Inuke vs. CV 5000 - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 141 Old 02-11-2014, 04:39 PM - Thread Starter
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I am now using an inuke 3000dsp to power 2 subs in the back of my room and have the CV 5000 powering the other 6 in the front of my room. I was considering selling the CV 5000 and buying the inuke 6000dsp. I figured I'd have less chance of tripping a breaker (very rare as is, but still it would be nice to never trip it) and I love the dynamic eq function on the inuke dsp. Plus, at the price the inukes are at right now I could actually make money on the whole thing.

Running an inuke 6000 on my up front 6 subs would be = to running an inuke 3000 in bridge mode on 3 of my subs, at least that's how I understand it.

I have the SI 18 D4's so in both configurations (CV 5000 and inuke 3000) the amp would get a 3 ohm load since there is 3 drivers.


Ok, so today I level matched the inuke 3000dsp and CV using frequency sweeps and matching them up. I made sure to use the same 3 subs for both sweeps and for the comparison. I wanted to see which amp would clip first.

I used the song Bass I Love You since it has strong output at 17hz on the long extended note and also that single single digit hit.

Anyway, with 3 of the subs running on the CV I got the MV up to 8.5 over reference with the sub trim pretty hot. At 9 over reference on the MV the clip light would blink on the quick hitting note below 10hz.

I tried the same thing on the inuke. For both of these tests I was in the room where my amps are and it was like a jet engine was taking off with how loud the inukes fan was getting. Again I inched up the volume until I saw the first red blinking. I came back out to the HT room and the MV was at 7 over reference.

I went back and forth 2 more times with each amp to make sure I got it right, and I got the same results. The inuke clip light blinked 2 db's before the CV every time.

So, I guess I'll hang on to the CV. 2 db's isn't a ton but my test was just on 3 of the 6 up front subs so I would actually lose 4 db's right? No good.


I should be getting 900 ish watts from the CV since there are now only 3 drivers instead of 4 per channel (3 ohm load, the CV puts out 2500 per channel in 2 ohms) but shouldn't I be getting more from the inuke in 3 ohms since I would get over 700 watts in 4 ohms?

Could be the inuke doesn't like 3 ohms? That would make sense since it's only rated for 4 ohms bridged. It never did shut down though, and I let most of the song play at those very loud volumes (speakers off).
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post #2 of 141 Old 02-11-2014, 08:45 PM
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carp,

just to clarify...

you tested 3 subs, 8 ohms each nominal (4 ohm coils in series), three drivers in parallel to the amp for a net of 2.67 ohms nominal, yes?

then the test was:

1. the set of three drivers to one channel of the cv5000

and

2. the set of three drivers to bridged inuke 3000dsp

yes?

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post #3 of 141 Old 02-11-2014, 09:07 PM
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Yes to the driver config assumption LTD02, but I'm a bit surprised the iNuke didn't outperform the Cerwin Vega? (Or shutdown trying)

At four ohms I think that big iron CV amp is rated at 1800 watts per channel. The iNuke has been tested to deliver around 2000 true watts bridged to four ohms.

The CV-5000 is rated at 2500 watts per channel at 2 ohm, and the iNuke isn't supposed to be run bridged at less than four ohm. Obviously it did it, but that ohm rating must be the delta? Perhaps the iNuke just can't handle the 2.7 ohm load bridged and still produce full power.

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post #4 of 141 Old 02-11-2014, 09:23 PM
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part of the missing link in your test is that the power supply in the cv is for 5000 watts, but it is only being called on to power one channel, while the inuke was using both channels.

it is common in amp testing to see power to one channel be X and power when driving both channels be 80-85% of X.

so if running both channels on the cv5000, power per channel would drop somewhat, but i can't say how much.
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post #5 of 141 Old 02-11-2014, 09:25 PM
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btw, just a random note, qsc has some sweet looking new amps:

http://qsc.com/products/Power_Amplifiers/PLD_Series/

probably not behringer level bang for the buck...

edit: $2400 lol. not quite behringer value. :-)

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post #6 of 141 Old 02-11-2014, 10:24 PM
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The CV5k is a stout amplifier and I'm glad that both of us own one. It's heavy but it's worth it for what it can do.

Carp, it's a boring answer but the simple fact is that you probably just need more amplifiers in general.

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post #7 of 141 Old 02-12-2014, 05:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LTD02 View Post

btw, just a random note, qsc has some sweet looking new amps:

http://qsc.com/products/Power_Amplifiers/PLD_Series/

probably not behringer level bang for the buck...

edit: $2400 lol. not quite behringer value. :-)

Wow, those babies are sweet! Amazing how far things have come in the last few years.

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post #8 of 141 Old 02-12-2014, 06:24 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LTD02 View Post

part of the missing link in your test is that the power supply in the cv is for 5000 watts, but it is only being called on to power one channel, while the inuke was using both channels.

it is common in amp testing to see power to one channel be X and power when driving both channels be 80-85% of X.

so if running both channels on the cv5000, power per channel would drop somewhat, but i can't say how much.




Hmm so a more fair test would be to hook up both of my inuke 3000dsp's, one for each set of 3 subs. Next crank it up until I get a clipping light and check to volume on the avr when clipping starts.

Then hook up the CV, 1 channel for each set of 3 subs and do the same thing.

Is that right?
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post #9 of 141 Old 02-12-2014, 08:17 AM
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Big reason why I don't believe in bridging lower watt amps.
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post #10 of 141 Old 02-12-2014, 09:10 AM
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Possible impact from the Class A/B vs class D differences?

I know a lot say it shouldn't matter but I'm not convinced.
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post #11 of 141 Old 02-12-2014, 09:20 AM
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What’s not mentioned is that some say a 2ohm load can sometimes sound harsh. Now I dunno if that’s because of the amp, the driver, or a combination of the both???

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post #12 of 141 Old 02-12-2014, 09:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by steve nn View Post

What’s not mentioned is that some say a 2ohm load can sometimes sound harsh. Now I dunno if that’s because of the amp, the driver, or a combination of the both???

That would only be the case if the amplifier was having lots of trouble running a 2ohm load.

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post #13 of 141 Old 02-12-2014, 09:59 AM
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Originally Posted by Scott Simonian View Post

That would only be the case if the amplifier was having lots of trouble running a 2ohm load.

+1

I ran my CE4000s at one ohm stereo and they worked/sounded flawlessly.

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post #14 of 141 Old 02-12-2014, 10:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott Simonian View Post

That would only be the case if the amplifier was having lots of trouble running a 2ohm load.

Yeah that’s a given but have you ever seen a guy post when it seems not to be the case? I have and have wondered if it’s a combination thing or what? Maybe it was just bias?

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post #15 of 141 Old 02-12-2014, 10:31 AM
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Yeah that’s a given but have you ever seen a guy post when it seems not to be the case? I have and have wondered if it’s a combination thing or what? Maybe it was just bias?

Well... of course it has to be a combination because the drivers are the load. The amplifier sees and has to react to that load. If it is beyond the capability of the amplifier device then it will underperform, fail, etc.

However, no, the drivers themselves will should not sould harsh but if the amplifier is having a tough time it may induce distortions that will be audible. In effect it would seem that the drivers are making bad sounds when in fact it's the amplifier. Happens all the time.

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post #16 of 141 Old 02-12-2014, 10:55 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by steve nn View Post

What’s not mentioned is that some say a 2ohm load can sometimes sound harsh. Now I dunno if that’s because of the amp, the driver, or a combination of the both???


For the past year I've used 8 subs - 4 per channel - on the CV for a 2 ohm load and I haven't heard any bad sounds at all unless the CV is clipping and then I hear a chirping type sound. I didn't hear any bad sounds with the bridged inuke on 3 subs for a 3 ohm load either.

I'm going to so some more testing this afternoon.
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post #17 of 141 Old 02-12-2014, 11:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by carp View Post

For the past year I've used 8 subs - 4 per channel - on the CV for a 2 ohm load and I haven't heard any bad sounds at all unless the CV is clipping and then I hear a chirping type sound. I didn't hear any bad sounds with the bridged inuke on 3 subs for a 3 ohm load either.

I'm going to so some more testing this afternoon.

Also, unless you are taking measurements you really don't know what the real load is either.

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post #18 of 141 Old 02-12-2014, 11:49 AM
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Speaking of which, what outlet/breaker combo are you using with your CV5k? In the OP you said it was rare to trip your breaker. I can trip mine if I want to with a 20amp dedicated line and I haven't even applied eq to my 4 sealed Dayton 18's.
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post #19 of 141 Old 02-12-2014, 12:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by carp View Post

For the past year I've used 8 subs - 4 per channel - on the CV for a 2 ohm load and I haven't heard any bad sounds at all unless the CV is clipping and then I hear a chirping type sound. I didn't hear any bad sounds with the bridged inuke on 3 subs for a 3 ohm load either.

I'm going to so some more testing this afternoon.

Good.. I think what applies to my situation is if not clipping the amp, I’ll not hear any difference. I have never had the need to run bridged but in the past I have noticed a few mention their golden ears could tell the difference even though they say they weren't clipping. In no way am I saying it’s the case, just a few past observations is all.

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post #20 of 141 Old 02-12-2014, 12:25 PM
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Quote:
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Good.. I think what applies to my situation is if not clipping the amp, I’ll not hear any difference. I have never had the need to run bridged but in the past I have noticed a few mention their golden ears could tell the difference even though they say they weren't clipping. In no way am I saying it’s the case, just a few past observations is all.

THD goes up as ohm goes down. Maybe that's what they they hear.
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post #21 of 141 Old 02-12-2014, 12:46 PM
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"Hmm so a more fair test would be to hook up both of my inuke 3000dsp's, one for each set of 3 subs. Next crank it up until I get a clipping light and check to volume on the avr when clipping starts.

Then hook up the CV, 1 channel for each set of 3 subs and do the same thing.

Is that right?"

that would seem to level the playing field as much as possible. also, be sure to check the equalization because a little peak here or there could throw the results off.

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post #22 of 141 Old 02-12-2014, 12:47 PM
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and for what it is worth, i wouldn't run that amp with that load. better might be to parallel the coils and put one driver on each channel of the 3000. then just buy as many 3000's as you need. :-)

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post #23 of 141 Old 02-12-2014, 03:34 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
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Speaking of which, what outlet/breaker combo are you using with your CV5k? In the OP you said it was rare to trip your breaker. I can trip mine if I want to with a 20amp dedicated line and I haven't even applied eq to my 4 sealed Dayton 18's.



Like you I'm using a 20 amp dedicated line. Are you also using the CV5000? I can trip mine to, but I do have a house curve with the minidsp and I really have to be abusing/clipping the crap out of the CV5K before the breaker trips. Could be because the SI's are less power hungry than the Dayton's?
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post #24 of 141 Old 02-12-2014, 04:01 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LTD02 View Post

"Hmm so a more fair test would be to hook up both of my inuke 3000dsp's, one for each set of 3 subs. Next crank it up until I get a clipping light and check to volume on the avr when clipping starts.

Then hook up the CV, 1 channel for each set of 3 subs and do the same thing.

Is that right?"

that would seem to level the playing field as much as possible. also, be sure to check the equalization because a little peak here or there could throw the results off.


Yep, I ran some sweeps with the omni to make sure they were set at the same levels.



Quote:
Originally Posted by LTD02 View Post

and for what it is worth, i wouldn't run that amp with that load. better might be to parallel the coils and put one driver on each channel of the 3000. then just buy as many 3000's as you need. :-)



Ok, so today when I ran the CV with both channels it clipped at .5 db's before the inuke (s) did on Bass I Love You.

I then ran the pod scene from WOW on the inukes until I got clipping and recorded the number. Next I tried Art of Flight. UH OH!!! Right at clipping suddenly no more sound. The inukes did not shut off because the sound from the next room was like an airplane was taking off. 10 ish seconds later the bass came back on - at lower volumes of course because I turned it way down.


So, no more testing needed. The CV has NEVER done that and the fans do not get louder when I crank it up so I'll be keeping the CV.

Too bad, I wanted to get the dynamic eq function from the inuke6000dsp and the increased effeciency.

So, yeah I agree with the bold part above John. smile.gif
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post #25 of 141 Old 02-12-2014, 04:03 PM - Thread Starter
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It will be interesting to see if the inuke audio also shuts off on the 2 rear subs at clipping on the Art of Flight Alaska scene. I hope not because I plan on running that way permanently.
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post #26 of 141 Old 02-12-2014, 04:27 PM
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Quote:
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Like you I'm using a 20 amp dedicated line. Are you also using the CV5000? I can trip mine to, but I do have a house curve with the minidsp and I really have to be abusing/clipping the crap out of the CV5K before the breaker trips. Could be because the SI's are less power hungry than the Dayton's?

I'm using the cv5k in 2ohm stereo and I'm pushing it but it's not clipping. The only time I throw the breaker is with Dance/techno/rap/bass type music. Usually showing out. However I can make it happen at will. I'd say I'm right at the clipping threashold but I've never seen the lights to know for sure.
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post #27 of 141 Old 02-12-2014, 05:19 PM
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efficiency, time for clones?

two 20amp breakers, 16 SI-18's.
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post #28 of 141 Old 02-12-2014, 06:18 PM
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efficiency, time for clones?

two 20amp breakers, 16 SI-18's.

A 30amp breaker and a new drop would be cheaper
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post #29 of 141 Old 02-12-2014, 06:22 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
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efficiency, time for clones?

two 20amp breakers, 16 SI-18's.


Oh yes, I've very familiar with Pop's setup smile.gif I was at his place a couple weeks or so ago. He was tripping breakers about as often as I do - which is to say 2 or 3 times total during a loud night of demo's.


Archaea posted a very cool video of our weekend up there, 4 rooms in 3 days. Pop's is the first part of the video. Great time! smile.gif


http://www.avsforum.com/t/1512849/january-18th-loudspeaker-gtg-results-thread/750#post_24336856
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post #30 of 141 Old 02-12-2014, 08:01 PM
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that's actually a very good test that you have conducted there.

nice job!

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