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post #451 of 588 Old 08-20-2014, 10:18 PM
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Originally Posted by noah katz View Post
WG's won't work as well as high dispersion speakers if the ceiling speakers are pointed straight down, but if you can tilt/toe them properly they will be superior, giving more even coverage across the listening area, same as toeing in WG fronts.
That becomes increasingly difficult as more listeners are present. I tried it in my design. Works fine for ear level WG, but near impossible for ceiling mounts. And then there's the baffle size. Coax's are just more compact.

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post #452 of 588 Old 08-21-2014, 02:26 AM
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All this talk about Atmos, but, has any receiver manufacture actually commited to bringing this to their lineup any time soon? I rarely, if ever, visit the AVR-Pre/Pro-Amplifier forums so perhaps I missed it? Are all of you guys planning to upgrade to a new receiver or processor in order to have Atmos?

I am in desperate need of a new receiver as my old Yamaha RX-V663 is starting to become quirky. I purchased a Denon AVR-3310 off EBay a year ago, and when I just recently went to hook it up, it turned out to be DOA, which I have no legal recourse for due to the fact that I waited over a year to hook it up, and don't even remember who the seller was.

So with that being said, are there any affordable receivers that will include Atmos (and pre-outs for my 5 amplifiers!) any time in the foreseeable future? I have had my eye on a Emotiva UMC-200 for a while, so perhaps I will just go with it and wait on Atmos to become more mainstream!!
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post #453 of 588 Old 08-21-2014, 06:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Martycool007 View Post
All this talk about Atmos, but, has any receiver manufacture actually commited to bringing this to their lineup any time soon? I rarely, if ever, visit the AVR-Pre/Pro-Amplifier forums so perhaps I missed it? Are all of you guys planning to upgrade to a new receiver or processor in order to have Atmos?

I am in desperate need of a new receiver as my old Yamaha RX-V663 is starting to become quirky. I purchased a Denon AVR-3310 off EBay a year ago, and when I just recently went to hook it up, it turned out to be DOA, which I have no legal recourse for due to the fact that I waited over a year to hook it up, and don't even remember who the seller was.

So with that being said, are there any affordable receivers that will include Atmos (and pre-outs for my 5 amplifiers!) any time in the foreseeable future? I have had my eye on a Emotiva UMC-200 for a while, so perhaps I will just go with it and wait on Atmos to become more mainstream!!

Pioneer, Denon , Marantz and Onkyo all have AVR with Atmos

Pioneer - http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/PU...a+Home+Theater

Denon - http://www.digitaltrends.com/home-th...s-denon-atmos/

Onkyo - http://dolbyatmos.onkyousa.com/

Marantz - http://www.gizmag.com/marantz-dolby-...eceiver/33400/

I would only suggest you wait until you find an AVR with HDMI 2.x and Atmos. That should tie you over for a good few years.
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post #454 of 588 Old 08-21-2014, 07:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Martycool007 View Post
All this talk about Atmos, but, has any receiver manufacture actually commited to bringing this to their lineup any time soon? I rarely, if ever, visit the AVR-Pre/Pro-Amplifier forums so perhaps I missed it? Are all of you guys planning to upgrade to a new receiver or processor in order to have Atmos?

I am in desperate need of a new receiver as my old Yamaha RX-V663 is starting to become quirky. I purchased a Denon AVR-3310 off EBay a year ago, and when I just recently went to hook it up, it turned out to be DOA, which I have no legal recourse for due to the fact that I waited over a year to hook it up, and don't even remember who the seller was.

So with that being said, are there any affordable receivers that will include Atmos (and pre-outs for my 5 amplifiers!) any time in the foreseeable future? I have had my eye on a Emotiva UMC-200 for a while, so perhaps I will just go with it and wait on Atmos to become more mainstream!!

Pioneer, Denon , Marantz, Onkyo and Yamaha all have AVR with Atmos

Pioneer - http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/PU...a+Home+Theater

Denon - http://www.digitaltrends.com/home-th...s-denon-atmos/

Onkyo - http://dolbyatmos.onkyousa.com/

Marantz - http://www.gizmag.com/marantz-dolby-...eceiver/33400/

I would strongly suggest getting an AVR with HDMI 2.x and Atmos. That should tie you over for a good few years.

I see Yamaha are doing a Pioneer Firmware promise as well. I am a BIG Yammy fan and have been using them for the past decade.
Now I would totally jump on a 3050 that had Front+Rear Presence along with Atmos .4 height capabilities.
How does 11.2.4 sound?

That would require 17 Preouts and some serious DSP and YPAO room acoustic modifications but it would be totally worth it.

Not really a review but a good read - http://pocinc.net/blog/product-revie...el-4k-receiver
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post #455 of 588 Old 08-21-2014, 12:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Martycool007 View Post
All this talk about Atmos, but, has any receiver manufacture actually commited to bringing this to their lineup any time soon? I rarely, if ever, visit the AVR-Pre/Pro-Amplifier forums so perhaps I missed it? Are all of you guys planning to upgrade to a new receiver or processor in order to have Atmos?

I am in desperate need of a new receiver as my old Yamaha RX-V663 is starting to become quirky. I purchased a Denon AVR-3310 off EBay a year ago, and when I just recently went to hook it up, it turned out to be DOA, which I have no legal recourse for due to the fact that I waited over a year to hook it up, and don't even remember who the seller was.

So with that being said, are there any affordable receivers that will include Atmos (and pre-outs for my 5 amplifiers!) any time in the foreseeable future? I have had my eye on a Emotiva UMC-200 for a while, so perhaps I will just go with it and wait on Atmos to become more mainstream!!
As you see in Nuno C's postings, there's plenty choice. There should be content on Bluray by the year end.

I wouldn't bother with less than 4 overheads. Hence you need a 9-channel AVR (so called 5.1.4 layout in Atmos speak) and these are not very cheap. There are however HTiB Atmos packages for less than 1K...

I have the UMC-1 myself. It has been utterly flawless and I very much like how it sounds. It was one of the last produced. Bought it for the upgrade card, really. Intended to sell it on, but I tried it just for fun. Sold the AVR instead!

For the HT, I have my thoughts set on the Marantz AV7702, a processor which does 7.2.4 and has full XLR outputs. Without Atmos now available, it would have been the XMC-1, no doubt.

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post #456 of 588 Old 08-22-2014, 10:00 AM
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Yesterday I had a chance to hear Erich's new, not yet available, high-end dual-concentric drivers (after doing some first-shot crossovers for them). There are 8 inch and 6.5 inch versions, both kickass speakers. They check out better than other concentrics I've measured (which aren't a huge number, but the ones I've played with, including some pricey-snooty-branded ones, mostly...just sucked).

The midrange on the little 6.5 incher is particularly surprising, one of the flattest midranges I've run across even in non-coaxial drivers. And the compression driver in it's center actually can go smoothly down to below where the woofer rolls off. Makes a very natural presentation (we even considered bumping up the tweeter to make it sound more "hi-fi"). The 8-incher has the same tweeter (I think) and of course goes lower and louder, while hanging together and sounding like one very good driver. A good "out of box" experience with both types, really.

I don't know when (or even if!) Erich will make these available. Apparently, they're pretty expensive to have made and would cost a lot to stock. Probably too much for general usage for surround duty, but maybe for high-budget systems.

**Edit: I should mention that I've never measured nor heard any of the Volt coaxials. I was just perusing that thread and see that mtg90 got that one quite flat. I'd like to get an impulse response of that one. mtg, can you supply an FRD for the measured system (or an IR plot)?
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post #457 of 588 Old 08-22-2014, 10:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bwaslo View Post
Yesterday I had a chance to hear Erich's new, not yet available, high-end dual-concentric drivers (after doing some first-shot crossovers for them). There are 8 inch and 6.5 inch versions, both kickass speakers. They check out better than other concentrics I've measured (which aren't a huge number, but the ones I've played with, including some pricey-snooty-branded ones, mostly...just sucked).

The midrange on the little 6.5 incher is particularly surprising, one of the flattest midranges I've run across even in non-coaxial drivers. And the compression driver in it's center actually can go smoothly down to below where the woofer rolls off. Makes a very natural presentation (we even considered bumping up the tweeter to make it sound more "hi-fi"). The 8-incher has the same tweeter (I think) and of course goes lower and louder, while hanging together and sounding like one very good driver. A good "out of box" experience with both types, really.

I don't know when (or even if!) Erich will make these available. Apparently, they're pretty expensive to have made and would cost a lot to stock. Probably too much for general usage for surround duty, but maybe for high-budget systems.
Very exciting. I'm looking for new surrounds and atmos Speakers to go with my seos15!
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post #458 of 588 Old 08-22-2014, 10:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bwaslo View Post
Yesterday I had a chance to hear Erich's new, not yet available, high-end dual-concentric drivers (after doing some first-shot crossovers for them). There are 8 inch and 6.5 inch versions, both kickass speakers. They check out better than other concentrics I've measured (which aren't a huge number, but the ones I've played with, including some pricey-snooty-branded ones, mostly...just sucked).

The midrange on the little 6.5 incher is particularly surprising, one of the flattest midranges I've run across even in non-coaxial drivers. And the compression driver in it's center actually can go smoothly down to below where the woofer rolls off. Makes a very natural presentation (we even considered bumping up the tweeter to make it sound more "hi-fi"). The 8-incher has the same tweeter (I think) and of course goes lower and louder, while hanging together and sounding like one very good driver. A good "out of box" experience with both types, really.

I don't know when (or even if!) Erich will make these available. Apparently, they're pretty expensive to have made and would cost a lot to stock. Probably too much for general usage for surround duty, but maybe for high-budget systems.

Erich, please please please do a run of 6.5 coax's!....lol I'll prepay upfront
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post #459 of 588 Old 08-22-2014, 11:09 AM
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Maretycool007: I am in desperate need of a new receiver as my old Yamaha RX-V663 is starting to become quirky


I haven't seen many posts for that unit still alive. As to how quircky it is only you know but consider these possibilities
I plan to use the multichannel inputs of the 663 from some of my X4000 preouts and find there are some interesting options for splitting preouts and adding extra speakers and yet have a good deal of control by being able to use controls from both or either amp and seeing what the Audyssey XT32 can for for "all of that"
The x4000 does 2 subs EQ. I let it run that for 1 sub and looked at the reults with REW and the Inuke setting that I had for just the SubMaximus. mighty fine
The other sub output splits and goes on one leg to the 663. the 663 sub out put goes to my PE buttshaker amp.
The other leg runs the signal to the other channels of the Inuke and that powers the 2 THTLP's I have wired up in a series/parallel config that lets me run both ,gently,,at 8 ohms, and still be able to apply (compromising) EQ via the inuke DSP because the 2 subs are no co-located. one is facing up in a corner at the front wall and the other is standing up behind the MLP. There is a surfeit of VLF.


AS the x4000 is not even 2 months old, jumping on the ATMOS train as a first adopter , no not yet, but I can run a signal thru the 663 and get sound out of the 4 overheads and have control to "contour" the "bubble". Immersive seems apt.
So, if your 663 still has a good amp section, and those are a good 90 watts, you may have some options.
For ATMOS, my pending choices ar the Yamaha 3040 or the Marantz 7702.
YMMV
TY for the "martyparty"

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post #460 of 588 Old 08-22-2014, 11:14 AM
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^^^^

Nice! I'd like to hear about what you think of that. My Onkyo only has DSX and PL2z (no NEO:X) and have thought about trying that if I install four overheads before I get an Atmos receiver.


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post #461 of 588 Old 08-22-2014, 12:26 PM
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I have been checking the Eminence 8" and 10" in the Volt's. It seems to me that the 8" would struggle to get to the default 80Hz crossover to the sub. Or am I missing something? 8" for the ceiling mounted speakers would be ideal, but I would get 10" if beneficial. Maybe combine 8" for ceiling and 10" for surround? Go sealed or vented?

I thought about buying JBLpro SCS 8 for surround and ceiling and save me some time [8 total] but at €513 each, this would mean get 4 now and the rest later. Marty suggested the Volt's instead. Indeed, the Volt's are so dirt cheap, I would make a handy saving, even with the extra cost for shipping and the VAT and duties. 8 Volts should fit (I hope) in the 56 lbs box that FedEx promotes, especially without the baffles. Rate for that to Belgium is $270. Hoping for assembled crossovers, 8 Volts à $160 = $1,280. That's $1,550 total. Change $ to € will take care of duties et voilà, it's only 4/10 of the JBL price. Meaning I could have all 8 up and running by the time the HT is scheduled to be working.

http://www.eminence.com/speakers/spe...model=Beta_8CX
http://www.eminence.com/speakers/spe...odel=Beta_10CX

Edit, I spoke to soon, the kits are 15 lbs, meaning only 4 in each flat pack when the baffle is left out. Still doable. Eminence is hard to find here. I even emailed Velleman, who are on the Eminence website, and they mailed back writing, "we can't help you", nothing more! Duuh!

There's another company named "Polyphonic" (good name), I will give them a try. They have the 10CX on the website, very promising!
http://www.polyphonic.be/pageproduit...eminence&id=16

Paging Erich: can you please sell me 8 kits sans baffles and woofers and ship them to Belgium? Crossover assembled?

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Last edited by erwinfrombelgium; 08-22-2014 at 12:50 PM.
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post #462 of 588 Old 08-22-2014, 07:55 PM
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Erwin. check your PM. Have you considered QSC pro. Cheaper than JBL by ALOT but you would have to contact a supplier in your area. check the website or call QSC. They sound great for the price.

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post #463 of 588 Old 08-23-2014, 01:43 AM
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These slanted QSC would be very good for traditional surrounds, placed above the listeners. Not so ideal for Atmos. Coaxial is my preference since they have good conical dispersion.

Been doing some cabinet sketches last night with the Volt V-10 for height and surround. I would make triangled shapes, "Toblerone" style (you know, the chocolate). Except the side surrounds, these would remain cubic 30*30*30 cm, maybe with an additional volume if ported.

Just bought a really cheap beamer. Leaves more money for audio...

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post #464 of 588 Old 08-23-2014, 12:48 PM
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update eminence 8" co-ax, an amateurs stab in the not so dark


At the site diyaudioandvideo.com they have (a LOT of) calculators, so as a noob attempt, from the usspeakers site I plugged in a few numbers for a sealed box.


box is .29 ft3^ but the f3 is only 127 hz . . .
back to the drawing board

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post #465 of 588 Old 08-23-2014, 01:06 PM
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one last time;
ported box .46 ft3^
port : 3" round by 5.26"
and a f3 of about 83
is that better (?) and usable for a ceiling wart





Dimensions
Vb = 0.46 ft3 = 13.11 lts
= L x W x H
f3 = 83.02 Hz
fb = 73.11 Hz
Dv = 3 in = 7.5 cm
Lv = 5.26 in = 12.84 cmof course this didn't include anything about the CD so presume I don't have much experience and little idea of what to know is applicable wrt ATMOS tops . . .

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post #466 of 588 Old 08-23-2014, 03:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by erwinfrombelgium View Post
I have been checking the Eminence 8" and 10" in the Volt's. It seems to me that the 8" would struggle to get to the default 80Hz crossover to the sub. Or am I missing something? 8" for the ceiling mounted speakers would be ideal, but I would get 10" if beneficial. Maybe combine 8" for ceiling and 10" for surround? Go sealed or vented?

I thought about buying JBLpro SCS 8 for surround and ceiling and save me some time [8 total] but at €513 each, this would mean get 4 now and the rest later. Marty suggested the Volt's instead. Indeed, the Volt's are so dirt cheap, I would make a handy saving, even with the extra cost for shipping and the VAT and duties. 8 Volts should fit (I hope) in the 56 lbs box that FedEx promotes, especially without the baffles. Rate for that to Belgium is $270. Hoping for assembled crossovers, 8 Volts à $160 = $1,280. That's $1,550 total. Change $ to € will take care of duties et voilà, it's only 4/10 of the JBL price. Meaning I could have all 8 up and running by the time the HT is scheduled to be working.

http://www.eminence.com/speakers/spe...model=Beta_8CX
http://www.eminence.com/speakers/spe...odel=Beta_10CX

Edit, I spoke to soon, the kits are 15 lbs, meaning only 4 in each flat pack when the baffle is left out. Still doable. Eminence is hard to find here. I even emailed Velleman, who are on the Eminence website, and they mailed back writing, "we can't help you", nothing more! Duuh!

There's another company named "Polyphonic" (good name), I will give them a try. They have the 10CX on the website, very promising!
http://www.polyphonic.be/pageproduit...eminence&id=16

Paging Erich: can you please sell me 8 kits sans baffles and woofers and ship them to Belgium? Crossover assembled?
Audyssey set my ported volt 8's in the slanted boxes at 40hz. They are wall mounted about 8 inches from the ceiling.

My rectangular ported volt 8's were always set at 60hz by Audyssey. I always adjusted each to 80hz.
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post #467 of 588 Old 08-23-2014, 05:10 PM
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Audyssey set my ported volt 8's in the slanted boxes at 40hz. They are wall mounted about 8 inches from the ceiling.

My rectangular ported volt 8's were always set at 60hz by Audyssey. I always adjusted each to 80hz.
Nice to know. Ported helps ofcourse and wall mounting definitely adds bass round the crossover point.

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post #468 of 588 Old 08-24-2014, 03:18 AM
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Erwin,
Are you thinking about 8" or 10" volts for sides and overheads or 10" volts for sides and 8" volts for overheads......or....?
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post #469 of 588 Old 08-24-2014, 05:14 AM
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Erwin,
Are you thinking about 8" or 10" volts for sides and overheads or 10" volts for sides and 8" volts for overheads......or....?
I am now thinking of Volt V-10 for all 4 Surrounds and 4 Overheads. Overheads: sealed (19 liter as in the kit), Surrounds: preferably ported, maybe sealed, as per recommendations of the experts.

In the triangle shapes that I am now considering, with 3 equal 60° angles, the 10" would not need more physical space vs the 8" since they use the same size magnet anyway. The 10" fits better in the 60° angle, if that makes sense. The 8" magnet would touch the sides of the cabinet unless it's so big that the 10" also fits. The Surrounds would be vertical, the Overheads horizontal mounted (hence the baffle points 30° down to MLP)

I do not know which of the two is the better woofer or has the best directivity pattern. Maybe someone can answer that, since I do not see it in the Eminence spec sheets.

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post #470 of 588 Old 08-24-2014, 10:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bwaslo View Post
Yesterday I had a chance to hear Erich's new, not yet available, high-end dual-concentric drivers (after doing some first-shot crossovers for them). There are 8 inch and 6.5 inch versions, both kickass speakers. They check out better than other concentrics I've measured (which aren't a huge number, but the ones I've played with, including some pricey-snooty-branded ones, mostly...just sucked).

The midrange on the little 6.5 incher is particularly surprising, one of the flattest midranges I've run across even in non-coaxial drivers. And the compression driver in it's center actually can go smoothly down to below where the woofer rolls off. Makes a very natural presentation (we even considered bumping up the tweeter to make it sound more "hi-fi"). The 8-incher has the same tweeter (I think) and of course goes lower and louder, while hanging together and sounding like one very good driver. A good "out of box" experience with both types, really.

I don't know when (or even if!) Erich will make these available. Apparently, they're pretty expensive to have made and would cost a lot to stock. Probably too much for general usage for surround duty, but maybe for high-budget systems.
Any idea on the price range? What's the dispersion degree?

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Last edited by pgwalsh; 08-24-2014 at 10:53 AM. Reason: More questions.
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post #471 of 588 Old 08-24-2014, 10:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bwaslo View Post
Yesterday I had a chance to hear Erich's new, not yet available, high-end dual-concentric drivers (after doing some first-shot crossovers for them). There are 8 inch and 6.5 inch versions, both kickass speakers. They check out better than other concentrics I've measured (which aren't a huge number, but the ones I've played with, including some pricey-snooty-branded ones, mostly...just sucked).

The midrange on the little 6.5 incher is particularly surprising, one of the flattest midranges I've run across even in non-coaxial drivers. And the compression driver in it's center actually can go smoothly down to below where the woofer rolls off. Makes a very natural presentation (we even considered bumping up the tweeter to make it sound more "hi-fi"). The 8-incher has the same tweeter (I think) and of course goes lower and louder, while hanging together and sounding like one very good driver. A good "out of box" experience with both types, really.

I don't know when (or even if!) Erich will make these available. Apparently, they're pretty expensive to have made and would cost a lot to stock. Probably too much for general usage for surround duty, but maybe for high-budget systems.
I don't know all of the DIYSG speakers, which speaker is that in the bottom right?
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post #472 of 588 Old 08-25-2014, 07:21 AM
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Originally Posted by erwinfrombelgium View Post
These slanted QSC would be very good for traditional surrounds, placed above the listeners. Not so ideal for Atmos. Coaxial is my preference since they have good conical dispersion.

Been doing some cabinet sketches last night with the Volt V-10 for height and surround. I would make triangled shapes, "Toblerone" style (you know, the chocolate). Except the side surrounds, these would remain cubic 30*30*30 cm, maybe with an additional volume if ported.

Just bought a really cheap beamer. Leaves more money for audio...
I just completed one of these type designs as a tester to see how I liked it. Bottom line, it creates a great form factor, and angles nicely in a narrow room.


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post #473 of 588 Old 08-25-2014, 09:52 AM
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^^
Ha! Yeah, that's it!

Is it okay to make the baffle larger than that of the standard kit?

Building a HT with 7.2.4 layout and ◤SEOS-24◥ LCR.
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post #474 of 588 Old 08-25-2014, 11:05 AM
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Originally Posted by beastaudio View Post
I just completed one of these type designs as a tester to see how I liked it. Bottom line, it creates a great form factor, and angles nicely in a narrow room.

That looks terrible, I can't believe you'd even consider putting that in your theater!


Can you build me two?
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post #475 of 588 Old 08-25-2014, 11:55 AM
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Originally Posted by pgwalsh View Post
I've become rather interested in this high end Coaxial design. I have 3 SEOS12/TD12M's up front and originally planned on using them for surrounds, but with Atmos this changes my thinking. From what I've read it makes more sense to have all speakers from the same camp, but that's not going to work for me so I figured at least all the surround speakers should be the same. Since the Atmos need wide dispersion pattern, a waveguide won't work. I'm going to have 2 leftover SEOS/TD12M's by the look of it, unless someone has a creative idea.

Erich - Any progress updates on this high end coaxial design? I'm not in a rush, but very curious. I think when you're ready I'd like to order a few.
Quote:
Originally Posted by erwinfrombelgium View Post
That becomes increasingly difficult as more listeners are present. I tried it in my design. Works fine for ear level WG, but near impossible for ceiling mounts. And then there's the baffle size. Coax's are just more compact.
I'm only talking about coaxes.

More listeners makes it harder for any speaker.

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Originally Posted by Martycool007 View Post
All this talk about Atmos, but, has any receiver manufacture actually commited to bringing this to their lineup any time soon?
FilmMixer received his Denon Atmos receiver a few days ago.

Noah
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post #476 of 588 Old 08-25-2014, 12:00 PM
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Dennon X 4100 7.2 with 9.2 processor the 5200 9.2 with 11.2 processor and the 7200 11.2 with 13.2 processor if I am not mistaken and the Marantz counter parts


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post #477 of 588 Old 08-25-2014, 01:32 PM
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Originally Posted by jbrown15 View Post
That looks terrible, I can't believe you'd even consider putting that in your theater!


Can you build me two?
Gonna be measuring out the beyma's in room this week at some point, and then any time you are ready homey

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post #478 of 588 Old 08-25-2014, 01:37 PM
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you get your finish issues worked out beast?


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post #479 of 588 Old 08-25-2014, 01:48 PM
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Haven't circled back to finishing again yet. Going to work a few test panels of this spalted birch and see how it goes...With different poly than last time.

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post #480 of 588 Old 08-25-2014, 05:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nuno C View Post
Pioneer, Denon , Marantz, Onkyo and Yamaha all have AVR with Atmos

Pioneer - http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/PU...a+Home+Theater

Denon - http://www.digitaltrends.com/home-th...s-denon-atmos/

Onkyo - http://dolbyatmos.onkyousa.com/

Marantz - http://www.gizmag.com/marantz-dolby-...eceiver/33400/

I would strongly suggest getting an AVR with HDMI 2.x and Atmos. That should tie you over for a good few years.

I see Yamaha are doing a Pioneer Firmware promise as well. I am a BIG Yammy fan and have been using them for the past decade.
Now I would totally jump on a 3050 that had Front+Rear Presence along with Atmos .4 height capabilities.
How does 11.2.4 sound?

That would require 17 Preouts and some serious DSP and YPAO room acoustic modifications but it would be totally worth it.

Not really a review but a good read - http://pocinc.net/blog/product-revie...el-4k-receiver
+1

Flagship Marantz 8802 won't be out until Winter 2015......

I'd suggest waiting until next generation.........I need 6 ceiling speakers. Hoping next year chips will be available for such configuration.........

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