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post #1 of 24 Old 02-01-2014, 11:46 AM - Thread Starter
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I want to do my first DIY speakers. However, I don't know where to start on their site at all. I don't know what the difference between each speaker is at all.

Like what's the difference between fusion, alchemy, and karma?
Also, I'd like to know what speakers / price level these would compare to to non diy speakers.
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post #2 of 24 Old 02-01-2014, 12:01 PM
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Give the info on what you have/want ?
Size of room , do you have subs , movies vs music , what spl level do you listen , etc. Diysoundgroup speakers would be 2-3 times the price but once you go cd and waveguide you won't go back to soft dome tweeter
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post #3 of 24 Old 02-01-2014, 12:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tential View Post

Like what's the difference between fusion, alchemy, and karma?


I think what they were shooting for is - all of the kits are very good. Decide what your budget is, and how big your speakers can be, and go from there.

Also, do you have subwoofer(s)? The models with bigger woofers will play lower, but you don't need that if you already have some subs.
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post #4 of 24 Old 02-01-2014, 12:49 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Rebel975 View Post

I think what they were shooting for is - all of the kits are very good. Decide what your budget is, and how big your speakers can be, and go from there.

Also, do you have subwoofer(s)? The models with bigger woofers will play lower, but you don't need that if you already have some subs.

Size of room is subject to change I won't be here for too long. But My main sitting area is no more than 10 feet from my HDTV at any given time.
Movies/Music - I'd say it's 60/40. I do a lot of gaming as well I guess.
Subwoofer - I have a Klipsch RW-12D. I also am planning on building a sub too eventually to replace it since it's small. I think I want new speakers first though.
SPL - I listen pretty loud and I like the ability to throw parties. This is what makes me look at the louder/larger speakers for a party but not sure if that works. But right now I'm just looking for main fronts. I can move them to surrounds later and buy 2 larger speakers if I really want louder/ability to play lower.

Also would like to know the difference between these speakers and the Polk Monitor 70s which is what I have now.

I know all the kits are pretty good, but I want to know the difference. I want to know what I'm getting if I upgrade for example from a 125 Karma 8 to a 223 Alpha 8.
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Alpha 8: A higher cost woofer, which most likely means lower distortion. The 8PS21 mentions having a shorting ring, while the TD0818 does not.

.5dB higher sensitivity, 15Hz more extension, and higher power handling. Theoretically a "better" compression driver (DNA-205 vs DNA-150) loaded in a probably "better" waveguide (EOS-8 vs DW-7745)*.


*Someone else would have to explain the compression driver + waveguide differences.
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post #6 of 24 Old 02-01-2014, 02:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tential View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rebel975 View Post

I think what they were shooting for is - all of the kits are very good. Decide what your budget is, and how big your speakers can be, and go from there.

Also, do you have subwoofer(s)? The models with bigger woofers will play lower, but you don't need that if you already have some subs.

Size of room is subject to change I won't be here for too long. But My main sitting area is no more than 10 feet from my HDTV at any given time.
Movies/Music - I'd say it's 60/40. I do a lot of gaming as well I guess.
Subwoofer - I have a Klipsch RW-12D. I also am planning on building a sub too eventually to replace it since it's small. I think I want new speakers first though.
SPL - I listen pretty loud and I like the ability to throw parties. This is what makes me look at the louder/larger speakers for a party but not sure if that works. But right now I'm just looking for main fronts. I can move them to surrounds later and buy 2 larger speakers if I really want louder/ability to play lower.

Also would like to know the difference between these speakers and the Polk Monitor 70s which is what I have now.

I know all the kits are pretty good, but I want to know the difference. I want to know what I'm getting if I upgrade for example from a 125 Karma 8 to a 223 Alpha 8.

Sounds to me like you want the tempests for fronts. They are the perfect party rock speakers and for movies ad well. Will play down to 40hz and help that weak sub until you build something . For rears the fusion alchemy would be great.

I have both the alchemy mtm and the minions. Both are great with a slight edge to the fusion to me.

Compared to the polks you will be amazed. They will play much louder , cleaner , with a lot more dynamics and bigger soundstage. You will be shocked. Make sure you angle them in 45° to get the best results.
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post #7 of 24 Old 02-01-2014, 02:49 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rebel975 View Post

Alpha 8: A higher cost woofer, which most likely means lower distortion. The 8PS21 mentions having a shorting ring, while the TD0818 does not.

.5dB higher sensitivity, 15Hz more extension, and higher power handling. Theoretically a "better" compression driver (DNA-205 vs DNA-150) loaded in a probably "better" waveguide (EOS-8 vs DW-7745)*.


*Someone else would have to explain the compression driver + waveguide differences.

Lol....

See this is the kind of thing I wish they'd list on the site. It's more catered to people who know what they're doing, noobs like myself really don't know what is going on at all.
Would be nice if they had a nice noob friendly kit to start.
I'm leaning towards the Fusion 8 now since it has the option of a crossover preassembled. However, still want to know, how do these compare to my Monitor 70s, and what price range would these speakers be in if it were retail? I have been saving up cash for the Klipsch RF 7s, but if I can get that quality from DIY for 300-400 then I might just step up to that price range and get that instead.
Otherwise, I'll just the Fusion 8s, but I wanna know what they compare to retail price wise so I know if what I'm saving is worth it by going the DIY route.

Really curious about comparisons to new speakers retail prices though. I just read some more online and saw Jeff B talking about the Tempest and he compared it to Klipsch the same way jumping up from a calculator to a PC. That sounds great, and for 300(maybe 400 once I count in the flatpack and the crossover pre assembled) that'd leave me under 1k for both. If I could get better than RF-7 performance for under 800 that'd rock. I been looking at the polk audio RTi12 and 10s as well but DIY looks like I'll save money and get better performance.

Also, the Fusion MTM center channel. If I went with something like the Tempest, would that center channel still work or would I need another tempest for my center channel? How in gods name do you find a place to put the center channel, especially one that big. Biggest reason I don't have one yet is I don't know where to put it lol.....
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Originally Posted by chalugadp View Post

Sounds to me like you want the tempests for fronts. They are the perfect party rock speakers and for movies ad well. Will play down to 40hz and help that weak sub until you build something . For rears the fusion alchemy would be great.

I have both the alchemy mtm and the minions. Both are great with a slight edge to the fusion to me.

Compared to the polks you will be amazed. They will play much louder , cleaner , with a lot more dynamics and bigger soundstage. You will be shocked. Make sure you angle them in 45° to get the best results.
Edit:
Ha ya the Tempests look nice. Especially what I just read about them and now from you as well. If we're going off pure wants then I want the Fusion 15s lol but that's overkill probably. There seems to be only 1 MTM center channel though. Is that center channel suitable with every group of fronts? Really though, I just want RF-7 type performance and clearer highs than what I have now. If I can get that with the Fusion 8s that's great but if I need something like the tempests, I'll save up and get them. Might get the 8s purely for the building experience and to test my cabinet finishing ability. I wanted red/gloss but I'd rather fail on the 8s and then paint over it (with that black whatever paint) rather than do it on the tempests.
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post #8 of 24 Old 02-01-2014, 03:36 PM
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There's nothing wrong with being a noob. What I say to newcomers is educate yourself. Take a couple of hours and read the last 500 posts from here
http://www.avsforum.com/t/1291022/hey-guys-we-need-a-little-rallying-here/9050_50#post_24286252

Do some legwork and become familiar with the product and several people's opinions. Virtually no one who has built a pair of waveguide speakers has regretted it. Read , then order a pair of fusion alchemy or minions. You will love them. You will be hooked , and go from there. cool.gif
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post #9 of 24 Old 02-01-2014, 04:05 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by chalugadp View Post

There's nothing wrong with being a noob. What I say to newcomers is educate yourself. Take a couple of hours and read the last 500 posts from here
http://www.avsforum.com/t/1291022/hey-guys-we-need-a-little-rallying-here/9050_50#post_24286252

Do some legwork and become familiar with the product and several people's opinions. Virtually no one who has built a pair of waveguide speakers has regretted it. Read , then order a pair of fusion alchemy or minions. You will love them. You will be hooked , and go from there. cool.gif


I think I've read some of it before but I'll read it all again as much as possible.
I already was just reading a bit though and people who had the tempest said they needed 3 of them for their front stage and that the MTM didn't work (well didn't say that but implied it I guess indirectly). Said the Fusion 8 would be better with the MTM center.
I think after just the couple posts I've read the Fusion 8 is the smart choice but I REALLY wanted a center channel and I know full well if I get the fusion 8s and the MTM as well, I'll want to upgrade to the Tempests and be upset as to what I can do with that center channel. And upset that I'll need a Tempest as my center channel I'd prefer an MTM there.
Edit: Just saw a pic of the Fusion 8s.... they look so tiny compared to my Polk Towers. The Fusion 8s were pictured next to the Tempests which just looked massive. If they're better than my Monitor 80s the way everyone is saying then I guess I'll just have to bite the bullet and see how it sounds but it's hard for me to believe that such a small little bookshelf looking speaker is so popular.

I still didn't see this question answered though, what price range speakers would the Fusion 8s and the Tempests be going up against? It almost sounds like from what I'm reading that people prefer these vs any other speakers you can purchase online/in store.
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post #10 of 24 Old 02-01-2014, 04:48 PM
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Matching center channel speakers are always gonna be a b1tch if you're committed to a sideways MTM, and if matching is a priority - most mains don't have a matching center to go with them. Are you going that way because that's what will fit under your TV? Or is it that you prefer the looks or think they are better for some other reason?

Don't worry about the size of the Fusion 8s, looks are deceiving. Any of the DIY Sound Group waveguide kits will shock you with the sheer amount of clean clear sound they are capable of putting out. Your sub will immediately become the limiting factor in your setup. You have to remember, these speakers are designed around technology intended for the brutal needs of pro sound reinforcement - they've just been refined with modern waveguides and thoughtful, intelligent crossover design based on real measurements that brings out their full potential in a home environment.

It's hard to put them up against retail speakers because there's almost nothing like them at any price.

edit: MTG90 designed both the small 8" version Karma and Alpha speakers (among others) and was kind enough to post youtube videos. These are the same size as the Fusion 8s.

Karma 8: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jkDki019l4U
Alpha 8: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oQir0ZsjnPs

Watch until you see the camera zoom out and think about how you're hearing them from what looks like >100 ft away eek.gif


(edited first sentence to be clearer)
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post #11 of 24 Old 02-01-2014, 05:08 PM
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Center channel speakers are always gonna be a b1tch if you're committed to a sideways MTM - are you going that way because that's what will fit under your TV? Or is it that you prefer the looks or think they are better for some other reason?

Don't worry about the size of the Fusion 8s, looks are deceiving. Any of the DIY Sound Group waveguide kits will shock you with the sheer amount of clean clear sound they are capable of putting out. Your sub will immediately become the limiting factor in your setup. You have to remember, these speakers are designed around technology intended for the brutal needs of pro sound reinforcement - they've just been refined with modern waveguides and thoughtful, intelligent crossover design based on real measurements that brings out their full potential in a home environment.

It's hard to put them up against retail speakers because there's almost nothing like them at any price.

edit: MTG90 designed both the small 8" version Karma and Alpha speakers (among others) and was kind enough to post youtube videos. These are the same size as the Fusion 8s.

Karma 8: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jkDki019l4U
Alpha 8: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oQir0ZsjnPs

Watch until you see the camera zoom out and think about how you're hearing them from what looks like >100 ft away eek.gif

Are you saying that the Fusion 8 MTM is not a good center? I am hoping to order 3 of these early next week to make up my front stage. The center will be sitting horizontal while the L & R will be on small stands vertically. I am very excited to jump into these. I have heard nothing but good things about them.
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post #12 of 24 Old 02-01-2014, 05:10 PM
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The tempest works just fine with the alchemy mtm as a horizontal center. I have the mtm and its sounds great across a 8-9 foot range so unless you have six people seating you will be fine. I even listened to a movie on the ground at a 30 degree angle (was petting the dog) and sound was good.

You can't compare diysoundgroup to regular commercial speakers . There totally different . Comparing the tempest to say the jtr single 8 which its probably slightly better. Single 8 is twice the price. The noessis 228 is three times the price and the tempest many say is 80-90% as good.

The polk speaker you have sounds good up to around 90-95 db. The alchemy , tempests , and tempest sound great up to 105-110dbs.
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post #13 of 24 Old 02-01-2014, 05:29 PM
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Are you saying that the Fusion 8 MTM is not a good center? I am hoping to order 3 of these early next week to make up my front stage. The center will be sitting horizontal while the L & R will be on small stands vertically. I am very excited to jump into these. I have heard nothing but good things about them.

Not saying that at all, it's just that you seem to partly want to go for the Tempests but mentioned you didn't want 3 Tempests up front, and were worried things wouldn't match etc. Just wondering if there was a particular reason smile.gif
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post #14 of 24 Old 02-01-2014, 05:47 PM
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Originally Posted by antisuck View Post

Not saying that at all, it's just that you seem to partly want to go for the Tempests but mentioned you didn't want 3 Tempests up front, and were worried things wouldn't match etc. Just wondering if there was a particular reason smile.gif

Oh I am not the original poster, I was just reading through the thread and saw your mention of using an MTM as a center being a pain so I go a little worried. As one of the other members here knows i am a little hesitant to pull the trigger but I know am want to. I will be running 3 Fusion 8 MTM across the fronts though.
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post #15 of 24 Old 02-01-2014, 05:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by antisuck View Post

Not saying that at all, it's just that you seem to partly want to go for the Tempests but mentioned you didn't want 3 Tempests up front, and were worried things wouldn't match etc. Just wondering if there was a particular reason smile.gif

Oh I am not the original poster, I was just reading through the thread and saw your mention of using an MTM as a center being a pain so I go a little worried. As one of the other members here knows i am a little hesitant to pull the trigger but I know am want to. I will be running 3 Fusion 8 MTM across the fronts though.

Oops, sorry for the mistaken identity.

I should edit my post - my point was more about matching centers and mains, since lots of folks consider that the ideal and tential had mentioned concerns that if he upgraded to Tempests at some point he'd be bummed that the center no longer matched. 3 Tempests would certainly rock for someone with the space, but a trio of Fusion 8 MTM ought to rock pretty hard too biggrin.gif

And chaluga (and others, probably) are mixing and matching to good rockin' effect as well.
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post #16 of 24 Old 02-01-2014, 06:00 PM
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Awesome I too was worried about the front stage not matching. Specially since I keep hearing about speakers having to be timber matched and all that. From what I can see you cannot go wrong with any of the sets from diygroup
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post #17 of 24 Old 02-01-2014, 06:17 PM
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I have watched about a dozen movies with minions mixed with fusion alchemy mtm for lcr and I can't hear a difference in timbre. They have the same cd and I have eq them to sound similar . For music I can hear a difference .
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post #18 of 24 Old 02-02-2014, 09:41 AM
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Running a phantom center is an easy and cheap place to start. You can always build a center channel later....maybe the center channel you want hasn't been designed yet. wink.gif
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post #19 of 24 Old 02-02-2014, 01:16 PM - Thread Starter
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Ya my issue is aesthetics and I really don't want 3 bookshelf looking speakers across the front. I already REALLY wanted floorstanding models but it doesn't seem like that's happening anytime soon. The Quad 4 doesn't look like it's what I really need anyway either.

Seems I got a few choices.
Fusion 8s + MTM
2 Tempests and wait for a center channel that matches
2 Fusion 8s and wait for a center channel that matches the tempests before I make those.

Gotta make a decision soon I guess.
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post #20 of 24 Old 02-02-2014, 01:44 PM
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Quote:
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Ya my issue is aesthetics and I really don't want 3 bookshelf looking speakers across the front. I already REALLY wanted floorstanding models but it doesn't seem like that's happening anytime soon. The Quad 4 doesn't look like it's what I really need anyway either.

Seems I got a few choices.
Fusion 8s + MTM
2 Tempests and wait for a center channel that matches
2 Fusion 8s and wait for a center channel that matches the tempests before I make those.

Gotta make a decision soon I guess.

Seems like you have an easy path. Build the tempests into floorstanders. Then get the alchemy mtm. Remember the alchemy is the tempest little brother. Same designer. The voices through the center channel (which is 80% of what the cc does) may not be a perfect match but I highly doubt you could tell the difference for movies. I see wanting to have exact lcr for 5 channel music but for movies not as critical .
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post #21 of 24 Old 02-02-2014, 04:55 PM
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I built two tempests into towers and have an alchemy single 8 as center. Sounds fantastic and timbre is seamless. All powered by a denon 4311 to reference without issue. Bass from tempests are amazing.

Denon 4311ci with Mini DSP and antimode
L/R -DIYSOUND tempest towers (40" tall towers)
C - DIYSOUND alchemy 8
LS/RS - community D6

MACHTSUB SYSTEM
2-Stereo Integrity HST-18 D1 subs (happy dance) in dual 12 cuft ported tuned 16hz
Sub amp- inuke 12000dsp (byopc) bring your own power cord
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post #22 of 24 Old 02-02-2014, 05:45 PM
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I built two tempests into towers and have an alchemy single 8 as center. Sounds fantastic and timbre is seamless. All powered by a denon 4311 to reference without issue. Bass from tempests are amazing.

^^^ listen to that dude tongue.gif
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post #23 of 24 Old 02-03-2014, 11:32 AM - Thread Starter
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Seems like you have an easy path. Build the tempests into floorstanders. Then get the alchemy mtm. Remember the alchemy is the tempest little brother. Same designer. The voices through the center channel (which is 80% of what the cc does) may not be a perfect match but I highly doubt you could tell the difference for movies. I see wanting to have exact lcr for 5 channel music but for movies not as critical .

Ya for Music I want it really badly but I get it it's not that big of a deal I guess.

I'd LIKE to build the tempests into floorstanders, but I've decided to just get the flatpack straight from Eric. I don't have any woodworking tools and I don't have a place like a shed/workroom to work in anyway. So it looks like I don't have an option but to use the Tempests as bookshelves. I think after I finish them though I just won't care and will enjoy it for what it is. Going to just bite the bullet probably and just order something this week. Would be nice to finish something before I visit college so I can take them with me.
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post #24 of 24 Old 02-03-2014, 11:46 AM
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Ya for Music I want it really badly but I get it it's not that big of a deal I guess.

I'd LIKE to build the tempests into floorstanders, but I've decided to just get the flatpack straight from Eric. I don't have any woodworking tools and I don't have a place like a shed/workroom to work in anyway. So it looks like I don't have an option but to use the Tempests as bookshelves. I think after I finish them though I just won't care and will enjoy it for what it is. Going to just bite the bullet probably and just order something this week. Would be nice to finish something before I visit college so I can take them with me.

You will not be disapointed in the sound. They really are awesome speakers at a killer price in a "anyone can do it" kit!

Denon 4311ci with Mini DSP and antimode
L/R -DIYSOUND tempest towers (40" tall towers)
C - DIYSOUND alchemy 8
LS/RS - community D6

MACHTSUB SYSTEM
2-Stereo Integrity HST-18 D1 subs (happy dance) in dual 12 cuft ported tuned 16hz
Sub amp- inuke 12000dsp (byopc) bring your own power cord
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