carve wood and create your own cabinet as compared to AIY flat packs!!! Cutting wood requires way more skill if you want the cabinet to look moderately half decent. EricH's flatpacks look outstanding to me mainly because of the CNC cutting. How many DIY's can make a cabinet that good unless they have all of the tools. How many want a great HT speakers for as cheap as possible and all they have to do is AIY and paint!!!

 

I am sure EricH sell a large number of kits to the AIY crowd and probably even more than the true DIYer's.

 

Don't know about you...but i don't want any crappy cabinet work in my living room, no matter how good the speaker sounds and i don't even have to worry about WAF.:)

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post #93 of 264 Old 02-14-2014, 11:12 AM
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Originally Posted by Erich H View Post


The big Noesis 1.4" coaxial is $700 by itself. If you're talking about the 1" BMS, it's been tested and it's pretty much the same as all the other good popular 1" polyimide diaphragm drivers like the DE250 or DNA-360.


good...then the fusion-15 is even more of a deal compared to the JTR Noesis 228!!

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post #94 of 264 Old 02-14-2014, 12:28 PM
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Originally Posted by lemans24 View Post


good...then the fusion-15 is even more of a deal compared to the JTR Noesis 228!!

Its a better value but I still think the 228HT's are a better speaker.
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post #95 of 264 Old 02-14-2014, 02:30 PM
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Originally Posted by jbrown15 View Post

Its a better value but I still think the 228HT's are a better speaker.

That's an odd thing to say when the Fusion-15 hasn't even been completed yet. wink.gif
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post #96 of 264 Old 02-14-2014, 02:48 PM
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Originally Posted by jbrown15 View Post

Its a better value but I still think the 228HT's are a better speaker.
Under 80hz and the fusion-15 will take the 228. The fusion-15 can go down to 40hz and probably lower depending on room.
Should have much more mid bass too...I would take the fusion-15 over the 228 if I mainly use it for movies.

I do think the 228 is a great speaker aswell...JTR has been the touchstone so far for the type of HT speakers I want...
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post #97 of 264 Old 02-14-2014, 02:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tuxedocivic View Post

Getting 212HT performance for less money isn't exactly difficult. Getting that in an AIY kit probably is. jbrown is thinking about that kind of speaker right now.

I'm surprised how many people are opposed to building their own cabs. Flat packs are nice, but is it a lack of tools? Knowledge? Time? I didn't think that would be such a hold back.

It is. tongue.gif
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post #98 of 264 Old 02-14-2014, 03:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lemans24 View Post

Under 80hz and the fusion-15 will take the 228. The fusion-15 can go down to 40hz and probably lower depending on room.
Should have much more mid bass too...I would take the fusion-15 over the 228 if I mainly use it for movies.

I do think the 228 is a great speaker aswell...JTR has been the touchstone so far for the type of HT speakers I want...

Yeah well no kidding...lol considering pretty much all JTR speakers are designed by Jeff to be crossed at 80hz.

I'd take my JTR's over most speaker for movie use. Content below 80hz is for subs so why worry about having a speaker for movie use that will play to 40hz?
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post #99 of 264 Old 02-14-2014, 03:56 PM
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If you want my personal opinion, I think the Fusion-12 sounds better, when crossed to some very capable subwoofers, then the JTR triple-8's that I spent some time with a while back. I have absolutely no doubts that the Seos-15 based Fusion-15 will out perform the Tripple-12's, and likely be on par with the 228. I say this based on my listening experience, and what all I have read, with most of that opinion based on what I have actually heard. I got the chance to hear the 228's a while back and to be quite honest, I did not think they were any better, perhaps only marginally, than the Seos-12 based speakers that my cousin built.
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post #100 of 264 Old 02-14-2014, 05:24 PM
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I'll have to hold off judgement on the Tempest's, it will have to wait until chalugadp or WarrenBerry build theirs. Then I'll be able to compare them directly to my 228HT's, with that said my comments were based on what I've read of the Tempest for this GTG http://www.avsforum.com/t/1468211/ne-spring-speaker-shootout-results-thread-april-13-2013

Where pretty much everyone agreed that the Noesis 212HT's we're the top speaker along with the Cat 12's. It also widely known in the JTR threads that for movie use the 228HT's and 212HT's are basically identical, music is where the 212HT's pull away from the 228's. But so they should considering the 212 has a $700 compression driver.

This summer I'm most likely going to build my own version of the 212HT's using top quality parts, BMS 4593ND compression driver, XR1464 waveguide and AE TD12X drivers. But all of that means nothing if you can't nail down an awesome crossover. Like I've said all along IMO the crossovers is what separates the JTR speakers from others. Anyone can easily go buy all of the components to make any JTR speaker, Jeff has never hidden what parts he uses. His crossover design is the difference maker IMO.

I look forward to my upcoming speaker build though. smile.gif
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post #101 of 264 Old 02-15-2014, 04:40 PM - Thread Starter
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Whats this? biggrin.gif


My Equipment:

Fusion 12 Tempest (LCR)
DIY Sealed 18" Dayton HO Refrence Subs (2)
Electricity
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post #102 of 264 Old 02-15-2014, 05:12 PM
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post #103 of 264 Old 02-15-2014, 05:22 PM
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congrats...good choice.

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post #104 of 264 Old 02-15-2014, 06:16 PM
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The 'Anticipation Level' makes me laugh every time I see it. biggrin.gif I need to put stuff like that on every one of the kits!
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post #105 of 264 Old 02-15-2014, 06:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Erich H View Post

The 'Anticipation Level' makes me laugh every time I see it. biggrin.gif I need to put stuff like that on every one of the kits!

The best part is unlike most things in life , the actual results meet the anticipation level. cool.gif
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post #106 of 264 Old 02-15-2014, 06:29 PM - Thread Starter
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Decided to go with assembled crossovers...

was really going back and forth with that decision.

My Equipment:

Fusion 12 Tempest (LCR)
DIY Sealed 18" Dayton HO Refrence Subs (2)
Electricity
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post #107 of 264 Old 02-15-2014, 06:30 PM
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Originally Posted by tuxedocivic View Post

Getting 212HT performance for less money isn't exactly difficult. Getting that in an AIY kit probably is. jbrown is thinking about that kind of speaker right now.

I'm surprised how many people are opposed to building their own cabs. Flat packs are nice, but is it a lack of tools? Knowledge? Time? I didn't think that would be such a hold back.

Time, tools (no sense buying tools for only a couple of builds), and space (I don't have a garage or a shed).
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post #108 of 264 Old 02-16-2014, 06:44 AM
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Decided to go with assembled crossovers...

was really going back and forth with that decision.

Good choice. The XO's I received were not the wood base you see on the website. They are circuit boards and are very well make. Nothing to do but strip a few wires and connect. Not even any need for speaker leads. Everything can be secured using the driver and cabinet binding posts. I should have taken pics of the xo's before I installed but well worth the extra $21...no brainer.
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post #109 of 264 Old 02-16-2014, 07:37 AM
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The price on the boards will likely have to go up because of the cost of the PCB and about 6' of speaker wire added in. I just haven't had time to figure out the actual costs yet.
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post #110 of 264 Old 02-16-2014, 07:39 AM - Thread Starter
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As far as stuffing goes I figured pink fiberglass. How much is enough? 2" id guess? Keep the stuffing off of the xovers as im sure they would get hot.

My Equipment:

Fusion 12 Tempest (LCR)
DIY Sealed 18" Dayton HO Refrence Subs (2)
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post #111 of 264 Old 02-16-2014, 08:40 AM
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You can cover the crossovers, just keep it away from the ports. I'd use pillow stuffing instead of fiberglass.
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post #112 of 264 Old 02-16-2014, 08:57 AM
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Originally Posted by Erich H View Post

You can cover the crossovers, just keep it away from the ports. I'd use pillow stuffing instead of fiberglass.
I'm also a fan of polyfil. I've never been keen on the concept of a ported speaker constantly blowing very small amounts of very small pieces of fiber glass into the room.
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post #113 of 264 Old 02-16-2014, 09:05 AM
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As far as stuffing goes I figured pink fiberglass..
Fiberglass yes, home insulation, no. Type 700 rigid glass is good, as it doesn't fall apart. Polyester batting and foam are also good for lining ported enclosures. Loose materials are OK for sealed cabs, but home insulation glass fibers can get into the driver suspension.

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post #114 of 264 Old 02-16-2014, 11:03 AM - Thread Starter
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Thanks guys.

Would this work?

http://mobile.walmart.com/ip/Olfa-Spinning-Rotary-Mat-12-X12/14003373

My Equipment:

Fusion 12 Tempest (LCR)
DIY Sealed 18" Dayton HO Refrence Subs (2)
Electricity
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post #115 of 264 Old 02-16-2014, 11:44 AM
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Thanks guys.

Would this work?

http://mobile.walmart.com/ip/Olfa-Spinning-Rotary-Mat-12-X12/14003373

Yes.
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post #116 of 264 Old 03-05-2014, 02:13 PM
 
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Have any serious nutters or there gone active crossover on these fine beasts?
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post #117 of 264 Old 03-10-2014, 04:33 PM - Thread Starter
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My Equipment:

Fusion 12 Tempest (LCR)
DIY Sealed 18" Dayton HO Refrence Subs (2)
Electricity
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post #118 of 264 Old 03-10-2014, 04:40 PM
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Time to build some boxes tongue.gif
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post #119 of 264 Old 03-20-2014, 11:27 PM - Thread Starter
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Well lets update this excuse for a post.



The parts arrived! And theres a cute dog. Hes not mine






Working the CNC program to cut out the boxes. For once brute force and ignorance wont work here. Time to do it the easy method






measure out the thickness of the 3/4" mdf with a vernier. Turns out it was .77"






horay the test worked! Straight to the garbage for him, lets get this going






Whopsee, turns out this is what happened when we drove the machine a little hard. Oh well




At the end of the night the pieces were cut, the dadoes actually lined up and we started assembling. More pics to follow. 3 boxes are almost done, glue'd and screw'd

Interestingly enough we had to measure out new baffles from the one Eric sent me with the speaker kit. They're pretty much bang on. The best part was trying to find the length of the triangles for the corners of the horn. Now they didn't teach me anything about finance or taxes in high school but you're god damned right I remember Pythagoras theorem.

My Equipment:

Fusion 12 Tempest (LCR)
DIY Sealed 18" Dayton HO Refrence Subs (2)
Electricity
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post #120 of 264 Old 03-20-2014, 11:55 PM
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These things are looking awesome, I can't wait to hear them! and hopefully soon wink.gif
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