8x 18" LMS 5400 Ultras Sealed to 27 Cube 15hz Ported Build - Page 13 - AVS Forum
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post #361 of 512 Old 04-11-2014, 11:08 PM
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I have been researching / downloading the software for Dolby Lake so I can eventually program the EQ on the LG PLM10000Q I ordered.

I plan to use REW and figure out a response curve and subsequent correction curve once I get my subs built. Then I can punch in the correction into EQ manually and then re-run REW and adjust accordingly. Ideally, once everything is setup correctly, I won't need to mess with the PLM's EQ settings ever again. Any AVR or other processor with room correction will really not need to adjust the bass frequency range much at that point.

Is it best practice to EQ all the subs together in mono mode or is it possible to reach a flatter curve by EQ'ing each subwoofer separately and running multiple permutations?

LG's amps seem to have optimum performance (per their description) in the 2-4ohm region.

For 2+2 ohm voice coils and 2 drivers per box/channel, what wiring would you guys recommend with this amp? Should I simply go for 8ohms? Is it better to go 2 ohm and put in an in-line serial resistor (1ohm) in order to hit 3 ohms? Any specific ideas would be helpful...

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post #362 of 512 Old 04-12-2014, 12:14 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blazar View Post

I have been researching / downloading the software for Dolby Lake so I can eventually program the EQ on the LG PLM10000Q I ordered.

I plan to use REW and figure out a response curve and subsequent correction curve once I get my subs built. Then I can punch in the correction into EQ manually and then re-run REW and adjust accordingly. Ideally, once everything is setup correctly, I won't need to mess with the PLM's EQ settings ever again. Any AVR or other processor with room correction will really not need to adjust the bass frequency range much at that point.

Is it best practice to EQ all the subs together in mono mode or is it possible to reach a flatter curve by EQ'ing each subwoofer separately and running multiple permutations?

LG's amps seem to have optimum performance (per their description) in the 2-4ohm region.

For 2+2 ohm voice coils and 2 drivers per box/channel, what wiring would you guys recommend with this amp? Should I simply go for 8ohms? Is it better to go 2 ohm and put in an in-line serial resistor (1ohm) in order to hit 3 ohms? Any specific ideas would be helpful...

eq subs in mono, then run room correction. It does more than just adjust EQ if you have something snazzy like XT32 or dirac. I run my subs in mono anyway, but eqing in mono prevents phase issues.


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post #363 of 512 Old 04-12-2014, 03:00 AM
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not...is your suggestion above to apply one one EQ to all subs at same time and not per sub prior to something like XT32??


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post #364 of 512 Old 04-12-2014, 03:06 AM
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Originally Posted by notnyt View Post


eq subs in mono, then run room correction. It does more than just adjust EQ if you have something snazzy like XT32 or dirac. I run my subs in mono anyway, but eqing in mono prevents phase issues.

I always hear that sub bass contains spatial info that expands the sound stage so I always thought it was best to run them in stereo.  I guess it would maximize output because if a bass signal is stronger in one channel, then that channel would work harder.  I'll try what you suggest.

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post #365 of 512 Old 04-12-2014, 12:33 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blah450 View Post

not...is your suggestion above to apply one one EQ to all subs at same time and not per sub prior to something like XT32??

Yes. I have the settings in minidsp cloned for each input channel.


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post #366 of 512 Old 04-12-2014, 10:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blazar View Post

I have been researching / downloading the software for Dolby Lake so I can eventually program the EQ on the LG PLM10000Q I ordered.

I plan to use REW and figure out a response curve and subsequent correction curve once I get my subs built. Then I can punch in the correction into EQ manually and then re-run REW and adjust accordingly. Ideally, once everything is setup correctly, I won't need to mess with the PLM's EQ settings ever again. Any AVR or other processor with room correction will really not need to adjust the bass frequency range much at that point.

Is it best practice to EQ all the subs together in mono mode or is it possible to reach a flatter curve by EQ'ing each subwoofer separately and running multiple permutations?

LG's amps seem to have optimum performance (per their description) in the 2-4ohm region.

For 2+2 ohm voice coils and 2 drivers per box/channel, what wiring would you guys recommend with this amp? Should I simply go for 8ohms? Is it better to go 2 ohm and put in an in-line serial resistor (1ohm) in order to hit 3 ohms? Any specific ideas would be helpful...

Wiring them to the lowest resistence the amp is rated to handle to maximize power is my suggestion. Maybe someone more familir with the amps limitations will chime in.

Here's a handy link about wiring and calculating ohms

http://www.bcae1.com/spkrmlti.htm

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post #367 of 512 Old 04-13-2014, 03:04 AM
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Originally Posted by blazar View Post


LG's amps seem to have optimum performance (per their description) in the 2-4ohm region.
If you are speaking of the real LG amps then I would say you are pretty much hitting the mark. If you are talking the clones, then throw all that out the window, they are not the same amps.


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post #368 of 512 Old 04-13-2014, 10:43 AM
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If you are speaking of the real LG amps then I would say you are pretty much hitting the mark. If you are talking the clones, then throw all that out the window, they are not the same amps.

Yeah the real LG...

My research on their stuff seems to indicate that 2-4ohm gives you maximum wattage available from the amplifier at around 2200 watts RMS but in this config it has a much higher likelihood of drawing too much current out of my 20 amp circuit OR overdriving the speakers (which only need 1600watts RMS).

If i run at 8ohm load, the RMS wattage is 1300 (less than the speaker's max) but auto-protects against speaker damage and tripping a breaker (unless I add a 30amp breaker).

I think going with a 30amp outlet/breaker and driving a 2ohm load is basically overkill considering I'll have 8 15" drivers which will easily blow this room away. I can't do a bass competition anyway without causing the neighbors to hit me with pitchforks anway...

My goal is really clean, distortion free, effortless bass with a great in-room response that can be adjusted as needed.

It turns out that Lake software on the LG PLM series will actually connect to a couple of types of RTA software (unfortunately not REW) and will allow you to easily dial in very accurate and narrow filters in order to adjust room response. I am seriously considering dropping some dough on a real piece of software to make the most of the LG PLM 10000Q's capabilities.

Seriously their PLM line looks VERY slick after looking at the tutorial videos. Anyone that wants a premium product: Lab Gruppen is as impressive as it gets! Likely overkill for non-subwoofer applicaions since it would be redundant features to many AVR's. For subwoofers it is like having mini-DSP built-in minus the microphone/RTA software. Mini-dsp is definitely more cost effective but the LG offering is extremely compelling.

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post #369 of 512 Old 04-13-2014, 11:50 AM
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If you are speaking of the real LG amps then I would say you are pretty much hitting the mark. If you are talking the clones, then throw all that out the window, they are not the same amps.
Curious what the clones lack that the originals have? Not trying to start an argument just curious as there is a big price diff. Build quality? Performance? Reliability? Warranty differences?

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post #370 of 512 Old 04-13-2014, 11:54 AM
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Originally Posted by blazar View Post

For subwoofers it is like having mini-DSP built-in minus the microphone/RTA software. Mini-dsp is definitely more cost effective but the LG offering is extremely compelling.

while the LG is no doubt da bomb (i'd like to have one! biggrin.gif), a $130 new DSP unit plus an amp or two with equitable power/channels versus a $4000 used DSP and amp??...that's one heck of a leap above "cost effective", yes? . eek.gif
Considering the cost of the LG (even used), it's performance had better be compelling!wink.gif


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post #371 of 512 Old 04-13-2014, 12:59 PM
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But i would bet resale value on a used LG is quite good too... If its anything less than stellar i can get my whole investment back.

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post #372 of 512 Old 04-13-2014, 06:17 PM
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Guys around here and in the pro audio world are always looking to save a bit on some nice used gear. You'll have no problem getting a good portion back of what you paid if need be.

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post #373 of 512 Old 04-13-2014, 07:31 PM
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Curious what the clones lack that the originals have? Not trying to start an argument just curious as there is a big price diff. Build quality? Performance? Reliability? Warranty differences?
Build quality, parts quality and I am betting the out put is cleaner with less distortion. I know the LG can use 2ohm where as the Clones cannot, that was the reason why I posted that comment in the first place. That in itself suggests that there is a lot missing from the clones and would reflect on reliability with the ones that worked out of the box. I say that b/c, some people were getting amps that did not work from the get go.

I have 2 x 14000 Clones I originally bought (Don't use them now, they are just sitting in storage), but I ended up with 3 x real FP 10000Q's and they seem to put out a better sound to my ears. I originally went with one, but so impressed I switched all the amps powering the subs to the real ones.
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post #374 of 512 Old 04-13-2014, 09:57 PM
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Build quality, parts quality and I am betting the out put is cleaner with less distortion. I know the LG can use 2ohm where as the Clones cannot, that was the reason why I posted that comment in the first place. That in itself suggests that there is a lot missing from the clones and would reflect on reliability with the ones that worked out of the box. I say that b/c, some people were getting amps that did not work from the get go.

I have 2 x 14000 Clones I originally bought (Don't use them now, they are just sitting in storage), but I ended up with 3 x real FP 10000Q's and they seem to put out a better sound to my ears. I originally went with one, but so impressed I switched all the amps powering the subs to the real ones.
Thanks JapanDave. Awesome to have 3 of those bad boys! really like this type of testimony since you owned both and could compare and become familiar with each. Lotta money for the 10000Q but with a system like yours I'd have done the same considering the other top end components of the system and your treated room to let them really shine. Good piece of mind having the real deal especially after living with both. On the flip side the clone appears to be a good value option for those on an entirely different budget, wether that's overall or to put the savings towards a better projector or speakers/subs. I really get leary hearing about dead units as I would be worrying at times if it's gunna go poof right when everyone's over to watch the new movie or whatever.
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post #375 of 512 Old 04-13-2014, 10:13 PM
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@JapanDave,

How much & where did you bought your genuine LG FP10000Q amps?
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post #376 of 512 Old 04-14-2014, 01:14 AM
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Thanks JapanDave. Awesome to have 3 of those bad boys! really like this type of testimony since you owned both and could compare and become familiar with each. Lotta money for the 10000Q but with a system like yours I'd have done the same considering the other top end components of the system and your treated room to let them really shine. Good piece of mind having the real deal especially after living with both. On the flip side the clone appears to be a good value option for those on an entirely different budget, wether that's overall or to put the savings towards a better projector or speakers/subs. I really get leary hearing about dead units as I would be worrying at times if it's gunna go poof right when everyone's over to watch the new movie or whatever.
Definitely good value and I am not suggesting that they should not be used, (I know that you are not suggesting that I did, I just wanted to clarify myself) more so that they can't be compared with the real ones as I explained above. I think for most people they will serve their purpose well. But, also was concerned about pushing the amps and have them crap out on me mid movie. But , that being said , a lot of guys seem to be pushing them hard and they are taking it, just the luck of the draw I guess.
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@JapanDave,

How much & where did you bought your genuine LG FP10000Q amps?
I bought them from a dealer here in Japan for about $6,500 a piece.
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post #377 of 512 Old 04-14-2014, 01:31 PM
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I want to test LG on my avantgarde duo omega when it comes in to see how much hiss they have. If they LG sounds great on all my avantgarde with sensitivity of 105db... Then thy should sound good on any speaker. The crown XLS has way too much ambient hiss to work well.

Lab gruppen's with dsp built in may have various practical purposes and LG sells other amps that are 1u rack space or 2u with 4 channels. I'll get some objective and subjective results once I get it in this week.

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post #378 of 512 Old 04-14-2014, 02:42 PM
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The crown XLS has way too much ambient hiss to work well.
 

The new XLS amps are garbage.  The older ones (XLS802D, XLS602D ect) with he heavy transformers have amazing sound quality.

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post #379 of 512 Old 04-14-2014, 02:55 PM
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I would suggest that both the real LabGruppen, and the clones, both offer solid value in most all cases.

I've experienced tons of real LGs in the pro world, and actually some in HT circles as well. The amplifiers of choice for one of the finest systems I've ever had the pleasure to experience, was a big full rack of LGs (custom xtx ribbon/magnet-forward cone midrange, line-arrays... supported by maybe 10 or so sealed subs ... this was at Cedia, in a nice room adjacent to the show in a Westin).

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I'd rather have multiples of other amps such as the peavey cs4000 & 4080's than pay to have one amp with a ton of power.  Long after the warranty is over multiples represent excellent reliability and less risk of being out of commission if one fails.

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Unless, of course, Spin, there are those with the means to buy multiple LGs, eh?
I would not be in that camp...eek.gif


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Unless, of course, Spin, there are those with the means to buy multiple LGs, eh?
I would not be in that camp...eek.gif

I'd like to be adopted by such people.

 

As far as SQ, I find AB output stages are cleaner and I only buy heavy amps with huge transformers.  I'll take 6 CS4000's over one FP14000.  To each his own.

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post #383 of 512 Old 04-14-2014, 09:20 PM
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So........how bout them ported subs? They still bangin? Any plans to add some twomp four's into the mix?

My dual sealed LMS 5400 Ultra build

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post #384 of 512 Old 04-14-2014, 09:38 PM - Thread Starter
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subs are awesome, not much to say there that hasn't been said. Sold my sealed boxes to a local from the forum, going to try to get him setup when some decent 18s become avail..


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post #385 of 512 Old 04-14-2014, 09:52 PM
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^^^just trying to get the thread back on track.....I know how stoked you are.

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post #386 of 512 Old 04-14-2014, 10:02 PM - Thread Starter
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^^^just trying to get the thread back on track.....I know how stoked you are.

Hah, Lot of amusing opinions on amps being tossed around. rolleyes.gif


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post #387 of 512 Old 04-14-2014, 11:22 PM
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Originally Posted by WereWolf84 View Post
@JapanDave,
How much & where did you bought your genuine LG FP10000Q amps?I bought them from a dealer here in Japan for about $6,500 a piece.
@JapanDave, are the genuine LG amps dead silent as compare to the clone?
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post #388 of 512 Old 04-14-2014, 11:54 PM - Thread Starter
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@JapanDave, are the genuine LG amps dead silent as compare to the clone?

Note, he's comparing two different amp models. The FP14000 output stages are not the same as the FP10000Q output stages. Maybe you should you know, post this in the LG thread wink.gif

I don't have any hiss from my FP14000 clones. A proper signal chain goes a long way.

Running mains off either of these in a home environment is so far into overkill its silly. Even by my standards.

EDIT: maybe not completely overkill... but the amps make more noise from the fans.... I guess if you had them hidden in a closet.
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post #389 of 512 Old 04-15-2014, 02:06 AM
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Note, he's comparing two different amp models. The FP14000 output stages are not the same as the FP10000Q output stages. Maybe you should you know, post this in the LG thread wink.gif

I don't have any hiss from my FP14000 clones. A proper signal chain goes a long way.

Running mains off either of these in a home environment is so far into overkill its silly. Even by my standards.

EDIT: maybe not completely overkill... but the amps make more noise from the fans.... I guess if you had them hidden in a closet.
Yup, I'm refer to fan noise, not hiss noise biggrin.gif
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post #390 of 512 Old 04-15-2014, 02:29 AM - Thread Starter
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Yup, I'm refer to fan noise, not hiss noise biggrin.gif

Why would they be dead silent? These are pro amps, cooling is very important.
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